Conor Friedersdorf, Staff Writer San Bernardino County Sun, provides an interesting view how an older citizen might view the illegal immigration problem. He says that it is "based-on-a-true-story” character.
Many Americans - older Americans particularly - have cultural concerns about immigration. After a lifetime observing this country, its culture, and its people, they find some changes today deeply troubling. They may join the conversation about how immigrants affect employment figures or how illegal immigration has taxed the Department of Homeland Security.
Yet they’ve formed their opinions based on something more complex and intuitive. They take a lifetime of experiences, insights and observations. These coalesce into a worldview. That worldview affects their opinions on immigration; immigration affects their worldview, too.
Whether they are right or wrong, anyone who hopes to win converts or fashion a compromise in the immigration debate must understand this cohort of older voters made uneasy by illegal immigration, and sometimes by legal immigration. too.
That brings us to today’s "based-on-a-true-story” character: Harold is a white retiree who is kind to the Latina cashiers at the supermarket, loves his grandchildren profoundly and hates illegal immigration with a bitter passion. If you hooked him up to a truth machine and offered to put his grandkids through college in exchange for his blunt views on immigration here’s what he’d say:
"All my life I worked hard for my family so that they’d have better than I did. My wife and I skipped vacations and drove used cars to start a college fund for our sons. We cleaned our own house and cut our own grass. We could’ve cut corners, cheated here and there on our taxes, but we played by the rules instead. We cut coupons. If an unexpected cost came up we went without something else. We did things by the book even when it didn’t seem fair.
"We would’ve liked three kids, but we settled for two. It took a while to save enough to have our first child. As the second one got to school age he needed surgery that our insurance only covered half of, so we took out a loan and never did feel like we could afford a third child."
"Now I’ve got grandkids I’d like to help send to college. It costs more every year. Already I’ve had to put some of that money toward an emergency room visit for my wife. It didn’t used to cost so much, but they say the illegals don’t have medical insurance, so it drives up the cost for the rest of us.
"That’s my beef with illegal immigration: It makes me think that those of us who play by the rules just keep getting screwed. We must’ve been chumps to plan and save for a family, when these illegals have three, four, five kids that they can’t afford. The kids get welfare too. So I missed out on trying for a girl so that I can pay for other people’s kids that they can’t afford?
"Later these kids grow up and they want to go to college for free. They actually talk about that here: free tuition for illegal aliens! Are we a nation of laws or not? Do we want our grandkids growing up and seeing all around them that the way to get ahead is to break the rules? That’s what Mexico is. The police stop you for a traffic ticket, they’ll just take a bribe right there on the side of the road. Everything there is corrupt.
"And we’re adding to it.
"We’ve made it so the people who play by the rules and try to come here legally are still stuck in Tijuana. It’s the people who break the rules that get ahead. How long can we keep taking all the Mexicans who don’t mind breaking the law before we become more like Mexico?
"Already we have these Mexican gangs, we have people working illegally, we have people buying fake documents, stealing people’s identities. We have signs in Spanish, stores where they only speak Spanish.
"It’s got to stop or our country will end up as lawless and corrupt as their country. Old guys like me who played by the rules are going to die off. The young people will have learned all their lives that illegal isn’t bad, it’s OK. If you decide something is unfair, or you want a better life, just break the law, that’s the way to get ahead.
"I’m glad I won’t be around to see it.”
Just a little food for thought.
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36 Responses to “A Senior Citizen’s Look at Illegal Immigration”Search
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FIRST
Are rules just for other people? The character of this country is being eroded by men of minimal substance. We need another Teddy Roosevelt. The end of this country as we know it is not far off if we can find noone better to lead than we have in the last 18 years. The leadership vacum in this country must change. A new party must emerge from this mess we are in that has the best interest of the USA as its central platform. A nationalist party needs to form because the current 2 party system is broken beyond repair. The dimantling of the electoral college system must also be addressed for it is this system that guarantees the perpetuation of the status quo that is clearly no longer working in the best interest of the country but in working in the best interest of big business and global politics to the detriment of Americans. It is time to put America first.
Here’s another senior citizen that says “Yea and Amen”. My concise way of stating it is that they screwed up their country and now they want to come here and screw this one up the same way. Culture counts. If you want to come here, you have to adopt the culture that is here. “Manana” will not cut it.
Immigration laws were enacted to enable people from many different countries to immigrate in a rate that our economy could assimilate. Not a mad rush across the border. I’m sick of being Vicente Fox’s safety valve.
That may all be true. But the cost of a Wendys hamburger will go up $.25 if we have to use legal labor to pick the tomatoes and lettuce.
Looking at all the marches in CA,the Mehican flags in the air and the US flags on the ground being trampled, all I can say is aye,yei,yei! Arrriiibbaaaa! Viva Mehico!!!
What I find incredibly sad is that Harold the white retiree has views that would get him labelled as a redneck by many. What I find incredibly interesting is that even from my non-senior citizen perspective, I can’t take issue with a single thing he said.
Our culture is doomed if we continue on our current path. By “our culture”, I don’t refer to not letting in people from other cuntries. I refer to “our culture” of doing things the right way even though it’s more difficult. When we make it OK to break the law to get what we want, what purpose do laws serve?
I, another member of the elderly agree completely with the letter writer. I agree too that we have no leadership worth a hoot in the country or in the states and most of the cities. Too many people who couldn’t get a job in the business sector are being elected to office.
And Gregg is right in that the cheap hamburger or yardwork is not worth the enormeous price we pay through increased taxes and fees and having our schools hit rock bottom and having our resources stretched to the max.
CF must have interviewed me while I was asleep…I don’t recall the interview but he quoted me ’spot on.’ Well said and a hardy Amen!
The gentleman is on the money.
And it is because we have corrupt politicians who number one, will never be affected by their corrupt actions, as they have no morals or integrity, from SJWBII all the way down to the local city hall.
They will continue to foster and cultivate a corrupt system of illegal immigration, so they can get elected and get their big corporate donations.
Our current crop in the Senate and White House have no loyalty to the country only, to the gods of NAFTA\CAFTA\Outsourcing and cheap labor.
The fake politicians always say “we are a nation of laws.” There needs to be a huge asterisk next to that statement.
****Only the laws they find convenient at the moment and only the laws that screw the American who does play by the rules and only the laws that are guaranteed to put more Greenbacks in their pockets.
Unless they are all voted, out nothing will change.
And you can take that to the bank.
#3
God Bless You!!!
You know I want sarge to get his arse on here and apologise!
Overstated? You remember that sarge?
Take a look at those pictures in the papers.
This wasnt a march for immigrants..it was a march for Illegals!
For the Love of God!
In my reading of the various news stories before I came across this one I was struck by the reaction of LEGAL immigrants to the illegals. The legal immigrants are full of resentment that the illegals may be offered what amounts to amnesty.
No matter the name, any work program offered to illegals is “amnAsty”and is not fair to those that went through the established legal process.
#11
That is correct!
Put a bright shiny coat of paint on a pile of dog crap and its still dog crap!
Ten questions I’d like to see asked of Slick Jorge W Bush II on his Amnesty Plan, by someone in the press.
1) Since you want to give a six year reprieve to 30,000,000 people who broke into the country, is that an admission that our elected officials including yourself have failed to do their job and protect the citizens of the USA?
2) How will you verify that 30,000,000 illegal aliens will abide by the new laws, when they didn’t abide by the laws already in place? Who and what will keep track of 30,000,000 illegal aliens coming and going across the border? How do we know, you will all of sudden do this, when no one in Congress or yourself or past president’s have protected our borders in the last 40 years and are still unwilling to do so today?
3) What happens with the children of all the illegal aliens born here while they are here on their six year “temporary” stay?
4) Since 30,000,000 are already here, what are you going to do to keep the million plus a year, that are still coming across the border, from coming across the border?
5) Just how many illegal aliens do we need in this country? 50 million? 100 million?
6) Name 5 jobs a legal American citizen is unwilling to do at a fair wage?
7) Do you believe in Article IV Section IV of the US Constitution? If so explain what it means?
9) What would you say to all the families that have had family members either murdered or raped by illegal alien criminals? How about the law officers who have been slain in the line of duty by illegal aliens? What do you say to their families?
10) Do you think you or your family members will ever live next door to illegal aliens? If not explain why?
#13
# 2 of your questions is the key!!!!!!!
Why make new laws when the old ones dont work and arent enforced.
Bush and the enitre Congress/Senate are traitors and failures!
Irritation max, watching that news cast. It flipped me out when one of the guys being interviewed, said “they treat us like we are criminals, we aren’t criminals,”
What part of the word ILLEGAL don’t you understand? Criminal yes you are.
great article by the way.
#15 Jean
I agree wholeheartedly - I was yelling at my TV. “We just want the chance for something better for our families like everyone here has…” Then GO HOME AND DO IT THE RIGHT WAY
Hell, I’m not a senior citizen and I can’t find a single thing to beef with in that guy’s rant. A very good friend of mine came here from Romania. He got out right after the communists fell. He came here the right way, was sponsored, and his sponsor treated him like a slave. He made hime work hours of OT for free and hardly paid him for the time he did pay him for, Made him even come to work on the same day he had his wrist pinned back together again. He put up with that crap for two years, because if he had quit and found a new sponsor, his application for citizenship would start all over again. Illegals make his sacrifice pointless. why bust your hump trying to follow the rules when you don’t have to right? because it is the right thing to do, that’s why.
#7
I have no idea what you are talking about! Probably nothin’ new but could you splain what you are talking about?
Griz and icmslutheran
Thanks for your contributions! Good insight! We could all use more of your opinions! Don’t be strangers!
I’m always amazed at how some Americans see the issue of illegal immigration. Afterall, every person except the Native American Indian is an illegal immigrant. Which brings me to ask the question - I wonder how they felt seeing all of the boats coming over from the european countries?
Most Americans have very little knowledge when it comes to basic market economics. If every illegal immigrant in this great country (Mexican, Chinese, Russian, etc.) were to be deported, this country’s economy would come to a gringing halt. You only have to look to the hurricane Katrina aftermath to see how certain ethnic groups are willing and able to perform manual labor to rebuild New Orleans. We should be greatful for their services.
If we want to solve the illegal immigration problem in this country and at the same time protect our borders, I would highly recommend supporting the Presidents guest worker program. It would at least be starting point in improving an already “busted” system.
One other point - many illegals currently use fake social security numbers in order to gain employment. This means they are pumping up the social security systems coffers at a rate of 15%+ on every dollar they earn, and with no real future means of collecting it back in the future. This could be the real dirty little secret Washington does not want to acknowledge for obvious reasons.
Does anyone in the la-la land of LST have a real solution to illegal immigration that makes sense? And please do not say send them all back to where they came from because that is ONLY wishful thinking.
Immigrant
#20
What part of “illegal” do you not understand? This country is full of immigrants - those who immigrated here legally, LEARNED THE LANGUAGE which is required for citizenship and assimiliated into the culture of AMERICA. They had to give their work histories, criminal backgrounds, a knowledge of ENGLISH in order to be made citizens. They work and strove hard to accomplish this. They wanted to be AMERICANS! South of the Border ILLEGAL immigrants care nothing for assimilating into our culture. They are trying their best to make the U.S. a northern state of Mexico. They wave their Mexican flags and trample on the United States Flag. This is not legal immigration. And the government has made it easier for them to never LEARN ENGLISH or assimilate in any way in our culture. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. If they love their country so much (flying Mexican flags, protesting anti-illegal alien laws), then why don’t they stay in their country? Why? Because the Mexican government ENCOURAGES their citizens to invade the U.S. The Mexican government pays thousands of dollars to promote “migration” through illegal means. Just because it has been overlooked over the years, does not mean that it is illegal and nothing you or anyone else can say will convince me it is different. Illegals are illegals. Even latinos who are here legally are against illegals.
If you “immigrate” to a new country, you assimilate into that culture - you don’t bring your culture with you and make Americans assimilate into your (Mexican) culture!
In addition, LST is not la-la land! The mexicans and other latinos coming into the U.S. illegally are breaking OUR LAWS! LST
Immigrant
Oh, yes, lets put in place a “guest worker program!” The “guest workers” will come here to work and will never go back! If the U.S. government cannot control our borders NOW, what makes them think they could control a “guest worker” program? HA! How many “guest workers” will go back after 6 year? NONE. And since we cannot control our borders now, how can we control guest workers who have anchor babies? CAN’T BE DONE!
The answer is a moratoriam on immigration. Let’s say 7 years. That gives us time to set up decent immigration laws (or enforce the ones we already have). We don’t need more “migratory” workers in the U.S. Those “migrant” workers are working, making more babies until the toll gets in the 300,000,000 workers. Why do we need more? The ones that are already here are making babies by the dozens.
#21 & #22
Again - both of you still have not stated a solution to the “illegal” immigration problem.
Yet, I very sure both of you have benefitted over the years from “illegal” low-wage services provided by “illegal” immigrants.
Help give Washington a real solution to the problem of securing our borders and the un-controled influx of illegals coming across our borders.
“Both of you” is the same person!
I have never benefited from “illegal low wage services” as I do not personally employ illegals. The low wages you infer are counted by the price Americans have to pay for illegal aliens’ welfare, food stamps, free health care (going to our emergency rooms and demanding treatement), free schooling (in English as a Second Language) and not bothering learning English).
The solution is simple: STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION! Stop ALL immigration for a period fo 7 years to get our laws in order to continue legal immigration in the way it was intended by our founding fathers.
What about the millions (if not billions) of dollars “illegals” dump into our bankrupt social security system that many seniors depend on? Since the illegals will never see it as a form of retirement, maybe we should use this money to pay for the strain they place on our health care system. Would you have a problem with that idea?
neocon
You have & you do benefit indirectly from illegal, low wage, immigrant labor. Do you buy produce at the grocery store? Who do you think picked it? I suggest you drive to California to see the “illegals” picking your produce; it could be an eye-opening experience for you.
Immigrant,
Lots of Illegals get paid in cash and don’t pay SS.
The savings we realize from cheap labor and the $$$ you say they pay into SS are far outstripped by the enormeous cost to the rest of us.
And yes, they are breaking the law along with the people who hire them and the politicians who enable them.
OH boy! Here goes.
First of all it is ridiculous to blame anyone else on the reasons you didn’t have another child. Guess what? You don’t have to pay for your child’s college education! Many of us paid for our own. It’s called growing up.
While I agree the govt gives too much away, that isn’t the illegal’s fault. He just wants a better life. It is our fault for allowing politicians to keep creating give away programs.
Pres. Bush’s Guest Worker program may not be perfect, but at least it does something. It shows compassion to a community (Hispanic) that cares about this issue and whose vote is VERY important to us. We finally gained the Hispanic vote with Bush and they helped us to win. We need to tread carefully here. Pretending that deporting 12 million is even possible is ridiculous. Making it a felony not only is a PR nightmare for us, but it doesn’t target the ones we need to..the businesses that hire illegal aliens.
Finally, as far as jobs that Americans won’t do, I could name hundreds. My son worked for a friend who owned a garden nursery the summer he was 15. He had to wade through a swamp and clean up algea with a net. He was the only white face there and that was because it was the only job he could get at 15. NONE of his friends were working that summer. Heaven forbid we should make our 15 yrs olds work.
You might could find some white workers to clean bathrooms, but you would have to pay them about 4 times what Hispanics will take. I had an ad for a housekeeper once and actually had women of other colors call and ask if I was serious about the pay. So give me a break on that one.
We can be mad at this all we want. But we have to deal with political reality. If we look harsh we lose the Hispanic vote and if we lose the Hispanic vote, we lose. Period.
RWS,
I’m afraid you’ve missed the point on several levels.
The point wasn’t to blame anyone else for not having another child. The point was that even though they would have liked another one, they couldn’t have done it responsibly. Breaking the law to enter a country and then having children who become part of the entitlement mentality is not responsible behavior.
I want a better life too. So should I go rob a bank in order to gain more money to improve my family’s lifestyle? Sorry, but wanting a better life is not a reasonable justification for breaking the law. Years of political inaction (not enforcing laws) have enabled this, but that doesn’t make it right.
What about compassion for those who have voted for you for years and did things legally? Do you abandon them and everything you claimed to have stood for to grease the Republican machine? I’d like to think that my (continued) vote is important too, but it looks to me like it isn’t. Tom Tancredo seems to be one of the precious few Republicans who get this.
I see a lot of “we” in there. My point is that nothing has been done for so long that “we” is going to become “they” for a lot of folks who have been faithful Republican voters all along. As far as the illegal immigration goes, America is the loser, not Republicans or Democrats.
The argument that illegals do jobs that no one else will do is flawed also. It’s been dissected and debunked by several other people at several different times on this very site, so I’ll let it go at that.
As far as having another child thing, it really has nothing to do with the argument at hand. Let’s just say our grandparents had more children with a lot less and they seemed to do a lot better. In other words, the number of children isn’t the problem. Not teaching your children to be independent and responsible is the problem.
Agreed there on the responsibility RWS. Our way of life is very different than it was in our grandparent’s day. It used to be that people had large families to work the family farm. The infant mortality rate was quite a bit higher and life expectancy was quite a bit lower, so people would tend to have a lot of children to assure that they would have a sort of built in labor pool. Obviously most folks aren’t farmers now. Thus, people have fewer children.
Regardless of that, we should teach our children responsibility whether we have one or ten. That’s why it does have everything to do with the illegal immigration argument. Having children in a country that you entered illegally is not setting a good example. That’s where responsibility starts with kids: the examples we set for them.
On a more macro scale, when we allow people to live and work in our country illegally, we are setting a very poor example. Therefore the level of responsibility of our culture suffers when individuals are permitted to break the rules that everyone else is expected to follow.
Immigrant, I do not understand your question about a solution. Those jobs that illegals took, were done before the illegals came by Americans. they made more money doing it, but that money was fully taxable and when they spent the money, they spent it here in america on american goods. The illegals send a lion’s share of the money they make back to mexico and it leaves the US economy forever. meanwhile they siphon off far more money in the form of social welfare than they contribute to the system. You must have gone to school in mexico, your math does not add up.
So just how exactly is “ship them back” not a solution?
#28
Lock down the border! Then lets talk guest worker!
33 - DanielJames
I agree - lock down the border.
32 - Rorschach
Any money sent back to Mexico is a good thing when you consider that they are probably sending it to their FAMILY members in MEXICO!
Every ILLEGAL immigrant pays PROPERTY TAXES to our system. They cannot avoid it if they are here and must maintain a roof over their head. Yes - even apartment renters pay property taxes via their rent.
The reason we must implement a guest worker program is to allow a Mexican immigrant to be able go back and forth to visit his family as opposed to moving them here; which realistically means we could possibly cut the flow of illegal immigrants by 75%.
no, No, NO! We do NOT need a “guest worker” program. They do NOT need to be able to come and go as they please, they need to go and stay gone. How is letting them send money to mexico a good thing? is thier family starving? then they need to get up off thier lazy arses and overthrow thier own corrupt government instead of overthrowing ours! Sure they pay property taxes, but nowhere near thier fair share when you consider that many of them live 6 and 8 to an apartment, get paid in cash (so no income taxes or SS, or unemployment or workmens comp or medicaid.). They don’t buy liability insurance or a lisence to help pay for road and bridge work, so when thier unsafe and unraodworthy rust buckets hit another vehicle and total it, the American who followed the rules and LAWS gets stuck paying out the arse to not only fix his vehicle, but to pay for the mexican’s “injuries” as well.
The way to do that is to make it a felony to give them a job, or a loan, or rent an apartment to them. Throw a few construction contractors and farmers and apartment managers in the hooscow and you’ll be flippin amazed at how fast jobs and houses for illegals dry up. I’m so damned mad right now I could spit.
#35
Your ignorance (not to mention your stereotyping)really shows the way you described all illegals in the manner in which you did. I challenge you to contact the Social Security office to find out how much money is being deducted from fake S.S.Numbers illegals use to gain employment. This amount is in the MILLIONS! It’s a shame that this issue has your blood pressure up. I suggest you contact your congressman and suggest a solution that will actually work and not one that is only wishful thinking. Even Dan Patrick said there is NO way we can send back 10,000,000 illegal aliens. Secure our borders - develop a guest worker program; this the only approach which will have any hope of working.