Armed Teachers
by The Panda Man · 10/05/2006 1:07 pmIn light of recent school shootings, a Wisconsin state Republican has floated the idea of arming teachers and school administrators to help them protect their charges from violent intruders and homicidal fellow students.
Frank Lasee (R-Green Bay) announced Wednesday that he plans to introduce legislation early next year that would give teachers and other school personnel the option of carrying concealed weapons. The action was largely prompted by the school shootings in Colorado, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, where Weston Schools principal was killed last week.
“Sometimes when people are intent on harming others, the only reasonable response you could have is to confront them with firepower to stop them,” said Lasee, who believes that school personnel trained in handling weapons could better combat violent intruders or students.
According to Lasee, the method has been successful in Israel and Thailand, where schools were once heavily targeted by terrorists.
Surprisingly, recorded reaction was not hysterical, but somewhat quizzical nonetheless.
“Statistically, the safest place for a child to be is in school,” said Pete Pochowski, director of school safety for MPS. “We have problems in our schools, but not to the point where we need to arm our teachers and principals.”
“In the country we live in, we have a lot of freedom,” Pochowski said, “and we have to expose ourselves to some danger to keep that.”
“I’m sure you’ll understand, Mrs. Smith, that in order to preserve all of our freedoms I have to send little Johnny to class as a sitting duck. I realize there was just a massacre at a school in Pennsylvania, but that is a risk we have to take. Armed teachers will destroy our freedom.”
For those keeping score:
Exercising Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms in defense of self and others= less freedom.
Helplessly (and unsuccessfully) begging for one’s life at the feet of a homicidal lunatic= more freedom.
Meanwhile, other officials suggested that more police and metal detectors would be a better response than armed teachers, apparently with no objection from Mr. Pochowski. The measure would also have to find a way around the federal “schools as gun-free zones” laws.
What say you, readers? Good idea? Freedom reducer? Wild-eyed, Right-wing fanatic proposal along the lines of concealed carry laws or arming airline pilots?
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It’s about Damn time, remember that in Mississippi it was a school teacher that went to his own car and got his weapon and stopped the kid that did the shooting.
The “Drive By Media” will never tell you about this.
http://rkba.org/users/myrick.txt
While the shooting was in progress, Woodham was
apprehended in a heroic act by Joel Myrick, an assistant principal. Myrick had slipped out of the commons area, ran to his car, grabbed his military weapon and apprehended the shooter outside the
school building as he tried to leave the campus.
On this one, I’ll take the minority view–I don’t think arming every teacher will help. It might be a good idea to have a weapon in the administrative area available to those with the training AND willingness to use it. A caution: Teachers I know whom I’d consider responsible with a weapon would be the last to want to have one just anywhere in the school building or on their person, and those I know whom I would NOT trust with a firearm would be the first to agree to have one or bring their collection from home. I don’t have a big objection to a teacher with a licensed firearm having one properly secured in their car. Remember, these teachers are among those many of us have been trashing for lack of good sense in many other areas! Be careful what you ask for.
I hardly trust teachers to teach my kids, why would I trust them with a firearm?
As a former teacher, I would never advocate arming teachers. I would support having School District Police as a division of the County Sheriff’s Office and let them be armed. THe whole metal detectors in schools is silly. The one day I we had metal detectors and searches at the doors to my high school when I was a student, was the day about 80 of us brought knives and other camping supplies to school. When some of us were searched, we just told the police we were carrying the stuff for a field trip, and no one bothered to check our story.
Public schools are the perfect example of the maxim, “when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” The perps know the kids & teachers are helpless.
I substitute at my kids’ school, and would trust about half the teachers with a weapon, provided they had a concealed carry permit & additional, special training regarding firearms at school.
If a teacher has the proper training and is willing to accept the responsibility, WHY NOT?
Suggestion to Edd and Dan: Interview this doctor.
Background
http://www.drdsk.com/background.html
For twenty years, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin has studied serial killers. After starting her own company in 1997, the Doctor has profiled aberrant sex crimes, sadistic murders, serial rapes and murders, stalking, abductions, and other unusual cases for police around the world. In her first book, The New Predator, the Doctor detailed first ever in depth interviews and profiles of female serial killers. These profiles have been successfully used by police around the United States, and several of the Doctor’s cases have been featured on the Discovery Channel and CNN.
(snip)
Here is an article of hers:
School Shooters Are Putting a Bull’s Eye on Children
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#SchoolShooters
Excellent links in Jaime’s post. Just read the article. Talks about the “feeling of being observed” as an important deterrent to the potential interloper.
My wife is a teacher and I would not want her taking a gun to school. She might bring it home. This is not a good idea for other reasons, think of the poor teacher that was armed and shot some wacko at school. The law suits would never stop, against the school district or the teacher. Maybe it’s time we do away with public education and let parents fend for themselves on how to get their kids in college or anywhere else. It would sure save the tax payers alot of money.
http://www.nra.org/
And get a life membership, you can make payments.
We should allow CHL holders to carry guns on school property even if they are a teacher.
To all the liberals out there. We could spend millions of dollars on every school to try to make it a gun-free zone. It will not work. It will only make it safe for the criminal. Only good people obey gun laws. Criminals do not obey gun laws.
A few years ago, Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura suggested the same thing after Columbine. He was berated so handily that he shortly retracted the statement and apologized for speaking without thinking. How many shootings would have been prevented if he had pushed for it at that time? I am a prosecutor and I have a permit to carry, but my job won’t let me carry at work either. Just waiting for someone to walk into my office and start shooting….
I am of the opinion that not only should teachers be allowed to carry in school assuming they have passed both background checks and training to become CHL holders, and perhaps additional training in hostage negotiation. Your average CHL holder should be allowed to carry anywhere he may need to go, including his or her workplace. it should not matter whether you are a teacher or not. if you can carry on a bus, why not a school? or a plane? you’ve already been trained in the correct way to handle your firearm and when you may and when you may not use it, you’ve undergone background checks to prove you are not a criminal.
HOW many workplace shootings would have been stopped before serious injury occurred had there been a CHL holder on the premesis?
There is of course the issue of liability. what happens when a teacher’s gun is taken and used by one of the students? there will need to be some effort and thought given to libility limitation.
I dont want teachers carrying guns. Think about this. Two teachers hear a gunshot. They both run to the scene guns drawn. They see each other holding a gun and start shooting in a split second. Bullets are flying all over and kids get shot. The gunman sees that and starts to shoot more. Gunfight at the OK Corral with a bunch of our kids in the middle. If the teachers shoot a kid think of the lawsuits and the tragedy.
There is no way the teachers can be trained to hold fire in that instance to be sure no one is in the line of fire. Look at our soldiers in Iraq. They have a hard time holding fire when fired upon.
How bout this. Lock the friggin school doors and have the kids go thru a metal detector as they come in? Maybe two doors. They dont get into the school unless they are clean of any guns.
Any bank of pawn shop has better security than our schools. If this were Muslim men shooting up our schools we would have this new security done by now.
#16 T-bone/SOB/cheese/skeptic:
Right on! How about some parental responsibility thrown in for good measure?
Mom: “Johnny, are you packing your 38 special today or your 357?”
Johnny: “No, Maw, I left them upstairs on the dresser.”
Mom: “You’re such a good boy! Have a good day at school!”
See how easy that would be? No more problem!
/malcolm removes tongue out of cheek.
“They see each other holding a gun and start shooting in a split second.”
Just a guess, but I’d bet the teachers would recognize each other and would know that the other is a CHL and would be encouraged there are now TWO ARMED TEACHERS!!! IMHO
Would make algebra more fun if the teacher pulled out a .50 AE Desert Eagle, let a couple fly to announce a pop quiz!]
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/desert_eagle/de_m.jpg
Faster,
thats easy to say. But in that situation the adrenalin is flowing and all it takes is the teacher to trip,fall, gun goes off and its mayhem. How about the gun falls out of teachers purse and goes off in the classroom hitting little Jose? Or Johnny thug knows Ms. Jones has a gun in her purse. Gee, dont have to bring one into school now does he?
Tomorrow I can walk into my sons school and get 100 feet to the office with no one stopping me. Great system.I cant walk into my wifes office building and get 10 feet before a guy stops me and asks for ID and I have to sign in with TDL. Like I said earlier, if Muslim men were doing this there would be action right now to step up the security.
SOB, if you trip and fall, the only way the gun is going to “go off” is if you have not been following the rules. I use a slightly expanded set of the four rules that are taught in class.
The Rules ARE:
1. Treat every firearm as if it is loaded. ALWAYS. Even if you KNOW the firearm is unloaded, you VERIFY the gun is unloaded. If you ever sit the unloaded gun down when you pick it up again you reverify it is unloaded, even if it has never left your sight the entire time. When you make it an automatic reflex, you will know the loaded/unloaded state of the weapon at all times. An aquaintance of mine damned near blew his leg off (and almost had to have the remainder amputated) with a shotgun that he “knew” was unloaded.
which takes us to rule two
2. Never point the weapon at anyone or anything you are not prepared to destroy, regardless of whether it is “unloaded” or not.
3. never take the safety off until the need to use the weapon is imminent, and when the need has passed, put the safety back on. Never put your finger in the trigger guard until you are prepared to pull the trigger and immediately remove your finger from within the guard when the need passes. Even if the safety is “on”, because safeties fail and humans make mistakes. If your finger is not on the trigger, the gun cannot and will not “go off”
and finally rule four
4. ALWAYS be SURE of not just your target, but what is behind it. If the weapon has enough power to stop someone, it has enough power to stop the guy behind him too.
Thinking back on my high school daze, I have a feeling we might have gotten a lot more learning done if we’d known (or even suspected) that crazy ol’ coot behind the desk was packing heat. Getting “pops” by the principal or football coach was about the only deterrent we had back then. Now that corporal (capital?) punishment has been banished from public schools, being sent to the principal is more a badge of honor than a deterrent. Maybe a .357 would add a little weight to those wanting to cause trouble in the hallowed halls of (no) learning.
Adults are responsible for the safety of the children in our lives. We have all the evidence we need to show that evil exists in this world and to know that it is targeting our children in schools. In Russia, Chechyan Islamofascists have already taken over a school and killed their children.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why background-checked, proficiency-tested adults should become criminals simply for possessing the tools they need to protect our children.
All warnings of what could go wrong with CHL holders carrying in schools are the same type of hypothetical hysteria warned about that did not materialize for concealed carry in general.
We have a Biblical example of what should be done. When Nehemiah and his people had returned to Jerusalum to rebuild the city, the surrounding population was hostile and threatening. Nehemiah gave the word, and they “did their work with one hand and held a weapon in the other.” Nehemiah 4:16.
Our children are too precious not to allow responsible adults to protect them.
Toward liberty,
Teachers have ten-week summer vacations, long enough for voluteers to take a P.O.S.T. course (Police Officer Standard Training). We could create a program with incentives to encourage teachers to become reserve police officers, carrying concealed in the classroom instead of patrolling the streets. Save for a paranoia and irrational anti-gun hatred, there is no reason for _anyone_ to object to having sworn, trained police officers such as these protecting our children.
Giving cop training to as many teachers as possible is certainly more feasible than trying to impose a prison and insane-assylum weapons policy upon society at large.
But I suspect many are more interested in slandering the NRA for opposing laws that would have left these children just as vulnerable.
Silly me. And I thought I have a God given right to defend myself by using whatever tool was appropiate.
CHL = confiscation list
and in that Vein, Burleson is training both teachers and students to fight with every tool at thier disposal:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/4240170.html
and lawdog has some thoughts on what it really means to be armed here:
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2006/10/meditations-on-combat-mindset.html
Bottom line. you are never disarmed, because the only weapon that matters is your own human mind. any number of tools at your disposal can be used as weapons, including your own two hands. A flagpole, a pair of scissors, a letter opener, A sharpened pencil, a glass vase, a rock, even a rolled up magazine, if used properly, can be a weapon. If it is a question of whether you will live or die, you must use every tool at your disposal.
Are we forgetting that the majority of teachers, as well as thier union, are Liberals?
Being a teacher myself, I most certainly would not want to be without the means to stop a threat. But, I can see both the pros and cons of carrying in public schools, them being what they are. On the plus side, once word gets around that teachers can be armed, you’ll see some improvement in school security (both from threats without and within), especially if no one knows who is carrying. Teachers that do carry will need to keep their guard up, naturally, to make sure their tools don’t get ripped off.
I have perfect plan how to protect school children in the future: we will take bodyguards away from our elected representatives and place them in our schools. Then, just not to leave our senators without any protection whatsoever, we will give them a sign to carry. It will say: “Gun free senator, it’s against law to kill me.”
That should do it, it does work, year after year, very well for our schoolkids, right?
The question is not if teachers can handle shot out. The question is: Would lunatics try to get into the schools if he knew any teacher can be armed?
(The one Amish girl offering herself getting shot first in order to save others had more guts then all of the Congressman combine.)
As far as gun safety goes, Springfield XD series got this little pin on top of the gun that pops up whenever there is a bullet loaded and ready.
It’s the next best thing to have see thru gun.
I was very impresed.