COLD - the blankets covering the plants are frozen stiff. 32F but no snow as of yet.
Just tried to get these 3 big, gruff dogs to go outside to do their “bizness” with the promise of letting them right back in. I opened the door, they cocked their heads and looked at me as if to ask, “Are you CRAZY?!” and flopped back down to sleep.
It’s a lovely 30 degrees with a steady rain falling here in Cut-N-Shoot… although it’s not falling too far - only as far as the first inanimate object it hit, which it then decorates with lovely little icicles.
I had to come in to work early so my boss could call me and ask if it was safe to come in to work. The really funny thing is he is Canadian, so should be more comfortable with driving in cold weather.
michael mccall, cronyn, boosh and the suttons conspired to make sure the two border patrol agent go to jail for stopping a drug smuggler as well as an illegal alien. Please notify your representatives about this.
I will donate money to the Democrat that brings impeachment charges against boosh for any reason.
So it looks like many of the Democrats and Conservatives can finally all agree on impeaching Bush. However, if the Democrats impeach Bush on a border issue, won’t they then have to do something about the border to not lose credibility?
Anyone see Cragg Hines column about capital punishment? He was boo-hoo-ing that Barzan Ibrahim (Saddam’s half brother and chief of the secret police) was decapitated while being hung and using it to rail against Texas’ death penalty.
I wrote him to ask when he’ll speak out against abortion, since the innocent unborn are crushed and dismembered far more cruelly than Ibrahim was, and that there are 20,000 abortions in the U.S. per week versus 1 capital punishment.
(P.S. I’m not trying to pile on those who have been involved in abortions. There is hope, forgiveness and healing in Jesus. But abortion is evil and people need to hear the truth about it).
These days Democrats and credibility do not compute; the Repubs need to be very careful they do not follow suit. Hooray for Ted Poe and John Culberson.
I hate cold weather when it gets this cold, but I have to go to work since I deal with mortuary services (job security). I talked to some people in Illinois and New Mexico and Oklahoma yesterday and they told me the death toll is up in their areas. Not a good situation with this bad weather.
Working from home again. I may go to the office later today … maybe. At least we will not have to go to Austin till next week.
Our kids are in clas right now, behind me. Ha ha ha.
They are doing a reading aloud: Ivanhoe.
They finished going through a list of terms prior to the reading. The question of the day: how is fuedalism different than a “real property” (title in fee) tax system? Or share cropping, for that matter?
Can you believe the Chronicle with this police overtime thing? A lot of this time is due to court time. Most DWI cases are heard on Mondays since it makes it hard on the officer. The DWI officer works on the night shift, court is at 8:00 in the morning. He or she has to be there. What they have is a quiet room at the Court House where the officer can go and sleep until they are called.
Now compound this with traffic court and other district court cases and a working officer will get quite a bit of overtime.
The City of Houston has ignored the need for additional officers for years. HPD is even lowering their standards to try and hire more officers. Other agencies are following their lead.
The answer in all areas of the State is to increase the pay and incentives so you can hire quality officers.
Edd Hendee on the radio this morning blew the lid on a tale of lying by omission and highly suspect relationships among the prosecutor in the case, Cornyn, McCall, Alberto Gonzales and members of the Bush gubernatorial administration.
Here’s to hoping LST will cover the story on its front page. If not, this story “has legs” and will appear elsewhere.
I have sent the following email to McCaul (my congressman):
Here it is:
Dear sir,
A very credible challenge to your credibility has been made concerning your actions and decisions surrounding two recently imprisoned border patrol agents.
Please refrain from responding with a form letter. The implications of this growing scandal require your very public and impeccably credible and detailed response.
Why should better police protection necessarily mean a tax increase? What we need is a real business like approach to government that would allow us to fund the priorities before funding all of the do nothing, feel good social programs. Everyone out here knows that the City of Houston waste at least $1.00 out of every 4.
I believe that the City of Houston has the monetary resources to fully fund all necessary City services.
Postman never made it to the house yesterday and when I went out to pick up the paper this morning the flag was still up on the mailbox and it was frozen shut. (Huh?)
I’m not sure that Laura is aware of all the connections. Ted poe was on Edd’s show this morning and certainly knows the story, but he may not be in a position to make the same case concerning one of his colleagues that Edd did….YET.
Congressman McCaul is my represenative. I have written him requesting his very public involvement an explanation of why the Border Patrol Agents, and the Deputy should remain in Jail or his best efforts to free them. I want a PUBLIC airing of all the facts.
I will also be contacting both Texas Senators who have also been neglegent in checking the facts in what I consider unjust prosecutions and convictions.
Malcolm…LOL…I knew it was you without even looking at your name. Let’s see if we can get the Feds to revamp their voicemail prompts. Write or call your congressman/woman’s office.
For those of you that did not hear Edd’s show….here is a synopsis:
Congressman McCaul organized a meeting to discuss the case. Poe, Culberson and another congressman was in attendance. Others were also present. A case was made that the prosecution was clean, and that written testimony was available that the two BP agents had “set out to kill some illegals that day.” Such documentation has never been produced upon request.
McCaul used to be employed by the prosecutor in the case. The prosecutor’s father apparently was high-up in the Bush transition team, as was Cornyn. Cornyn, a former judge, has completely refused to help get an airing of the developments in this case. Alberto Gonzales was Governor Bush’s man in Mexico.
At the meeting, McCaul never revealed to his Congressional colleagues that he had a close relationship with the prosecutor.
These nature of these relationships become very significant if you familiarize yourself with the details of the prosecution (I urge you to do so) of these two Border Patrol agents, who entered federal prison today. The drug dealer that was shot is free and avoided subsequent drug arrests so he could be available to testify against the agents.
This thing stinks from top to bottom. I’m sure that this goes much deeper that what we have heard until now. I think this will get pretty nasty before the end.
Most importantly, Congressman McCaul CHAIRED the subcommittee which sould have investigated this case. The outcry to do so has been going on for months. As chairman, he chose to do nothing about this matter, including issuing subpoenas which could have easily cleared this whole matter up and save his embattled former-employer-US Attorney friend alot of grief.
It appears that there are no such documents to be subpoenaed and the Congressman may be running a cover operation for his friend, instead.
I encourage everyone in McCauls district to contact his office and respectfully request that he act quickly and publically to resolve this matter. If enough of us do this he will feel the need to act or risk upsetting a significant percentage of his voting base.
I urge Every Texas to write to both of our State Senators. We have seen Cornyn change course before when enough people contacted his office demanding action.
McCaul not only chose to do nothing about this case in his capacity as chairman of the relevant subcommittee he—in setting up this meeting with concerned congressional colleagues—may have had a role in attempting to divert them off-course (”calling the dogs off”, so to speak).
Bush and/or his underlings have more than a passing relationship with each of the players in this story.
The president ignored the appeal of 50 Congressmen and 200,000 petitioners (20,000 who were Texans) to pardon these Border Patrol agents and investigate their highly questionable prosecution.
44 SC
Not sure, but don’t you know he/she would love to bring down what he/she would surely refer to as the Texas/Mexico/Bush Mafia Justice Department???????
At the time they did not know he was a drug dealer or a criminal - they violated their rules of engagement - they used excesive speed, they persued on foot and then for all law enforcement officers - they shoot him in the back and could have very well killed him
the fact that he turned out to be a drug dealer is irrelevant
The fact that they lied to cover up their criminal involvement and destroyed the crime seen is why they are getting the book thrown at them
Its harsh, it seems unfair - were they protecting America or were they committing murder - we don’t know this was very very unusual for them to persue someone without probable cause some speculations run wild but with drugs involved anyone could be as well
# 26, on your subject of Houston police. I left apartment 8:30, one police car, one ambulance and one fire truck, across the way. Later, drove back and now, 2 police cars, 2 Harris County Medical
Examiner white vans are still there. For one crazy lady that OD’d. But, we do not have security for the complex. Things are not how they seem.
I’m in and out (a lot) today due to work, but your post caught my eye. I don’t know about the BP ROE, but can someone answer these questions?
1) Whether he was a known drug dealer or not, if they knew he came in from a remote location (as was discussed this morning), are they not supposed to try to apprehend?
2) Would such apprehension include chasing the suspect, including speeding if the suspect is speeding?
3) From what I’ve heard, suspect half-turned and the officers thought he was pointing a gun at them, at which point the officers fired their weapons. Are they not allowed to protect themselves from weapons fire? BTW - follow up stories with suspect’s family confirms that he never leaves home without a gun.
4) The officers did not believe that they hit suspect, therefore did not bother with paperwork regarding the firing of their weapons because it was such a pain to do so. Does this failure to file paperwork constitute a “cover up” of their shooting the suspect? Or is it an administrative issue cleared up by filing the paperwork and receiving an official reprimand? Does it justify the lengths gone to by the US Attorney and the jail sentences involved?
After waking up this morning to no electricity, I made my way (quite late) to work, when I had a blowout on the Katy Freeway at the Beltway. There’s no shoulder there, so I couldn’t safely change the tire.
I needed a tow to get off the freeway and into a parking lot so I could change the thing. While I was on the phone with AAA, a Safe Clear wrecker and a Metro cop came. Both informed me that, since there was no shoulder, my tow would be enforced by law, and it would cost me $140.
# 26, on your subject of Houston police. I left apartment 8:30, one police car, one ambulance and one fire truck, across the way. Later, drove back and now, 2 police cars, 2 Harris County Medical
Examiner white vans are there. For one crazy lady that OD’d. But, we do not have security for the complex. Things are not how they seem.
I took my facts from a statement by the Attorney General - they violated protocal - they initiated the chase - they used excessive speed and manuevers - he was unarmed - he was shot in the lower back and buttocks - witnessess say they officers never identified themselves or why he was being pulled over and here is Tony Snow
“Snow said he couldn’t comment about the specifics of pardons. But he said Schlafly’s reference should include the details, how “according to the facts presented in court, you had an incident in which there was an attempt to pull somebody over. He finally got pulled over; somebody holds out a gun. Sort of scuffling ensues. And what happens is you’ve got a fellow running away, and a couple of agents eventually in pursuit, firing 14 shots at him – I think 15, actually. Fourteen by one agent missed, one did strike him in the fleshy hindquarters.”
At that point yet, Snow noted, the agents “did not know if he was an illegal. They did not know that there were 700 pounds of marijuana …”
“They also have rights of appeal. So I don’t want to be acting here as – I’m not going to be judge and jury, but I do think that there’s been a characterization that somehow the government is turning a blind eye toward the law in enforcing the law. And … I think that’s the important thing. So take a look at the facts of the case.”
Does this failure to file paperwork constitute a “cover up” of their shooting the suspect?
Not knowing enough about the facts of the case to address the other issues you bring I will address this ione.
Everytime a LEO even withdraws his weapon from his holster while on duty, paperwork is required. It is especially so if he discharges his weapon…whether he hits anything or not. Every LEO knows this, and they know the seriousness of not reporting those incidents to thier superiors.
At the very least, they should be punished for that–and very severly, IMO. Whether the other facts in the case points indicates that their failure to do so was an attempt at a cover up, I’ll leave that to others to debate.
As far as shooting the man in the back versus his turning and appearing to point a gun—the LEOs themselves negated that as a defense by not reporting the discharge of their weapon and an investigation by thier superiors of the incident. No crime scene and no investigation—no evidence to back up a defense of self defense, there fore the testimony given on both sides gets equal weight—which means it can’t be used to prove guilt OR innocence.
When we, as a society, put weapons in the hands of employees of the government and give them permission to kill citizens, we need to put some very, very severe restrictions on that and we need to monitor it very, very closely.
Where did you get so much info on the details of this incident?
“Its harsh, it seems unfair - were they protecting America or were they committing murder - we don’t know this was very very unusual for them to persue someone without probable cause some speculations run wild but with drugs involved anyone could be as well”
I’m having trouble understanding your above comments.
Would you please clarify?
In the beginning of your post you seem to agree with their harsh prison sentence.
“The fact that they lied to cover up their criminal involvement and destroyed the crime seen is why they are getting the book thrown at them”
google anything with this but read what the attornye general says not some lets give 12000 border agents the right to shoot to kill and then pick up shell casings and say he went for a gun story
First let me say - Sorry for the long post. That being said:
#48 EPJ
I don’t know where you got your version of this story - nor do I know what the officers knew and/or believed. Here’s what they said about the incident, in the first interview they gave after their trial - after months of not commenting, on advice of counsel.
Article Launched 08/06/2006 12:00:00 AM PDT
On Feb. 17, 2005, Compean was monitoring the south side of a levee road near the Rio Grande on the U.S.-Mexico border in Fabens when he spotted a suspicious van driving down the north end of the road. He called for backup.
Ramos headed to Fabens, where he thought he could intercept the van at one of only two roads leading in and out of the small town.
Another agent was already following the van — with Aldrete-Davila at the wheel — when Ramos arrived.
Ramos and the other agent followed the van through the center of town until it turned back toward the Rio Grande, which marks the border between Mexico and the United States. Aldrete-Davila, unable to outrun the agents, stopped his van on a levee, got out and started running. Compean was waiting for him on the other side of the levee.
“We both yelled out for him to stop, but he wouldn’t stop, and he just kept running,” Ramos said.
Aldrete-Davila made his way through a canal, and Ramos could hear Compean yelling for Aldrete-Davila to stop, he said. "At some point during the time where I’m crossing the canal, I hear shots being fired," Ramos said. “Later, I see Compean on the ground, but I keep running after the smuggler.”
Through the thick dust, Ramos watched as Aldrete-Davila turned toward him, pointing what appeared to be a gun.
“I shot," he said. "But I didn’t think he was hit, because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it. Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn’t look like he had been hit at all.”
The emphasis was added by me - this was the first time I read or heard that there had been a scuffle, and that one of the officers was on the ground, when the other officer came upon him. I do not pretend to know what was in these men’s minds however, if I ran past a fellow officer who was on the ground,after hearing him yell for the suspect to stop, then having heard shots fired, if I thought I saw that suspect turn towards me with something shiney in his hands - I might just have shot at him too - and I have trouble believing, under those circumstances, that most of us here might not have done the same.
I’m trying to explain that these two fired shots, pulled someone over without authority. brandished weapons, beat the suspect, fired on him numerous times and then lied to their superiors
Yes they are agents - it seems harsh they could go to jail for 20 years
But is their more to the story
Me it stinks
Lots of agents and sherrifs and politicians have taken bribes on the border or were looking to rob drug dealers and coyotes of their cash
From what I’ve heard, I don’t really trust the AG’s office. I will find him more believable when the affidavits mentioned in court are provided for public consumption as part of the court record. Snow is quoting what he’s been fed from the AG, remember.
I got my version from the Attorney generals statement
not a convicted criminal - they are not agents anymore they are felons
We need to be reminded that 11,996 Border Patrol agents did NOT pull some over, beat him, threaten him, fire 15 rounds at him, pick up shell casings, lie about it to their superiors and to the judge and the jury and get convicted
Thats all, based upon that I’m skepitcal to turn these two into a border incident.
We can all argue the pros and cons of the perils of guarding the border — making these two into folklore heroes is probably NOT a good idea
you all realize I’m feeding you bits an pieces to show the absolute absurdity of some media claims that these two are cases of misjustice
Tony Snow continues:
”
The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Texas issued a statement in September arguing “the defendants were prosecuted because they had fired their weapons at a man who had attempted to surrender by holding his open hands in the air, at which time Agent Compean attempted to hit the man with the butt of Compean’s shotgun, causing the man to run in fear of what the agents would do to him next.”
The statement said, “Although both agents saw that the man was not armed, the agents fired at least 15 rounds at him while he was running away from them, hitting him once.”
Snow followed up after the press briefing by faxing 12 pages of comment about the case of the border guards, including the statement from U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, as well as a guest column he wrote for the El Paso Times in October.
“Agents Compean and Ramos were not railroaded by some over-zealous prosecutor, they were unanimously found guilty by a jury in a United States federal district court after a trial that lasted more than 2 ½ weeks,” he wrote in the newspaper. “The problem for Mr. Compean and Mr. Ramos is that the jury did not believe their stories because they were not true.”
“In America,” he wrote, “law-enforcement officers do not get to shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false. That is a crime and prosecutors cannot look the other way.”
#66 - I’m curious who these witnesses were. Could you elaborate who they were? They weren’t the drug runners waiting on the other side of the border who picked up the fleeing drug runner were they?
The link that I provided is to the article that has more information. Other agents were at the site at the end - including supervisors, who “knew shots were fired.” One agent picked up his brass, the other said he didn’t. I don’t pretend to know what happened - all I know is that it seems reasonable to me for the officers (or former officers, if you prefer) to be allowed to remain out on bond while awaiting their appeal.
Yeah.. in war you’d better consult your lawyers to make sure you can shoot the enemy. This drug smuggler illegal alien was an enemy and should have expected to get shot doing his “job no american will do”. We should be protecting our border with force and using all means necessary. Militarize the border now! Shoot the invaders. That’ll be the only way to stop the flow.
Eric: you’re an illegal-alien apologist, so I can’t give very much credence to your view, or “facts” you find.
The hearing Tuesday grew heated when Assistant U.S. Attorney Debra Kanof accused the agents and their families of having orchestrated the public support that led to the promise by several House and Senate members to hold a hearing. “The defendants went to (the) press and got attention by not telling the whole truth,” Kanof said. Some family members like Joe Loya, Ramos’ father-in-law, were incensed.
“She’s the one who fabricated lies,” he said after the hearing. “This case is based on the allegations of a drug smuggler and she repeated his lies.”
Except for the witnessess - they were tried in a texas court and found unanimously guilt on 11 of 12 counts after the feds decided to not pursue attempted murder charges
Umm, I don’t think a border jury would be impartial to these border agents. There are statements of evidence not provided upon request. These witnesses have not been named (at least I have not heard who they are). US Congressmen have been stonewalled in their requests for this information. Your post is the first time that I heard about any hands in the air.
I may be wrong, but I don’t think we have all the facts and as of right now, I don’t think these men got a fair trial. There is something else going on here, and I’m leaving to get a a clothespin for my nose.
You are giving the side of the Federal Prosecutor. The statement you give as facts are not in evidence. The Story given by the Border patrol is 180 degrees out from the prosecutors version.
The Federal Prosecutor has promised to release the proof he claims to have but for several months now he has failed to do so.
I say he either produces the evidence or I have to believe the Border Patrol Agents and I want them released.
*Ahem* - from ‘DJ’s department of DO something rather than just BLOG about it’…………….
Here’s a handy link that allows us to send FREE faxes on a wide variety of issues (no way of knowing if the receive tray on the other end hovers over a huge shredder or not). Check it out!
A witness heard someone yell “hit him, hit him” and then Compean shouted for the fleeing criminal to stop. Officer Compean could have shot him at close range. Instead, he refrained from deadly force by using the butt of his shotgun. A struggle ensued with Officer Compean ending up on the ground with dirt in his eyes, rendering the Officer vulnerable and at risk. Officer Ramos, seeing his partner laying bloodied on the ground, only then shot at the assailant as he ran toward the border. The fleeing criminal was wounded in the buttocks as he raced away from the altercation. After the incident the officers did not report the discharging of their weapons and failure to do so was a violation of standard operation procedures. Furthermore, they attempted to conceal this mistake, which dug them in even deeper.
In his own words he admitted to tampering with the crime scene
Now remember before you flame up folks - this is the words of now a convicted felon on 11 out of 12 by a white jury in Texas
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_4141562
” shot,” he said. “But I didn’t think he was hit, because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it. Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn’t look like he had been hit at all.”
again stated that he picked up his casings and did not file a report
Seven other agents were on the scene by that time. Compean had already picked up his shell casings. Ramos did not, though he failed to report the shooting.
“The supervisors knew that shots were fired,” Ramos said. “Since nobody was injured or hurt, we didn’t file the report. That’s the only thing I would’ve done different.”
Eric–
My concern with the actions of my congressman as reported by Congressman Ted Poe this morning on state–wide radio.
I am not here to argue the case.
I am questioning my congressman’s actions and decisions and expect a non-political response.
That anyone could get 50 normally spineless pieces of congressional manure to sign their names to a document requesting a review of this case speaks for itself.
Go to bed, Eric….it’s late over there, and you are tired again.
No they havent been stonewalled they are posturing for political attention, remember if you and I are hearing about their concern for a case on the news they arn’t concerned just politiking
Lots of good work gets done 99% out of the medias spotlight
they just want to be P%V on the latest flavor of the month
Ted Poe should keep his mouth shut until he knows the facts
Like he did in the Save our Spring crap that almost blew up in his face about the Grand Parkway
Dan ran from that too
Reality and truth is these two people tried to kill a stranger, without probable cause and beat him and shot him in the back they tried to kill him he was unarmed.
Please leave off the “these are convicted criminals” stuff! We are discussing whether this conviction is valid…we here have not decided whether they are rightfully labeled felons. Just because a jury of 12 people in a border town whom are reasonably expected to be anti-BP convicted them on the basis of evidence yet to be provided to the public (does it exist?) does not automatically mean these men are guilty. Provide the evidence to quiet the unrest, and our arguments will cease. Depending upon a probably-biased jury on unknown evidence from an AG that we now do not trust…get the picture?
If you were unlawfully convicted, would you consider yourself a felon? Would you want someone to listen to your side of the story to correct an injustice? Or are we supposed to assume automatically that you are some knuckle-dragging Neanderthal scum-sucking piece of trash that couldn’t possibly be right about anything?
Its being reviewed the Whitehouse fazed a 12 page analysis of the case two every media outlet its interesting no one has picked up the cause the Bush is prosecuting the border based on this document
Or maybe these two are not poster board material
Look this does not change the border controversy or the arguments for and against this is a case of two people trying to kill a drug runner before they had the legal clearance
Or were they trying to rob him or grab his stash - its happened before
Shell casings from weapons discharged at the scene of a crime are evidence. The discovery of illegal drugs in the van made the area a crime scene–not necessarliy the shooting or the wounding, but everything at the scene is evidence nevertheless.
Removing shell casings from a crime scene is tampering with evidence, and that is a serious crime. Not filing an incident report after discharge of a weapon by a LEO is a serious breach of the public trust.
Without the indcident reports, a crime scene, and evidence, these guys brought the whirlwind down on themselves as sson as a witness to the shooting showed up–no matter how credible that witness may or may not have been. There was absolutely noting on the record at that time that they could point to in their defense.
It may be ironic that it was thier own actions that removed the evidence and on the scene testimony that would have resulted from an immediate investigation that following procedure would have given them, but based on what I see in the public record, that is what they did.
These procedures exist as much to protect the Officer as they do in solving crimes.
I would recommend investigation and punishment of the other LEOs on the scene that allowed this to happen because of thier own failure to file an incident report. There is not mention if there has been any adminstrative punishment or sanction of them.
They are felons awaiting sentencing duly given a fair trial and sentenced UNANIMOUSLY on all 11 contested accounts - in court they dropped the attempted murder charges
Based upon your logic Ted Bundy was awaiting appeal for weeks until his electocution he always felt he was unlawfully convicted as well
Ya’ll just remember that those agents were patrolling our borders trying to keep out everything from terrorists to worker bees. They are fighting a war according to GW.
The prosecutor is doing just as he is told..This nation is more than PC its Politically Castrated!
I would say the game is almost over. Five years from now we wil welcome the same lawlessness that mexico has had for decades.
Since you kept quoting that there were witnesses, we assumed you knew who they were. I haven’t seen the reports, and actually I must return to work. Dang.
The only 2 things I can conclude about the whole border agent thing is:
1. Those guys need a little more time at the shooting range.
2. Doesn’t this make ya wanna go out and sign up to be a border agent?
It’s amazing how people in government office can cover stuff up, lie and cheat all they want and get away with it because they know people will forget about it when the next HOT new news story comes along.
AND don’t tell me to go shopping because it’s just too cold out there.
Waving the flag being a decorated medal og Honor Heroe still doesnt give you the right to beat and then shoot an unarmed man in the back in the name of Liberty and Justice for all
Mary Stillinger, Ramos’ attorney, and Maria Ramirez, Compean’s attorney, said during the trial that every other Border Patrol agent at the scene also failed to report shots had been fired.
“Every single witness has a reason to lie,” Ramirez said, referring to the immunity granted to Aldrete-Davila and the other agents in exchange for testifying against Ramos and Compean.
Even as little kids we learned on gunsmoke you don’t shoot someone in the back
Its difficult to imagine why we would prosecute law enforcement officials - well we do because the basis of our society is that no one person is above the law
#106 Eric
Get real - what self respecting LEO would deliberately shoot anyone in the buttocks? Can you not even conceive of the idea that perhaps the dude was facing the officer as he pulled the trigger and turned away - hence getting the booty shot?
My understanind was that it was the shooting victim that was granted immunity. If the other LEOs were given immunity from punishment for failure to file an incident report, that indicates to me that their testimony helped the prosecution make it’s case agains the two agents. The fact that they were LEOs testifying on behalf of the prosecution against fellow LEOs speaks volumes to me.
If that is true, then claiming that all of the witnesses were illegal aliens and/or people who would offer harmful tesimony just to harm BP agents just doesn’t wash with me.
I fell its a sad day that we have to do this - I feel its a terrible injustice to the families - I wish those two were on patrol and let the little shit get away - but now I’m suspicious that they were up to no good
On one side we had 2 dedicated and decorated border patrol agents who said they shot at a criminal suspect that had a weapon. The suspects own family says he never left the house without a weapon.
On the other side we have a ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT drug dealer that claims he was beaten and shot for no reason. For his testimony he received immunity from prosecution for transporting approximately 800 pounds of weed into the United States, and possible illegal possession of a weapon. While waiting for the trial he was again caught with approximatley 800 pounds of weed and was again granted immunity from prosecution and legal residency to live and work in the United States.
We also have a Federal Prosecutor that has made a lot of statements and allegations that remain unproven and who refuses to share this additional information with congressmen attempting to determine the truth of the situation.
This Prosecutor has close ties to the Bush Administration, and the 1 congressman who may have been able to solve the matter refuses to act because he used to work for the prosecutor in question.
I am sorry but I am having a hard time with this and I believe the case should be reviewed and that the agents should remain free until such time as the review is completed.
Its difficult to imagine why we would prosecute law enforcement officials - well we do because the basis of our society is that no one person is above the law
Such condescension is becoming your hallmark, sir.
Dear Abby:
My husband is a liar and a cheat. He has cheated on me from the beginning, and, when I confront him, he denies everything. What’s worse, everyone knows that he cheats on me. It is so humiliating. Also, since he lost his job six years ago, he hasn’t even looked for a new one. All he does all day is smoke cigars, cruise around and bullshit with his buddies while I have to work to pay the bills. Since our daughter went away to college he doesn’t even pretend to like me and hints that I may be a lesbian. What should I do?
Signed, Clueless
Dear Clueless:
Grow up and dump him. Good grief, woman. You don’t need him anymore. You’re a United States Senator from New York. Act like one.
Not much thin ice here in Utah
We’re finally out of single digits. Heat wave this weekend, we’re suppose to hit 36 this Sunday.
Second
Early morning report from Fort Bend County.
COLD - the blankets covering the plants are frozen stiff. 32F but no snow as of yet.
Just tried to get these 3 big, gruff dogs to go outside to do their “bizness” with the promise of letting them right back in. I opened the door, they cocked their heads and looked at me as if to ask, “Are you CRAZY?!” and flopped back down to sleep.
My dogs ain’t dumb - good idea…
Hope everyone stays warm and safe too.
When you’re skating on ice too thin to take it
You got to move fast or else you break it
So throw back your hair and feel the wind rush by
And you’re alive
No ice. It’s a balmy 34 degrees at ZillaCo™ headquarters.
Only ice here is in my freezer!
It’s a lovely 30 degrees with a steady rain falling here in Cut-N-Shoot… although it’s not falling too far - only as far as the first inanimate object it hit, which it then decorates with lovely little icicles.
Hmmmm… Looks like my trip to Dallas could get canceled today…
Mornin yall - still relatively dry in Katy (my Bama Belle’s mojo is really workin well!)
Cold here in Tomball, lovely icecicles forming along the roof edges. Still to dark to see the roads, but TISD is closed so I’m off today.
Hope Dan put a shiver down the spins of those politicians.
I went ahead and hitched the huskies to the sled and lumbered on into work this morning. Nothing but cold rain all the way in.
Kids are out of school today, but am I allowed to stay home in bed rather than brave the perilous journey to Tomball? Nooooooooooo.
I had to come in to work early so my boss could call me and ask if it was safe to come in to work. The really funny thing is he is Canadian, so should be more comfortable with driving in cold weather.
Mornin all. 32 degrees here at Katy Frwy and Tollway.
This article reminded me of the anchor baby problem we have here.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/01/17/070117071301.j83ohyi5.html
michael mccall, cronyn, boosh and the suttons conspired to make sure the two border patrol agent go to jail for stopping a drug smuggler as well as an illegal alien. Please notify your representatives about this.
I will donate money to the Democrat that brings impeachment charges against boosh for any reason.
I’ll donate money to ANY politician that can have the charges against these two American heros dismissed.
rj
#15 Phillipines will not allow females to enter appearing to be 6+ months prego…what a concept!
sidenote: Thailand will deny entry if you have a “hippy-like appearance”
The only people on “thin ice” is our government and their lack of actions addressing our problems.
So it looks like many of the Democrats and Conservatives can finally all agree on impeaching Bush. However, if the Democrats impeach Bush on a border issue, won’t they then have to do something about the border to not lose credibility?
Michael McCall was part of that?
Anyone see Cragg Hines column about capital punishment? He was boo-hoo-ing that Barzan Ibrahim (Saddam’s half brother and chief of the secret police) was decapitated while being hung and using it to rail against Texas’ death penalty.
I wrote him to ask when he’ll speak out against abortion, since the innocent unborn are crushed and dismembered far more cruelly than Ibrahim was, and that there are 20,000 abortions in the U.S. per week versus 1 capital punishment.
(P.S. I’m not trying to pile on those who have been involved in abortions. There is hope, forgiveness and healing in Jesus. But abortion is evil and people need to hear the truth about it).
These days Democrats and credibility do not compute; the Repubs need to be very careful they do not follow suit. Hooray for Ted Poe and John Culberson.
I hate cold weather when it gets this cold, but I have to go to work since I deal with mortuary services (job security). I talked to some people in Illinois and New Mexico and Oklahoma yesterday and they told me the death toll is up in their areas. Not a good situation with this bad weather.
Working from home again. I may go to the office later today … maybe. At least we will not have to go to Austin till next week.
Our kids are in clas right now, behind me. Ha ha ha.
They are doing a reading aloud: Ivanhoe.
They finished going through a list of terms prior to the reading. The question of the day: how is fuedalism different than a “real property” (title in fee) tax system? Or share cropping, for that matter?
Can you believe the Chronicle with this police overtime thing? A lot of this time is due to court time. Most DWI cases are heard on Mondays since it makes it hard on the officer. The DWI officer works on the night shift, court is at 8:00 in the morning. He or she has to be there. What they have is a quiet room at the Court House where the officer can go and sleep until they are called.
Now compound this with traffic court and other district court cases and a working officer will get quite a bit of overtime.
The City of Houston has ignored the need for additional officers for years. HPD is even lowering their standards to try and hire more officers. Other agencies are following their lead.
The answer in all areas of the State is to increase the pay and incentives so you can hire quality officers.
OH! I’m sorry that would mean higher taxes.
21 luv2hammer
Edd Hendee on the radio this morning blew the lid on a tale of lying by omission and highly suspect relationships among the prosecutor in the case, Cornyn, McCall, Alberto Gonzales and members of the Bush gubernatorial administration.
Here’s to hoping LST will cover the story on its front page. If not, this story “has legs” and will appear elsewhere.
I have sent the following email to McCaul (my congressman):
Here it is:
#26
Why should better police protection necessarily mean a tax increase? What we need is a real business like approach to government that would allow us to fund the priorities before funding all of the do nothing, feel good social programs. Everyone out here knows that the City of Houston waste at least $1.00 out of every 4.
I believe that the City of Houston has the monetary resources to fully fund all necessary City services.
Since Alberto Gonzales and a U.S. Attorney is implicated in this scandal, we cannot hope to get any help out of the Dept. of Justice.
However, the Dems are in power now. Perhaps there is a silver lining in every dark cloud.
Be prepared, though; past history indicates this type of scandal can drag on for years.
New proposed telephone greeting for the federal gov’t. agencies.
“GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES (dept.)
“Press “1″ if you speak English.”
“Press ‘2′ to disconnect until you can.
Laura Ingraham is talking to Senator Ted Poe now.
Poe and Ingraham are discussing the case, but the interrelatedness of the people involved has not been brought up.
/spits
Postman never made it to the house yesterday and when I went out to pick up the paper this morning the flag was still up on the mailbox and it was frozen shut. (Huh?)
32
I’m not sure that Laura is aware of all the connections. Ted poe was on Edd’s show this morning and certainly knows the story, but he may not be in a position to make the same case concerning one of his colleagues that Edd did….YET.
Congressman McCaul is my represenative. I have written him requesting his very public involvement an explanation of why the Border Patrol Agents, and the Deputy should remain in Jail or his best efforts to free them. I want a PUBLIC airing of all the facts.
I will also be contacting both Texas Senators who have also been neglegent in checking the facts in what I consider unjust prosecutions and convictions.
Malcolm…LOL…I knew it was you without even looking at your name. Let’s see if we can get the Feds to revamp their voicemail prompts. Write or call your congressman/woman’s office.
A bunch of slackers at my place of employment. We’re sitting at about 15% attendance.
For those of you that did not hear Edd’s show….here is a synopsis:
Congressman McCaul organized a meeting to discuss the case. Poe, Culberson and another congressman was in attendance. Others were also present. A case was made that the prosecution was clean, and that written testimony was available that the two BP agents had “set out to kill some illegals that day.” Such documentation has never been produced upon request.
McCaul used to be employed by the prosecutor in the case. The prosecutor’s father apparently was high-up in the Bush transition team, as was Cornyn. Cornyn, a former judge, has completely refused to help get an airing of the developments in this case. Alberto Gonzales was Governor Bush’s man in Mexico.
At the meeting, McCaul never revealed to his Congressional colleagues that he had a close relationship with the prosecutor.
These nature of these relationships become very significant if you familiarize yourself with the details of the prosecution (I urge you to do so) of these two Border Patrol agents, who entered federal prison today. The drug dealer that was shot is free and avoided subsequent drug arrests so he could be available to testify against the agents.
This thing stinks from top to bottom. I’m sure that this goes much deeper that what we have heard until now. I think this will get pretty nasty before the end.
Most importantly, Congressman McCaul CHAIRED the subcommittee which sould have investigated this case. The outcry to do so has been going on for months. As chairman, he chose to do nothing about this matter, including issuing subpoenas which could have easily cleared this whole matter up and save his embattled former-employer-US Attorney friend alot of grief.
It appears that there are no such documents to be subpoenaed and the Congressman may be running a cover operation for his friend, instead.
I encourage everyone in McCauls district to contact his office and respectfully request that he act quickly and publically to resolve this matter. If enough of us do this he will feel the need to act or risk upsetting a significant percentage of his voting base.
I urge Every Texas to write to both of our State Senators. We have seen Cornyn change course before when enough people contacted his office demanding action.
McCaul not only chose to do nothing about this case in his capacity as chairman of the relevant subcommittee he—in setting up this meeting with concerned congressional colleagues—may have had a role in attempting to divert them off-course (”calling the dogs off”, so to speak).
Don’t you guys know there is a war going on?!
Bush and/or his underlings have more than a passing relationship with each of the players in this story.
The president ignored the appeal of 50 Congressmen and 200,000 petitioners (20,000 who were Texans) to pardon these Border Patrol agents and investigate their highly questionable prosecution.
#41 Shannon, since his chairmanship has expired, who is the Democrat who has assumed that position?
44 SC
Not sure, but don’t you know he/she would love to bring down what he/she would surely refer to as the Texas/Mexico/Bush Mafia Justice Department???????
#45 No doubt.
#43
Shannon,
At the time they did not know he was a drug dealer or a criminal - they violated their rules of engagement - they used excesive speed, they persued on foot and then for all law enforcement officers - they shoot him in the back and could have very well killed him
the fact that he turned out to be a drug dealer is irrelevant
The fact that they lied to cover up their criminal involvement and destroyed the crime seen is why they are getting the book thrown at them
Its harsh, it seems unfair - were they protecting America or were they committing murder - we don’t know this was very very unusual for them to persue someone without probable cause some speculations run wild but with drugs involved anyone could be as well
#22 HomerJ
in re Cragg Hines: Stupid is as stupid does, or in Hines’ case, as stupid writes.
# 26, on your subject of Houston police. I left apartment 8:30, one police car, one ambulance and one fire truck, across the way. Later, drove back and now, 2 police cars, 2 Harris County Medical
Examiner white vans are still there. For one crazy lady that OD’d. But, we do not have security for the complex. Things are not how they seem.
#47 Eric
I’m in and out (a lot) today due to work, but your post caught my eye. I don’t know about the BP ROE, but can someone answer these questions?
1) Whether he was a known drug dealer or not, if they knew he came in from a remote location (as was discussed this morning), are they not supposed to try to apprehend?
2) Would such apprehension include chasing the suspect, including speeding if the suspect is speeding?
3) From what I’ve heard, suspect half-turned and the officers thought he was pointing a gun at them, at which point the officers fired their weapons. Are they not allowed to protect themselves from weapons fire? BTW - follow up stories with suspect’s family confirms that he never leaves home without a gun.
4) The officers did not believe that they hit suspect, therefore did not bother with paperwork regarding the firing of their weapons because it was such a pain to do so. Does this failure to file paperwork constitute a “cover up” of their shooting the suspect? Or is it an administrative issue cleared up by filing the paperwork and receiving an official reprimand? Does it justify the lengths gone to by the US Attorney and the jail sentences involved?
I would just like to say:
Thank you, Mayor White!
After waking up this morning to no electricity, I made my way (quite late) to work, when I had a blowout on the Katy Freeway at the Beltway. There’s no shoulder there, so I couldn’t safely change the tire.
I needed a tow to get off the freeway and into a parking lot so I could change the thing. While I was on the phone with AAA, a Safe Clear wrecker and a Metro cop came. Both informed me that, since there was no shoulder, my tow would be enforced by law, and it would cost me $140.
Thank you, Mayor White!
# 26, on your subject of Houston police. I left apartment 8:30, one police car, one ambulance and one fire truck, across the way. Later, drove back and now, 2 police cars, 2 Harris County Medical
Examiner white vans are there. For one crazy lady that OD’d. But, we do not have security for the complex. Things are not how they seem.
TedTam
I took my facts from a statement by the Attorney General - they violated protocal - they initiated the chase - they used excessive speed and manuevers - he was unarmed - he was shot in the lower back and buttocks - witnessess say they officers never identified themselves or why he was being pulled over and here is Tony Snow
“Snow said he couldn’t comment about the specifics of pardons. But he said Schlafly’s reference should include the details, how “according to the facts presented in court, you had an incident in which there was an attempt to pull somebody over. He finally got pulled over; somebody holds out a gun. Sort of scuffling ensues. And what happens is you’ve got a fellow running away, and a couple of agents eventually in pursuit, firing 14 shots at him – I think 15, actually. Fourteen by one agent missed, one did strike him in the fleshy hindquarters.”
At that point yet, Snow noted, the agents “did not know if he was an illegal. They did not know that there were 700 pounds of marijuana …”
“They also have rights of appeal. So I don’t want to be acting here as – I’m not going to be judge and jury, but I do think that there’s been a characterization that somehow the government is turning a blind eye toward the law in enforcing the law. And … I think that’s the important thing. So take a look at the facts of the case.”
Not knowing enough about the facts of the case to address the other issues you bring I will address this ione.
Everytime a LEO even withdraws his weapon from his holster while on duty, paperwork is required. It is especially so if he discharges his weapon…whether he hits anything or not. Every LEO knows this, and they know the seriousness of not reporting those incidents to thier superiors.
At the very least, they should be punished for that–and very severly, IMO. Whether the other facts in the case points indicates that their failure to do so was an attempt at a cover up, I’ll leave that to others to debate.
As far as shooting the man in the back versus his turning and appearing to point a gun—the LEOs themselves negated that as a defense by not reporting the discharge of their weapon and an investigation by thier superiors of the incident. No crime scene and no investigation—no evidence to back up a defense of self defense, there fore the testimony given on both sides gets equal weight—which means it can’t be used to prove guilt OR innocence.
When we, as a society, put weapons in the hands of employees of the government and give them permission to kill citizens, we need to put some very, very severe restrictions on that and we need to monitor it very, very closely.
#48;
Where did you get so much info on the details of this incident?
“Its harsh, it seems unfair - were they protecting America or were they committing murder - we don’t know this was very very unusual for them to persue someone without probable cause some speculations run wild but with drugs involved anyone could be as well”
I’m having trouble understanding your above comments.
Would you please clarify?
In the beginning of your post you seem to agree with their harsh prison sentence.
“The fact that they lied to cover up their criminal involvement and destroyed the crime seen is why they are getting the book thrown at them”
Toward the end you sound unsure.
rj
High Noon just across the Brazos from Richmond, 32.4 degrees (digital thermometer) and ice is melting. Low of 30 last night. No snow, drat.
It does not make any sense for the 2 Border Patrol officers to go to prison at all for what they did. Where is Justice?
rj
google anything with this but read what the attornye general says not some lets give 12000 border agents the right to shoot to kill and then pick up shell casings and say he went for a gun story
First let me say - Sorry for the long post. That being said:
#48 EPJ
I don’t know where you got your version of this story - nor do I know what the officers knew and/or believed. Here’s what they said about the incident, in the first interview they gave after their trial - after months of not commenting, on advice of counsel.
The emphasis was added by me - this was the first time I read or heard that there had been a scuffle, and that one of the officers was on the ground, when the other officer came upon him. I do not pretend to know what was in these men’s minds however, if I ran past a fellow officer who was on the ground,after hearing him yell for the suspect to stop, then having heard shots fired, if I thought I saw that suspect turn towards me with something shiney in his hands - I might just have shot at him too - and I have trouble believing, under those circumstances, that most of us here might not have done the same.
rj
I’m trying to explain that these two fired shots, pulled someone over without authority. brandished weapons, beat the suspect, fired on him numerous times and then lied to their superiors
Yes they are agents - it seems harsh they could go to jail for 20 years
But is their more to the story
Me it stinks
Lots of agents and sherrifs and politicians have taken bribes on the border or were looking to rob drug dealers and coyotes of their cash
These two fit the hollywood profile real well
From what I’ve heard, I don’t really trust the AG’s office. I will find him more believable when the affidavits mentioned in court are provided for public consumption as part of the court record. Snow is quoting what he’s been fed from the AG, remember.
BSue
I’m asking because I do not know:
1. Was there an incident report filed?
Comments above by persons sympathetic to the officers indicate that there was none.
2. Did they pick up thier shell casings as Eric alleges?
Bsue
I got my version from the Attorney generals statement
not a convicted criminal - they are not agents anymore they are felons
We need to be reminded that 11,996 Border Patrol agents did NOT pull some over, beat him, threaten him, fire 15 rounds at him, pick up shell casings, lie about it to their superiors and to the judge and the jury and get convicted
Thats all, based upon that I’m skepitcal to turn these two into a border incident.
We can all argue the pros and cons of the perils of guarding the border — making these two into folklore heroes is probably NOT a good idea
Anybody know a good website to show me state wide road closing??
I am wanting to navigate to Houston from Austin.
63 sarge
It came out in the trial they are convicted there were witnessess that these two were unaware of that saw the whole thing
The Attorney general was pretty convinced as was Tony Snow that these two had their day in court.
More on this
you all realize I’m feeding you bits an pieces to show the absolute absurdity of some media claims that these two are cases of misjustice
Tony Snow continues:
”
The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Texas issued a statement in September arguing “the defendants were prosecuted because they had fired their weapons at a man who had attempted to surrender by holding his open hands in the air, at which time Agent Compean attempted to hit the man with the butt of Compean’s shotgun, causing the man to run in fear of what the agents would do to him next.”
The statement said, “Although both agents saw that the man was not armed, the agents fired at least 15 rounds at him while he was running away from them, hitting him once.”
Snow followed up after the press briefing by faxing 12 pages of comment about the case of the border guards, including the statement from U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, as well as a guest column he wrote for the El Paso Times in October.
“Agents Compean and Ramos were not railroaded by some over-zealous prosecutor, they were unanimously found guilty by a jury in a United States federal district court after a trial that lasted more than 2 ½ weeks,” he wrote in the newspaper. “The problem for Mr. Compean and Mr. Ramos is that the jury did not believe their stories because they were not true.”
“In America,” he wrote, “law-enforcement officers do not get to shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false. That is a crime and prosecutors cannot look the other way.”
We dont need any stinking border patrol.
GW is taking care of us.
The two agents should not have done anything.
They are probably fall guys for not listening to orders of “do nothing”. You know the do nothing orders our military have on the border?
#66 - I’m curious who these witnesses were. Could you elaborate who they were? They weren’t the drug runners waiting on the other side of the border who picked up the fleeing drug runner were they?
The link that I provided is to the article that has more information. Other agents were at the site at the end - including supervisors, who “knew shots were fired.” One agent picked up his brass, the other said he didn’t. I don’t pretend to know what happened - all I know is that it seems reasonable to me for the officers (or former officers, if you prefer) to be allowed to remain out on bond while awaiting their appeal.
Eric;
I’d still like to see a link. Picking up shell casings at the scene of a shooting incident by LEOs is a serious felony: Evidence Tampering.
If true, this does go beyond an inability to mount a defense of self defense by not filing an Incident Report.
Tony Snow sucks!
His job is to make GW and company look good.
His job is to spin aka lie.
Yeah.. in war you’d better consult your lawyers to make sure you can shoot the enemy. This drug smuggler illegal alien was an enemy and should have expected to get shot doing his “job no american will do”. We should be protecting our border with force and using all means necessary. Militarize the border now! Shoot the invaders. That’ll be the only way to stop the flow.
Eric: you’re an illegal-alien apologist, so I can’t give very much credence to your view, or “facts” you find.
more on these two fine felons (agents)
The hearing Tuesday grew heated when Assistant U.S. Attorney Debra Kanof accused the agents and their families of having orchestrated the public support that led to the promise by several House and Senate members to hold a hearing. “The defendants went to (the) press and got attention by not telling the whole truth,” Kanof said. Some family members like Joe Loya, Ramos’ father-in-law, were incensed.
“She’s the one who fabricated lies,” he said after the hearing. “This case is based on the allegations of a drug smuggler and she repeated his lies.”
Except for the witnessess - they were tried in a texas court and found unanimously guilt on 11 of 12 counts after the feds decided to not pursue attempted murder charges
#67 Eric
Umm, I don’t think a border jury would be impartial to these border agents. There are statements of evidence not provided upon request. These witnesses have not been named (at least I have not heard who they are). US Congressmen have been stonewalled in their requests for this information. Your post is the first time that I heard about any hands in the air.
I may be wrong, but I don’t think we have all the facts and as of right now, I don’t think these men got a fair trial. There is something else going on here, and I’m leaving to get a a clothespin for my nose.
Eric, could you please clarify who the witnesses to the shooting were.
The witnesses were probably illegal aliens. Just like the illegal alien witnesses that took an American citizens-Nethercotts ranch.
EricPJohnson
You are giving the side of the Federal Prosecutor. The statement you give as facts are not in evidence. The Story given by the Border patrol is 180 degrees out from the prosecutors version.
The Federal Prosecutor has promised to release the proof he claims to have but for several months now he has failed to do so.
I say he either produces the evidence or I have to believe the Border Patrol Agents and I want them released.
*Ahem* - from ‘DJ’s department of DO something rather than just BLOG about it’…………….
Here’s a handy link that allows us to send FREE faxes on a wide variety of issues (no way of knowing if the receive tray on the other end hovers over a huge shredder or not). Check it out!
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet
Sarge
Here are some there are more
http://rohrabacher.house.gov/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=50972
A witness heard someone yell “hit him, hit him” and then Compean shouted for the fleeing criminal to stop. Officer Compean could have shot him at close range. Instead, he refrained from deadly force by using the butt of his shotgun. A struggle ensued with Officer Compean ending up on the ground with dirt in his eyes, rendering the Officer vulnerable and at risk. Officer Ramos, seeing his partner laying bloodied on the ground, only then shot at the assailant as he ran toward the border. The fleeing criminal was wounded in the buttocks as he raced away from the altercation. After the incident the officers did not report the discharging of their weapons and failure to do so was a violation of standard operation procedures. Furthermore, they attempted to conceal this mistake, which dug them in even deeper.
In his own words he admitted to tampering with the crime scene
Now remember before you flame up folks - this is the words of now a convicted felon on 11 out of 12 by a white jury in Texas
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_4141562
” shot,” he said. “But I didn’t think he was hit, because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it. Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn’t look like he had been hit at all.”
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52545
again stated that he picked up his casings and did not file a report
Seven other agents were on the scene by that time. Compean had already picked up his shell casings. Ramos did not, though he failed to report the shooting.
“The supervisors knew that shots were fired,” Ramos said. “Since nobody was injured or hurt, we didn’t file the report. That’s the only thing I would’ve done different.”
Eric–
My concern with the actions of my congressman as reported by Congressman Ted Poe this morning on state–wide radio.
I am not here to argue the case.
I am questioning my congressman’s actions and decisions and expect a non-political response.
That anyone could get 50 normally spineless pieces of congressional manure to sign their names to a document requesting a review of this case speaks for itself.
Go to bed, Eric….it’s late over there, and you are tired again.
Tedtam
No they havent been stonewalled they are posturing for political attention, remember if you and I are hearing about their concern for a case on the news they arn’t concerned just politiking
Lots of good work gets done 99% out of the medias spotlight
they just want to be P%V on the latest flavor of the month
Ted Poe should keep his mouth shut until he knows the facts
Like he did in the Save our Spring crap that almost blew up in his face about the Grand Parkway
Dan ran from that too
Reality and truth is these two people tried to kill a stranger, without probable cause and beat him and shot him in the back they tried to kill him he was unarmed.
Eric, who are the witnesses?
Ted Poe only reported the facts of the meeting and his inability to obtain requested documents.
Eric
Please leave off the “these are convicted criminals” stuff! We are discussing whether this conviction is valid…we here have not decided whether they are rightfully labeled felons. Just because a jury of 12 people in a border town whom are reasonably expected to be anti-BP convicted them on the basis of evidence yet to be provided to the public (does it exist?) does not automatically mean these men are guilty. Provide the evidence to quiet the unrest, and our arguments will cease. Depending upon a probably-biased jury on unknown evidence from an AG that we now do not trust…get the picture?
If you were unlawfully convicted, would you consider yourself a felon? Would you want someone to listen to your side of the story to correct an injustice? Or are we supposed to assume automatically that you are some knuckle-dragging Neanderthal scum-sucking piece of trash that couldn’t possibly be right about anything?
Shannon
Its being reviewed the Whitehouse fazed a 12 page analysis of the case two every media outlet its interesting no one has picked up the cause the Bush is prosecuting the border based on this document
Or maybe these two are not poster board material
Look this does not change the border controversy or the arguments for and against this is a case of two people trying to kill a drug runner before they had the legal clearance
Or were they trying to rob him or grab his stash - its happened before
REad the article.
Shell casings from weapons discharged at the scene of a crime are evidence. The discovery of illegal drugs in the van made the area a crime scene–not necessarliy the shooting or the wounding, but everything at the scene is evidence nevertheless.
Removing shell casings from a crime scene is tampering with evidence, and that is a serious crime. Not filing an incident report after discharge of a weapon by a LEO is a serious breach of the public trust.
Without the indcident reports, a crime scene, and evidence, these guys brought the whirlwind down on themselves as sson as a witness to the shooting showed up–no matter how credible that witness may or may not have been. There was absolutely noting on the record at that time that they could point to in their defense.
It may be ironic that it was thier own actions that removed the evidence and on the scene testimony that would have resulted from an immediate investigation that following procedure would have given them, but based on what I see in the public record, that is what they did.
These procedures exist as much to protect the Officer as they do in solving crimes.
I would recommend investigation and punishment of the other LEOs on the scene that allowed this to happen because of thier own failure to file an incident report. There is not mention if there has been any adminstrative punishment or sanction of them.
#65
DJ
Try this site they have a text version also at that site.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/travel/static_maps.htm
Could Eric please clarify who the witnesses are?
#90 Peter
He’s been asked several times, but either he won’t respond (for reasons known to him) or he doesn’t know and won’t tell us.
Eric?
TedTam
They are felons awaiting sentencing duly given a fair trial and sentenced UNANIMOUSLY on all 11 contested accounts - in court they dropped the attempted murder charges
Based upon your logic Ted Bundy was awaiting appeal for weeks until his electocution he always felt he was unlawfully convicted as well
#92 Eric
Nice try at twisting my words. We are saying that evidence has been stated but not provided. THAT is the difference between these agents and Bundy.
Peter
Witnessess are detailed in the reports including many of their fellow Border Patrol agents on duty who witnessed and disputed their account
You can research it yourself - I’m taking Shannon’s advice and going to be
Katfish
Numbersusa is fantastic.
Ya’ll just remember that those agents were patrolling our borders trying to keep out everything from terrorists to worker bees. They are fighting a war according to GW.
The prosecutor is doing just as he is told..This nation is more than PC its Politically Castrated!
I would say the game is almost over. Five years from now we wil welcome the same lawlessness that mexico has had for decades.
Thank You GW and Congress!
#88 Sarge, that’s because they were granted immunity - I believe that was also in the article to which I linked.
TedTam
Nope you said if you felt
And he felt so did thousands of other henious criminals
You don’t shoot people and lie that you didn’t even discharge your weapon - thats just stupid -
#94 Eric
Since you kept quoting that there were witnesses, we assumed you knew who they were. I haven’t seen the reports, and actually I must return to work. Dang.
emmekelley
Thank You!!!!!
The only 2 things I can conclude about the whole border agent thing is:
1. Those guys need a little more time at the shooting range.
2. Doesn’t this make ya wanna go out and sign up to be a border agent?
It’s amazing how people in government office can cover stuff up, lie and cheat all they want and get away with it because they know people will forget about it when the next HOT new news story comes along.
AND don’t tell me to go shopping because it’s just too cold out there.
I’ll try to drop by later to see what has come of all of this discussion.
Daniel,
Waving the flag being a decorated medal og Honor Heroe still doesnt give you the right to beat and then shoot an unarmed man in the back in the name of Liberty and Justice for all
Thats what criminals do
#86 tedtam
I see you’ve met Eric.
One last shot before I go….
Show us the evidence. Give it to our representatives that have been asking for it. Then, if justified, we’ll shut up.
Is it too much to ask?
/not holding breath
100
Even as little kids we learned on gunsmoke you don’t shoot someone in the back
Its difficult to imagine why we would prosecute law enforcement officials - well we do because the basis of our society is that no one person is above the law
#106 Eric
Get real - what self respecting LEO would deliberately shoot anyone in the buttocks? Can you not even conceive of the idea that perhaps the dude was facing the officer as he pulled the trigger and turned away - hence getting the booty shot?
#$96
My understanind was that it was the shooting victim that was granted immunity. If the other LEOs were given immunity from punishment for failure to file an incident report, that indicates to me that their testimony helped the prosecution make it’s case agains the two agents. The fact that they were LEOs testifying on behalf of the prosecution against fellow LEOs speaks volumes to me.
If that is true, then claiming that all of the witnesses were illegal aliens and/or people who would offer harmful tesimony just to harm BP agents just doesn’t wash with me.
Bsue
One witness - the one who was shot was granted immunity which is standard whether this was a border case or happened in Kansas City
The greater crime is attempted murder not drug running
I agree it seems a terrible world we live in but we can’t give double o liscenses to kill to thousands of federal agents
Sarge and Eric agree, but only Eric is getting hounded.
Interesting™
Bsue
He was shot at a distance he fired 15 (that they know of the scene was tampered with until they were both placed under supervision at the scene)
Had their superiors been told of their truthfull actions at the time they would have been remanded into custody that very moment
#95 DJ I wholeheartedly agree! I just sent out 6 faxes in about 2 minutes……….
Headshaker
I fell its a sad day that we have to do this - I feel its a terrible injustice to the families - I wish those two were on patrol and let the little shit get away - but now I’m suspicious that they were up to no good
they were too experienced to be drawn into this
I’m sure this investigation is not over
The Case in a nut shell
On one side we had 2 dedicated and decorated border patrol agents who said they shot at a criminal suspect that had a weapon. The suspects own family says he never left the house without a weapon.
On the other side we have a ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT drug dealer that claims he was beaten and shot for no reason. For his testimony he received immunity from prosecution for transporting approximately 800 pounds of weed into the United States, and possible illegal possession of a weapon. While waiting for the trial he was again caught with approximatley 800 pounds of weed and was again granted immunity from prosecution and legal residency to live and work in the United States.
We also have a Federal Prosecutor that has made a lot of statements and allegations that remain unproven and who refuses to share this additional information with congressmen attempting to determine the truth of the situation.
This Prosecutor has close ties to the Bush Administration, and the 1 congressman who may have been able to solve the matter refuses to act because he used to work for the prosecutor in question.
I am sorry but I am having a hard time with this and I believe the case should be reviewed and that the agents should remain free until such time as the review is completed.
106
Such condescension is becoming your hallmark, sir.
Dear Abby:
My husband is a liar and a cheat. He has cheated on me from the beginning, and, when I confront him, he denies everything. What’s worse, everyone knows that he cheats on me. It is so humiliating. Also, since he lost his job six years ago, he hasn’t even looked for a new one. All he does all day is smoke cigars, cruise around and bullshit with his buddies while I have to work to pay the bills. Since our daughter went away to college he doesn’t even pretend to like me and hints that I may be a lesbian. What should I do?
Signed, Clueless
Dear Clueless:
Grow up and dump him. Good grief, woman. You don’t need him anymore. You’re a United States Senator from New York. Act like one.
#111
Not only do you not know that they would have been place into custody at the scene, the probability is they would not have been.
Don’t forget to add that the illegal immigrant drug dealer is suing us for 5 million (?) $$$$$.
/back in lurker mode
Shakey