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24 Responses to “Infant Euthanasia the Dutch Way”
  1. malcolm on March 14th, 2006 at 7:09 am

    Thou shalt not kill.
    Enough said.

  2. Rorschach on March 14th, 2006 at 7:40 am

    Unless it is a dutch doctor with a big syringe of KCl, then fire away.

  3. luv2hammer on March 14th, 2006 at 8:09 am

    Some lives are of such poor quality and there is so much pain that an option for euthanasia should be an option. I agree that the family or individual, if they are capable should make that decision.

  4. fasternu426 on March 14th, 2006 at 8:13 am

    Once there was this Austrian guy who lived in Germany that decided it was a good thing to get rid of some people that he felt were not “normal” or as good as he and others like him. Now… what was his name????

  5. Ree-C Murphey on March 14th, 2006 at 9:05 am

    luv2hammer:

    I am all about making pain go away. I do not believe in allowing people to live in pain.

    I have a very long history with different doctors about pain because of my Mother-in-Law’s health difficulties. The poor women was in horrible pain up until the day she died.

    The reason they did not do more is because of the “trouble” they would get into with the DEA. The “war on drugs” has totally screwed up our relationship with our doctors and our meds. The reason: we don’t want our people “addicted”.

    But that is another post another day.

    If a child is born into pain, give the child pain meds. Even if it means putting them into a coma or state that cannot support a “normal” life. If it means that in order to take away the pain, the meds will eventually kill them, so be it. They will die, but it will be in their own time and will die painlessly. Same for adults.

    But do not Kill them outright. That part I disagree with.

  6. bweldon on March 14th, 2006 at 9:06 am

    Ree-C,

    I know what you have and are going through. This is how I know. I moved to the Houston area when I was 4 years old, we moved from Ohio to the Clear Lake area. This was in the early 1970’s, at that time Clear Lake City was about the size of Hitchcock is now. We moved into our house and as things would go the family next door had a son who was exactly 2 days older than me. Talk about Devine intervention. We grew up, as brothers, we did everything that little boys would do, almost. You see Eric, suffered from Christmas Disease, another rare form of hemophilia. See Eric needed plasma transfusions on an almost regular basis,an ofcourse the doctors had told his parents the same things about being careful, however they also warned his parents that children “suffering” from Christmas disease usually had abnormally short lives. They would hear he may not make it to be 6, he may not make it to be 10 and so on. That being said, from the very first time we met, I was taught to be careful when playing with Eric. The kids in the neighborhood were all taught how to help Eric if he developed a nose bleed or other problem with relation to is condition (I have since decided it is not a disease). Well Eric was my best friend, I grew used to going over to his house and playing board games while he had a blood or plasma transfusion. He got to the point of giving them to himself by the time he was in High School. It was never out of the ordinary for me to come over to his house and have to wait for his trasfusion to complete before we went out and did what boys would do. Granted Eric never played football, or basketball, but he swam compteativly for 12 years, he became a very acomplished guitar player (of course he had plenty of time sitting around to learn and practice), Well about the time Eric and I graduated from High School (1986), his condition had improved to the point that regular transfusions were not necessary. Of course at that time AIDS was just starting to really rear it’s ugly head. As fate would have it one of Eric’s last whole blood transfusions was tainted. He developed ARS (never tested positive for HIV as far as I know) however his immune system never was the same. Fast forward 6 years, I have graduated from college and am engaged to be married. I had found a job in Dallas and was moving out of my parents home for the last time (as far as they were concerned). They threw me a going away party with all of my friends from my previous job as well as Eric and a couple of other dear friends that I had growing up. That was the last weekend in February 1993. Eric was there, he had just gotten out of the hospital where he had been fighting a case of pneunomia. Little did I know then but that would be the last time I would ever see him alive. He passed away on Easter Sunday, about 6 weeks later. Eric was the most tallented, and artistic person I knew, he was my brother in every way. Easter is supposed to be a time of celebrating rebirth, and the lords promise of eternal life, however for me there is always a twinge of sorrow because that is the time when I lost my brother. His parents made an Aids Quilt section in his memory it is here.

    http://155.229.46.62:591/FMRes/FMPro?-db=search%20the%20quilt.fp5&-sortfield=block%20number&PMDB%20Online%3a%3aPanel%20Listing=Matt%20Thomas&-format=ZFormVw.htm&-lay=Large%20Display&-max=1&-skip=4&-token=25&-find

    May god bless you with a healthy and long lived child.

  7. bweldon on March 14th, 2006 at 9:17 am

    Ree-c I have done some research and found a couple of interesting facts,

    1) dyslexia is something that historically comes from the father, (I am living that right now with my oldest daughter)

    2) hemophilia is historically comes from the mother.

    BTW Christmas disease is Factor IX Hemophilia, just found this out.

  8. Smacktle on March 14th, 2006 at 10:41 am

    I wake up everyday with gratitude that both my children are healthy. I hug em, love em and play
    with them like each day will be my last day with them. Thanks be to God, I am blessed in every way.

  9. pmartin on March 14th, 2006 at 11:15 am

    Ree-C

    I read the article in horror! This is what socialized medicine will do to a country where medical “costs” need to be kept low. Absolutely sick! God Bless you Ree-C and your kids!

    Smacktle

    God bless you and yours. If only more people felt like that, there would be no crimes against children in our society. Society just seems to take our children for granted. Murdering a child or raping a child is called child abuse.

  10. luv2hammer on March 14th, 2006 at 11:20 am

    Ree-C I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t want to be put into a medically induced coma just so I could “die in mine own time”. The point I am making is that we often sustain the physical life when in fact the persons brain activity has ceased to give that person any form of life at all.

    Since I wouldn’t want to live like that shouldn’t I have the option to end the physical life?

    I agree that government interference, along with a whole bevy of lawyers has caused the medical community to think twice when managing pain. But wouldn’t a law preventing euthnasia in certain instances be the same thing? Yours or anyone elses personal ideology should not dictate to me or my love ones to sustain a life of pain or lack of human interaction.

    Oregons law of physician assisted euthanasia has not resulted in a rash of suicides that was predicted by many sects. What I am saying is we should have the right to control as much of our destiny as possible, just as you should have the same right.

  11. johnb838 on March 14th, 2006 at 11:20 am

    This kind of crap is why I would support a Right-To Life amendment to the constitution that would guarantee that people are not “offed” when they become inconvenient. This would cover abortion to Alzheimers. It’s not fair for the able to be able to get rid of the disabled. And even if the disabled thinks that’s what they want, it’s not fair to put that burden on their caregivers and loved ones.

    Abortion and Euthanazia are WRONG!

  12. luv2hammer on March 14th, 2006 at 11:27 am

    Johnb838, are you making that decision for others, because of your own ideology? Of course handing over more control of your life to the government, via a Right to Life Amendment falls right in line with a “Total Goverment” philosophy.

  13. pmartin on March 14th, 2006 at 11:33 am

    #10

    We have legal remedies in place in almost every state in the Country. It is called a Directive to Physicians (living will) which instructs loved ones and the physician to not sustain their lives if they become irreparably injured (brain dead, etc.). Hospitals have patients sign RNR’s (do not resusitate directives) every day. It is up to YOU to sign one or both forms. There are also medical powers of attorney which gives your loved one the right to consent to medical care if you are unable to make those decisions. These do not constitute euthanasia. Thank God I live in the U.S. where socialized medicine will never be enacted.

  14. Matt "Zilla" Bramanti on March 14th, 2006 at 11:35 am

    Luv2hammer, you’re forgetting that the protection of life isn’t just a personal choice, like whether you like vanilla or chocolate ice cream. It’s a social more and a universal truth.

    I honestly don’t see where the “total government” idea comes into play. As government becomes more and more involved with medicine (being the single payer in many situations), it will naturally have more power over our lives. This amendment restrains medicine — and therefore government — from areas where it oughtn’t be.

    Besides, the commerce clause of the constitution has done far more to advance “total government” than 100 years of a Right to Life Amendment ever could.

  15. pmartin on March 14th, 2006 at 11:46 am

    D’oh, I meant “DNR’s”

  16. pmartin on March 14th, 2006 at 11:49 am

    Matt nails it!

  17. Smacktle on March 14th, 2006 at 2:58 pm

    “Matt nails it” way to go Matt!!!

  18. bweldon on March 14th, 2006 at 3:12 pm

    Make sure Matt has his hammer pointed in the right direction..

  19. pmartin on March 14th, 2006 at 6:45 pm

    bweldon
    #18
    I usually step aside when Matt uses his hammer! He’s far more articulate than I am!

  20. Ree-C Murphey on March 14th, 2006 at 7:14 pm

    I want to clarify one thing here: the Groningen Protocol allows the Doctors to decide and act on Euthanasia of the children, even IF the parents/families are not in agreement.

    That is point with my son: the Doctors could have killed him even if I disagreed with them. As I put it above, it is “expected”. That is also the problem with Dutch euthanasia laws overall. Elderly Dutch citizens are afraid to go to the hospital in case they get euthanized.

    I don’t have a problem with advanced directives or DNRs (Do Not Resuscitate). The problem I have are the medical professionals and administrators, not following our orders.

    The medical professionals being human, make mistakes. I understand that, but I don’t want a family member paying for the mistakes in judgment with their lives.

  21. pmartin on March 14th, 2006 at 8:40 pm

    So, Ree-C what is your suggestion? To let a loved one be on life support after they become brain dead? I wouldn’t want to “live” that way and I know others won’t. I agree that government shouldn’t make the choice, but I trust my loved ones to do the right thing and that is do not resusitate if I am brain dead and am only alive because of a feeding/breathing tube. I have seldom heard of healthcare professionals not following written DNRs or Physician Directives. It would be the news de jour if that happened.

    I have seen physicians who fight way beyond what was written in a DNR because they believed they could save the patient. My step-daughter is an RN working with cancer patients. She sees courageous professionals every day try their best to save their patients. She also holds them when they cry and they hold her.

  22. jimb on March 14th, 2006 at 9:30 pm

    I think that Ree-C isn’t speaking out against advance directives or DNR orders, but against doctors deciding when a life should be terminated.

    An advance directive or DNR is an order to doctors to let someone go when they die, or to withhold treatment if they stop breathing or go into cardiac arrest.

    The important differentiators are that the PATIENT has the choice, not the doctor, and nobody is actively terminating anyone’s life.

  23. Ree-C Murphey on March 14th, 2006 at 10:16 pm

    I think I need to be clearer: I am not speaking out against DNRs or Advanced Directives!

    If you want to arrange this with you family and physician, that is great! I think it is important to do so.

    I have a problem with doctors “banding together” with each other and to some degree the government, to decide the fate of others without regard to the wishes of the individuals or family members.

  24. Serph on March 14th, 2006 at 10:58 pm

    It’s a very controversial issue. Although I strongly support euthanasia for competent adults (we own our own lives, after all), I cannot agree with euthanizing infants. They cannot consent or withhold consent, and I don’t think that parents should be making these decisions for someone else. I do support Murphey’s suggestion that infants in pain should be given painkillers. Unlike some Western countries, physicians in the Netherlands are unafraid of administering high doses of painkillers.

    I would also like to add that it is highly hypocritical to permit patients who need a respirator to breathe to commit suicide by removing the respirator (in many countries, this can legally be done without the patient’s consent), but not allow them to commit suicide with a lethal injection. The day may not be far off when we see terminally ill suicide bombers.

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