Account of OIG/DHS meeting
by David Benzion · 01/18/2007 6:12 pmOn September 26th, 2006, four Texas Congressman–Michael McCaul, John Culberson, Ted Poe and Kenny Marchant–attended a meeting with a representative of the Office of Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security.
The following is a full reproduction of an email sent by one of those representative’s staff members to Edd Hendee, providing their description of what transpired at the meeting. LoneStarTimes.com has redacted a few portions to protect anonymity/privacy; these redactions in no way alter the essence of the email.
From: [REDACTED STAFFER #1 @mail.house.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:30 PM
To: [REDACTED: EDD'S EMAIL ADDRESS]
Cc: [REDACTED STAFFER #2 @mail.house.gov]
Subject: Ramos and CompeanEdd,
Here is an account of the incident as told to Members and staffers during a meeting with the DHS OIG yesterday. Members in attendance were Congressmen Culberson, Poe, McCaul, and Marchant.
We have requested a court transcript from the U.S. District Court in El Paso to corroborate what we were told by the DHS IG’s office.
Account of the incident as told to us by the DHS IG:
Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean stopped a car around 1PM on 2/17/2005. The basis of the stop was because the agents wanted to ID the driver. Aldrete-Davila got out of the car with his hands up and was hit in the head with the butt of a shotgun by Compean. A scuffle insued where Compean was knocked onto the ground. Aldrete-Davila then ran and was stopped on the international boundary by both agents. He put up his hands, and when one agent brought a shotgun to shoulder level, Aldrete-Davila took off. Fifteen shots were fired. Compean fired, emptied his clip, reloaded, and fired again. He fired a total of fourteen times. Ramos fired once. Aldrete-Davila got across the border.
Based on Border Patrol policy, agents cannot pursue into Mexico. Ramos and Compean did not pursue Aldrete-Davila into Mexico.
When this occurred, Ramos and Compean did not know that Aldrete-Davila was a Mexican national illegally in the U.S. or that he was transporting marijuana.
Compean removed 9 shell casings from the scene and later removed 5 more. He then threw those shells away.
Seven Border Patrol agents arrived on the scene. None of them had heard the gunfire and Ramos and Compean did not report firing their guns. One agent noticed that Compean was dirty and asked if he wanted to file an assault report. Compean said no. It was at that point that the car was searched and 700 pounds of marijuana were found.
Several weeks later, the Mexican Consulate contacted the U.S. Consulate in Mexico saying that they have a person who claims to have been shot by a Border Patrol agent. On March 4, 2005 the U.S. Consulate contacted the U.S. Attorney.
After negotiations, Aldrete-Davila was granted immunity by the U.S. Attorney for smuggling drugs on 2/17/2005 and nothing else. As far as the DHS IG knows, Aldrete-Davila admitted to smuggling the drugs and would only enter the U.S. if an immunity was granted. He was interrogated and later taken to the hospital where a catheter which had been put in at a Mexican hospital was removed a new one was put in. The bullet had severed his urethra. After the bullet was removed, a ballistics test matched the bullet to Ramos’ gun.
After the match, the DHS IG opened an investigation. During the interrogation, Compean admitted to covering up the shell casings. The investigator is unclear as to when Ramos confessed. During questioning by the Homeland Security investigator, admitted that Aldrete-Davila did not have a weapon, that they didn’t feel threatened, and that they “Wanted to shoot a Mexican”.
The investigator that we spoke to did not know about a second load of drugs that Aldrete-Davila brought across the border or a second immunity given to him.
I spoke to Chief Deputy [REDACTED] of the [REDACTED] County Sheriff’s Department this morning. He said that the only involvement the sheriff’s office had in this case was that the two Border Patrol agents were held in their jail. Chief [REDACTED]’s phone number is [REDACTED].
Chairman Hostettler of the Judiciary Committee Immigration subcommittee said today that he will hold a hearing on this.
[NAME REDACTED]
[POSITION REDACTED]
Congressman [NAME REDACTED]
202-[NUMBER REDACTED]
UPDATED–A very well-placed source in Washington D.C. had a look at this email, asked around, and offers this feedback:
There was no immunity ever given for any second load of drugs. To our knowledge, Aldrete-Davila has not been charged with any second load.
The report telescopes how the stop was made. Another agent wanted to stop the drug dealer, and Compean and Ramos joined the chase, eventually moving into the lead position. A small point, but a different one.
There were five agents there when the chase and shooting took place– the two defendants, plus three others who went to the van. Those three testified at the trial about the encounter at the ditch.
This summary says Compean picked up all the shells and disposed of them, but at trial, one of the non-defendant agents said he witnessed the shootings and was later told by Compean to look for the other ones.
The shooting came to attention of authorities not via the Mexican consulate, but when the drug dealer’s mother complained to a friend that her son was shot. The friend told her son, who worked for DHS in Arizona, asking “Can BPs shoot somebody running away?” Son looked for circumstances, couldn’t find a report in the file, and notified the DHS inspector general.
One sentence near the end is really off base. It deals with the agents’ alleged confessions, and it reads as follows:
During questioning by the Homeland Security investigator, admitted that Aldrete-Davila did not have a weapon, that they didn’t feel threatened, and that they “Wanted to shoot a Mexican.”
In fact, they did not confess, but gave a statement attempting to explain and defend their actions. The two patrolmen said they did indeed feel threatened, and one said he thought he saw the drug dealer with a weapon in his hand. They never said they “wanted to shoot a Mexican.”
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Comment left. First!
Interesting, but, let’s face it, it’s multiple hearsay in many respects and is a staffer repeating what he had been told by somebody who was repeating what he had been told, etc.
It doesn’t fully synch with the prosecutor’s release that Benzion posted yesterday, which may not be surprising, given this is a memo repeating what had been repeated. For example, this memo seems to say that the drug smuggler was granted full immunity, while the prosector’s press release said it was only use immunity for his testimony (kinda like what Oliver North got, as I recall) and they could have prosecuted him if they had enough evidence independent of his statements.
Anyway, I’m glad to finally see where the statements about the agents saying they wanted to “Shoot a Mexican” came from. I recall there being something about alleged written confessions from these guys, but I may have misunderstood as nothing like that is mentioned here.
Keep going, Benzion. Despite your earlier pledge to stay above it all, your newshound instincts wouldn’t let you rest!!
It is a curse, RickG… a curse.
btw, it is my understanding that the staff member who wrote this email was actually in the meeting… so they aren’t “just” recounting for edd what their boss told them
This is BS. I prefer to believe our Border Patrol agents. Given Sutton’s record in prosecuting Border Patrol and Sheriff’s deputies on “civil rights violations,” this just stinks. Follow the money. Sutton is probably dirty. Why else would he prosecute more BP and deputies than drug dealers. Look at his record! My take is he is a liberal, hating all law enforcement.
The only reason Bush is looking at this is that Duncan Hunter pushed a bill to give these guys congressional pardon. They are serious. Bush should take notice.
#5 neocon
How the heck do you come up with this? Wow. First it was GWB was in cohoots with them. Now it’s Sutton is a lib’ral! Geez, Louise! He’s the guy responsible for MORE drug convictions than any other US Attorney and now he is a lib’ral, hating all law enforcement?!
Criminy (™ to sarge), Neo, is the Nyquil that strong?
Affirmative - the staff who wrote the email was in the meeting. I confirmed the claims made by the OIG with 2 of the Congressman present - Poe & Culberson personally. Both requested the documents promised - none have been produced. Clearly the OIG was intentionally misrepresenting the case to the Congressmen to have them “back off” supporting Ramos & Compean. Long after they have been pardoned - this incident needs to be investigated. Any member of Congress who either participated in this deception or allowed it to go on wihtout demanding proof should resign their position.
5
Neo, my friend:
“Sutton is probably dirty.”
Where does that come from?
Bigjolly,
With all due respect, he has a record of prosecuting BP agents and Sheriff deputies for civil rights violations. Google him if you don’t believe me. As to being a liberal, it was my conclusion, based on what he has done to law enforcement in the past. Why would he be so gung-ho to prosecute law enforcement? On the take, maybe? I for one will not stand by and take the government’s “statement” on anything. I want facts and he hasn’t supplied them. All he has given is his “check-list” of myths. No facts. I listened to Ted Poe this evening and also to Duncan Hunter. These men I respect. If they have a problem, then I want an investigation.
RickG
Defend him all you want. There are 50+ congressmen who are calling for an investigation. Duncan Hunter has sponsored a bill to get them congressional pardon. Bush is actually looking into this. Wonder’s will never cease! I never thought Bush would even give this slight attention.
9 Neo
What “facts” has Sutton not supplied that you want, and what “facts” have Poe and Hunter provided and documented? You won’t take the “government’s” word on anything. Aren’t Poe and Hunter part of the “government”?
And before you mistake me for a liberal on the take, let me say that my solution to the immigration problem is to annex Mexico, make productive use of its oil reserves and other natural resources (thus reducing our dependence on middle eastern terrorist states), and raise the standard of living for the Mexican people (which we are doing anyway through various means, including illegal immigration). Of course, I understand that this is a fantasy, much like the fantasy of those who advocate Texas secession from the union. It is sad, I’ll admit, that I hold fantasies which don’t (often) have anything to do with Angelina Jolie. The price of age.
RickG
I will not be satisfied by just want Sutton says. It is very simple. There are a lot of flaws in this case, and if there were not, then Ted Poe and Duncan Hunter would not be involved. This has always stuck in my craw and I am glad that there are some who will shine the light of day into this. I’m in the legal profession and I weigh both sides. These men did not get a good defense, IMHO. Too many loopholes that I want to close. Too many unanswered questions.
Of course, eddhendee’s drive-by posting does not tell us what was misrepresented, how Sutton is invovled in this meeting, and what the silver bullet evidence is that so convinces him of these guys’ innocence.
If he’s right, every one of us wants to see it. I don’t know a person here who wants to believe this about these officers. And all we keep getting is everybody’s opinion without documentation. Arrrrgggghhhhh.
And will someone tell me what are these documents everyone says have been requested but not provided? It can’t be that hard to answer.
By the way, it appears undisputed that the agents admitted to a cover up. I guess that is no longer a crime to some of my fellow conservatives.
12 Neo
I am also in the legal profession. I agree with you. Questions should be answered - from both sides. It will be nice when the evidence (not either side’s spin on it) is available for serfs like us to read. I’m sure you agree with that sentiment.
12
I agree. If these guys didn’t have a good defense, it needs to be looked in to. However, if they are ultimately guilty, they need to be dealt with severely. Being in the law enforcement profession, I despise officers who intentionally break the law (and I’m not talking about traffic tickets, etc.). They make all officers look bad and need to be dealt with more severely, in my opinion, than someone in the general public because of the power and trust given to an officer. Also, I was a probation officer for a short period when Ted Poe was on the bench. Don’t get me wrong, I like him. However, it seems like he only handed those odd punishments down when the media was paying attention. Just be advised, he is a politician.
CP
I think Ted Poe handed down those sentences to make a point. Yes, he wanted media attention. That was to get his point across - to let the public (and media) know that you might get some other type of punishment besides what you were looking for. He made his points and he did it very well. p.s., my firm lost a couple cases in his court but won a couple also. He is fair and honest.
RickG
#14
Yes, I agree. Hearsay evidence doesn’t do much for me! That is why I am on this bandwagon with Rep. Poe and Hunter. I will withhold my judgment until I have all the facts.
Neo,
Sutton is a United States Attorney he went before a grand jury and presented his evidence and they said there was sufficient evidence to go to trial
Sutton then went before a Jury and convinced a jury of Americans than these two violated the law and were convicted on every count (He dropped or did not pursue the attempted murder charges)
Now - we are not going to congressional review of the Justice Department
That power lies with the President they certainly can lobby the President but they can go and request a transcript just like me and Jolly did they have no more right to one than us
If its sealed you know the reason - cause its ubder judicial review awaiting appeal.
“Several weeks later, the Mexican Consulate contacted the U.S. Consulate in Mexico saying that they have a person who claims to have been shot by a Border Patrol agent. On March 4, 2005 the U.S. Consulate contacted the U.S. Attorney.”
Whoa, this is the problemo. A Mexican drug runner goes to the Mexican Consulate and claims a US Border Patrol agent shot him in the ass while illegally on the US side of the border and the Mexican Consulate has the stones to call the US consulate? And our gov investigates our people? WTF!
The US consulate should have told the Mexicans if the drug runner doesn’t want to get shot in the ass he should stop running drugs across the US border.
The US Justice Dept should have pressed charges on the drug runner and asked for his return to the US to face charges. This country is upside down and it happened under Republicans.
Note to Mexican drug running self. Border patrol agents will shoot you in the ass. Dont run drugs across the US border.
Eric
#18
And your point is….
Eric,
I thought you already had the transcript! It is what you said a day or so ago!
Transcripts are not obtained through the Judge, D’oh! They are obtained through the court reporters. Judges have no say about transcripts! Court reporters will not release the transcripts without being paid! and no, it is not 0.08 per copy! You sir, are a fraud and, may I say, a liar!
# 19 SOB of Cheese Says:
Thank You. Well said
Neo
first I didn’t say I had a transcript and described where I saw some parts of it - they are still there on the web - BigJolly asked and I simply made a phone call to the court where transcripts are help for electronic filing and also showed the link to the courthouses website where you can download it electronically
Second - Federal cases trial transcripts are not the property of a court reporter
Third
Please provide us a list of Suttons Prosecution of Border Patrol agents?
Just asking you to prove anything you have said - please give us a list of all these cases Sutton has prosecuted
Neo
Once a case is closed the Trial transcripts are published in the final documents - you are correct that trial transcripts are available daily for a fee but the courts employ the court reporters and set the fees for electronic downloads the information I got was .008 cents per page.
Eric
Bull shiite! You said you had the transcript, that you had gotten it because of your “connections.” You said you got it on-line! Bull shiite! You have never seen any part of that transcript, nor have I.
As for the resto of your #23, I am not going to feed trolls.
But this still doesn’t get you off the hook for this statement:
Given Sutton’s record in prosecuting Border Patrol and Sheriff’s deputies on “civil rights violations,” this just stinks. Follow the money. Sutton is probably dirty.
Really…..
Explain yourself Neo
Go on
Lets hear it
Eric
Go play with someone else. I’m not interested. Sorry, I don’t have a special place in my heart for trolls.
Neo
No sorry cant run and hide
I said unlike some I stick to trial transcripts - condensed by the Office of the President of the United States and distributed by Tony Snow
condensed and explained in several pres releases by the Justice Department of the United States and compiled from various news releases
You however are trying to stir up a poopy storm by claiming you have some inside information that the United States Government conspired by dirty money from Mexico to get these two “Heroes” unlawfully convicted
BigJolly went into the fray
Let me just some up that if Edd had read the Press Releases and Ted Poe had read the press releases
Now a former competent attorney John Coryn who happens to be a Senator has basically said - everyone shut up cause its still under appeal.
I’m not playing with you, you made accusations - and I’m holding you to them
Neo,
Please let us know your sources that Sutton is dirty its a serious and prosecutable accusation, if you have any direct knowledge of wrong doings by a member of the justice department it is YOUR DUTY AS A CITIZEN to immediately go to the FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION and report it immediately
Please let me know if you are doing your civic duty
Waiting NEO
PLEASE DO YOUR DUTY
Anyone else having direct evidense that the Justice Department is allowing and granting immunity to drug dealers and in the Case of Big Jolly having irrefutable evidence that the national guard retreats and doesn’t defend America need to go immediately not to your local radio station but to the FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
please no pushing
Neo
Waiting for you to go to the FBI with your information waiting….
Again did you read the press releases that statements from the Us attorney for the Western District - do you even know the names of Ramos trial attorneys?
this case was over when? When was the incident?
Here are some older stories before it was popular (the UAE port of the month club)
Neo, are you at the FBI’s 24 hour center yet?
http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2006/02/17/TopStories/Border.Shooting.Case.Continues-1618479.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dailytexanonline.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com
http://www.kvia.com/Global/story.asp?S=3123985&nav=AbC0Xtch
MR. SNOW: I just wanted to be clear on this.
Q Right. What is the White House reaction to The Washington Times reporting that our National Guard troops in the Mexican border near Sasabe, Arizona being required to be disarmed, and who had to evacuate due to incursions by armed Mexicans?
MR. SNOW: Talk to the Border Patrol about that. I don’t know.
Q But what is the White House — that’s what — I want to know what is the White House reaction?
MR. SNOW: I understand that the White House — the reaction of the press secretary is, ask the Border Patrol.
Q Okay. A nationally syndicated columnist, Phyllis Schlafly, reports the following, and this is a quote: “President Bush pardoned 16 criminals, including five drug dealers, at Christmastime, but so far has refused to pardon two U.S. Border Patrol agents who were trying to defend America against drug smugglers.” And my question: If Mrs. Schlafly was at all inaccurate in this statement, you would surely rebut, wouldn’t you?
MR. SNOW: Well, there are a couple of things. First, I’m not at liberty to comment about proceedings with regard to pardons. She’s referring to a case where, at least according to the facts presented in court, you had an incident in which there was an attempt to pull somebody over. He finally got pulled over; somebody holds out a gun. Sort of scuffling ensues. And what happens is you’ve got a fellow running away, and a couple of agents eventually in pursuit, firing 14 shots at him — I think 15, actually. Fourteen by one agent missed, one did strike him in the fleshy hindquarters. He eventually made his way into Mexico.
Now, at the time this happened, they did not know if he was an illegal. They did not know that there were 700 pounds of marijuana. They didn’t know any of those things. But instead you had this. They also had received arms training the day before that said if you have an incident like this, you must preserve the evidence and you must report it promptly. Instead, according to court documents, they went around and picked up the shell casings. Furthermore, they asked one of their colleagues also to help pick up shell casings. They disposed of them.
They eventually went before a grand jury — or before a jury — and were convicted on 11 of 12 counts, by a U.S. attorney who has prosecuted any number of cases. But the facts of this case are such that I would invite everybody to take a full look at the documented record. This is not the case of the United States saying, we are not going to support people who go after drug dealers. Of course we are. We think it’s incumbent to go after drug dealers, and we also think that it’s vitally important to make sure that we provide border security so our people are secure. We also believe that the people who are working to secure that border themselves obey the law. And in a court of law, these two agents were convicted on 11 of 12 counts by a jury of their peers after a lengthy trial at which they did have the opportunity to make their case.
Now, they also have rights of appeal. So I don’t want to be acting here as — I’m not going to be judge and jury, but I do think that there’s been a characterization that somehow the government is turning a blind eye toward the law in enforcing the law. And, Les, I think that’s the important thing. So take a look at the facts of the case.
Q I was going to answer, the only one thing is that the man that was shot in the fleshy —
MR. SNOW: Hindquarters.
Q — hindquarters, they went down to Mexico and brought him back.
MR. SNOW: To testify.
Q Yes. Even though they had found all those drugs. Now, does that — is that — does the President approve of that?
MR. SNOW: Again, that takes us into different legal grounds, and I think you ought to contact legal authorities to get it. But you asked me a different question to begin, and I gave you the answer.
Q Thank you.
Q Back on Iraq real quick. On the sectarian flare up possibility, two of the Iraqi army brigades are supposed to be mostly Kurdish, Peshmerga turned Iraqi army. They’re going to be going into Shiite neighborhoods. Then you have the Iraqi police — nine of the Iraqi police brigades, a lot of those are Shia that we had problems with before. How does the President look at this Iraqi influx and see something that is less sectarian than it was before?
MR. SNOW: Look, Iraq is a country that has Kurds, it has Shia, it has Sunnis, and it has others. And if the nation is going to work effectively, each has to have faith in the other. You have two Iraqi army brigades, not exclusively, but they do include a fair number of Kurds in both of them. The question is, do they operate effectively? Do they gain the trust and faith?
Keep in mind the model we’re talking about here, Bret, as they go into neighborhoods, and they’re there 24/7. They gain the trust of the local population by going door to door and talking with people. It’s not door to door to rouse them out, but to do confidence-building measures, and to do law enforcement, similarly with police units.
We have made absolutely clear the fact that we think that there have been real problems, corruption and violence on the part of police — and I’ve said it many times from this podium. But you have to assume that the Iraqis now understand the importance of performing. And. therefore, you need to give them a chance. You cannot say, we’re only going to send Shia into Shia neighborhoods and only Sunni into Sunni neighborhoods, because in that way, it ends up being self defeating. You have to operate in a way that’s certainly going to be sensitive and smart. But on the other hand, you have to understand ultimately the result in Iraq is going to be that all the major groups understand, appreciate, and respect the rights of one another.
Q And so the President’s confidence on this comes from his talks with Maliki, and Maliki’s confidence —
MR. SNOW: Well, you’re going to have — look, the President understands that these guys are going to have to demonstrate. And so we’re going to find out whether they’re — whether they are going to be able to fulfill their part of the — their responsibilities here.
Thank you.
Q Week ahead.
MR. SNOW: Oh, week ahead, I’m sorry. Thank you. Week ahead, week ahead, week ahead.
Q And anything on the Greek embassy?
MR. SNOW: Greek embassy, all we know is that there was something described as a rocket. I don’t know exactly what that means. It was fired through a window just next to the shield in front of the embassy, hit a toilet at a little before 6:00 a.m. Nobody was injured. I think it’s an isolated incident, and they’re investigating — the Greek government is investigating, and so is the U.S. government.
Okay, week ahead. Nothing on the public schedule for Monday.
Tuesday the President will meet in the Oval Office with the Secretary General of the United Nations. And the St. Louis Cardinals will be in the East Room; the President will greet them.
On Wednesday there will be a visit to the National Institutes of Health and a roundtable discussion there. That’s in Bethesda.
Q Topic?
MR. SNOW: Health care. National Institutes of Health.
There is travel to be announced on Thursday, and nothing at this juncture to announce on Friday. And that is the week ahead.
Q What’s the radio address about tomorrow?
MR. SNOW: Radio address is about the way forward, it’s about the —
Q Iraq?
MR. SNOW: Yes, about Iraq and the plan the President has —
Q Is there an NSC meeting tomorrow morning?
MR. SNOW: I don’t think so.
Q Why is he not doing anything on Monday on —
MR. SNOW: I didn’t say that. I just said there’s no public schedule at this juncture.
Q Why is he coming back from Camp David tomorrow?
MR. SNOW: Because he wishes to.
MS. PERINO: I think they have a private dinner on Saturday night, and Mrs. Bush leaves for Paris on Sunday.
MR. SNOW: Yes, that’s right, thank you. Private dinner on Saturday, and Mrs. Bush heads to Paris on Sunday. Thank heavens for Perino.
Q Tony, what about Secretary Rice’s trip, what the President is hoping she’ll accomplish.
MR. SNOW: I think —
Q You said, “thank you.”
MR. SNOW: Yes. Give Sean a call over at State. He’ll be able to give you a better fill on that.
END 1:23 P.M. EST
http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2006/02/17/TopStories/Border.Shooting.Case.Continues-1618479.shtml?
sourcedomain=www.dailytexanonline.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com
http://www.kvia.com/Global/story.asp?S=3123985&nav=AbC0Xtch
Some older stories on it notice Ramos
Neo, BigJolly, RickG
Notice the year old story in the Dail Texan online
the Arizona Border patrol was told of the story
They turned them in according to the Daily Texan
You people are a hoot.
Of course from the second story is my personal favorite
Ramos attorney was well not too bright when a Judge orders your client to anger management class you don’t or shouldn’t do this:
The second is 36-year-old Ignacio Ramos. Ramos has worked for the Border Patrol for the last nine years. He too is suspended without pay and is being held on a $35,000 dollar bond. Ramos was ordered to remove all weapons from inside his home and was also ordered to attend anger-management classes.
Ramos’s attorney asked the judge if an anger management class taken by Ramos within the last two years could be applied - the judge said pre-trial services would have to make that decision.
Okay so he (According to the Justice Department) had been arrested twice - given an officer unbecoming notice for his personel file and has been ordered to attend anger managment classes at least once within 2 years of the border incident where he lost it and tried to kill an unarmed man.
Oh yeah all you guys and 22 congressmen have hitched your wagon to a little star
I wish they would just build the dam fence so we can all bitch about how slow they repair all the holes in it
I’m done its a beautiful day we are playing soccer and having some middle east fun - Neo, I do care for you and your opinion - its your strong defense of things that make this country great - you too big Jolly - keep em real
Your points on the Border Neo are not diminshed by what these two did - this country’s debate and wish for a secure border transcend two fools who read one too many blogs and tried to dispence some prarie justice
The fence will be built
english will be the language of the country
And BigJolly can still call me Cliffe
I sense a divide between the founders of this site and the current management.
#39 RTG– please, do explain.
If RTG explains his posts may magically change.
I’ve seen it happen.
The bottom line for me, and why I am so steamed about this, is that they, if everyting I have read is true, went out of there way to give immunity to a person bringing drugs into this country to bring a case against these two guys. This is what makes this so unbelivable. I hear talk of anger management how bad these guys may have been. But what about the drug smuggler himself? I am sure he was just a nice guy never meaning no harm! To quote an earlier post, “if you do not want to get shot in the buttox, do not smuggle drugs into the country.” Here is an idea, let’s actually go after the drug smugglers and the bad guy’s for once!
Hey, I thought they shot him in the backside. Then how did he get the bullet through his urethra????!!!!!
#38. Don’t be rippin off my speak, cuz. “Keep it real” is strict S N double O P D O double G.
11
Don’t worry, you aren’t the only one. Angelina Jolie’s purported beauty is a hilarious joke perpetrated by the media, anyway.
Maybe I’ve missed some sarcasm in David Benz’s posts but it seems (to me and me only..not stirring the pot for no reason) that Benz has taken a view that questions the position of Patrick/ Hendee.
Like I said, maybe I’ve missed some sarcasm as I’m quite the smart a$$ myself and often times folks miss it.
Thanks David for any clarity: