DeLay evidence weak?
by The Panda Man · 10/17/2005 2:13 pmOur good buddies at the Chronicle have a very interesting article on the latest twist in the DeLay case. It seems that the donor list central to the indictment of the Majority Leader does not exist. A court hearing brought out the development:
AUSTIN - Travis County prosecutors admitted Friday they lack physical proof of a list of Republican candidates that is at the heart of money-laundering indictments against U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay and two of his associates.
Without the actual paper, the case would hinge on the testimony of the former Republican National Committee official said to have received the list. DeLay “associate” Jim Ellis’ lawyer characterized the non-existence of the list as McCarthy-style tactics.
DeLay’s attorney, who was not at the court hearing, weighed in as well:
"That’s astonishing, astonishing that they would get a grand jury to indict and allege there is a list and then they have to admit in open court the first time they appear in open court that there is no list," DeGuerin said.
The plot thickens…
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in addition to that, ronnie earle did go after senator hutchinson and all 3 cases were thrown out. so, america should just take his word for it this time ?
it is quite disturbing how the national republican leaders are being dragged thru the mud on hearsay and circumstance.
if republican officials can cut spending by 06, they might just increase majorities as the people’s patience is wearing thin !
“The Evidence is Weak” ????? Heck, it looks to me as if the evidence is nonexistent!
You know, I’ve been saying for several years that if DeLay did something wrong, they should file charges, take him to court, and if found guilty, put him “under the jail”. This is the closest they’ve gotten, and all I’m hearing is “…now, where did I put that piece of paper?….”
– Ken
The evidence is fake, but accurate.
Ooops.. sorry. I was in my “Dan Rather bogus charges” mode.
I’m getting my “Ronnie Earle bogus charges” circuit fixed. It is still on the fritz after the Hutchison overload.
If there is no evidence then Delay will be cleared and he can go on to deal with the feds and Abramoff. If there is evidence he will go to court and will be cleared or convicted. Then he will go on to deal with the Feds. Why not let the system work its way through the charge ?
My money says he will be convicted. Maybe, maybe not.
I have always thought he was more likely to end up in Leavenworth than Huntsville. Anyway, the Plamegate investigation is much more entertaining, especially now that Fitzgerald seems to have flipped someone on Rove and Cheney.
Feagan and Argus,
You two really ought to see a doctor to get some stronger prescriptions. Your meds just aren’t quite letting you see reality yet.
What the Right tends to forget is that it wasn’t Ronnie Earle that indicted DeLay, it was at least nine citizens of Texas serving on the grand jury sitting in Travis County.
Let’s see what the criminal justice system has to say on the matter. I trust the people far more than I trust pundits (legal or political).
#7,
What a dumb statement! I’ll give you two guesses who conceived these charges and who shopped numerous grand juries until he got the verdict he wanted, and the first guess doesn’t count.
With a grand jury like # 7 you could indite Mother Teresa.
rj
Willie,
What the left tends to forget is that Ronnie Earle has a history of politically motivated indictments against enemies in both the republican and the democrat parties (see Hutchison and Morales for an example from each side).
What the left also forgets is that they are waining in power, and will soon be referred to in the same sentence along with Tories and Whigs. The democrat party will only be discussed in history classes, and most folks will miss the question. (”Name the party that claims to love America, but hates 95% of the people who live there.”)
What the left also tends to forget is that they keep supporting crooks and liars. One is known by the company one keeps, and a party is known by the candidates it selects.
Get rid of the crooked Clintons, the do-nothing Jackson-Lees, the racist Waters, and the corrupt Earles, and maybe - just MAYBE - you can elect a majority again, or at least stop the hemorrhaging you’re going through.
Wino,
Thanks! Excellent overview.
rj
rj-
It’s funny how the Right always champions “the people” except in those cases where “the people” make a decision that doesn’t fit their agenda. What ever happened to the “rule of law” mantra that you guys hoisted out (ad naseaum) concerning Clinton? Why doesn’t the same philosophy apply when the target is a fellow Republican? That’s hypocrisy of the worst kind.
P.S. Before you go labeling me as a pinko, liberal, etc…know that I was in favor of Clinton’s impeachment. The law is the law, no matter who stands before it.
I guess I have more faith in the commom man (or woman) than you seem to.
Wino are you serious. The left supports crooks and liars. You must be kidding. Bill Frist; “my stock is in a blind trust, I don’t even know if I have any medical related stock, much less stock in my families company”. “I sold my stock (Blind Trust?) to eliminate any question”.
Karl Rove, thru Scott McClellan; I had no involvment whatsoever in the outing of Valarie Plame. Now no comment. And four trips to the grand Jury.
Scooter Libby thru Scott Mclellan; I had no involvment whatsoever in the outing of Valarie Plame.
Shall I continue ? There are crooks and liars on both sides. Right now it seems “you” guys have the market sewn up though.
Asking your average group of Austin residents if they want to indict Tom Delay is like asking your average group of third graders if they want to have ice cream for dinner instead of kidney pie. Comments made on the radio by the foreman of the grand jury that issued the indictment made it clear that he had a beef with Delay before he ever stepped into the jury room and that he was positively gleeful over the opportunity to indict him. With jurors of that temperment, the knowledge that at least one jury refused to return an indictment, and a prosecutor known for politically motivated prosecutions based on faulty or non-existant evidence, we absoultely SHOULD question the validity of the indictment and the motivations of the man who brought it.
There are crooks and liars on both sides of the aisle. The list is too long to review, but I suggest some remedial history lessons might be in order. Seems as if our Republican brethren might be guilty of selective “recollection”.
WE throw out our trash.
YOU re-elect them.
Therein lies the difference, and your party’s demise.
Wino-
First of all, the Democrats are not my party, and while I agree that they are down at the moment (with no one to blame except themselves), they are far from being in the throes of a demise. What is occuring now is the normal, historical cycle that is the American political system. Republicans are up, Democrats down. However, that will not last for too long (if history is any guide-which I feel it always is).
Secondly, let’s see how you “trash” DeLay, Frist, Rove, et al when/if they are convicted. Then you’ll get a chance to put your philosophy into action. My guess is that their behavior, ethical lapses, crimes, etc…will be overlooked by the Republican faithful (just as the Democratic faithful did with Clinton).
I thought you guys were all about the “rule of law”? Why does it only apply to Democratic targets? Go back and read the Democratic comments about Ken Starr and compare them with the current attacks on Ronnie Earle. Looks like the same talking points are being used, with the only difference being the targets.
Ken Starr didn’t need to search for trash on Clinton, it was thrown at him at every turn. Ken Starr is an ethical man and was appointed the Special Prosecutor. Earle went after indictments on his own against a long list of politicians.
Willie, read # 15 again.
# 12,
Four trips to the grand jury and no indictments?
Speaks volumns. NO INDICTMENTS.
#11,
“pinko, liberal, etc…” your words.
“I guess I have more faith in the commom man (or woman) than you seem to.” Really?
Don’t pat yourself on the back too much. My opinion is that the right (conservatives) has not a need for a champion like Clinton who seems to be the standard by which anyone under suspicion is judged against.
rj
RJ, be careful about your speculation. Everyone suspects indictments are coming. Rove, Libby, Cheney who knows. But I would be very cautious if I were you on this one.
Ken Starr was a Party hack who ran his office the way my siev runs water thru pasta.
Wino, please tell me what trash have you and your party thrown out. Is Duke Cunningham “out” or “In”. How about Bill Frist ? How about Scott McClellan, no way around it he lied or was lied to. How about the Taft from Ohio ? is he “out” or “In”? Shall I continue ? So far I see no one thrown out.
Let us not forget that DeLay had Republicans on the House Ethics Committee who voted to censure him ousted and replaced with gentlemen who received campaign contributions from his PAC and would be more “sympathetic” to the Majority Leader.
rj- what say you about “the rule of law”? Should it not apply to Republicans? Please elaborate.
rj/Wino: Go back and read the Democratic comments about Ken Starr and compare them with the current attacks on Ronnie Earle. Looks like the same talking points are being used, with the only difference being the targets.
I think the justice system ought to decide whether or not DeLay is guilty. However, the problem I have is that it seems as if Earle’s indictment has holes in it at best, and is blatantly politically motivated at worst.
Crooks going after crooks - it’s all pretty pathetic…
If Earle’s indictment has holes in it, then let a jury decide it in court. DeLay will either be found guilty or not guilty. If it’s a weak indictment (without merit), then let the folks of Travis County sort that out next time Earle comes up for re- election. Isn’t that the way our criminal justice and political systems are supposed to work?
Earle brought bogas charges against KBH but was still reelected by the folks in Travis County.
Birds fo a feather
Sorry Birds of a feather
Willie,
The main difference between the rhetoric is that the comments about Earle are TRUE and the accusations about Starr were just more Clintonic blathering lies.
Democrats have been lying so long, they are starting to believe it themselves.
Another reason I’m glad I’m not a democrat.
Wino,
that always semms to be the case when people refuse to hold their own accountable like they do the other. I’ve met Ken Starr and he seemed like a fine gentleman, therefore when the Democrats started smearing him for his investigation of the Clinton’s, I knew that it was propaganda put out by the apologists of the Left. While I’ve never met Earle, I believe the same thing is happening to him by the Republican apologists because of his indictments of DeLay. The playbooks are too similar to be coincidence.
Hypocrisy is horrible, no matter who the bearer is. There is one standard for all…”the rule of law”. Apply it evenhandedly.
Wino you really need to get over Clinton. Your party spent over 50 million bucks. Starr spent years investigating every aspect of Clinton’s life. What did we learn he is not faithful to his wife. He has questionable taste in woman. Same can be said of the former republican mayor of New York, the former republican Congressman from LA, the former speaker of the house. Now who have you held accountable in your party ? You said you throw the trash out. Who have you thrown out ?
#22 - You must have missed the first statement in my posting:
So I do agree that DeLay should get his day in court and this will get sorted out. However, if Earle’s case turns out to be particularly weak (and there appear to be signs that this is the case) then who is going to hold Earle accountable for the waste of everyone’s time and taxpayer $$$?
#28 jimb:
The people of Travis County will determine Earle’s accoutability come next election (as it should be). That’s the American way.