Monday Open Comments Thread
by David Benzion · 02/20/2006 6:48 amHappy Monday.
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Ha HO!
shoot……i been monitoring this for the last half hour…:(
first looser again
how was your bday sarge?
beach_bum
This is not a good sign when we are already threatening to cut-off aid to this new “democracy”:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4731670.stm
And has OBL ever said anything good about Saddam? Have any of those involved in the theological jihad against the west ever called for his release?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11452123/
“The jihad is continuing with strength, for Allah be all the credit, despite all the barbarity, the repressive steps taken by the American Army and its agents, to the extent that there is no longer any mentionable difference between this criminality and the criminality of Saddam.”
OK guys;
Research this:
Border Integrity Act of 1995, H.R. 1224, 104th Cong., 1st Sess.
It was a Bill proposed in Congress in 1995 to amend Posse Comitatus to allow the use of troops on the Border. It did not pass……
Find out who, how, and why it did not.
BTW…failure of it;s passge indicates that Congress recognizes that the Military cannot be used on the border without it’s passage of a Law…..
I’m not discussing the border today.
Today is President’s Day. If someone can find mention of it on any major media homepage, I’d be shocked.
You wonder why I shake my head.
We live in a bizzarro country. Mexico is on the verge of reclaiming the US without firing a shot. Iran is on the verge of having Nukes and threatening to wipe out Israel and the USA. China is building a massive army and nukes to match the USA. Venezuela is posturing for a fight and hooking up with Iran and Cuber. While this happends we:
Ass kiss Mexico and welcome the invasioners with free stuff.
Buy oil and support Irans economy and military build up.
Buy everything from China,help them build their military by our presidents selling them technology and reduce our manufacturing capacity at the same time.
Buy oil from Venezuela supplying them with the funds they need to help Iran and Cuber wipe the US out.
And last but not least. We are at war with the Arabs and Islam and we pay them to run the security for our largest ports.
Somebody wake me an tell me its not true.
#6 gregg - it certainly is Bizarro World. But it’s not the President’s fault. His hands are being tied by Congress (the Republican Congress).
Gentlemen, gentlemen,
Please remember that no matter what the world may threaten us with this president will find the testicular assets to wreak havoc upon the country that actually attacks the US. Why don’t they, they still look around and see Afghanastan and Iraq. Idiots and bums will always want to rule contries and the world, but they don’t usually jeapordize their position by kicking the biggest and baddest kid in the shin.
Here ya go headshaker:
http://www.timeforkids.com/TFK/news/story/0,6260,99771,00.html
#7
Hey headshaker, it is a RHINO congress. Thank you very much.
I just saw Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) on Fox. Exact quote:
Now that’s reassuring.
Happy belated B-Day Sarge! On top of all that bizzarro stuff Gregg listed, my kid isn’t off school for President’s Day. Since when did that become the deal? Even my job called today a holiday.
#11 “Zilla”
I wonder if Sen. Bayh would kindly provide Fox with a list of the ones that are NOT in favor of protecting this country?
Shaker- I’m starting to get a twitch in my neck. Is what you have catching?
Matt,
I saw him on FNS and he basically said the Dems need to convince the american people they are tough on defense. To them its all about the sales pitch and not the actual product. Thats like Cindy Sheehan trying to sell a line of bath soap and shampoo.
Heh heh. Reminds me of this.
Cindy Sh*%head bath beads…. Are they yellow??
Do they smell like the head on a shrimpboat??
#15
Dude I did not need to see that this morning. I am still shaking from that sight….
‘Shaker, congress is not the one pushing the turning over 6 of our ports to the (G-d-less) UAE. AND Michael Chertoff tell us that this has been ‘vetted’ and there is nothing to worry about. . . . RIGHT! Write your congressmen(women) and let them know how assinine this is. . . . mention treason possibly. . . .
What are the Democrats doing here trying to show the nation they are not weak on defense or is this their “idol”–the ice queen, Mrs. Bill Clinton.
#19 Mountainman
I was being sarcastic. If you read the Weekend Comments you’d understand why.
#21;
Yes, but if you read #4 above, you’ll know why the President doesn’t have the authority to send troops to the border to enforce immigration laws………
I’ll bet in an election year, this port deal will be stopped most pronto.
Dems are funny though if they think the American people will view them as pro defense. It’s like liberals saying they support the troops, but are against the war. Then you look at the student senate at Univ. of Washington who refuse to let the memorial to Pappy Boyington be built on their campus, and where are the “pro defense, pro military” democrats that will stand up and say that it should be built?
Reading on http://www.michellemalkin.com/
The UAE has banned her website. Just the kind of
people we want running our ports… grrrrrrr
What should we do with all these crazy people in the Arab world protesting cartoons? Are they crazy or what?
Sarge,
what you say is legally true. However,I dont see GWB shouting from the rooftops any interest in the problem. GWB will go down as a weak and ineffective president. You see the Republicans in Congress and Senate running from him now for a reason. Wasted a great opportunity.
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/393077p-333284c.html
Has there ever been a President more out of touch with the people and more inattentive to the will of the people? Scary.
Drudgereport this morning:
HOUSTON — Houston’s police chief on Wednesday proposed placing surveillance cameras in apartment complexes, downtown streets, shopping malls and even private homes to fight crime during a shortage of police officers.
Problem here is that the apartment complex that will afford the cameras is NOT where the problems are. Problems are where the rent is affordable by the people that commit the crimes, apartments that are on the level of low-high end. Did that I say that right?
#28
Huh?
Gregg
I agree, our President has wasted a lot of good opportunities on everything from Social Security reform to shutting down the border. On the first one, he lost the will to fight, on the second he likes the open borders and doesn’t care how destructive this is to our nation. He was equally ineffective with becoming oil independent.
I fault our President mainly on not using the bully pulpit to get his message out. He relies on individual campaign style speeches in various small localities to get out the message, but very few people go through the trouble of finding those speeches. He steadfastly runs from the MSM, and lets face it, the masses still get their news from the MSM. Most of the voters are too lazy to find the truth, wether it is in the MSM or in the alternative media.
But, some of our Senators are equally weak and Sen. Frist has not done a good job at all as leader.
The republican party has drifted away from their strong points and forgotten the Issues which got them elected. Once those people are elected they seem to be concerned only with getting re elected.
Dont worry about the cameras. The pictures are so crappy you cant tell who the people are unless they get right up close.
GWB has made such lousy judgements it makes me shake my head.Now I know why the Dems are always so mad. This guy had no business becoming President. It just shows how weak the Dem candidates were.I admit,I was fooled too. I thought the Republicans would come in,kick ass and take names. All they did was lick ass and play games.
#30 KRAUT. The GOP done forgot who it was that brung them to the dance. Libnuts are dumb enough to think that translates into votes for them, or that conservatives will stay home and not vote. Not likely. While conservatives might be highly irate at Pres. Bush, they aren’t going to forget what will happen if they stay at home and don’t vote. Unfortunately, the GOP knows this.
#30
I agree.. As a lifelong Republican, I see them as scared now they are in the driver’s seat. Many opportunities have been wasted (make your own list of these……) They are scared of a press that never gave them a chance, always criicizing. But, doing the right thing regardless of what people say will always win out in the end. They are too concerned about getting elected and re-elected to do anything REALLY substantive (like a fair tax system, border control….). I like term limits more and more… Getting someone out of office voluntarily is as hard as getting someone to stop buying crack with their welfare check, regardless of party. How long have some of them been in office? They are there to serve the nation, not themselves…. BOTH PARTIES
POLITICS BREAK!
Blondes are sooooo much fun!! I urgently needed a few days off work,
but I knew the Boss would not allow me to take a leave. I thought that
maybe if I acted “CRAZY” then he would tell me to take a few days off.
So I hung upside down on the ceiling and made funny noises. My co-worker
(who’s blonde) asked me what I was doing? I told her that I was
pretending to be a light bulb so that the Boss would think I was “CRAZY”
and give me a few days off.
A few minutes later the Boss came into the office and asked “What are
you doing ?”
I told him I was a light bulb.
He said “You are clearly stressed out. Go home and recuperate for a
couple of days”.
I jumped down and walked out of the office.
When my co-worker (the blonde) followed me, the Boss asked her.” And
where do you think you’re going?”
(You’re going to love this!)
She said, “I’m going home too, I can’t work in the dark!”
BREAK OVER! CONTINUE POLY-TICKS COMMENTS.
33 “Scared of a press that never gave them a chance…”? What are you talking about. On Sept 12th, 99.9 percent of the world was behind the U.S. Everyone, except a few nutcases here and there, felt horrified and sorry for us and wouldn’t have blamed us for anything we did. The press didn’t question at that time, it was as somber and patriotic as any of us.
The biggest “opportunity” that Bush squandered and “right minded” zealots were fooled into dropping into lockstep was the opportunity to unite the world against the menace of terrorism. He lost that opportunity with his cowboy, dead or alive idiocy and we’ve paid for it (literally and figuratively) ever since.
What a shame and what a sham. Bush and this admin somehow got people to re-elect them by “talking tough” and “acting” conservative, when they have actually been nothing of the sort.
They’ve run up huge deficits, they’ve grown government and gotten government more into our personal lives. Their foreign policy, instead of using diplomacy to make us safer has actually just angered most of the rest of the world. All while more or less cheering on the American people to say, “Screw the rest of the world”.
While conducting a war to “liberate” people and spread democracy, many countries that have a vote are voting in governments who are opposed to us (Venezuela, Hamas, etc.)? How is that making the world safer for us?
If this country thinks that Arabs are all just crazy, jihadists, America-haters, why did we want to liberate them at all? And why do we still blindly follow the admin’s mantra of “stay the course”. What course?
“GWB will go down as a weak and ineffective president”
2001 - Eliminated a despotic regime in Afghanistan which now has a democratically elected government for the first time in its history.
2001 - Real tax cuts
2003 - Eliminated a despotic regime in Iraq. Has a chance at real democracy for the first time in many decades.
2004 - As a result of the above, Libya, one of the worst terrorist-supporting governments voluntarily agreed to halt its nuclear ambitions and let the U.S. verify.
2005 - Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, all flirting with democratic reforms.
2006 - even freakin’ France is talking tough with Iran now. FRANCE!
Weak and ineffective??? Every conservative here with any common sense has strongly criticized Bush when deserved (entitlements, border security, ports come to mind) but a blanket statement saying he’s “weak and ineffective” is not deserved.
There seems to be a pervasive feeling that its all Bush’s fault here. Some of it is absolutely. He needs to lead on many issues. But congress and more importantly, us as voters, bear responsibility.
#35
I believe that we all assume from your comments that you don’t like Bush and his policies? There’s many out there that agree with many of your criticisms.
And your solution is……
(There is no tongue in cheek here)
Vic lol, it was your left wing press that didn’t wait 10 days before they were asking “What did America do to bring this on itself?”. Get a life. The only reason the press shut up for 10 days is that they were afraid of the backlash of Americans. That didn’t last long. You continue to bury your head in the sand. The DLWM couldn’t wait to start tearing this country down. What have democrats ever done to fight terrorism? Answer? NADA.
DYK(did you know):
Blacks founded the Texas Republican Party? On July 4, 1867, in Houston, Texas, 150 blacks and 20 whites formed the party. No, not the Black Texas Republican Party, they founded the Texas Republican Party. Blacks across Southern states also founded the Republican parties in their states.
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/larryelder/2005/11/17/175888.html
My solution? Elect someone with a drastically different agenda and policy in the next election. Tried it last time, but, being in Texas, it was kind of a sacrificial vote. But, that’s ok, it being only the second time in my life that I hadn’t voted a straight repub ticket. I wasn’t expecting my vote to make much of a difference. But, did vote my concious and will again next time. Heres to Independents
#35 Vic
LOL, I guess you would’ve tried diplomacy with Adolf. And in case you didn’t notice, some of our former allies are starting to rethink their “appeasing at all cost” stance.
#39 Well you wouldn’t know it today by the way they block vote for Demoncrats who have scammed em for years.
#40 Vic
You keep me in stitches, you are telling us that you voted REPUB?, AHA! the old worn out independent monicker, when one is ashamed of being called a liberal.
Big, Don’t forget that 9/11 happened during the Bush administration. They had been warned. You can try to blame the previous admin all you want, but, since November (and previously really) of 2000, when the election was in the balance, Bush and his team had to assume they would be taking office. When they finally did take office, they wouldn’t listen when told that terrorism would be their biggest problem.
As far as I am concerned that is just another part of the “Big Lie” that is this administration. To somehow put the blame for 9/11 on other people (I won’t mention names here), when in fact, they had to have been preparing to be in office for at least a year and WERE in office for 7 months and this happened ON THEIR WATCH.
And now our country and world are in the sorry shape that they are. 60 dollar oil, deficits as far as the eye can see. Democracies voting in America haters. I think that you all here will find a “tough slough” come November as much as bravado would have you think differently.
Vic, see my #23 above too.
It seems as if some here are falling into the Dem and media trap of “Blame Bush for Everything.” Need I remind you good conservatives, that’s what gave us 8 long years of Wee Willy Clinton. Now, I’m not saying everything is rosy. I have suspended all Rep. contributions until something is done about the border issue. But, given the current usual suspects, this country cannot afford even 4 more years of a Demwit in the White House.
KRAUT,
I think that is what actually kills you more. That people who were on “your” side are moving away. But, my voting record is very clear. All republican all the time until GWB. Reagan, all the way. What did Reagan do when the Marine Barracks were bombed in Beirut? He quietly took his battle elsewhere where it was necessary and let surrogates handle that part of the world for him. He had bigger wars to win. The cold war. What does baby bush do? He’s got the biggest threat since the cold war, terrorism, in his sights. He’s got the whole world on his side, and he goes and wastes an enormous amount of money and lives to get revenge for Daddy. What a shame that Boy George has done such a disservice to the good Bush name.
Dang. Too serious around here for a bank holiday. I’m taking the day off. I’ll be leaving soon to go 4-wheelin in the cold. Too bad tomorrow ain’t President’s day - it would be a lot warmer. I’ll have a good time anyway.
See y’all tomorrow…
#44 Vic
HMMMM!
Germany and Canada have turned the corner towards
conservatism, did you notice? It’s a slow turn, it takes time, but it is turning!
It’ll be interesting to see how the media will report it if Vic’s wish comes to pass. Will it be
a) A “Throw the bums out” response; or b) “The voters threw a temper tantrum”; or c) “Voters reject Bush (again)”?
My bet’s on c.
Kraut,
Yeah, I’ve been noticing all of those Pro war rallies going on in both countries. Exactly how many German’s have died in Iraq?
Is Germany anti-terror? Well, of course they are. There government and people were just smart enough not to be convinced to go to war so that you could exchange a dictator who was fully under the worlds control (ie no WMD) and exchange it for some Mullah’s who will most certainly use all of their oil wealth to help their brethren in Iran to keep pursueing the bomb.
And, by the way, explain to me how tax cuts at the same time as record deficits falls under the perview of solid conservative fiscal discipline. Especially when your party is in complete control of two branches of the Government.
I’m sorry, I just don’t see this bunch of religious freak, warmongering republicans in the same light as I did the glorious Reagan/Bush 12 years. I sure hope they put someone up that can bring some old school republican values back to the country. Fiscal Discipline. Foreign policy that works, an America respected around the world for it’s honor, courage, and greatness, not for torture, secrecy, and ineptness both at home (Katrina) and abroad (Iraq)
#36 - “Weak and indecisive” may not be applicable terms. But I do think GW’s decision to invade Iraq will be viewed in the long term as a very very poor one, and one the consequences of which will take quite awhile to overcome. Hopefully for GW it will not turn out later that it was a decision that was in anyway “engineered” as well.
#22 - Kind of ironic that GW feels he has the power to wiretap on US citizens without the warrants normally required, but he feels he cannot use troops to secure our wide open to bin Laden followers border with Mexico. Maybe ironic is not the right term either.
#51 Vic
You are getting funnier.
Now you’re calling us a “bunch of religious freak,
war mongering republicans”, funny, those words sound very Liberal to me, not at all like words from a self proclaimed Reaganite.
#51 - Boy, for someone who was once a loyal Republican, you sure can spout the DNC talking points like a true-blue leftist.
To refute one of your DNC points: Here’s how tax cuts fall under conservative fiscal discipline — they prevent (or minimize) a recession, and they increase revenues to the Federal Treasury. If you don’t understand that, then I guess the Dem party is the one for you. You know, the party that likes to stick it to the so-called “rich.”
Kraut,
I’m not calling “you” or “us” religious freaks, war mongering republicans, I’m calling the current crop of Republican politicians that. Remember Terry Shiavo?
20 Years ago, 30 years ago, religion wasn’t such a big part of the political show. Once again, I’m for old school republicanism. I want to be able to worship any religion that I want to, but, I don’t want the Government to shove it down my throat. This country was based on those ideas.
Why todays republicans get so worked up about having religion expressed within government just baffles me. We certainly don’t like any other country that put’s it’s (non-christian) religion in the fore front of it’s politics. So, why would we want our government to do so with “our” religion?
Ripper, if you take in less than you spend, you have to borrow. When you borrow, you pay interest, which, doesn’t cost you today, but, it does tomorrow. If you think that Deficit spending is for me, I would think you are not a republican, but, rather a credit card company.
#55 Vic
You brought up the “religious freak” thing.
No one else has talked religion all morning long,
only you!
I gotta go, Vic. nice chatting with you,
read you again tomorrow!
#55 - “Why todays republicans get so worked up about having religion expressed within government just baffles me.”
Show me a case where republicans want to force you or anyone else to accept their religion. What I want is for lefties to stop forcing their religion (secularism, unscientific environmentalism, multiculturalism, cultural marxism) down our throats.
Vic, I agree deficits are too high! Where would you propose we start cutting to balance the budget? I know you don’t want to raise taxes, do you?
We had 9/11 because no president from Nixon thru Clinton did a darned thing about terrorism. Reagan made one bombing of Libya, that was about it.
You just don’t learn.
1993bombing at New York City’s World Trade Center. The terrorists succeed in killing six and wounding over 100 New Yorkers. But at least Clintone visited the site of that horrible terrorist attack didn’t he? No, he never went there.
Okay, Clinton was new in the job. He later distinguished himself as a stong commander-in-chief. Afterall, he did fiercely battle a faction of Al-Qaeda in Somalia right after the so-called Black Hawk Down incident. Well actually Clinton pulled out our troops. Well, we didn’t want to lose more soldiers and high-tech weaponry so Clinton did the right thing. But didn’t Clinton send troops in with tanks, Bradley armored vehicles and high-tech weapons? Uh, no, he didn’t. He sent them in with unarmored Hummers, rifles, grenades and launchers, and other conventional weapons? Well, at least he sent them in armed so they could defend themselves.
Bill Clinton then thwarted an attack on Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996, right? Oops, nope. The terrorists succeeded and killed 19 military personal, and wounded 30 more. My mistake.
But he did thwart the simultaneous attacks on our embassies in 1998…. Shucks, nope, he didn’t. 79 dead including 8 Americans, and 1,672 wounded.
Well, he had better luck in Yemen. Oops, not there either. 17 dead, 39 wounded on the US Navy’s USS Cole in 1999.
Well, you can’t argue with the fact that Clinton mobilized law enforcement and the intelligence community to work together to identify and takeout terrorists before they struck. His Administration prohibited intelligence agents from providing information to law enforcement agencies. His Justice Department increased the height of the “wall” prohibiting the FBI and the CIA from sharing information?
So when did Clinton succeed in thwarting a terrorist attack? The Millennium attack? No way. That one I know isn’t true. Clinton didn’t apprehend a Islamofascist on his way to bomb Los Angeles International Airport. It was achieved by an alert female US Customs agent. Clinton did take credit for it, but the DLWM knew that the hardworking Customs agent never received any terrorism alert and took it upon herself to investigate a suspicious looking character coming across the US-Canadian border. Yet, our unbiased MSM decided to allow Clinton and his flunkies to take credit and the Customs agent has been delegated to anonymity. The Customs agent who saved countless lives and property remains unknown in history, but William Jefferson Clinton is being allowed to rewrite history. Terrorism warrior, my foot. The only positive thing is that the brave Customs agent wasn’t disciplined for her use of racial profiling. A presidential commission led by Vice President Al Gore backpedaled on a tough baggage-screening proposal, after a flood of airline contributions to the Democratic Party in the closing weeks of the 1996 presidential election.
Now, Vic, since 9/11, how many terrorist attacks and deaths have we have outside of Iraq and Afghanistan?
Big, how many Americans were killed in Terrorist attacks during the Clinton Administration?
Now, how many Americans have been killed during the Bush administration?
I’ve never been a big fan of Clintons (except for his fiscal policy which provided us with Budget Surpluses for the first time in, …, forever), but, you can’t argue the fact that 9/11 HAPPENED DURING GEORGE BUSH’S PRESIDENCY.
If you are going to try to blame Clinton for all of those other attacks that happened during his time, then you have to do the same for Bush. Was Bush busy warmongering and getting Bin Ladin BEFORE 9/11? No, only after. Just as you would expect any president to do.
Hey Vic,
Since when has it been wrong to love God and be a conservative? What is wrong with letting a man have to suffer the punishment for his own deeds? What is wrong for telling a man that if he does nothng to earn his keep then I will not be providing food for his belly or clothes for his backside?
Last time I checked the history books it was only recently that presidents did not ascribe their very presence and the presence of their freedoms to God. I believe it is called “Freedom of Speech” according to the law of the land. And yes, I will agree that you too have that same freedom to open your mouth and make sounds and words that prove that you should have kept your mouth shut and let us wonder as to your lack of intellegence instead of erasing all of our doubts.
#59 - “…Just as you would expect any president to do.”
Hmmm, so Clinton went after Al Qaeda after the first WTC bombing? No. And Clinton went after Al Qaeda after Somalia? No. And Clinton went after Al Qaeda after the USS Cole? No. Had he acted decisively on any number of terror issues, as GWB has proven he is willing to do, there may not have been a 9/11.
Yes, Vic. I, too, am concerned about too much spending and the fact the Republicans don’t seem to have the backbone to do anything about it. I guess they are afraid they will be pilloried by the Dems and the media for “starving children” and “killing seniors” and “taking a few liberties with their female party guests.” Ok, the last one was made up.
I was simply pointing out the fact the tax cuts did not cause the deficit. The tax cuts, by stimulating the economy, have decreased the deficit.
Vik,
Who said anything about it being wrong to love God and be conservative? I do and am.
Who said anything was wrong with letting a man have to suffer…? Not me.
Who said anything was wrong with you not helping someone that could use your help? Not me. Although in the church that I attend, that is not typically the topic of the sermon.
And, that’s a nice quote you have there. Who did you copy it from?
#62 - Wasting your breath Ripper. Despite mountains of evidence from both Republican and Democrat presidents that tax cuts stimulate the economy you’ll never get them past the “tax cuts for the rich” mantra. Class warfare is one of two remaining weapons in their arsenal. The other one is dividing us racially.
I’m beginning to think that some people use a keyboard to post on blogs because they aren’t allowed near sharp objects.
Had Bush Sr. acted decisively we may not have had 9/11. You can argue this crap all day.
The bottom line is no one knows. Do you really believe that these decisions are made by Democrats OR Republicans? They’re not. They’re not even made by just Americans.
You wonder why I shake my head.
So much for freedom of speech in Europe:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060220/ap_on_re_eu/austria_holocaust_denial
Ok shakey, how many terrorist attacks on US interests were there during 41’s term? How many times was 41 handed Bin Laden on a silver platter?
#69
Hammie, apparently you didn’t get my point. We could blame Bush, Clinton, Nixon, Reagan, George Washington, my grandmother, etc. etc. etc. and no one will be 100% right. It’s a combination of things over long periods of time, involving both Democrats and Republicans, and third-parties both within the United States and abroad.
If what Republicans supposedly stand for is to go and kick the crap out of anyone who opposes the US, why don’t we quit fooling around and Nuke them All and just take over? Why even lose one more boy if the Arabs are just crazies who want to annihilate us and are crazy enoug to try it?
If Republicans are so deep behind what Bush is doing, why not give up all the tax cuts and make sacrifices for the war effort.
The answer is that, up til now, it’s not worth it to the populace. If these terrorist are lucky enough or smart enough to actually get an A-Bomb off in this country, then I’m sure that the opinion would change, but, sorry, boys, as much tough talk that goes on here, I’m sorry to tell you that the populous, at this time, is just too full of Christian goooness to go slaughter all of these countries with fighter jets and nuclear bombs. No matter how tough the talk
Agreed, but direct evidence shows that Clinton did not act against Al Qaeda several times when he should have, which is why I’m singling him out. I also place blame for 20 years of war and terrorism in Lebanon on Reagan because of his lack of action after the Marine barracks bombing.
I disagree on your grandmother though. Although I’ve never met her I’d bet we can’t blame her.
LOL Vic, there you go again (thank you Pres. Reagan). During the first two years of Clinton, when the Dems controlled the WH, Senate, and House, the DOW went up 600 points - which gave us the largest tax increase in history (including the dead). When the GOP took over the House in 1995, the forced reductions in the RATE OF GROWTH in govt spending, and the DOW went up 3,000 points. In 1997, the GOP took control of both the House and Senate, forced further reductions in the RATE OF GROWTH in government spending, and the DOW went up another 3,000 points. The Dems took back the senate in 1999, took out GOP spending controls, and the DOW lost 1,000 points before Pres. Bush was elected, and lost HALF the value of the NASDAQ. At the same time, BOTH parties raped the military. Tactical ground and air forces were cut in half by both parties, but the non military part of the government grew. If you took Social Security money out of the budget (and it should be!), the government never got closer than $60 billion to being in balance. So don’t give me any crap about Clinton’s economy. All he did was sign off on GOP laws over the great squealing and hollering of the liberals.
As for the number of casualties since 9/11, at least our people get to shoot back. It was Bill Clinton’s policies that failed to get Bin Ladin when he could have SEVERAL times. Add to that is the turnover of intel to the Bush administration.
Consider that the Clinton administration never launched a military attack against the terrorist group after it bombed the U.S.S. Cole on Oct. 12, 2000, killing 17 U.S. sailors. CENTCOM commander Gen. Tommy Franks presented the administration with 14 military options, according to the commission staff report. But Clintons SecDef Cohen said that we did not have specific information that this was bin Laden (attacking the Cole) and that military retaliation against Al Qaeda targets in Afghanistan would not have been effective. The administration also resisted sending special forces to Afghanistan.
The CIA warned of an attack in 1995.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/21/terror/main607659.shtml
What did the Clinton administration do? In Clinton’s final intelligence report to congress, he mention’s al Queda four times, and does not even mention Bin Ladin in 40,000 words!
Vic, your position is without merit.
And speaking of Lebanon, read this woman’s essay on her life as a Christian in Lebanon. This ethnic cleansing seems to be ok for the rest of the world. Why? It’s just Christians.
Hamous
#74
The link won’t work.
With all of this Clinton bashing going on. Ask yourselves why he didn’t go after Bin Ladin?
The answer is clear. Because we as citizens didn’t care? Be honest, in 2000, how many were worried about Bin Ladin? How many of us even knew his name?
If it was such a strong republican issue, how come George Bush didn’t run on that platform? How come he didn’t go after Bin Ladin right at the start of his Presidency? If he would have suffered a small attack in timbuktu do you think his reaction would have been the same as what we have had? I say no.
#75 - you’re right! Lets try it again
You know what really ticks me off?! They have this
holiday called Presidents day and the only ones
not workin are the governmental agencies and the
banks. had this to say yesterday:
kidwittehtape Says:
February 19th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
stupid school does not give us monday off and then we have the biggest waste of time ever the TAKS test that you take all morning and when super cool kids like me finish in 1 hour and the stupid crack heads take 5 hours you can’t do anything(listen to music READ AN F-ING BOOK, Do HOMEWORK, or anything exept put your head down) so i finish and put my head down and try to sleep but then get yelled at for sticking it to the man and bringing a pillow to sleep on and then have to put my head down on the cold hard desk for 4 FRIKEN HOURS. we should be able to leave school when we are done IMHO they take standardized testing way to seriosly and it is stupid questons that show that you are literate, and when a student is making good grades in advanced: Math, Chemistry, Computer science, and in COLLEGE History, along with a 95 in ENGLISH. why should i take a test to show that i can READ? I ABSOLUTELY HATE STANDARDIZED TESTS
I agree with him. Why punish kids for being smart?
Doesn’t make sense to me. If they did that to my
kid I would have somebody head!
Screwed up the formatting tags again I was supposed
to say kidwithtape had this to say
Come on J you know you want to post something.
Smacktle
#78
I agree. If I were Kid’s parents, I would certainly look into this. I remember taking tests, you turn them in and you leave. Of course, back in those days, all the kids were pretty equal in the brains department. We never had a need for these tutoring programs. We learned in school, we had good teachers who could teach. Not today! I imagine the Kid probably knows as much as his teachers do. So sad really that the liberal colleges keep turning out these so-called “education degrees.”
#78/80
I’m assuming the kids are required to stay for 2 reasons:
1. So they don’t rush thru the test, and actually take some time to check their work.
2. So they’re not wandering the streets afterwards.
It’s unfortunate that kids like Kid are penalized for being smart and responsible. But that’s life sometimes. It doesn’t always go our way.
#76
Hey Vic,
Clinton did shoot his wad when he sent all those cruise missles to blow up those mud huts in Afghanistan and bomb a fifth world country further into the stone age.
And……the repulicans are too far left for me.
#78 Hey Smacktle
We are working. Right now we are teaching a B-2 how to drop the bunkerbusters on Iran. We are also teaching a 747 how to shoot a raygun out of its nose to shoot down the nuke missles when they are launched against us.
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/abl/
#78 & #80 - At the risk of arousing sleeping liberals, a large part of the problem with public education are union agreements that allow bad teachers to get paid the same or more than good teachers. Many should have been fired long ago but because of tenure they can’t be touched. There should be no more tenure. If you’re a bad teacher you should be fired. Period. If you’re a good teacher you should be making at least twice what you are now.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21328
I never made it through HS, was to eager to get out there and work. Got my GED and tried college, but I was too impatient. The funny thing is, I make
more money than a lot of college graduates I know.
The only way I could see to really make any real money was to go into business for myself. Sales is
where all the money is. Or I could have gotten my
degree and gone to work for the Mayors pro tem office. Get me one of them bonuses.
pmartin your right about the kids parents, but did the kid say anything to them? I should have asked more questions when I saw that post.
#81 headshaker
But that’s life sometimes. It doesn’t always go our way.
Yeah but we need to support our kids, teach them how to respond and bounce back. Things like this (what happened to kid)can really effect them, have them become resigned about life turn to drugs etc… We need parents involved with their kids.
I went through some really tough times when I was a kid and if my dad had been paying attention, then he could have made a difference for me. I’m not blaming him for anything he was an excellent father. Parents just need to pay attention. It makes a huge difference for the kid(s).
May all children and young people be held as sacred and recognized as the future.
#82 Viktor
Now that’s cool!
#85 Smackie
Absolutely. I have 4 daughters (20,18,11 and 9), and the things I reinforce are that life is always going to have challenges and that things are not always going to be fair.
You hit the nail on the head - many parents are not involved with their kids, and some of the ones that are have their heads so far up their arses they don’t see (or don’t want to see) the real issues/problems their children are struggling with.
My kids can come to me for anything, and they do, even though they’re girls. Sure, they’ve made mistakes and will make many more, and usually within 24 hours they’ve “fessed up” and we dealt with it, because it was weighing so heavily on their conscience.
What I stress to them daily is that everyone makes mistakes, but they have to resist the temptation to do something that could be a life-altering mistake. Believe me, as good as they are, this scares me constantly, because I hear about the things their friends are doing, and it’s beyond belief.
Hmm, I leave the comfort of my office to risk a trip to the hotel while there are maniacs on the prowl looking to kidnap me. Plug back in and the subject’s changed?
I guess that means I won?
#87 Vic
When a conversation becomes a dead horse, then it changes. Just the natural progression of things here on LST.
#85
Hey Smacktle
Here is what else is happening. Watch your news tonight.
http://www.blackanthem.com/World/military_2006021705.html
I’m just always plugging away to get the crowd back to traditional republican values you know. I don’t come often, but, when I come ready. So far the it’s all Clinton’s fault reasoning hasn’t swayed me from my, “it’s all Bush’s fault”. I still agree with someone above. These are trying times, but, I sure hope we can do better in the next elections. I don’t think history will be as kind to GWB as it will to Reagan or even Nixon for that matter.
Hamous,
Afghanistan is a hell hole that will eventually fall back into the 17th century.99% of that country doesnt have a plumbed toilet.
Iraq will be a hell hole for the next 150 years too. As soon as we leave it will go back to the typical muzlum,sunni,shiite rat trap.Bunch of tribes fighting over a camel trail. We blew over a trillion dollars and 3K plus American lives. As far as Saddam. I bet he would have left for a few hundred million and safe passage to Syria.Sound like the better deal now.
Democracy in the Arab world? C’mon man. You have a better chance of seeing Cindy Sheehan in Penthouse mag spread eagle holding a American flag.Ewwwww.I know. Not a pretty picture.
Lybia? Well,they want to play ball to get some of our money.No big surprise there.
Tax cuts? Whatever you saved was gone the first month in higher energy prices because ol Georgy sat on his hands and let oil prices go to $70 a barrel. Now he is touting Hybrids. Day late and a dollar short IMHO.
France? They will fold as soon as Iran offers them cheap oil.
T-Bone!!! I’m shocked, way to go. Where’s that Gadboy character. And, what’s his name? feagan?
I know T-Bone, I’m the eternal optimist. I’m hoping for something along the lines of Turkey. Its possible in Iraq, probably less likely in Afghanistan, but whaddya do? I’m not down with the “turn ‘em into glass” crowd without at least trying to help ‘em out first. Here’s what I don’t want to do: Do nothing, let the Euorpeans appease themselves into another jam, and us have to go over there for the third time and fight another real war, you know the kind where 400,000+ American lives are lost.
On a lighter note…Beware the Woomba
This is pretty funny:
http://www.toilette-humor.com/woomba.html
I was watching Ollie North interviewing the old B24 crews from WW2. I was amazed to find that three years into the war, FDR was still sending them out on missions with unarmored planes.
#91
“ol Georgy sat on his hands and let oil prices go to $70 a barrel”
Huh? Carter tried price controls - remember the gas lines? GW did just the right thing: let the market respond. Prices rose, drilling activity is increasing, and prices have stabilized and are falling. Now if the libs will just allow drilling off the east coast and in ANWR, things can continue improving.
You can return to Carter’s gas lines if you want, but please leave me out of it!!!
Hamous,
Once again, that’s why I think we are not particularly winning over there and I think the American people don’t understand it and are not being told the truth, which is certainly one of the things that bothers me.
If anyone here has travelled to these places (I’ve never been to Iraq, but, known many Iraqis) it would be painfully obvious that the kind of Democracy that we have isn’t going to flourish there.
You say, “whaddya do?” and that you want to “try(ing) to help ‘em out first”, but, what has that got us? Nothing in my opinion. And more of the same is going to get us more of the same.
Now, I know that it’s popular here at this point to call me a leftist, liberal, wackjob, nutcase, hater of the troops, apologist, etc. But, that’s just not the case.
But, you say that you don’t want us to get into a “real war” where 400K Americans are killed.
But, it seems to me, you can’t have it both ways. You want to have a “small” war now to avoid a large one later. Well, do you really blame people that are just slightly on the other side of the fence from you and don’t want that. Does it do you, you’re side, or the country any good for either side to villify the other just because they currently feel different about this war?
I am working for an Englishman right now and when we started working together, one night after a few cold ones we started down this track and this guy told me, “I can’t f’ing beleive that on September 12th you guys didn’t send in a wave of nukes into Afganistan!”
I thought he was joking, but, he wasn’t.
Maybe that would have been the better course at the time. Maybe not only Libya would have come around then. Who knows.
But, what we have now is alot of tough talk, I support the troops but don’t want to give up my tax cuts, I’m for the war, but, don’t want to get off my keister and fight rhetoric and a bunch of fear mongering.
Some here like to think that makes us safer. I’ve been all around this world and I am a bit more of a sceptic.
#97
Hey Vic,
Your English friend was wrong, we should have nuked Tehran back in 1978 when they took over our embassy.
#98 Viktor - yeah, that makes sense. That would have been greeted with great fanfare from the American people and the rest of the world.
You’re not comparing apples to apples. 9/11 and the embassy situation in 1978 are like trying to compare, well, Democrats to Republicans.
Hey headshaker,
watch your news tonight and you will see what I did today.
http://www.blackanthem.com/World/military_2006021705.html
Vic, I don’t understand your “can’t have it both ways” comment. I’m not trying to. It seems to me we only had three choices:
1. Go in and take as many of the bad guys out as we can and kill as few civilians as possible. While every American soldier’s life is tragic, its a sacrifice most Americans were willing to make at the time.
2. Bomb them further back into the stone age with no regard to who would be killed. I’m certain most Americans weren’t in favor of this option.
3. Do nothing. This seems to be what a lot of people now think, although I still don’t think its a majority. This option, in my opinion, would have been the worst for Americans. It would have allowed the Russians and Chinese to continue arming the despotic regimes to the point where they would have been much stronger. The Euorpeans would have stayed on their appeasement course. And in the end we would have had to fight a much bigger war.
Once again, I don’t see how I’m trying to have it both ways.
Is that what a good Christian would do Viktor?
mrygill2,
who said anything about price controls? GWB could have turned the screws on the OPEC’ers by saying in effect you step up production and keep the cheap oil flowing or I’ll stop protecting your little golden ass kingdoms. Then he could have turned to Big Oil and told them the same thing.No offense to golden ass kingdoms.
Its like going into a restaurant and letting them bring you out the food they want you to eat at the price they want you to pay and accepting it dry.
Its time to stop taking this crap.What is so hard to understand about that!
#100 - to borrow a familiar phrase here, what exactly is your point?
I will not feed trolls. I will not feed trolls. I will not feed trolls. Repeat.
#102
Vic,
A good Christian would have already grabbed you by the collar and slapped your waffling face. Jesus said to render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s, that means war belongs to the kind and it sould be fought so that the least amount of property and people damage happen to you. That means nucular weapons. The Bible is very clear about waging war. If you would like then you can go and hold the homing device so the MIRVs fall upon the correct coordinates.
Headshaker,
Nevermind.
Hamous,
I think that your three options aren’t the only three. You’re third is do nothing. Thats what most people here seem to think anything but War in Iraq was, was to do nothing.
Did Reagan win the cold war by doing nothing? He didn’t fire a shot at the Russians. Was that doing nothing?
Putting diplomatic pressure on other countries to rat out the finks could have helped. Setting up more commando teams to go in covertly and get the rascals could have worked? Did we try these things? Not really. Could we have bribed other governments with sucker military equipment deals?
Hell, there’s a host of options open to us. We are the most powerful nation on the face of the earth.
But, most of us liked it when it looked like a cakewalk and now we are having second thoughts. That’s life. Could we not have protected ourselves (as so many point our here that WE haven’t been attached since 9/11, although I don’t know what they think IED’s are) without going into Iraq?
In hindsight I say yes. Does that mean that we would be “doing nothing”? Absolutely not. Does that mean your a “wimp” or a “liberal” or “don’t support the troops” if you don’t support our previous or present course of action? No, but, you would think that listening here.
Hamous, there were more than three courses of action, you were just led to believe differently.
Another Bible-thumping warmonger. That explains everything. Long live Caesar, and Bush!
Well, I hope we won’t be electing Viktor anytime soon.
Stay away from that button now…take it nice and easy!
#108 - Comparing the cold war to the current war against Islamofascism makes no sense except in one very real way: the same people against this war were against Reagan in the cold war. Had Reagan listened to the Kennedys and Kerrys in the ’80s we’d still be fighting that war too. Thank God he didn’t. As I see it your position can be summed up in one phrase: “Whatever it is, I’m against it!”
#109 - be careful with that broad brush
#111
It makes me nervous when people in power start quoting the Bible, or Koran, or Torah, or whatever book they obviously take too literally.
Hows about them Aeros
http://www.aeros.com/
http://battalions2.blogspot.com/
There ya go Vic, the news from Iraq the MSM won’t print….
Your problem with spreading that lie is that the folks here are well informed……
Back to the Methodists in Jacksonville
Hamous,
I’m just sort of a pragmatist and realist. First of all, I think that Bin Ladin’s band got VERY lucky on 9/11 and I think the US, the most powerful nation on earth, should be easily capable of keeping those particular nutcases from doing it again.
I’m not against everything as you state, I’m just against stuff that doesn’t work. Always willing to try new things, but, once they don’t work, I’ll go ahead and move to the next.
This war in Iraq isn’t working for us in my opinion. I guess some see it different (only 2k killed as opposed to 400k in some other wars), but, I think it seems pretty obvious that our money could now be spent better elsewhere. Set up some bases on the outskirts of the country. Do some bombing runs when necessary. Try to protect the oil infrastructure, but, take our boys outta there. What do they need to be walking the beat in Iraq for? What’s to gain now?
Liberty for Iraqis?
Democracy for them?
If they want it they can have it, if not, so be it.
Wow Sarge, you go to military news sites and they have pro war and success stories. And it’s not put out on the Main Stream Media? Why isn’t it on Fox? Or was it…?
Ya know sarge, I’ve seen you and your sources here for a long time.
Well, you know what? I have an English Captain working for me know who left the service about 5 months ago and he tells me from first hand observation that there is nothing to be won there. That these are a bunch of tribal people who, once we’re gone, are just going to start slicing each other up. But, keep sending me your feel good stories from the military mouthpieces, I’ll try to read them with a straight face.
Perhaps the Repubs of today would get farther if they followed Theodore Roosevelt’s philosophy of “Speak softly but carry a big stick” instead of the “Why can’t we all just get along?” Sesame Street philosophy that I see so often. Maybe the Texas Congress would’ve gotten something done had they not been “trying to get along.” Ditto for the US Congress, and even GWB.
So what would President Vic do?
“Put diplomatic pressure on other countries…”
Did that for 12 years with Iraq. Didn’t work. We just starved a bunch of Iraqi children while Saddam and the French, Russians and Germans got fat. Did it with the Iranians vis-a-vis the British and French. Iran on the verge of possessing nukes. Did it with the N. Koreans vis-a-vis the Chinese. N. Korea probably already has nukes.
“…bribed other governments with sucker military equipment deals…”
Tried that with Iraq vs. Iran. Hindsight being 20/20, turned out to be an unwise move.
“…could have protected ourselves…without going into Iraq”
Possibly, but with the new revelations coming from “The Saddam Tapes” seems like he was bent on attacking us at home before we went to Iraq.
Nah, Vic, those options have been tried and failed. Any more?
And are you willing to bet that “Bin Ladin’s band got VERY lucky on 9/11″?
Hamous,
I guess that’s where we’ll have to disagree. I think that we had Iraq under perfect control. They were completely incapable of pulling any kind of attack on us. Even if they’d had WMD, I don’t think they had any way to attack us.
Reagan playing both sides in Iran/Iraq I think worked pretty well, we should have tried to keep it going longer.
The Saddam tapes that I have heard have said nothing. Wow, Saddam Hussein predicted someone would try terrorism in the states? How bold.
So, I don’t agree that those options have failed. And I don’t agree that the option we have taken has succeeded either. Mission Accomplished banner or not. How many years ago was that now?
headshaker
#112
Funny the only leaders I have heard quoting from “thier” religous books for their action has been the bad guys.
Bush has spoken of his faith but he has never said “the Bible made me do it” and quoted any verse. He has said that he has a moral obligation to protect this country as president and has said that he seeks guidence from the All Mighty but then again so has EVERY president before him.
#116
OK Vic;
Let’s play your game:
You say that since this news comes from a press release issued by the military we shouldn’t trust it is that it?
Typical Liberal Anti-Military diatribe…they’ve never liked the military and don;t now…they are just using thier fake concern to get votes, but it’s Hanoi Jane crap all over again…….
OR…
You could trust the military Press Release to give good information and get on the good side of us who have been in the military and know how to read them….
Just a thought….
I’ll be out for the evening…Creme Brulle and Fresh Maine Lobster for my Birthday….
#121 Squawkie
I’m sorry to say you’re wrong. Bush has made numerous references to the Bible including quotations, and has actually claimed that God has spoken to him.
And remember, he used the “C” word.
headshaker
#112
I’d rather deal with leaders that live literally by a book than one who floats with the winds of emotions and their own where with all. I know where the “literal” guys are coming from. Them wishy washy types scare the crap out of me.
headshaker
#123
Yep and I understand his statement of “God spoke me” and it ain’t what you think.
Yes he has made Bible reference, funny so has every other president before him.
“C” word? Help me out here?
#124 Squawk - that’s a fine philosophy, it just doesn’t work for me when the books these guys are taking literally advocate violence and death.
#125 Squawk - thanks for the 180 and acknowledging your erroneous comments
(not a flame, so accept the smile!).
The C word I’m referring to is “Crusade”. It kinda fits the pattern.
I am not being critical or flaming here. I’m genuinely curious. You’d prefer a “leader” that lives by say Websters dictionary and has no belief in a power greater than himself?
Shakey
#127
Easy man I know you ain’t flamin.
Oh the “crusade” word. Funny thing about that word. It’s synonym is campaign. Just my opinion but I believe he used the word in that definiton, “campaign”, and not Holy War. May have been a bad choice of words.
I’m not a historian like Sarge, but didn’t the Crusade start when the Europeans were being conquored by the Muslims. The Muslims began conquering country after country, turning them into islamic states and when they conquored Spain, the other European countries suddenly discovered what the Muslims had in mind. They banded together to defeat the Muslims, thus the Crusades began. The Crusades were not trying to turn everyone Christian, but were protecting their countries from becoming islamic.
Please correct me if I am wrong, I’m just too tired to really get into this right now.
i am so mad you all read my rant from yesterday and today i was told that if i brought a pillow i would be getting in trouble so i have to TRY to sleep for 3+ hours on a cold desk with lunch 1-infinity hours later
Kid
#131
What do your parents think about this?
#131 - kid
Suck it up; you did good on the test, you have a million more things going for you than most of your fellow students. I tell my kids the same thing - life isn’t fair sometimes (oftentimes actually), and we have to accept it, deal with it, and move forward.
If this is the worse thing that’s happened to you in the last few days, you’re ahead of 99.9% of the world.
Sometimes, what you can learn outside the classroom/books is more important in the grand scheme of things.
Sorry for the fatherly lecture. It’s just something I’m used to doing on a daily basis.
#128 squawkie
You misunderstand.
I would much prefer a leader who lives according to the Bible, particularly the Gospels. Not sure I’d like someone who lives according to the Old Testament however. Too much wrath and destruction for me.
headshaker
#134
I think I understand what you mean so Okie Dokie.
Like a bad rash I’m back .
More on Slick Jorge W Bush II and his refusal to put guard on border.
Excerpt from article from WorldnetDaily. Read full article by clicking link.
‘Tancredo issued a call June 18 to President Bush asking him to use his authority as commander-in-chief to post American troops along the United States lengthy borders’
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28561
More for you on National Guard deployment in the past.
http://www.ngaus.org/ngaus/files/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000000591/Major%20National%20Guard%20Callups.pdf
pmartin : you are essentially correct, the ‘kicker’ so to speak is that the diaperheads feel that once a country is ‘mooselimb’ that it is always ‘mooselimb’ . . they feel they are taking back what is rightfully (to their perverted way of thinking) theirs. . . . .they also have a longer view of things than our (thanks to TV 30 min to 1 hour ‘resolve’) short range view. Remember how long they planned for 9-11? Four years later, some in this country think 9-11 is history instead of something very, very salient and perttinent to today. . .
Mountainman
#137
Thanks for ’splainin’ it to me! As to the kicker, are you talking about today or back during the Crusades? I seem to remember the muslims (Turks if you will) went on a conquoing spree and were stopped by the Euros after taking Spain. Are you saying that today, the muslims what to retake Spain and some of the other countries they conquored by failed to hold?
“Sometimes, what you can learn outside the classroom/books is more important in the grand scheme of things.”
exactly that is why i am so upset if i did not have to stay spending so much time, i could come on here and “Learn” from people with way more real life experiences, that can teach me the ways of the conservitive.
Hey guys and gals, gotta go! Cleaning folks are coming in! Pick you up again at home.
#139 - kid
Don’t get too caught up in the Liberal/Conservative ways of thinking. Use the knowledge you gain to make your own decisions about what is right and wrong. Certainly input from others is vital to being able to make those decisions, but ultimately the choices are yours and do not need to conform to “party lines”.
Dan Patrick says it best - you can classify people into 2 categories - the “I’s” and the “R’s” - Irresponsible people and Responsible people. Both groups are laden with Liberals and Conservatives.
Now, my son, use the force wisely.
OK guys;
Just a minute before I depart to seafood heaven.
What you are seeing with Vic’s posts today is something I told you a couple weeks ag to be on the lookout for. You may remember me telling you about Lizard Head and the Bad Begala on O’Reilly one night discussin the “new” Democrat strategy. And now you see it here today:
“We’ll do the same things the Republicans are doing, we’ll just do it better.”
Of course, they’ll never tell you HOW.
But when half of your strategy is a LIE, what does that say about your other half? The fact of the matter is that things are going very well in Iraq, and Vic and the Democrats know it. They also know the MSM is not reporting it (a not so odd coincidence, IMHO). This eneables them to do two things:
1. Say that things are bad over there without being challenged (unless you’re reading the weekly and daily briefings being given by the Commanders at the Tip of the Spear…but Vic tells you that their information can’t be trusted).
2. Claim they were the ones who made things “better” once they win, because they know things aren’t bad and that as soon as they are in “control” the MSM will start reporting the good news. (And if you are a regular reader of Battalion S2 and a listener of Edd’s show, you already knew that you’re not getting the straight poop from the MSM).
So here is how the Democrat message on the war in Iraq has morphed in the last two years, since the way they handled it in 2004 didn’t go right:
1. Bush lied, people died
morphed into
2. OK, there’s no proof he lied, but he manipulated the truth
morphed into
3. OK, theres no proof he manipulated intelligence, but if you think we can win over there, you’re wrong.
morphed into
4. Well, we don’t need American Soldiers terrorizing Iraqi women and children
which has now become:
We’ll do the same things the Republicans are doing over there, we’ll just do them better.
Kinda makes you wonder if you can trust them with any other part of thier “we’ll do it better” message.
I particularly like this little wrinkle:
“Clinton did it better.”
But I have a message for the Democrats:
Doing the same thing the Republicans are doing right now won’t get you Conservative votes, unless of course youe definition of doing it “better” is to be more Conservative.
But I really, really doubt that….
BTW…more good news from Iraq will be posted in a few minutes…click on my name if you want to see it, cuz as Vic says, you won’t see it on the MSM. But when HE says it, he means that you can’t beleive it if it isn’t. We in the blogosphere know better…..
Kid, I am adopting you as the official Honorary Chairman of the LST Youth Auxiliary. Show up at Wolfie’s on Friday and your burger and Shirley Temples are on me.
I’ll just charge it to the LST Petty Cash Fund.
141, seeing as i HAVE Looked at both sides, and that i did not say Republican i said CONSERVITIVE there is a difference.
conservitive = way of thought
republican= koolaid drinkin party
i have looked at my options i am not a koolaid drinkin’ loser i am a free minded individual
#120 - “I think that we had Iraq under perfect control.”
It was well-documented that the Europeans were growing tired of the ineffective UN sanctions and most expected any remaining support for them to collapse. What then? We keep patrolling the no-fly zones while the Russians and French resumed arming them from the ground? We now know our so-called allies were breaking the sanctions behind our backs. Imagine what would have happened if they didn’t have to do it sneakily?
pmartin, you are correct. The Crusades were defensive wars in direct response to muslim aggression. Any attempt to paint them otherwise is rewriting history. Palestine, Syria and Egypt were some of the most Christian areas of the world until muslim warriors took over the area shortly after Mohammed’s death. By the 8th century they had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. By the eleventh century the “religion of peace” had conquered Asia Minor, which had been Christian since St. Paul’s time. The Crusades were a defensive action taken by the Christians in the east (Greeks) and those in western Europe to halt muslim aggression.
143 YAY!, Can’t come i am competing in robotix
The Kid is wise beyond his years. Good luck with the robotics competition.
#138/pmartin: Yes!
#145 - Since the Crusades were strictly defensive effort against the Muslim onslaught, I’m curious as to what made them attack and slaughter the Jewish people in their own nations as the start of the Crusades in 1096?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_cru1.htm
#145 - I think your view of nations that are most important in the arming of Iraq is possibly a bit skewed as to where the most seriosu threats are.
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0509-07.htm
Mike S
#150
I’ll let Hamous and Mountainman or maybe Sarge answer that for you because I really don’t know. I did not claim to be a scholar!
#150 - You’re kidding, right? You point me to “news analysis” that begins with this premise:
And my view is skewed? Riiight. I’ve got you on my troll list now.
I’m coming in late, as usual. I think I’ll sit back and watch where all this goes before I comment on anything.
Headshaker, Hamous, and beach_bum… I checked the posts from last night. I’m watching y’all tonight! You’re all heartless and cruel!
http://www.meforum.org/article/695
“Whereas Beijing views Iran and the Arab world through the prism of its oil needs, the Chinese government continues to cultivate relations with Israel in order to acquire Western technology necessary for China’s military modernization program.”
#152 - No, sorry but not kidding. Wish that I was.
http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/israel.htm
“According to section 4 of the Arms Export Control Act, U.S. arms may only be used for the purposes of “legitimate self-defense.” But what defines self-defense? Israel’s 1981 bombing of the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq, the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, and the 1985 bombing of PLO headquarters in Tunisia elicited little response from the U.S. government. On 15 July 1982 the Reagan administration said that Israel’s invasion of Lebanon “may” have violated the 1952 U.S.-Israeli Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement, but no action was taken.”
#149 - The event of which you spoke I think was an aberration:
http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm
But the ties between Israel and China involving weapons technology are to be concerned about.
I will not feed trolls. I will not feed trolls. I will not feed trolls. Repeat as often as necessary and call me in the morning!
#156 - I don’t think 12,000 people are an aberation. And it was a scary prescursor to what was to come in Europe.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=908&letter=C
#155 - Thank God the Israelis bombed that reactor! You don’t think that disrupting the nuclear ambitions of a country sworn to your destruction constitutes self defense? And you don’t think that moving into a lawless region of Lebanon where Hezbollah was continuously firing rockets into Israeli communities is self defense? If that’s how you see the world then there is really no way to carry on an intelligent conversation with you. Keep on posting if you want. I’m through.
#153 - Phoenix, its shakey’s fault. He made me do it!
#158 - I know, I’m breaking my own rule. No mas.
#161
He MADE you do it? Did he come over to your house and tell you if you didn’t do it he’d cause you to shake your head for all eternity? I didn’t realize he’s such a powerful man!
I just realized I sound exactly like my mother… I’m going to go cry now.
Phoenix
#162
LOL! Don’t cry - it’s a natural phenomon (sp?)!
Geez, that makes me think of that Dr. Pepper commercial, Nomonom…Nomonom. Eeeeuuuuu!
#163
Actually, what they’re singing in that commercial is “Manamana”. Either way, it’s stuck in my head now!
Geez, where is Sarge or Big45Iron when you need them? It is just plain borin’ without ‘em!
I’m Baaaaaaack. Phone line (and DSL) down since last week. They augered through my Phone line and water line.
I let it “float” for a few days while they were working, and today called Consolidated about noon. The repair guy was out here and gone within 15 minutes. I am impressed! Power Co. take note!
I was getting tired of Minesweeper! Tomorrow Folks.
Who offered to help me build my deck? Dang, glad you didn’t show up.
#160 - Sorry hamous.
I think your comment on not being able to have an “intelligent” conversation is a bit carried away given the subject and it’s importance.
And I am a bit surprised by the extreme lack of patience.
I’ll be happy to leave.
#162Phoenix, I remember having the epiphany where I sounded like my father. It bothered me at first but now I realize I could do much worse
And he did! He egged me on. Really, he was the one that ruined your chance at last, I just ruined his. Then beach had to come along and ruin mine!
#164 - Its better than having this song stuck in your head!
#168
This is why I always look at the bottom of the screen to see where a link is going to take me. There is absolutely NO WAY I’m clicking that link! I was tricked into listening to that once, and once was more than enough.
Mike S, what is you position on the incident involving Israel and the United States and the USS Liberty in 1967?
Ah Wil, that would indeed be telling!
#169 - Dang! I knew I should have changed the name!
#170 - It was a strange forboding of the complex world that lay ahead for the United States in the region, and in the world.
Obviously opinions are strongly divided over this, but like so many times that were to come in the next 30 years we had to seriously questons our choice of “friends”.
http://www.ussliberty.org/
Obviously I feel the Jewish people have been the victims of some horrible abuse in modern history. And a lot of it was at the hands of other religions (both traditional and politically based) - and not just the dreaded Islam. And even a significant amount at the hands of Christianity.
At the same time, the issue of a nation that receives more aid from us than any other, and that dominates our foreign policy - with serious consequences - giving away our weapons technology I think is unacceptable. This admin has given Israel more leeway than any others for many reasons - and yet even they have been forced to cut Israel out of the new programs over security concerns of the Pentagon.
heyz guyz i am back from a secret place but better get rested for the humongously gargantunly massive large ominous scary life determining Examinationary exam tommorrow and i think just b/c i will fight the system and bring a pillow in form of a sweatshirt just my way of stickin it to the man
I want to share some thoughts that aren’t exactly “on topic”, but I think they pertain to most of what we discuss day after day. And, yes, I’m talking about animals again. I spend most of my days and all of my nights with animals, and I like to think I’m learning from them.
Last summer, a family moved down here from Chicago and got their kids a dog… Teddy. When they decided it was better for them to move back, they couldn’t take Teddy and couldn’t stand the thought of turning him over to a shelter. We were the only people they got to know while they were down here, so we took Teddy in. He’s a kind of funny looking dog, and sometimes seems a little less domesticated than our other dogs. That’s because Teddy is half coyote. Not wanting to try to raise a dog I know nothing about, I started doing some reading and thinking about coyotes.
Coyotes are considered a nuisance animal, or varmint, here. People have been trying to get rid of them for quite a while. All we’ve done is make better coyotes. The slow, the sick, and the weak, get killed. The best survive and have no one else to mate with except others who are the best. (The case of Teddy’s parents being an exception to the rule.) This produces better offspring. Offspring who will grow up to be coyotes who were better prepared to survive than their ancestors were.
Today, we face enemies who want to wipe us out. “Infidel” could almost be synonymous with “varmint”. If we don’t change, we’ll be wiped out. We will become the slow, the sick, and the weak. We have to adapt to the dangers we face, and raise children so they are prepared to survive, as well. We have to heed the warnings instead of stepping into the traps. We have to become better coyotes than we were before.
#173 - Thank you. I appreciate you intellectual honesty.
Sometimes you surprise me Wil. You can be quite enigmatic
#173 -
What a crock! Intellectual honesty my A$$. This nation was founded on judeo-chrisian principles. Pray tell us of what abuse you are talking about and don’t give us a link to some left-leaning blog.
neocon
#178
Tone the rhetoric down
Squawk
Moderator
#176 - Your welcome, and thanks for bringing up a very important event. It is a very difficult one, as there is no doubt as to anybody knowing it was our ship. And little question as to why they wanted to silence the monitoring abilities of the ship.
Israel is back into the F-35 program, so only the future will tell how smart a decision that is as regards China getting our technology.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/08/followup-tech-transfers-to-israel-resume-conditionally/index.php
#178 - That was not a left leaning site, but the history of the early crusades is well documented, and I suggest searching many sources.
As to Christianity and its history as relates to the Jewish culture, there is a lot of issues there as well. And again, I recommend searching may sources in the library.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/luther-jews.html
Remember, intolerance is the root of all evil…..
http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/fresh/showpics.cgi?islamist_hypocrisy
Not a problem Squawk, I’m outta here. Let the libs rule. Should be posting to a conservative blog. My bad!
Ouch, the natives are restless.
Brawl at Wolfie’s! Film at 11!
Ouch, the natives are restless.
Brawl at Wolfie’s! Film at 11!
That’s easy for you to say.
That’s easy for you to say.
I’m so misunderstood. Sigh it is tough to be the most hated man on LST.
JUST kiddin
For what its worth, I understand ya squawkie. Occasionally there are commenters that make it hard to remain civil and we can get carried away. I wouldn’t want your job, especially for what you’re paid, for anything in the world.
Really, I am a real nice guy. Look.
#188
You need to shave.
Um, whatever! What I understand is that if you are a lib, you can post what you want, but conservatives better not come back at ‘cha! Right, Squawk?
I figure it this way, no one can pay me enough to deal with all the opinions and egos that show up here, so I volunteer.
Trust me it ain’t a power trip with me. I genuinely enjoy the people here. It is tough to decide at times when to “just let em duke it out” and when to step in.
neocon
#190
No Neocon that is not it all. I happen to be an equal opportunity moderator or offender. I take care of both sides of the aisle. If I do not moderate the way that suits you there are about 5 million other blogs that you are welcome to visit.
Neocon
You or anyone else post a reply like this above you are correct I am going to get involved. The person that you reponded to made a point without malice. You respond with this? I am not about to let it go.
When you start taking care of the LEFT side of the aisle, then maybe I’ll see your point. Did you not see the trollin’ that was happening earlier? There were folks here who said “I will not feed the trolls” and you ignored the trolls. When I answered a troll, you “took care of me.” Not very fair if you ask me.
For those looking for a commentary…and good inforamtion on Mike’s oooooEEEEEEEoooo scary post about Israel seeling “weapons technology to China:
We’ll go easiest to hardest:
1. (from the article Mik posted):
Last April, when the Navy EP-3E surveillance plane was forced to land in China after a Chinese F-8 fighter flew into its propeller, photos show Israeli built Python 3 missiles under the fighter’s wings.
Not real concerend about that, since according to this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/aim-9.htm
The first Sidewainder shot in combat was: In September 1958 Chinese Nationalist F-86s fired the first Sidewinder air-to-air missiles to down 11 communist Chinese MiG-17s over the Formosa Straits.
In other words, the sidewinder has been around since the Army still used the same rifle it used in WW2.
2. The next “troubling” thing is:
Perhaps the most troubling of all is the Israeli/Chinese arms relationship. Israel is China’s second largest supplier of arms. Coincidentally, the newest addition to the Chinese air force, the F-10 multi-role fighter, is an almost identical version of the Lavi (Lion). The Lavi was a joint Israeli-American design based upon the F-16 for manufacture in Israel, but financed mostly with American aid. Plagued by cost overruns, it was canceled in 1987, but not before the U.S. spent $1.5 billion on the project.
OK..here we go. According to this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-16-history.htm
The F-16 came about as a result of a specification written in 1972…just goes to show you are older than you thought you were…
In January 1972, the Lightweight Fighter Program solicited design specifications from several American manufacturers.
snip
Northrop produced the twin-engine YF-17, using breakthrough aerodynamic technologies and two high-thrust engines. General Dynamics countered with the compact YF-16, built around a single F100 engine.
snip
On 13 January 1975 the Air Force announced that the YF-16’s performance had made it the winner of its Air Combat Fighter (ACF) competition.
The F-16 concept is now 34 years old. It is for all intents and purpose obsolete. The US Air Force took delivery of its last F-16 Fighting Falcon on March 18, 2005, the last of 2,231 F-16s produced for the Air Force. The first delivery was in 1978.
Now that Lavi fighter was Isreal’s attempt to build an G16 like aircraft using a Pratt and Whiney engine in place of the General dynamics engine of the original plane:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/lavi.htm
The Lavi program used mature US subsystems, and Israel subcontracted to American companies for the PW1120 engine project that it was not in a position to develop on its own, as well as for other elements that were beyond domestic Israeli capacity such as composite wings and flight control computers.
Where it says “mature” read “old,” OK? That’s what is meant by a “mature” subsystem. No matter how good our freinds are, we never sell the new stuff…it;s always the stuff that is last year’s news…and generally stuff that has been taken out of operation A/C because the new stuff is being delivered. And the US did not allow Israel to have the technology at the heart of the beast: the composite wings and the “fly by wire” systems.
That project was cancelled in 1987.
According to this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-10.htm
The Chinese began developement of this fighter in 1988, a year after the Isralis canceled thier program, and the article does say there is some “speculation” that thje design is based on the Lavi (and Isreali copy of an airplane that by that time was 13 years old).
Well, the Israelis apparently didn’t do a very good JOB of transferring that technology:
By 1993 the Chinese possessed an all-metal mockup of the J-10.
(Five years to biuld a mock-uo…and you thought OUR Defense contractors were gouging OUR government)
The first test flight of the J-10 came in 1996 with the help of a Russian made AI-31FN turbofan engine. It would take two years, however, before the J-10 had a successful test flight. By 1999 China had six prototypes: four of them used for flight testing and two for static tests. By late 2000 there were nine J-10 prototypes accumulating over 140 flight hours. The first flight of the pre-production model took place on June 28, 2002. In early 2003 ten J-10s were deployed to Nanjing Military Region for training and operational evaluation.
Hmmm…you begin in 1988 and finally have 10 operational airplanes 14 years later…boy, that Israeli info sure must have been goooooood.
Now, the F-10 (J-10) IS a good aircraft mainly because the Chinese have been getting a lot of help from the Russians with engines and weapons systems. BUT, our weapons systems and aircraft will remain much better, and with the F-22 coming on line, I’m not concerned that the chinese will outstrip us in the fighter aircraft feild any time soon, expecially seeing how long it’s taken them to come up with a viable aircraft supposedly with a head start in the developement process……
The only other system mentioned by name in Mike’s article was the Phalcon system developed wentirely by Israel for their defence forc and export:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/phalcon.htm
but it says the US blocked that sale.
Finally, the article lists all the other “dangerous” states that Israel sells arms to:
The real danger comes in Israel’s habit of reverse engineering U.S. technology and selling to nations hostile to U.S. interests. Israel’s client list includes Cambodia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, the South Lebanon Army, India, China, Burma and Zambia. The U.S. has most recently warmed up to India and is now in fact competing with Israel for arms sales there, but the other Israeli customers remain dubious at best.
Pardon me while I go pack more rations and ammo into the Supply Room here at the compound. I’m getting reeeeallly worried about that attack from Zambia…..
neocon
#194
I ignored the trolls? How the heck would you know if I was ignoring anyone or not?
You need a small reminder.
From Benzions post
http://lonestartimes.com/2005/09/30/daily-open-comment-thread/
Comments that appear on LST should be assumed to represent only the opinions of the person leaving the comment. “Moderation” of comments on LST occurs “after the fact” and on an ad hoc basis– in other words when and if we get around to it.
We will try to delete anything obscene, offensive, defamatory or libelous as quickly as possible, but don’t assume that just because a comment appears on the site it has been reviewed by an LST staffer.
Open comment threads are the “intellectual bathhouses” of the Internet– don’t go wandering around inside if you aren’t willing to at least risk seeing something nasty.
————————————–
Neo, I made the mistake of getting caught up in responding as well, even when I knew I shouldn’t. Its just so dang hard! As was demonstrated by others, its much more effective, albeit subtle, to give ‘em enough rope.
Neocon The point is the man was not trolling. He made a statement. Now you can disagree with his statement, but not everything you call trolling is trolling. How do I say this delicately enough for you? I can’t ….You flamed him..
On the F35
What Mike’s article does NOT tell you is this:
The F-35 is the DoD’s largest cooperative development program. In Fiscal Year 2002, the F-35 program successfully concluded SDD cooperation agreements with seven additional international partners: Canada, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway, Italy, Turkey, and Australia. These countries, along with the United Kingdom, are contributing over $4 billion to the SDD program. The Department is also negotiating with Israel and Singapore regarding their participation as Security Cooperation Participants. International participation in the F-35 program will help ensure maintenance of economies of scale, which will keep the F-35 affordable both in flyaway and support costs over the life of the program. Additionally, international participation in the F-35 program will promote appropriate US-foreign technology sharing and bring the US and our allies closer to the goal of full joint/combined warfare capability.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/congress/2003_hr/03-04-02sambur.htm
Everybody is in THAT ball game. And you will note that the above article was testimony given before Congress in 2003..and by the time Mike’s article above was posted in april 2005, Israel STILL wasn’t on the list of “cooperating nations.”
#195 - The Phalcon sale was blocked by Clinton, thankfully in my view. But it did contain technology that I do not think (nor did our military) should go to the Chinese. I’m glad you approve of all transfers from Israel to China, but apparently the Pentagon had a different opinon:
http://www.f-16.net/news_article1361.html
I tend to agree with their view overall. In general I feel this way - the B-52 is one of our oldest aircraft in combat service. But I still don’t want China to have any - ever. Just my opinion.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_27_18/ai_90114133
#190, #194 - I’m not a “lib”, but I think that this conservative/lib thing is one of the biggest detractions from actually making progress in this country today.
I do think that calling the link to the USS Liberty site a “lib” post perhaps does not show much respect due to the people that have protected our freedom in the past. But that is just my view.
I’m a bit surrpised by your reactions to my comments, as they are not all liberal or threatening by my view. But I certainly did not mean to start any issues here tonight, so I’ll leave so it can return to a “conservative” blog (is there a set of specific ideals that define that?) here, as you desire.
Have a nice week all.
Short and sweet:
Beiong scared of Isreal selling old US weapons tecnology to other nations makesa bout as much sense of being scared of the junkyard selling parts from a 72 Nissan B210…
#200
Strange I didn’t SAY liberal……
Why would he assume that I thought he was a Liberal?
OH, yeah…I provided facts that blew his argument all to hell…..
DoD is unhappy that Israel is competing with US arms manufacturers. They are selling stuff nearly as good for a lot less money…and most of it is stuff they produce themselves, which means they have a right to do it. The quality of “technology transfers” to “dubious” nations like Cambodia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, the South Lebanon Army, India, China, Burma and Zambia amount to old stuff going to nations that aren’t ging to use them for anything but self defense.
sargevining
#202
Ummm read it again Sarge I don’t think he thought you called him a lib.
Kidwithtape I hope you read this at some point…
BEWARE OF THE HEADSHAKER FELLA, he will make funny
things happen to your head. The other day he had my head nodding and I couldn’t control it. He plays
all nice and then WAM! next thing you know it just
hits ya.
Let’s see… Headshaker can make Hamous post things he doesn’t want to post, he turns Smacktle into Headnodder… This guy is really powerful and dangerous! And y’all let him run loose around town?
Sarge, saw a familiar picture over at Captain’s Quarters Blog:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/cccp/Newsweek2.php
LOL my head is getting bigger…stop it!
I promise I won’t post after you in the morning phoenix, no matter how much he taunts me. Uh oh, what’s that noise?
(ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, banana phone!)
http://www.kontraband.com/show/show.asp?ID=1286
I am last. Posts after mine do not count, and should not be read. Thus speaketh Phoenix.
From #8 to #210
Goodnight Phoenix, When you wake up I will be here so say “Good Morning”.
The End
Phoenix is last. No one post.
OK - I won’t
Go back to bed. There will be no Tuesday Open Comments today according to Benzion.