With all the media weeping and gnashing of teeth over the 2000th combat death in Iraq and the 1000th execution since capital punishment was reinstated in the US, another milestone was recently crossed that did not get as much coverage: Average weekday circulation at U.S. newspapers fell 2.6 percent.
Texas’ leading newspaper in terms of daily circulation, the Houston Chronicle, experienced a 6.01% decrease (from 555,291 to 521,419) in daily readership for a 6 month period ending Sept. 30, 2005 compared to the comparable period a year ago. Can we expect an in-depth expose’ on the 33872 lost readers?
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I heard a statistic yesterday, but do not recall the precise number, that more Americans were murdered in the U.S. this year than the total number of soldiers killed in Iraq since the U.S.-lead war in Iraq began.
There would likely be a much higher total in the U.S. had not an “Act of God” destroyed New Orleans.
The fall in newspaper circulation has MUCH more to do with the advent and increased usage of electronic media than it does any perceived bias by readers who then flee the dailys in search of more “balanced” coverage. The drop is industry-wide, suggesting that the “old ways” of getting news is shifting towards the electronic. This was inevitable and has more to do with technology than any perceived partisan bias.
IMHO
Willie
Actually the papers have been falling off for the past 10 years because of content. The electronic media has only sped up the process. This is a chicken and egg deal here.
Willie hit the nail on the head and I am a perfect example. I no longer subscribe to the Chronicle because of erratic delivery service and not content. It is still the home page on my browser and is my most frequently visited web site. I also dropped my subscription to the Atlantic Monthly, but read it on the web every month also.
Comment Deleted
By Squawkbox
Moderator
Nice try at flaming and trolling mixed with a sash of personal attack.
The content was old and unbalanced. At least they are saving trees with the drop in circulation.
ditto on that gadboy
Wait a minute Squawk,
Don’t you think that at least the association with war dead in inappropriate?
Wil
#8
NWOR
#5 and #8 - C’mon, it’s sarcasm, mixed with irony. He’s suggesting that the unbalanced war reporting in newspapers (concentrating on the negative, glossing over the positive developments) based on the idea that ‘if it bleeds, it leads’ is turning off the readers and hurting subscription levels.
Looks like the Comical was the 4th. biggest loser.
That’s not what he is saying at all, jimb. He is so eager to attack the msm, he is using anything to make his point. He should be ashamed and Squawk just deleted my post because there was no way to defend Tommy’s statement.
Very true some of the loss of subscribers is because of the internet, but also have to admit allot of it is due to the liberal bias and twisting of the facts and out right lies in so many of their stories. We know this as fact because of all of the people including myself, who have stated here at LST that they have dropped the Chronicle because of this bias.
No gadboy
I deleted your statement for the reasons I noted.
#9 OIC PMFJI
I stand my ground Squawbox. Comments are made on this forum all the time about Liberals, but we don’t moderate. One thing I have noticed about all my conservative friends is that they are notoriously thin-skinned and do not like to be challenged. That was a reprehensible post by Texas Tommy and you should deal with him accordingly. I disagree with 90 percent of the posts on here, but this is the first one that I think has crossed a line.
gadboy
I have no problem with your challenging the premise of a story or the posts of other participants. You and I have had some informative exchanges. I have no editorial control of the stories posted by the bloggers here. I would direct you to lsteditors@gmail.com if you find TexasTommy’s post offensive.
When I see what I perceive as a personal attack rather than addressing the content then I will delete the comment. It is nothing personal with me and I do not care which side of the aisle that peron falls on. I’m just trying to keep things civil. I’m sure that you can go through eveypost and find where I have missed some but I don’t sit on this site all day either.
BTW I agree there are some that do take umbrage to dissenting replies to their posts.
Whether I agree with the post or not, I would actually tend to agree with the liberal voices here (Wil and Gadboy). A comparison between lost readership for a newspaper and dead soldiers really is not in the best of taste.
No, because it’s not as serious as 2000 dead soldiers, regardless of your political stance.
It’s funny though, conservatives generally think the thin skinned attribute applies more to liberals. Maybe both groups are right. Maybe neither is right. It would seem to be human nature to defend your own viewpoint, and that often seems to be misinterpreted as “thin-skinned”.
That said, the reasons for lost readership are different for different people. I believe that both biased writing and electronic media are legitimate causes. Either way, print is losing ground and I’m sure it applies to conservative print media as well as liberal. Good riddance as far as I’m concerned. Who wants a stack of old newspapers or magazines laying around?
Mike Martin
I can pick out real quickly the people in the forum that get red faced because their opinion or source was not taken as gospel. I learned a long time ago not to take anything personally. I sleep better at night because of it.
Yeah, I guess there are a few in every crowd. Liberal (not in the political sense) use of profanity and personal attacks are pretty good clues.
Why can’t we all just get along?
/channelling Rodney King
Maybe we all just need a coupla’ 40’s to get us good and loose.
Mike Martin
“Maybe we all just need a coupla’ 40’s to get us good and loose.”
Yeah that’s the ticket. In fact that is rule #13 of the Woo-Woo credo.
Drink heavily while posting.
To boycott stores for displaying Happy Holidays sign instead of Merry Xmas/Happy Xmas is irrational and childish in the least.
We have been trying to impose democracy and freedom on a sovereign nation for 2 years or so, how about giving stores the freedom to express themselves.What about their right to freedom of expression? If they wish you a happy holiday you can always respond with a merry Xmas. This way nobodys’ feelings are bruised.
Next you will be labelling these stores as unchristian and unpatriotic which seems to be fashionable these days.
Grow up the lot of you! You are not exactly setting good examples for your children with all this tanturum.
gadboy
One more small note. You said you disagree with 90% of what is posted here. Ummmm man this is a conservative blog.
Squawbox-I guess we’re just 2 old truck drivers who ended up on opposite sides of the fence.
I have never subscribed to the Chron. I did subscribe to the Post before it was taken over by the Chron. Afterward, The Chron substituted their rag and I cancelled my subscription. This was well before the Internet was going. The Chron was liberal then and is liberal now. RIP Chron.
I had acquaintances working for the Post who had to move to other cities to find jobs when they were terminated, with almost no severance pay. Chron. took a real subscription hit then and has never increased subscriptions since (even counting those “free” ones in your driveway).
My neighbor accross the street (a Chron subscriber could never figure out why he was getting all these extra coppies, Hee Hee Hee).
No Chron. Internet Krap either.
I hadn’t read any of these posts before I read Tommy’s comments, and I immediately thought they were inappropriate. As if it’s wrong for the media to be “weeping” and “gnashing its teeth”. C’mon, I don’t care how it’s “spun”, it was improper.
I guess some Libbies are just not quite WITH-IT enough to get what the whole Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday subject is about and why it is going on in the first place. That’s why Libbies make me laugh so much. Ha Ha Hee Hee…
#22 Liberals seem to believe that boycotting wal-mart because they aren’t using ‘merry christmas’ is suppressing their free speech and making us less free as a nation. Nothing could be further from the truth. Actually, what you suggest is limiting to the freedom of the individuals who have every right to boycott wal-mart for any random reason you wish, whether or not you agree that it is proper.
gadboy
#24
You’re an “old” trucker too!!!!! Dude we got to get together and swap tales. I’d bet that even with the separation in politics we’d get along fine.
#21 Squawk,
Heh heh.
This from the FAQ of LGF:
I wonder if that’s like being too drunk to fish.
“If you have ever been too drunk to fish, you may be a redneck.”
#18
“That said, the reasons for lost readership are different”
I let subscription go, not becuase of bias either way,but for the excessive mindless content. Just look at the front page of the early Sunday editions. Just entertainment drivel. The end of my subsription happened when I my carrier started placing the sports section over the front page so when I unrolled the paper in the morning, I saw sports headlines first. Like that is so important.
Sports and Entertainment… ooooh, what a rush for the masses.
#32,
I’ve had internet access without interruption since 1994. In that period of time I’ve subscribed to no newspaper. It always seemed to me that I haven’t missed any news in the newspaper that I didn’t have equal or greater acces to through the internet or television. If there was a particular subject that interested me, I’d pick up a book. So I guess they really can’t count me as a lost subscription, I didn’t have one to begin with. I wonder how many other unique reasons there are for not taking the paper.
Dear Mike, Gadboy, Wil, Jimb and crew, thanks for reading LST. And Squakbox, thanks for your diligent moderation of comments.
I think many of the commenters here are missing the forest for the trees in my post. The point is that while the MSM is cooking up phony “milestones” to serve an anti-war or anti-death penalty narrative, their coverage largely ignores the real story of their lost readership. This readership is being lost, in part, because of their biased coverage.
Perhaps I should have been more clear in my post, but to conclude from the content that I find a moral equivalence between war casualties and decreased newspaper readership presupposes a deep malice on my part towards military personnel. To reach this conclusion requires a leap of logic that is not supported by the text. In case anyone is unclear about my admiration for and appreciation of our service men and women, click here and here.
Jimb’s comment in # 10 is spot on.
TexasTommy,
I have no doubt you are a staunch supporter of our military, as am I. If you’ve read my posts here on LST that will be quite evident to you. Further, I would not argue with you for a second that papers like the Chronicle have lost readership due to their liberal bias. I can just easily see how the juxtaposition of death tolls due to war or capital punishment next to lost newspaper subscriptions might rankle a few folks. One is such a completely trivial matter in comparison to the others.
For me (from my conservative point of view) I can see the liberal point of view on this one. Our country is fighting a war they don’t agree with, and although I know you didn’t intend to imply moral equivalence, I can see how it could be interpreted that way.
I’m not innocent in that regard either. I’ve stirred the pot (so to speak) on occasion without really meaning to. I always try to respect others even in my arguments with them. I don’t always come across that way despite my best efforts. Thanks for addressing our concerns, and I do appreciate your contributions here.
As for newspapers and me? I will let the words of one greater than I speak for me.
I do not take a single newspaper, nor read one a month, and I feel myself infinitely the happier for it. Thomas Jefferson
and
The advertisement is the most truthful part of a newspaper. Thomas Jefferson
and
The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
Thomas Jefferson
nuff said
Wil Barnes
RE: #8 #9 & #15
Your question had no relevance as to why I entered this exchange in the first place. My exchange was with gadboy and I intended it to stay that way out of respect for him. If you have any further questions to my intent, I would ask you to read my posts #17 and #23.
Squawbox-I wasn’t over the road though. I was in town hauling beer, but drove some good size rigs, though.
gadboy
That’s OK. A trucker is a trucker. I pushed Pepsi and Coors for a short time at differnet times. OOOBIE DOOBIE that is a tough business. The work was good but I wasn’t good for the work.
It’s definitely a young mans game. That’s why I got out of it.
Mike’s question (suitable for fisking, fish-wrapping, or any other purpose you deem fit):
Is the MSM really more biased today than they were previously… or are we just now more aware of it due to the internet and faster/better availability of information through alternative sources?
I can see bias in the media, but I’m not sure it wasn’t really there all along. The perspective of someone who was old enough in the sixties to have a good recollection of the news coverage in that period would be valuable.
Who did you work for when you pushed Coors?
#41 Mike Martin
The bias used to be against all things governmental and military (ever since the “guns and butter” commentary, I think).
It is just since about 1970 that the bias started leaning AGAINST the conservatives (around Watergate time). They hated Goldwater, but they also hated Johnson. I don’t mind bias against an institution so much as I mind the bias FOR an ideology (liberalism, and therefore gimmecrats).
I started reading newspapers front-to-back as a child in the 1960’s (1965-ish), and stopped in about 1980 when Reagan was running for office.
This was the period when the news crossed the line from “attack anyone to get a headline, just make sure it is factual, and give the other side a chance to reply” to their present “attack the conservatives, and report on the libs’ transgressions only when necessary. Bury the libs’ party affiliation or background at the end of the story.”
At least, this is my impression and recollection of how and when this present decline in objectivity started started. The Viet Nam war had a lot to do with it, I think, and TV news becoming the draw with their anti-war and “cover those poor oppressed protesters favorably” stories. Newspapers saw Dan the Red getting good reviews and jumped on the band-(antiwar)-wagon. They never even attempted to see where that particular, biased wagon was headed. The falling circulation numbers and apparent inability of the Chron to see their own bias shows they still can’t see that they’re headed toward “suitable-for-fish-wrap-only” status.
I guess it was the internet that made me stop in 1980, right, Willie and gad? Ol’ Algore must’ve sent me one of those preview, paper-versions of his invention for beta testing.
gadboy
Coors of the Woods in the Woodlands. A Heilman company out of Houston. Did that shortly after I separated form the service back in the early 80s. I worked for Pepsi out Conroe and blew out my back there. Not real bad but enough to know I did not belong on the hand truck gang any longer. Like I said good work but I was not good for it.
gadboy
Sorry that was Hillmans not Heilman.
“The perspective of someone who was old enough in the sixties to have a good recollection of the news coverage in that period would be valuable.”
Sarge drags himself from his sickbed to answer the call for History Education among those less fortunate to be alive at the same time as he:
In the ’60s there were only three networks, ABC, CBS, and NBC..and ABC was relatively new. At first news broadcasts on TV were only 15 minutes long.
Most of the “anchors” were veterans of news reporting during WW2, Cronkite, Murrow, Severide, Huntley, etc. It can certainly be argued that these people built their careers giving biased news reporting favorable to the government given that they along with Hollywood and the book publishing industry were integrated as part of a larger, and brilliantly executed, propaganda campaign.
It can also be argued that, during the war, those reporters from news agencies and papers who held editorial bias against the government did not recieve credentials as swiflty, nor were assigned to more prominent campaigns and theaters than were those from agencies more freindly to the Administration.
News personalities rose to prominence by being in the right place at the right time to give breathless radio broadcasts, or deathless prose, from those theaters and campaigns that were most important to most citizens in WW2. Cronkite reported from the Normandy beaches because he is with CBS, but the guy from a conservative newspaper or local station gets sent to the Aluetians to report on the formation of ice floes in Dutch Harbor. They became celebrities themselves, and were hired by the new medium as a way of attracting viewers. Therefore, those giving us the news in the 60’s did so from a very decicedly Liberal, Democrat standpoint because their careers were advanced by a Liberal Democrat Administration.
Many of us knew that we wer getting biased news, but were frustrated with the lack of sources reporting from a slightly different viewpoint. Things started to change with CNN, but it was not until the formation of FOX News that John Doe was able to make a comparison for himself and begin to make his chioces for news sources based on the comparison.
Now of course, we have those who enjoyed the monopoly of viewpoint which they enjoyed for 50 years demonizing those who bring fresh interesting news from a different viewpoint.
And John Doe is able to make his choice. Liberal News papers are dying breed, and since most newspapers in this country are Liberal (90% of all reporters describe themselves as such), they are bringing all newspapers down with them.
If it were not “bias backlash” that was bringing these numbers down, we would not see the concurrent decline in numbers for the “big 3″ TV/radio networks coupled with a steady increase for Fox News…especially once you consider that poeple are making the choice to pay for one news source and are abandoning the ones they get for free.
Factor in, also, the phenomenal succes of “conservative” talk radio (especially when compared to the “Liberal” alternative out there, and the fact that a good deal of Conservative literature is out there, and you see what viewpoint the American People prefer.
Golly;
Put my poost with Wino’s and you’ll get a pretty good picture. The broadcasters and managers of the ’60’s set thestage for those coming on in the ’70s, and I agree with Wino in that this is where we saw a very pronounced “turn to the left” in news reporting…but it was there in the ’60s as well.
Geez, I can’t believe how old everyone else is on this forum. Reading papers back in the 60’s? I’m only 38. How old are people on this forum? My grandfather thinks a VCR is high technology and it scares the heck out of him. I finally gave him one of my old ones so he could watch some movies, but he refuses to go to Blockbuster. $4 to rent a movie?? No way,! he says. So, my point is that it’s pretty good that all of the older guys on here are internet savvy. My grandfather doesn’t even know what the internet is. My grandmother saw my laptop and said “Oh, you have a little TV!”
My question for the liberals on here, who I assume are in their 60’s as well… How in the world can you be an older person with a family and a house, and still be a liberal? How? Do you like higher taxes? How does anyone stay a liberal after age 30?
I forget where I heard it but it’s true:
“All you need to beat a Liberal is a good memory.”
I would add to that: “..and a decent History Education.”
I received one back in the day when “history” was still taught, but in the process of being changed to “social studies” (the combination of Geography and History). This I think is one of the biggest Educational Crimes committeed by the Left in the past 50 years. History requires critical thinking, reading, and writing to be taught and learned well.
cameraguy
#48
Whoa dude you just made it over the age limit to post. One question though. Are you at least this tall to ride this ride?
http://gamma.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Many%20good%20men:%20Listening%20to%20NH’s%20Marines&articleId=004c56c3-7cf5-4ba1-8160-2b1e1344aa08
Speaking of “liberal vs conservative” newspapers…
I’d be interested in findingout how the Union Leader did in that survey. The article on mentions the “top 20″ newspapers. How did smaller papers with a conservative slant do?
http://gamma.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Gun%20crime%20in%20Boston?%20Just%20blame%20northern%20New%20England&articleId=00cf5d5f-907e-4788-a01a-cfbb4c527b01
Money quote:
“Or, to put it another way, they have traced guns to New Hampshire and Vermont, where firearms laws are less strict and citizens have an easier time obtaining guns for self-defense. If our firearms laws are the cause of high gun crime, then why is most of the crime in Boston?”
Sarge retreats to his sickbed…beaten by disease, but not by Liberals, who have become shy….
Get well soon Sarge. Give the Little Colonel a hug and go rest. DON”T GIVE HER YOUR BUG though.
Thanks for the responses from you guys (old and young alike). I’m a relatively young 38 years old myself, Cameraguy. Does that make us neocons or just people who don’t agree with liberals?
Sarge,
The Flu?
Mike Martin
As your concerned moderator, I must refer you to my post #50. We do have rules to abide by here.
I’m not sure what that makes us in the mind of a liberal because I’ve never been able to figure out the liberal mind. Who knows what makes them tick? Who knows what makes a friend of mine with 2 kids, a house, and a small business a flaming liberal? It doesn’t make sense. He’s virtually taxed out of existence with his small business, his property taxes are punitive with his house, and his kids go to a school that is like a war zone. Yet he claims to be a liberal. WTF??
Maybe liberals are just dumb.
Squawky,
Well, I’m no towering giant, but I’m a little bit taller than this guy.
Squawk - I am only 35 - I could get into a lot about how much technology has changed since 1970. Do I make the age cut-off?
jimd
Well since I am your BENEVOLENT moderator here I am at liberty to make exceptions when deemed appropriate, yeah i guess so.
Mike Martin
Please tell me you wear cowboy boots with heels.
I promise I meet the height requirements…
Yup, as a neoTexan (as of 1984) I felt it necessary to buy a pair of Tony Llamas to fit in with the locals, not to mention “boosting” my confidence. Anyway, my mom has signed a permission slip for the ride just in case:
Mike has my permission to post on LST.
-Martin’s Mother
Mike Martin
#63
Your Mom should be sainted. That was too close. I’d hate to have lost ya.
And besides ya’ll, I’m more worried about yet another milestone that will happen this year. I fear there will not be enough coverage of grief for David Carr’s 200th sack in four years of quarter backing for the Texans.
Yes this is an open invitation to partake in your portion of moderator flambe’.
Tommy, no matter what, you’re still wrong. Lost readership has everything to do with the rise of the Internet and little if nothing to do with MSM bias.
You guys are reaching. That’s a sign of desperation.
And you wonder why I shake my head.
Dear Headshaker,
Thanks for reading LST.
I agree with you about the new media technologies superceding the old. However, I hold that the bias is also a factor driving new consumers to the new media. The content available on cable news, the net, and blogs is fresher and more diverse array of views and content that also makes it attractive. To see what I mean, watch PBS new shows sometime, then compare to FoxNews, CNBC, and the more professional blogs. You’ll see a world of difference in the use of media as well as content.
Tommy, now there’s something I agree with. Did you go out last nite? LOL you’re views are becoming much clearer and make more sense as the day goes on! LOL!
Thanks.
HS
TexasTommy
the more professional blogs
You, you….you mean we are not more professional?
/sadly closes browser and walks away.
I count 8 out of the last 69 posts were from Gadboy, and he stopped at #42. That is nearly 12% (or 19% 0f the first 42 posts); therefore, when he suggests that he disagrees with 90% of the posts…well, what can one say about that with out inciting disagreement.
Sarge awakes from an anit-histamine induced torpor and sits at the keyboard, silently dripping one of the more disgusting bodily fluids…..
My experience here on LST is to alow thenm to talk, then ask a pointed question to define or defend the postion they have thus taken.
I’m still waiting for gadboy to explain to me how he intends for us to “control the Isrealies” so they don’t start slinging nukes around to defend themselves from genocide.
I find the hubris of the Left puzzling. They expres confidence in this next election, and events may prove this true ub the short term, politics being what it is, but let me reflect some on the passings of the time I have been affot on the planet.
1. Today, polticiaons, Left and Right, Democrat and Republican, seem to be falling over one another to show just how much the “freind of the soldier” they are or have become. This is quite a change for Democrats, and the Left in general, many of whom came to power during a time when spitting on soldiers and calling them baby killers was the norm.
2. Not even Chuckie Schumer utters a breath in support of gun control, once one of the cornerposts of Leftist ideology in this country.
3. New spending and expansion of programs for the elderly notwithstanding, we have moved far away from the “nanny society” once proposed during the “War On Poverty.”
4. Even on abortion, the handwriting is clear on the wall….Alito will win in a walk, with the only resistance being that which will mollify only the most stringent “ro Coice” loonies.
5. The bias of the MSM has beene exposed, and mayeven be on the wane. “Rathergate” went many miles in exposing the kind of perfidy that went on in the 60s and 70s.
6. The most popular President of the last 50 years is a REpublican, and a stauch conservative at that.
No wonder we here so much screeching and clmoring from the. The no longer enjoy thier monopoly in the media, and ideas expressed by thier constiuent groups become exposed as being wildly unpopular with the People.
Squakbox says:
“You, you….you mean we are not more professional?”
Of course, LST is in the elite upper echelon of all professional blogs. That goes without saying!
1)Let’s look at the last 50 years and tell me what Kennedy, Johnson,Carter and Clinton did to show you they were not friends of the military. If we must be realistic Ronald Reagan was one of the biggest enemy the American soldier ever had. All of the problems we were having in the 80’s with Sarge-soldiers having to go on Welfare to support their familes and the substandard housing conditions on Military bases were a direct result of Military spending policies during the Reagan era. We spent so much money on ighter planes and submarines and surface ships which we really didn’t need that we had to take the money from other areas such as housing, pay and even ammunition budgets. The morale problems that conservatives wanted to blame on Clinton actually started then. You say that conservatives are moving us away from a nanny society and this is a farce. “No Child Left Behind” is a huge intrusion into what should be a state to state matter. The 911 victims compensation fund was nothing but a blatant entitlemnent program. The new prescription drug program is one also. I’m just wondering where the conservatives are that you describe Sarge. They’re not running the country.
Squawk-I worked at the Hillman branch in Houston for a while.
TexasTommy
Oh good now I feel better.
gadboy
#75
I’m guessing you sold Schlitz, Lone Star, Old Milwaukee and other fine beverages from around the world. Carried up to 40 packages from 12packs to 40oz and whatever in between on your truck and never had enough room for the best sellers. Ah yes I remember them days well.
Gadboy,
#74
Kennedy likely is the only Democrat President you mentioned who did not abuse the military.
Johnson screwed up Viet Nam, yet his defense contractor supporters (ie., Bell Helicopter, et al) sure got rich while the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines suffered following orders.
Carter starved the soldiers overseas, and virtually disarmed them.
Clinton dodged the draft, loathed the military, and dishonored the office of the President.
President Reagan brought home the American captives held by the Iranians, reestablished a 600-ship navy, brought the Soviet Union to thier knees with his “Peace through Strength” initiatives such as the SDI. The military regained it’s respect thoughout the world.
The Leftist-biased media tries to rewrite history, but we know the truth.
Headshaker,
Read my post 25, 26. ( He Probably beddy bye by now)>
The main reason I will not pay the Chron a dime is because of their liberal slant. They have been liberal since before the ’60’s. My Dad, God rest his soul, told me so before then, and I have confirmed that view since..
Age wise, I am 61. Yes, a lot of folks who are in their 50’s and 60’s are conservative, because they have had time to make choices given all of the facts.
My starting point many years ago was apolitical. I did not register, did not vote, and could have cared less who was President. It just was not on my radar screen. I just never thought about it.
My dad was an active conservative and Republican and was a volunteer election judge at voting sites.
HA! He voted in the Dem primaries just to get the least liberal person on the ballot.
When I started college at Texas Tech in 1963, LBJ and VietNam were not really important. I figured that a few deferments would get me past that. Not so. War dragged on.
Well damn…In Late 1967 or early 1968, I got my draft notice. Not good. I really started to take notice of politics after that. I was not anti-war or anti-RVN . I decided that if I was going to do my duty in service, it would be USAF. Turned out to be a good choice.
When I was at Da Nang, Friends sent me the front page Chron and NYT headlines, and some TV tapes. All negative, and most were factually challenged. We had daily briefings there that were sometimes classified, but were leaked to the alphabet soups in some way. They never reported any positive outcome in any action. I came to hate those non journalists. They also turned facts into absolute fiction.
The above is why I quit the MSM then and now rely on my LST researchers and other Bloggers. Our clan doesn’t even know if the TV still works since the last Hurricane.
To Y’all and Texas Tommy, TTFN.
77-Carried many a case of 40 oz. Bull in my day. Wish I had one now.
I have a question regarding the folks who work 12-hour days every Saturday and Sunday selling the Chronicle at intersections and stores. Do they get paid by the number of papers they sell, or is it an hourly job, or a combonation of both? I am conflicted, because I’d like to support them in their efforts to earn an honest living, but I don’t want to support the Chronicle in any way. So I usually just give them a buck or two and tell them to keep the paper. Is that really the best thing to do?
81 Yup, give em a couple bucs. Buy a paper
Unless you have a:
1 puppy
2 bird
3 painting project
4 craving for Sunday comics
5 Insert other use here for worthless rag
Well, TTFN for sure now.
Gaddy;
Why do you always answer my posts when you know I’m not around?
In addition to what has been said before:
Regan gave Viet Nam Veterans the Ticker Tape Parade denied them by Leftos.
Carter pardoned those who skipped to Canada
Clinton reduced the size of the Army by 5 Infantry Divisions and two Armored…not to mention scads of ships and planes.
I love the way Jackie Murtha says he wants to run out of Iraq because the Army is broken and defeated, but proposes not one dime to fix or upgrade. His answer, like all of the Democrats in my memory:
Screw the soldiers, they’ll vote Republican anyway.
OK…I’m sick and going back to bed again.
How am I supposed to know when you are and aren’t around?
Incredible. A majority of bloggers on this topic are attempting to diminish the significance of the deaths of over two thousand American men and women who were sent to war for a lie. Thankfully, all of the polls indicate that your views are no longer in the mainstream. You’re being pushed to the neocon lunatic fringe, there to twist slowly, slowly in the wind…
Another chewtoy for sarge and the boys
g-boy - You’re a lib. Don’t you know everything?
Airborne - …..for a lie? Ha! That’s a riot. Keep playing that broken record and see how far it gets you in the next elections.
Wouldn’t it be great if the libs in this country could get behind the soldiers instead of using them a political tools? 1998, 1999, 2000!, 2001….. that’s all they care about. Getting the number as high as they can and then celebrating it. And you know that’s what you are doing. You’re celebrating. You KNOW you get excited when you hear another report of killed soldiers. You know it turns you on because you get to bash Bush again. That’s all you libs care about.
The more dead American soldiers the happier you are. You know it’s true.
What are you doing to get behind the troops, Cameraguy? Putting a ribbon on your car? alling Rush Limbaugh and disparaging libs? We are involved in a war we didn’t need to fight and have no idea how to end. Seems to me people like you are using the troops to make a political point and don’t care how many die. If you REALLY supported our troops you would be pressuring the government to bring them home.
#89 gadBOY. I find your post patently absurd.
We are in Iraq due to saddam’s refusal to abide by the UN resolutions and his attacks on our planes and his financing of terrorists. Everyone and their dog “KNEW” he had WMD’s. Right now, we don’t know if his own people were lying to him and the world about his WMD’s, or if those WMD’s made their way to Syria.
We know when we will leave Iraq. We know how the war on Iraq ended and how the mop-up will end. As Iraq acquires the ability to fight the terrorist within their borders, we will reduce our forces. In fact, VP Cheney has already stated that our forcess will be reduced from around 150,000 to around 120,000 after the January elections in Iraq. He stated this before Thanksgiving. Shortly after, the buffoon Murtha started whining about troop withdrawl now. When the 30,000 troops are withdrawn, we will hear the liberals all whining that Bush is following their suggestions, just not fast enough.
Why are you left wingers INTENT on trying to lose this war that we are winning? Why do you hate the fact that Iraq is being liberated and is actually having real elections, instead of their fake elections of the past? Why do you want this war to end the same as ‘Nam? Is your hatred of Bush so intense that you are willing to harm our Nation to defeat Bush?
I just don’t understand the mentality or the “thought” process you people exhibit.
Please tell me how our nation would have been harmed had we not invaded Iraq? If you were realistic, you would admit the money we are spending in Iraq could be better spent to protect us from terrorism. If we hadn’t committed all these troops to Iraq,we could have sent more to Afghanistan and we may have captured Bin Laden by now.
I love this website. It’s a gathering place for every looney who ever had a wet dream about David Koresh being chased by black helicopters. If it wasn’t for the neocon coup that hijacked the Republican Party a decade ago, you heroes would still be nosing around the survivalist and neonazi web sites, learning new verses to Horst Wessel. Thanks for the humor.
Airborne,
I hereby invoke Godwin’s Law on Airborne. It usually takes a bit of argument before that one comes up. Too easy. Thanks for the cakewalk.
Oops… messed up the link but the end result is the same. Here’s the real deal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law
Nice try, Mike. Wikipedia reported “no link”. Making up new laws is a fun way to break old ones, ain’t it? You guys are a hoot.
Nice try at the nice try. Don’t know what happened with Wikipedia, but one of these is bound to work:
http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/g/GodwinsLaw.html
http://cbbrowne.com/info/godwin.html
http://www.science.uva.nl/~mes/jargon/g/godwinslaw.html
http://www.raisingkaine.com/1001
How long have you been surfing, Airborne?
***SIRENS BLARE***
As a duly authorized Godwin’s Law Enforcement Agent, I find that the law has been violated.
Prepare to be judged.
Buh-bye, Airborne.
***SIRENS FADE OFF INTO THE DISTANCE***
Well, maybe he’s gone, so it won’t do any good, but perhaps gadboy can learn something from my comments. ANOTHER reference to Nazi’s?? That is so funny! Gadboy, please tell me, as you may be representative of the liberals on here, why liberals continually pull out the Nazi card. Nazi’s were Socialists! Just because Nazi’s were mean, and you think Republican’s are mean, doesn’t mean they are the same thing!
Both of my grandfathers fought the Nazi’s. Why in the world would I be a Nazi? Just because I want to keep some of my money for myself, rather than have the federal government take over 50% of it to give to people like the ones that were in New Orleans?
How obvious can it be that liberals have no argument that they whip out the Nazi card at every opportunity. Extrememly lame.
98-Why are you directing that to me? I have never called anyone a Nazi.