Cover-up, or incompetence?
by David Benzion · 01/19/2007 5:57 amOne of two things happened here:
The Department of Homeland Security is wrongly keeping from Congress an investigative report that details the conduct of two ex-Border Patrol agents imprisoned this week for shooting a Mexican drug trafficker, two Houston-area congressmen charged Thursday.
The report is needed to back up a briefing given to the congressmen in September by the Homeland Security inspector general’s staff, said Rep. Michael McCaul, an Austin Republican whose district includes western Harris County.
McCaul said the inspector general’s aides told him and three Texas colleagues that the Border Patrol agents, Jose Alonso Compean and Ignacio Ramos, had admitted to investigators that they “intended to shoot Mexicans” and knew the man fleeing them was unarmed and posed no threat, when they fired on him 15 times near Fabens, Texas.
… McCaul has repeatedly pressed the inspector general for the report since September. An initial promise to deliver the report gave way to delays and shifting explanations for why it couldn’t be delivered, said McCaul, who chaired the Homeland Security Committee’s investigations subcommittee until Democrats regained control of the House earlier this month.
“We have been stonewalled and put off with delaying tactics over and over,” he complained.
[Tamara] Faulkner, a spokeswoman for [the Department of ] Homeland Security… declined to debate the congressmen.
She expressed puzzlement at the congressmen’s insistence on getting the report, calling it a “small, small piece of a very large puzzle.” The best source of information, she said, would be the trial transcript.
BENZION’S TRANSLATION OF FAULKNER: “Look, Congressman, I can’t help it that some dumbass on our staff got sick of listening to you guys yap at them last September and started lying in the hope you would just go away. I wish they hadn’t, because if you’ll just look at the facts of the case–as came out in the trial–you’ll see that these border patrol agents are clearly guilty. Instead, I’m stuck trying to figure out how to handle your demands for this supposed ’secret’ report. I need a drink.”
It’s either that, or this:
Rep. John Culberson, a Houston Republican also briefed on the case in September, offered a harsher assessment.
“It stinks of a cover-up, and I am deeply disappointed,” he said.
That’s what happens when you lie. It looks like you’re covering something up, even if you’re not.
And now you’ve got John Culberson and Edd Hendee as your worst nightmare.
I wonder if creating this sort of headache is a fire-able offense at DHS?
[Hat-tip: Houston Chronicle]
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Maybe this will stop it all.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/1/18/204250.shtml?s=ic
ILLEGAL ALIEN DRUG SMUGGLER - enough said, set the two border patrol agents free, exponge thier records, restore thier reputations by restoring thier careers with a promotion and back pay. Force to publicly admit he wrongfully procecuted these guys and that ILLEGAL ALIENS DO NOT HAVE CIVIL RIGHTS OR ANT OTHER RIGHTS in this country.
A glutton for punishment David?
David
I think the problem is that McCaul was pressing before they were sentenced and while the trial was going on Coryn has some words I think they were “SHUT UP” or something like that to his grandstanding collegues.
Like I said - trial transcript or now court records or newspaper accounts like I posted yesterday that had excerpts that obviously came of trial transcripts which are only held in the secret society of court reporters who have dominion over the entire Justice System in the United States but you didn’t hear it from me.
Or read the Press releases and Statements by the Western District of the United States
The Justice System obviously does not report to congress
I guess what the Press spokewoman was really saying to McCaul, culberson, and Poe is
“You are a bunch of horses ass”
But was too lady like to say so plus if Culberson had information it
“Stank of a Coverup”
Please report all findings of coverups, dirty politicians, retreating guardsmen, drug dealers influencing Bush, Perry, Me anyone to the following department
THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
Like Whited said the truth is out there and Neo claims its a dollar a page
As far as the headlines somehow garnered from this statement by the president
“Bush urged people to “take a sober look at the case.”
“People need to take a tough look at the facts, the evidence a jury looked at, as well as the judge. And I will do the same thing,” he said.
I think he is saying he already has - granted its open to interpretation
One thing to remember all you who want to declare open season on hispanics
these two felons:
They did not know if he had drugs in the car
they did not know if he was an American Citizen
According to witnesses they beat him, he ran, tried to surrender and they shot him all the time with him being unarmed
they lied numerous times
They covered up their crimes
They were found guilty by a jury of their peers
Feel free to lose focus on our Bill of Rights and so forth
As a disclaimer I am a fraudulent hispanic liar who cannot be trusted except for the facts
David, I think the case here is both possibilities are true. They are not mutually exclusive.
Eric, you desperately need to come back here and fix this mess, and others. You obviously have all the contacts and the ability. This is not a flame, just calling you out on all of your fantastic claims and in depth knowledge. Help us Obi Wan Kenobi, you’re our only hope….
Has it occurred to anyone else that it would be a wonderful thing if our congressmen and senators would expend a fraction of this time and energy on the larger and far more important border security problem ? If they will respond like this to bloggers about two Border Patrol Agents, why can they not find the time to address the 900 pound gorilla in the room ? Their actions here only serve to highlight the greater absurdity of the situation.
You know our legal system is in trouble when you take the word of a ILLGEAL, DRUG SMUGGLING ALIEN over that of personnel sworn to protect us. And what makes it worse, the problem is compounded by those responsible for overseeing our legal system. Well, persistence seems to have won out and those responsible for overseeing have started to question things. I guess they decided to overlook friendship for the “truth”.
#6 Fast,
I think you misspelled ‘Obi Juan’
texpat
****sarcasm alert****
Good point. But who whould mow their grass?
(sarcasm off…)
Eric, actually, I beleive that Congress has oversite of the Judicial branch, something about checks and balances. I find it interesting that you and the press are somehow able to get transcripts that Congressmen are having problems getting. You must be uber powerful.
Faster
Honestly, if you would look at some of my early posts in this - I wish this didn’t happen and I wished they had just reported it to their supervisors and probably would have been drummed from the force but that beats a jail sentence
I’m just reciting the facts - and disagreeing with the premise that we shoot unidentified unarmed people in the back or the ass whichever description suits
I have followed this for three reasons
1. I’m researching the border for a stupid novel no one will buy
2. I saw this report months ago, before it was the UAE PORT storm of the month, I saw some pretrial TRANSCRIPT excerpts in some either was it a Union website or Newspaper report - I posted a partial of it (fragment really) yesterday - you know quotes of what people actually said in court
3. Had NO IDEA some republicans were that stupid to hitch their wagon ie their political careers without getting their arms around at least the publically available facts that were plainly obvious
You see Prudent men and women don’t support wife beating Conduct unbecoming frequent anger manager club card holders (with two punches already he only needs three more and his next anger management session is free)
As a terrible student of politics I am continousely fascinated by the Faulty towers Game “THE BLOODY OBVIOUS” that this case may have something more too it.
but as my daughter told me the Bloody obvious is always news to someone
Even the President said “Take a Sober Look” which means put the Long necks down and actually read the stuff from a respected Texan who actually was
A. at the trial
B. got convictions
So faster here is what I would do
First encourage NEO to turn her evidence of Suttons Corruption over to the FBI this morning
Second get the good congressmen from Katy to turn his evidence over
Third organize the press conference
fourth most important SECURE THE FILM AND BOOK RIGHTS - don’t do this for free get your millions while you can
Fifth did you read Davids posts of the Statement from that Corrupt United States Attorney for the Western District?
did ya google
the truth is out there….
Cong. McCaul states that the DOJ has been “stonewalling” the efforts to have the documents released. This deal is now changing fast.
DuhMoose
I’m sad that a fair and impartial person such as yourself is willing to scrap what many died for in the revolution for freedom against tyranny for the expeidency of prarie justice
We need to rise above kicking muslims in the streets like in Serbia and beating Jews in the alleyways of Austria or killing Bantu’s cause they are not from our tribe
I’d like to think that my congressional leadership would actually show the kind of leadership and not make cheap politics out of these
If they really cared for Ramos and his partner they would have behind the scenes lobbies their democrat allies and the administration to commute their sentences
not creat a circus so now the Presidents hands are tied
If they really cared
Edd
Then he need is report it immediately to the FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
Tell em its urgent
Edd
what deal?
What deal?
Never mind Edd, you are doing what you think is right and I am doing the same
Please keep trying to get to the bottom of this
Look in all seriousness go have lunch with Sutton off the record visit his office see the young people like Dans son working there and ask yourself are they criminals or are they doing what is right for you and me
All i ask
# 13
I actually agree with you about the circus and the President’s role. This could blow up in everyone’s face. I hope that it doesn’t.
We need a clarification to find out if a Mexican drug smuggler, illegally in the US has civil rights to violate?
I wonder what would happen if a US citizen was caught by the Mexican Federales sneaking contraband into Mexico and was shot? Would Mexico go after their agents? Would the US Gov call Mexico and demand an investigation into his civil rights? Could the smuggler sue Mexico for $5 million?
The big picture here is an effort to appease Mexico at the expense of US citizens.
This is another reason why troops will never be sent to the border. Can you imagine the outcry and lawsuits from Mexico if a smuggler was shot by a Marine?
It strikes me as strange that the Investigator said he “was unclear as to when Ramos actually confessed”. You think this would be a point he would remember very clearly.
And now you’ve got John Culberson and Edd Hendee as your worst nightmare.
And Pat Gray.
Don’t leave him out. After all, he has a blog AND a podcast in addition to his KDAN gig!
Said thing is that the BP agents got railroaded regardless of what the liberals on this site are trying to say. Bottom line is 41 lied - NO NEW TAXES - READ MY LIPS. 43 is in the same boat trying to smuggle all the illegals in he can to get donations from business people plus give them SS and medicare when neither is finacially fit to continue paying out to those who have paid into the systems. Plus the lies about Iraq being for freedom BFS. 43 is worse than dad about lying to the voters. Me I am going to donate to Future Senator Poe’s campaign as I hope he replaces gutless hutch or maybe “TALKS OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF HIS MOUTH” cronyn also to the demo who brings impeachment charges against senor boosh.
And EricPJohnson does not want anyone to review the case because all these “supposed facts” that he is quoating may just turn out to be so much bull waste and he and others will look real silly.
I don’t know if these guys are guilty or not, but I do know there are enough questions and doubt to warrant an unbiased review, and now it appears that we might actually get it.
IMHO, facts are what are missing from this story. If the DHS has the signed and sworn statements from the agents, they could just release them and the matter would just go away as justice being done. As it is, there are way too many questions that aren’t being answered and supported with backup documentation.
EricPJohnson
What you claim to be “the facts” are what is dispute. You are repeating what the Federal Prosecutor says as if the Federal Prosecutor is somehow in fallable.
You also seem to be able to aquire transcripts that no one else has access to, including the radio station and congressmen.
I knew it was coming. Disagree with a Conservative and get branded a Liberal.
Glad to see things haven’t changed around here.
Lunatic Fringe
I know you’re out there
You’re in hiding
And you hold your meetings
We can hear you coming
We know what you’re after
We’re wise to you this time
We won’t let you kill the laughter
Lunatic Fringe
In the twilight’s last gleaming
This is open season
But you won’t get too far
We know you’ve got to blame someone
For your own confusion
But we’re on guard this time
Against your final solution
#22
Hmm. What do controversy, free publicity and name recognition have in common?
If I just went by Nifong’s press releases and only his ‘evidence’, I’d be asking why the Duke lacrosse players weren’t already in prison.
#29
Difference is Debra Kanof’s evidence was heard by 12 jurors with a federal judge moderating.
Oh, nevermind, those pesky facts again.
#30 bj
Exactly; don’t let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.
Did I just type that?
The world is upside down.
29
Brilliant. Thank you.
Brilliant?
These guys had a jury trial! Compare apples and apples.
bigjolly #30
Just wondering what you think about the 3 jurors that said they were pressured to vote guilty but actually believe the Agents were not guilty. They have also stated that the Judge improperly instructed them that a hung jury was not an option.
headshaker
Three of the jurors have stated that they were pressure to vote guilty when they did not think the agents were guilty and received inproper instruction from the Judge.
That in it self is enough to overturn the trial and start over.
#35 trl3
Not arguing that point. I’m saying you can’t compare this situation to the Duke lacrosse players situation, that’s all.
Shaker, I beleive the comparison was not with the two trials, but with taking the relevant facts of the ase only from one soure. Has anyone in the judicial side of things made a press release we can refer to?
#34
I don’t think that is quite what has been reported, at least in the reports that I’ve read. Nowhere have I read that the judge is the one that did this. What I have seen is that after the trial, after time had past, these jurors did say that they voted guilty because they were told that the judge wouldn’t allow a hung jury and they would have to keep deliberating. And they were tired and didn’t want to. And that other jurors bullied them. So, I suppose it has some merit - I too know weak spined, lazy people and hope like heck they aren’t on a jury if I’m the defendent.
Now, that said, why didn’t the defense poll each juror in open court when the verdict was read? Apparently, there was no indication that the jury was anything but unanimous.
headshaker
I don’t think it can be compared to the Duke case either.
The Duke reference pointed out that prosecutor is not always infallable as EricPJohnson seems to believe.
Personally, I don’t if they are guilty or not, but I have great doubt that they have had a fair day in court. If it turns out they are guilty I have no problem with them never seeing daylight again, but as things sit now I have a problem with their bail not being extended until the appeals process is complete.
#34
Found this news release from the US Border Patrol.
#39 trl3 - agreed
Big Jolly
The Judge failed to inform the jury when she sent them back for furthure deliberations that if they failed to reach a verdict that they would be a hung jury. It is believed that this oversight was due to inexperiance, not purposely to influence the verdict. None the less if 3 jurors now state that they were in fact pressured and that false information was used to do so, IMHO it is probable that the case will be overturned and sent back for retrial. I believe that with just this knowledge we would need nothing more to belive that bail should have been continued.
# 9
Good one
Big Jolly, Trl3
Senatpor Culberson said why don’t we wait for the appeals process
Lets let the legal experts examine the trial and if the conduct was wrong they will be tried and convicted again but this time its quite likely they will not drop the attempted murder charges making a pardon all but impossible
I pose this question again
They did not know he was
A. an Illegal
B. An drug dealing illegal
And then they did what by their own admission
A. They clubbed him with a shotgun
B. they fired numerous rounds at him
C. they picked up and threw away the evidence
D. Did not report the incident to their superiors
E. Lied about it during the investigation
Jury angst (now facing the manufactured wrath of the public) is common place in high profile cases
Not a ground breaking admission
not a common or compelling reason for overturning a verdict
42
I don’t know how this specific case will turn out. I do know, however, from reading many court opinions, that it is not easy to get a verdict overturned on the basis of alleged jury misconduct just because one or more jurors say they were badgered into a decision by others. Also, I recall reading cases where one juror misstating the law to the others was not reason to overturn the verdict. If there was any question about their instructions, they should have sent a note to the judge as jurors frequently do.
Extortion would be a different matter, of course.
I meant Senator Coryn
Sorry
David
special reports on on going trials and ivestigation and background are probably why a pushy congressmen with just oversite duties but not supervisory duties isn’t getting his way.
McCaul could have recalled all the parties at anytime for hearings on the incident
Maybe we should have asked him why he didn’t so it in Feb 2005 but wants to bring it up now almost 2 years later
Maybe
EricPJohnson
They didn’t know, they suspected.
They suspect struggled with them.
Most of these items are not necessarily fact but taken from the prosecutors statement, but you claim anything the prosecutor says to be FACTS.
The statement from the 3 jurors is what started many to wonder and public wrath did not occur first.
And yes, 3 jurors stating that there was misconduct during the deliberations is grounds for overturning the verdict an conducting a retrial.
Of course since you have so much inside information that even United States Congressmen can’t get, …
Out of curiosity, how many of you guys wrote your congressman and demanded an unbiased review of this case?
The Case of Shaka Sankofa: A Great Injustice
WorldNet Daily posted this story this afternoon, based on a telephone interview with Sutton. Not much new.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53837
#30 bj
“Difference is Debra Kanof’s evidence was heard by 12 jurors with a federal judge moderating.”
duhmoose was right on in #37.
Most people here aren’t claiming their innocence, but just asking to get all the facts and evidence out in the open. If they have these signed statements that they claim, which are basically confessions, let’s see them.
If it weren’t for the Duke lacrosse players’ lawyers feeding evidence to the press that shows all of the holes in his case and the EVIDENCE BEING OVERLOOKED by a zealous prosecutor, who knows what could happen.
And if you’re belief is that a jury and judge is infallible, why do we even have appeals?
#51
I never said anyone was infallible. I said that appeals do work. And, btw, their appeals haven’t been heard. Seems to me I’m the one saying to let this play out where it should - in court.
#49 bj
Is your point that we must be critical of and investigate all crimes where the criminals claim to be innocent or none at all?
In addition, if I go out swimming with great white sharks and get attacked, I didn’t deserve it, but I definitely deserve part of the blame.
Shaka Sankofa was on a week long armed robbery spree and assaults, which he himself admitted.
I wouldn’t want him executed for a crime he didn’t commit, but by no means is a druggy thug who beats up and robs people at gunpoint going to get the same attention from me as two law enforcement officers.
I’ve got no problem with this going through the appeals process and having the courts decide. However, with the information that is out there, I don’t want them in prison at that time and I want to make sure all evidence is properly addressed.
How many times have we heard about the prosecution not turning evidence over to the defense? We know that Nifong didn’t turn over everything that he was supposed to turn over. If we force the DOJ to release everything (at least to the congressmen) then we know that justice will be served.
#53
Okay, so the mob gets to pick which person on trial to save. Seems I remember a story like that from a couple of thousand years ago.
So, that’s all folks. I’ll let it play out on it’s own.
May we have the transcripts please? What is so difficult about getting the full report/court transcripts into the hands of the Congressional individuals who are entitled to see it?
Trl3
No according to the officers the suspect did not struggle
The defendents
As suspicion does not equal execution
Eric, you are wrong. The officers said the suspect struggled, the officer fell, then the suspect ran. What you meant to say is according to the Prosecutor the suspect did not struggle.
#56 vlou
re: transcripts
I don’t know why. I talked to Richard Delgado yesterday and was promised an order form would be faxed to me. I called him again this morning and left a message. Around 10 am I received a call from someone in his dept saying that she would fax it to me today and would call me Monday to discuss what I wanted to order. She said there are multiple transcripts available and the order form would spell them out.
As of 3:30 I haven’t received the fax. Still waiting. I’ll call again Monday if need be. Maybe they are being deluged with requests.
Duhmoose
Despite NEO’s best efforts to slander someone - the Prosecutor got the defendents and the witnessess to confirm this - but we can wait for the review
I’m not going to rehash it - the officers said he was not a threat there was another agent who saw the whole thing lets just wait for the review
You have to admit this could have gone away if in 2005 these officers and the fellow agents and their supervisors had handled the situation correctly
they didn’t and now we are left with this mess
And if we had a border fence then these deputies would have not been put in this situation in the first place
but with all that - he was unarmed and alone
They shot at him at least 15 times and left him bleeding
This is not law enforcement that was assault with intent to kill
we can all go back and forth but making a high stakes political melodrama out of this astounds me how many are willing to do this without even a basic understanding of the facts.
I’m going by the premise that my government has some flawed people in places but they are Americans and are good and not my enemy - if you are of another persuasion than i understand where you are coming from
#55 bigjolly
Desperate times must really call for desperate rationals.
“Okay, so the mob gets to pick which person on trial to save. Seems I remember a story like that from a couple of thousand years ago.”
Do I not have a choice as to what I contact my reps for? Who ever said the mob should pick and choose who goes on trial?
“Out of curiosity, how many of you guys wrote your congressman and demanded an unbiased review of this case?”
Do you not understand what we were discussing or do you choose to deviate wildly when you know you’re losing the debate or are you just a little irrationsal?
How do you go from asking who we choose to contact our reps about and the mob choosing who to put on trial?
Focus man, focus.
#60,
“but with all that - he was unarmed and alone”
Could you please show us the sworn testimony from the person who patted down this drug smuggler and confirmed that he was unarmed? A PDF of that would be fine.
Such melodrama, Eric.
He got into another vehicle which drove off.
Lifetime drug dealer riding around with a million bucks worth of pot….unarmed.
That’s the way the dealers operated back in the day.
Sho’ nuff, brotha.
EricPJohnson:
Tip: You could be heard better if you turned down the volume on your arrogance.
Thanks.
#61 Peter
Yes, you have a choice. Just like….nevermind.
Ah, yes. Focus. I’m sorry, the intellectually heavyweight arguments of “he was an illegal running drugs and probably had a gun somewhere so we get to shoot him for the heck of it” have me so baffled I lost my focus. And to think I thought this was about a call for an unbiased review.
I bow to your intellectual superiority. G’day.
And just an observation, the way the value of that pot in the van keeps going up, it is obvious that HCAD is providing the estimates.
ah, ah, ah, ah, ah… Double post.
67 bigjlly
Hee hee.
It’s fact-free Friday, didn’t ya hear???
This has nothing to do with this post. Well, it does in a roundabout way. Has anyone seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ala7jC4P558&eurl
CP
#70
That is ridiculous! I am surprised at Cavoto for shutting her off!
Eric, you claim that the BP agents admitted to clubbing Mr. Drug Runner with their own shotguns. On what do you base that statement? In what document that has been made public, did you gleen that information?
So before you get your rope for these two Border Patrolmen, perhaps you should read the BP manual. A incident that includes the use of a fire arm, now listen intently, DOES NOT REQUIRE A WRITTEN REPORT. As a matter of fact, written reports are discouraged because the DHS is not real keen on having the American public realize just how many times our BP are fired on, both from Mexican nations on our side of the border and from Mexican nationals on THEIR side of the border.
Perhaps it would behoove you to check with any of the Border Patrol union locals.
And maybe, just maybe, you would like to make a note of the fact that the BP is not allowed to persue a perp (or even a suspected perp) over the speed limit without the express approval of a supervisor. Another thing you might like to make a note of is that at any time a Border Patrol agent is injured during persuit, the supervisor is REQUIRED to report it to the FBI. This also was not done.
I find it odd that you claim to have seen trascripts of this trial when the DOJ has clearly stated that the transcripts are not yet ready due to illness of the transcriber.
My advise to you? Don’t bother with that book, unless it is fiction. No one would read it.
Retire05
Thanks for your comments
Please note that
The Arizona Section was told of the shooting by the Drug dealers mother
The Arizona section duly reported it to the ICE-OPR which according to one newspaper report has 172 open cases againt border patrolmen
ICE-OPR investigated and turned their evidence over to the United States Attorney for the western District
He then went before and grand jury and the grand jury said there was sufficient evidence of criminal wrong doing.
Sutton, myself, had nothing to do with these two before the BORDER PATROL investigated them
This trial was over in early August 2006
The US attorney issued press statements and releases on Sept 17 2006
My take for what little its worth is that Poe and McCaul and Culberson could have taken up theses two as a cause celeb but for the reality that they KNEW they were guilty and the media would have duly pointed that out during the critical 2006 November elections
So now after the fact they are demanding justice
I never claimed to have the transcript - I said like some I rely on Trancripts they were excerpted in several news reports and in the United States Attorney statements and in the Tony Snow Press Conference
The mystery is the DHS is reported to have promised McCaul a report
No one but McCaul can verify that
The spokerperson called McCaul a “horses butt” in so many words and told him if he was concerned to get a transcript and look at it himself
Shannon,
It will be interesting to see the time and the third border patrolmen who was at the scene account from the courts - like I said i’ve seen fragments of it in news reports - this was not popular so there was not nearly as much coverage as in the last two or three weeks
But remember Shannon
They didn’t know who he was
They didn’t know he had drugs in the car
They didn’t know if he was a citizen or not
They are real lucky that they are not being extradicted to Mexico for attempted murder charges
Eric, let me make something very clear. Mike McCaul became involved because some of us in his district learned of the case, albeit late, and requested he get involved.
And try to get your facts right. No, the Arizona sector (meaning supervision) was not informed of the shooting by the drug dealer’s mother. The drug dealer’s mother called Agent Rene Sanchez’s mother-in-law. Agent Sanchez is assigned to the Tuscon sector. And even then, Agent Sanchez never notified his supervisor, instead he went to DHS.
Why did Avila’s mother call Sanchez’s mother-in-law? Because Sanchez and Avila grew up together in the same Mexican town and were friends.
So if you are going to spin this, at least try to keep your spin truthful.
So you’re relying on the statements of the U.S. Attorney’s office? I was unaware that they had released any or part of the trial transcripts. Perhaps you would like to provide a link to that as the U.S. Attorney’s office has said that the transcripts are not yet available.
So what if the BP agents did not know that he had drugs in the Ford van? Are you saying that if a man is stopped for a broken head light and it is discovered he has a dead body in the trunk, he cannot not be prosecuted for murder because the reason for stopping him had nothing to do with the body and they didn’t know his name before they stopped him?
BTW, American citizens do not run from Border Patrol. They have no reason to.
One other thing; we have no formal extradition agreement with Mexico. Or have you not noticed that Mexico refuses to extradite cop killers back to the United States.
What do you do for a living? Teach at U.T.?
retire05
we could all step back from the emotions of the case - you can also drop the transcripts part you obviously do not google
No I don’t teach at UT but that is THE most interesting insult thrown at me
BTW American citizens do not run?
Really maybe you could provide us with some links making that a proven fact
Retire05 I’m going to have to move you to the tinfoil growd - meet NEO, Daniel James, BigJolly I’m sure they have room for one more
Look if shooting and beating unarmed suspects doesn’t bother you then well you can live in any one of these fine countries where that is practiced
Cuba, Egypt, Angola, Nigeria, red China, and the proverbial favorite - North Korea
Also stopping someone with a broken headlight is okay shooting and beating him and leaving him wounded is not if he’s no threat - see unarmed.
Please let our jury system try and convict people and not multple anger management attendees like Ramos
I’d like to think that the many people out there doing the thankless kobs we take for granted deserve a posterboygirl that is not serving prison time
Eric, so you are saying you are not reading anything from the official transcripts, but relying on what you have read in news paper articles and other sources. You seemed to have left me with the impression early on that you were in fact in posession of the actual trial transcripts. I am confused? This means no one has the actual facts of the case. And googling them does not make them a fact either.
A long time ago, do not even remember the details any more, I had knowledge of a story that made its way into the news wires. The information was there for all to see. What was interesting to me was the fact that no matter what news report I heard or read, what was reported had little truth to what actually happened. So, if you are solely relying on what is being reported, then in my personal opinion and from my personal experience, you do not have the facts of this case any more than anyone else.
Eric, interesting response. Weak, but interesting.
I ask you for a link to the transcripts and you provide me with Google. Yet, in typical fashion of someone who cannot back up their claims, you want a link from me to prove that legal Ameican citizens do not run from the Border Patrol. I quite understand how that works. So spare me.
You have chosen to take the word of a drug runner who claims that Compean and Ramos tried to beat him up. The word of a drug runner who, when offered immunity for his crime, continued to bring his poison into the United States to sell it to someone who would sell it to our kids. How understanding of you. Yes, Davila is just another poor Mexican trying to make a living for his family. The only problem with that is his profession is professional drug runner, and has been since he was 14.
No, I do not belong to the tinfoil hat crowd, but obviously, you are a candidate for the KKK crowd.
And you seem to know little about the law and that if a person is stopped for a broken headlight and has a dead body in his car, making them a suspected murderer, if he runs from the police after being told to stop, chances are he is going to get shot. Or do you think that our law enforcement should just let him get away?
Riddle me this, batman: if the DHS has had time to investigate Compean and Ramos, take them to trial, present their case and obtain a verdict, why is DHS not finished with their investigation of seven Border Patrol that is related to this case? That is the excuse they have given for why they are not making the investigative reports public. And don’t you find it odd that there just happend to be seven other Border Patrol that arrived at the scene of the shooting of Mr. Honest Drug Runner who, after two years, are still under investigation?
Perhaps you would like to comment on this statement from the Border Patrol Union, who had a representative at the trial:
http://www.nbpc.net/ramos_compean/rebuttal_to_sutton.pdf
May I remind you, that when we no longer have oversight of the Justice Department, we will no longer have justice?
retire05
Nope you don’t get off the hook
PLEASE PROVIDE THE LINK WHERE AMERICANS DON”T RUN TO THE BORDER
It was the basis of your argument that it was justified cause he was a illegal
Its the basis of everyone’s argument that it was okay because
AFTER THE FACT
A. We discovered drugs
B. We discovered he was an illegal
Yes 7 other agents are under investigation because
1. They lied to their superiors
2. they let they guy gey away
3. they may not have stopped the shooting
Let me remind you that the JUDGE and the JURY are the exact oversight put in place by the magna carta and the constitution that guarentee oversight of our very legal system
Look I found the whole damn thing odd, one, why didn’t they just cuff the guy
two, why did the expose themselves to such risk
three, why didn’t they notify their superiors
four why did they then compound it by lying to investigators
I wish they never did it and their was a fence so the little drug dealer would be behind bars
Also regarding the tin foil hat conspiracies
Investigative reports include conversations with family members co-workers mistressess etc, they are not always available to the public unless they are relevent to the case - feel free to correct me if I’m wrong
Also,
The nine page (BTW extracted from trial transcripts! - now you have them - fork em over) typical union diatribe is not surprising.
I have not seen it qouted as a serious document
Let them enter it into evidence at the appeal
What do you think thier chances will be if they are retried
I would take my 12 and forget the life sentence they were facing on attempted murder with a weapon
I see how you work. You are still not willing to provide the link for the court transcripts that you claim to have read. OK. So much for your credibility.
Now you are claiming that the “fact sheet” put out by the U.S. Attorney’s office is correct while you dismiss the statement of the Union. Convenienct for your agenda, isn’t it?
BTW, the Magna Carta is a British document, not a United States document and has nothing to do with American law.
In case you failed Civics, there are three branches of goverment, one to provide oversight into the other. No, judges and juries are not judicial oversight groups.
So are you saying that since finding drugs in the van was “after the fact” that the police will not be able to charge that pedophile in Missouri with the kidnapping of the second boy they found in his apartment because it was “after the fact” of finding the first boy?
Now, where are your links to the trial transcripts? Ummmmm?
crickets churping………………………
#78 retire05
Thanks for the link to the National Border Patrol Council’s version of the fact sheet. It seemed to me to be much more detailed - and even clarified the question of the “subsequent arrest” (or lack thereof) of Aldrete-Davila for marijuana possession. The fact that the October 2005 indictment was sealed and subsequently expunged explains a lot.
#79
You are running fast and loose and making statements of fact that are not yet proven one way or the other.
Unless you still claim you have sources that are being denied to over 50 Untied States Congressmen.