If you heard Edd, Pat and Sean talking about the Mexican Totalization Agreement with Representative John Culberson, your hair was probably catching on fire.
If you are interested in seeing the actual documents, click here.
What is going on is this: the United States and Mexico have agreed to put together a Totalization Agreement. What this does is allow a person that qualifies under the criteria set out by the Agreement, to combine earnings from both countries to qualify for benefits and avoid dual taxation.
According to the TREA Senior Citizens League:
The U.S. currently has 21 similar agreements in effect with other nations, which are intended to eliminate dual taxation for persons who work outside their country of origin. All of the agreements are with developed nations with economies similar to that of the U.S.
Individuals that would qualify do not have to be here legally, and would include their entire extended family.
For more information, see this summary and the Senior Citizens Legue website.
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“All of the agreements are with developed nations with economies similar to that of the U.S.”—Well, where does that place Mexico in the equation. If that country were so great and their benefits so good, then why are all the illegal aliens coming into the U.S. What would Mexico offer an American citizen illegally in their country??? A jail cell probably!!!! It doesn’t take much immagination to smell BAD DEAL!!!!!
This is another major point that I disagree with President Bush on. It is hard to believe that the President would make such an agreement and I would hope that the congress would not support this deal. It is obvious that the President waited at least 2 years to sign this while looking for a congress that might be more willing to allow this to go through.
I am starting to wonder if the President tanked the election so that his amensty agenda could proceed.
I have to wonder how many Citizens of the United States would benifit under this agreement verses how many ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS would benifit under this agreement.
The only thing I can see positive in this whole situation is that the President has NOT signed the agreement. Maybe he never will…
That, of course, relies on wishful thinking.
‘Individuals that would qualify do not have to be here legally, and would include their entire extended family.’
Either it will be forced down our throat or up our rear. Bush must have knocked his head the last time he fell off his mountain bike. It’s wrong, wrong.
I tried to think of a clever comment to make, but the best I can do is this:
“We’re hosed.”
The very idea is disgusting. If Bush signs this, he should be impeached. I voted for him twice - but his policies on the border or lack of policy of border control and homeland security have changed my opinion.
“get a rope”
Seems President Bush wants his cake and eat it too.
From today’s OpinionJournal President Bush said:
Time to translate
pro-growth economic policies = blanket amnesty for millions of illegal Mexican
workers
spending restraint = This is not government spending restraint. Nope this is citizen spending restraint to pay for the burgeoning Social Security bill.
(Note) There is no Social Security trust fund account btw. All funds paid to recipients come from the general budget. The trust fund is a line item on the general budget. All funds collected for Social Security go directly into the general fund.
reforming entitlements = Create more entitled folks.
I think The Dude wraps up the story nicely:
Do not look for any real reform to come to the Social Secutrity system with democrats leading congress. Liberals do not want the tax payer to have any say in the social security system, they want it completely under government control because you cannot be trusted to make your own decisions. Democrats even refused to recognize that social security is in trouble.
It seems to me that there is a Mexico out there that I do not know. Bush continually treats Mexico like some sort of Switzerland. The Mexico I know is racked with corruption and abject poverty. Mexico’s number one export is their poorest people. In Bush’s world, Mexico is Switzerland. Am I missing something? As it has been said before ‘there is a reason Mexico does not have a space program’
Look for a North American Union soon folks. Everything points to it, including the opening of social security offices in Mexico, trans-corridor, etc.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52788
Let’ start an Empty Wallet Campaign. Everyone get an empty wallet and send it to the legislator(s) of your choice. Thrift stores and dollar stores are good places to get ‘em cheap. And they need to be cheap, ‘cuz I know *I* can’t afford anything else!
Re my #12 - the bold marks are mine.
All this makes me wonder what Mexico has on Bush.
I also voted for Bush twice.
I can easily remember the agonizing time from when the polls were closed to the final result of Bush’s first inaguration.
I was so relieved that Gore was out, and a true Republican could take control and turn our declining culture around.
What a cold hard ass kick we have received for Bush.
The Border is the one defining subject that will ruin him. He has failed us miserably.
rj
One mega country (US-Mexico-Canada) could have benefits if the govt and businees models were US biased (look at the resources in Mexico and Canada). I would not want this to happen but I think the future may hold something like this just based on world political/economical situations. If the US could get down into Central America then the border is much smaller. Of course there is more coastline. There would be a lot of welfare issues but the US business and private folks could go into Mexico and Canada and really develop things new frontiers). Canada is not so much the issue but how many folks would move up there if this was one country?
If anyone heard the Culberson interview, please post a short synopsis of his comments and supposed progress in stopping this.
Thank you.
So many things in the US are so upside down I wish they’d just drop us on our heads and get is over with. We’re losing our culture and paying “them” to take it from us.
This is so bad and so beyond comprehension, I can’t even make a printable comment!
DJ is an idiot, tin foil hat, conspiracy theory nut.
He will refrain from comment.
First, before everyone flames up
I think there is some more misinformation being bandied around by this group
This is not what these agreements are saying we are not sending social security benefits to illegal aliens
What we are saying is that both Mexico and the United States tax foriegn income but also allow credits for taxes paid - what both countries are doing is combining INFORMATION so they know who is working and where.
This is important for several reasons - first to stop taxing foreign nationals in social security which does not apply to them and to credit US taxpayers for payments in the federal system of Mexico
Now, voting for democrats can and will get illegals status, social security in exchange for votes. but this is not what they are doing here, yet
I think Tedtam has an excellent idea. The Empty Wallet Campaign, yeah!
Eric have you ever put a puzzle together?
The puzzle is half finished. I am still stunned that educated people cant see the big picture. Although I must admit and am very thankful that the number of people getting it is growing.
To those who get it and are taking action. Thank You.
Ree C,
Actually we are seeing a piece of history
The direct relative of FDR his son James founded a group that evolved into the group TREA or TCSL who is raising the alarm to highlight something
What this group has always advocated is the notch or equalization of SS benefits (see raising the benefits beyond inflation)
What these agreements mean is that wages paid in both systems are credited (this has been proposed) but not an exchange
Also this is by legally employed workers - illegals never get their taxes returned or benefits paid
from a florida paper
[snip]
The myth of notch unfairness first was propagated by the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, a lobbying group that installed FDR’s son, James Roosevelt, as its titular head.
For years, the National Committee weaseled $20 and $50 donations from notch babies, vowing to get them extra dough, which of course never happened.
In recent years, the National Committee has progressed to more legitimate issues while the notch banner has been resurrected by the TREA Senior Citizens League. According to IRS documents, the Senior Citizens League raised $46-million from 1997 through 2000.
One ploy was a “Notch Victim Register,” which seemed to imply that signing up could somehow grease the skids as soon as a notch reform bill passed - as if the Social Security Administration would ever work through the Senior
[snip]
Niece group raising millions by fleecing victums a simple google would have told Edd Culbertson et al that their information was at least slanted if not entirely malicious
Eric,
So you’re saying that this (from the link “this summary”) is incorrect?:
Squawk’s note aside, please provide us proof of inaccuracy in the above statement.
(Note) There is no Social Security trust fund account btw. All funds paid to recipients come from the general budget. The trust fund is a line item on the general budget. All funds collected for Social Security go directly into the general fund.
BTW, here’s the article Eric quoted from in its entirety:
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/30/Seniority/The_myth_of_the_notch.shtml
There is no mention of illegal immigration as it pertains to Social Security benefits in the article.
Daniel,
Exactly my point, how many years have illegals been here? How many millions came here (there has NEVER been legal immigration to America as some experts contend since the civil war when Lincoln ended it by Executive authority)
So who do you want to send back?
The Irish? The Swedes? The Italians? the 4 million Canadians living here? What about the Cubans and the Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians? or maybe the Mexicans?
Let me guess, all of these groups draw social security, medicaid, kill people, commit crimes
so who does DJ want to send home?
Educated people want to know
Dude
No it was a back ground piece on the nefarious and often investigated group who are short of criminal behavior but not by much and you all are taking their word as gospel……
It is a good thing that this has not been labelled a conspiracy otherwise it would be ignored.
Dude
Another simple google search would have yielded this
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/fec/?commid=C00327064&page=campaigns&order=TOTAL&cycle=2005-2006
which is their contributions in the last political cycle
So we have a group giving the overwhelming bulk of their money to a political party who votes overwhelmingly for entitlements
#14 I remember that when “W” begean to run for guv’nor of Texas the conspiracy folks were talking about Bush’s alleged connection to some bank and Mexican partners and connections with drug smuggling.
The above is the sum total of my knoledge on that.
How bad could it have gotten?? We complain about President Bush but what about an administration under either Algore or Flip/Flop Kerry. I am not excusing President Bush’s actions or lack of them but I cringe to think about it under Algore or Kerry. With any bleeding heart liberal like those two, we definitely would have amnesty for all. That would only encourage more to come and eventually they would vote “whitey” out so that what Algore or Kerry started they couldn’t stop.
Interesting Eric, but again, it says nothing of the issue in question. I don’t like who they give their money to, but it has nothing to do with the price of menudo in Matamoros.
dude
follow the money
Look more google results I will summarize - find information ot the contrary but here it goes
They want 5,000 lump sum payments for every decade on social security for people aged 85 and above (so 20,000 per person)
This group has consistently advocated the raising of benefits for those over 80
This group has opposed every Republican effort to lower, remove, or privatize social security
This have harassed the government in suing for a DRAFT a NON NEGOTIATED WORK PAPER, not approved or even presented to Mexico YET! to try and keep thousands of senior citizens living in Mexico from losing their higher social security and getting the much lower Mexican version.
This is what this is about - they are redirecting everyone by flying the red flag of Illegals that gets everyone off on a tear about nothing
Congress and the President have to approve it
I want to know when the presidente and our elected officials/congressscum are going to do their Constitutional duty and secure the borders. That is what we should be getting not talks of handing our SS to other countries and non citizens.
Please Robert spare me the lesser of two evils. We need to demand more of whoever it is that gets elected. Not sit back and accept the wholesale selling out of our country.
We conservatives got liberal government.
Chew on that while you spew the lesser of two evils garb.
Yes, that is true. But I think I’m with Ree-C on this point:
The hand you wish in always fills up more slowly than the other one unfortunately.
eric,
Article 3 Section 1 of the document:
“A person who is or has been subject to the applicable laws of one Party and who resides in the territory of the other Party, as well as the person’s dependents or survivors who reside in the territory of the other Party; shall receive equal treatment with nationals of the other Party in the implementation of the applicable laws of the other Party regarding entitlement to and payments of benefits.”
sure sounds to me like that is giving Mexican nationals SS benefits.
Here is a pretty good article on this entire fiasco.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53613
Fiasco is polite.
DMoose
Yep to LEGALLY Employed, BTW, we have almost 1 million retirees living in Mexico according to some estimates me, I find those numbers way too high but the point is they are working and living in Mexico and drawing double pensions also in America but to a smaller extent.
so this really pertains to those who are illegal, legal residents are already entitled to benefits as they are paying into the system.
But this is still a working paper
Not a reality
Dude,
I agree that Bush may sign it but remember - it pertains to both sides - the retirees in Mexico will receive the Mexican version equalization is a doulbe edged sword.
BTW, never seen a 10 pager agreed to by the times the lawyers get through with it mt predicition it will be 189 pages single spaced.
This puts it in perspective…
For example, a worker who turns 62 after 1990 generally needs 40 calendar quarters of coverage to receive retirement benefits. Under the cross-country agreements, workers can combine earnings from both countries in order to qualify for benefits in the U.S.
The agreements generally provide that workers need only 18 months of coverage in the U.S. to qualify.
However, the league said Mexico’s retirement system is “radically” different from other nations, the group said. “There, only 40 percent of the non-government workers participate in the system, as opposed to 96 percent of America’s non-government workers. Additionally, the U.S. system is progressive, meaning lower-income workers get back much more than they paid into the system. But in Mexico, workers get back only what they put in, plus interest.”
#35 DanielJames
I am with you on this one. I want the border secured, the ILLEGALS thrown out, and I do not care which party does it.
What amazes me is that neither party is jumping at the chance to be on the right side of this issue. I personally think that whatever party secures the border first will be unbeatable in the next election.
41
Daniel, 40 quarters he’s getting taxed technically at his highest earnings (as all pension theories use the staple - I dont - that people earn the most at the end of their careers) this is hardly a giveaway….
But it applies to legally employed - that means A.. he has to get a sponser ie a American entity that needs him
B.. he has too move (how much will that cost)
C.. he has too work for 10 years
The details are going to change its going to go back and forth
Still holding at 189 pages and a Calc II bonus question for the final formula
Reply to No. 35:
I did not mean to imply the “lesser of two evils” theory. I voted for President Bush twice not expecting that my choice would be the lesser of two evils. I am as disappointed as you are about the immigration problem. I have listened to many theories about who benefits or why there is no action. I guess my conclusion is that until it becomes an issue in a Presidential campaign, neither candidate will do anything about it. The problem festered itself into the mid term elections to the point where Congress voted for a wall but of course didn’t approve funds for it. I guess by the time the 2008 Presidential election cycle comes around the problem should be pretty big by then for the the President and Congress. So unless there is a chance to get voted out, there won’t be any action unless of course another 9/11 happens and the terrorists are tracked back to coming across the border. I’m telling you “PC” is going to be the silent killer, here.
The cost to benefit ratio between mexico and the uS disturbing. It is obscene that it is even discussed. Will mexico ever repay the American taxpayer for all the entitlements the illegals receive? Why is this not being dicussed? Why are our borders not secured? What is going on here? We are being recolonized rapidly and this is what GW thinks is important?
I must be going insane.
Robert. My apologies. I am distressed.
Sorry
My understanding is that a US citizen qualifies for retirement benefits immediately upon reaching the the 40 quarter minimum, which in general would not include his highest earning years. And I think benefits are not based necessarily anymore on your final three years earnings.
According to an FAQ on the House Ways and Means Committee website (http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/ss/qandamexico.pdf) “most” illegals would not qualify. It seems to have something to do with when their SSN was issued, and recent laws barring illegals from receiving federal benefits. I’m not vouching for the accuracy, just passing it along.
Hope the link works this time:
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/ss/qandamexico.pdf
Daniel,
Its going to be alright, we are a great country, just got back from another month in Europe - Believe me we are a great country
100 million mexicans, Iranians, Italians or fijians are not going to affect us - we are strong because we are free.
I am sure Rome had the same thoughts.
I like you eric. I think you are a very smart person. I am shaken by your post. If we continue down this road it will not be alright.
Shannon,
Well, its capped but my presumption was a Mexican comes over here in his later years has to work 40 quarters to qualify for full benefits otherwise he gets a partial check as would any worker but its a moot point
The Facts
Its not happened yet
The information comes from a group that has ties to FDR, The Democrat Party, and has advocated huge increases in benefits to current members and spread 3.9 million (more than Enron) lobbying congressional Democrats for lump some payments
The draft hasn’t been submitted yet officially and Mexicos counter draft hasn’t been seen either
Let me just add this. We are watching several countries die as we type for the same reasons. Man we are arrogant if we thing we will be the only ones to survive this assault. Never in recorded history has a nation taken on this many foreigners this quickly and survived.
Daniel,
Oh I’m watching, I was pissed when Grey Davis motor votered thousands onto the rolls in California and was advertizing in Jauarez and Tijuana for workers to come to the state
I was concerned when Reagan folded yet again to the Democrats
But I play the Viola not the Violin and it burns longer and hotter
But until we get 60 votes in the senate I’m not going to fall for some easy racial traps set by the not so subtle dems and their willing lapdogs in academia and the Press
Pyrric victories don’t win wars
Reading the FAQ from the Ways and Means committee, all it says it Most Illegals won’t get beneifits, Some Illegals won’t be elligible, it never says that ALL illegals will not get benefits.
#52
I think the important thing here is we think it is a bad deal, we do not want it submitted, and if it comes down to it we want Cingress to vote it down.
This agreement will work well in tandem with amnesty.
DJ
FYI, I’m doing some Constitutional posts over on my ‘blog. I thought you’d be interested in my take, and willing to make a few comments.
On it. Thanks
I am reading Pat Robertson’s “State of Emergency”. Whatever your views on Pat, he is right about the invasion of the US. If we don’t ship back the illegals (ALL of them - and yes, it can be done if we want to badly enough) and put a halt on any immigration for at least 10 years and mandate that all current immigrants and future immigrants learn English and assimilate, we will fail as a country. Sweden requires those immigrating to learn Swedish (even though most Swedes are bi-lingual) and bars “colonias” in order to prevent the problems that Europe is having with their Muslim population.
dcgirl
Thats Buchanan.
His book nails it. Too bad most have more disdain for him than the invaders. But hey, thats the product of PC and propaganda.
Wino
I found your Christmas light story very entertaining.
We need to vote this draft right out of Congress’s hands before it goes to committee. We also should refuse to even bargain with Mexico. This is America and our Congress needs to listen to us American citizens and not to the dictator’s of other countries and stop allowing them to dictate their programs to us.