Okay, gonna give it a shot. Wife is out of town, nothing going on, thought I’d check out the Dems.
Debate was held at Howard University, a traditional black college. Historical intro by Tom Joyner, a black radio host. Hey, that’s the way he was introduced, got nothing to do with me. I’d have said he was a talk radio host.
The the moderator for the evening came on, Tavis Smiley, a black journalist. Once again, that’s how he was introduced, don’t blame me. Gave props to some “notables” in the crowd, among them Dr. Cornel West, a black professor from Princeton. Once again, it isn’t me. I’d have said he was a professor at Princeton.
Mr. Smiley characterized this debate as an open book test on issues that matter most to persons of color. Once again……
Then Deval Patrick, the black governor of Massachusetts. Like I said, it isn’t me! Gov. Patrick’s job was to introduce the candidates. Finally. At last.
Back to Mr. Smiley, who introduced the first questioner, a Crecilla Cowen Scott, who won an internet contest for first question. She’s a black blogger. Go figure. Once again, it isn’t me. After that, Mr. Smiley introduced the others, Dewayne, Michelle and Navarette. Or something like that.
So, how’s about the debate. Debate? Oh, yeah, it finally started. And, about the grades, please remember that I’m grading on a curve. These are libs we’re talking about.
- Joe Biden - C+ - not too bad in context of the whole. I thought he was pretty strong on the first question, which was about race issues and specifically about today’s SC decision removing race from school choice. He was pretty strong in saying that he was the only one that was hard on Roberts and Alito. Did you know that he thinks that mothers should talk to their children as early as the age of 2? Yep. He sure does.
- Hillary Clinton - A - easily and handily won this debate. Zero question about it. She looked good and had far more applause than anyone else. Stuck with the talking points and did it well. Whether Repubs like it or not, she’ll be a formidable opponent. I was hoping she would suck. Didn’t happen.
- Chris Dodd - D - needs to consult Hill’s facelift doctor. Talked about black infant mortality being 2.5 times that of whites. Access to health care is the issue. Tax policy should reflect moral values. Education most important. And still got little applause.
- John Edwards - C - not as much applause as I thought he’d get. Actually said that poverty was the focus of his life. Huh? Whatever. Wants to fund schools earlier than 4 years of age. Raise cap gains tax.
- Mike Gravel - F - strange guy. His Ron Paul moment came at the end when he said that the solution to Darfur was simple, it was about moral judgement and no one on the stage but him had it, the proof is in their lives. Interesting.
- Dennis Kucinich - B - well, I was surprised too. He had his own Ron Paul moments and he looks like a younger Ross Perot and he sounds likes he’s been sucking on a helium bottle. But he got an awful lot of applause from the audience. Focused mostly on ending the war in Iraq, using that money to give everyone free education. Cancel NAFTA, WTO, all black ops, go back to basic human rights.
- Barack Obama - D- - boy, was I disappointed. And I think most people in the room were. I mean, this was a black college, black audience, 3 of 4 questioners were black, the moderator was black and the two special guests were black. And he sucked. Big time. Truly a surprise, I’d never seen him have to talk in a forum like this, just his pop culture icon image. He truly sucked. Watch the debate on YouTube if you don’t believe me. Maybe I expected too much?
- Bill Richardson - F - as bad as Obama was, Richardson was worse. Slow talker, never quite finished a thought. As a conservative, I did like that he said the Dems should be pro-growth on the economy. I think. Not sure he finished the thought. He’s really slow.
Hillary stood out in this group. Head and shoulders above the rest in my eyes. It’ll be interesting to see what the left thinks about it.
All were for ending the Bush tax cuts. All praised Warren Buffet for saying that the rich need to be taxed more. All thought that capital gains should be taxed at a higher level. All thought that we should fund education at a higher level, with Edwards saying we should pay for all people in the world to be educated. All were for ending mandatory sentencing and ending the drug war. All blasted yesterday’s Supreme Court ruling about not using race as a factor in school choice.
Katrina was repeated over and over as an example of how the U.S. failed it’s citizens. All thought that we should pay people to move back there. Hillary has a 10 point plan for it. Obama says that we failed New Orleans long before the hurricane.
I’ll tell you this much. Any conservative that says they won’t vote for a Republican if their specific candidate isn’t nominated in the primary is a fool. Just watch this group and you’ll see why I say that.
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You must’ve been bored! If not, I’ll bet you are now.
“Any conservative that says they won’t vote for a Republican if their specific candidate isn’t nominated in the primary is a fool.”
Well put Bigjolly could not agree more.
I watched bits and pieces and agree, Hillary stood out and Obama was empty. Tell me the difference between some people we have elected as republicans and this group? No matter what a presidential candidate says he will do, it’s congress that gets things done.
AW, as I wrote the other day about GWB, the most important thing a President will do in his term is a Supreme Court nomination, if given the chance. I’ve watched all three Repub debates and this one Dem debate. I would accept any of the Repubs nominations light years before this group. And I don’t like most of the Repubs.
I agree about the supreme court justices, nd that’s a defining point for me. I watched the audience and they lapped up the remarks these candidates made. Even a conservative candidate for supreme court justice, may not get the nomination. The opposition will be fearce to oppose any conservative judge. I havent seen the republicans, as a group be forceful, demanding, and effective. These folks remind me of the kids who get picked on and give in all the time. No thanks! And I would say they get more rich while going belly up.
This from a pro-union guy who fraternizes with liberals around Lorrie Morgan videos. Interesting. I’m quite capable of forming my own opinion of what constitutes a fool.
I don’t have to pull the handle at all , if my party is as ineffective as it has been. Mel Martinez are you listening?
Bingo!!! I’ll vote for conservatives who know how and when to go for the jugular. Play to win or stay home.
When Hillary is ready to clear the field, she will. None of those other candidates have a chance. As it stands now, the race will be Clinton vs Thompson. The campaign will be between two orthodox philosophies and will be quite fascinating, I think.
Uh, we do have two new strict constitutionalist justices on the SCOTUS. Recent rulings show how much that means. Both were nominated by a non-conservative Republican President and confirmed by a Senate made up of many non-conservative Republicans. Does anyone here truly think we would have Alito or Roberts (or even someone like O’Connor) nominated by a President Hillary and confirmed by a Reid-led Senate? Seriously?
Kinky for President!
I knew I should’ve put a Norah Jones video up.
Or maybe Keith Whitley.
How about this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHJzN-OzEok
Norah Jones is an intelligent and humble lady. Her good looks are but icing on the top of the cake.
#15 Dude
Norah Jones is a pig just like that Coulter wench!
LOL just kidding
She’s the bomb!
I watched the debate. Gravel may get an F from you, strictly grading on how him saying things to actually win the nomination, but I sure as heck enjoyed his continual holding up the mirror to all the incumbents on their all talk and no action.
Gravel, as Democrats go, got a B+ from me:
1) Convictions: duh! Any in the audience really has to wonder that money plays a role?
2) Taxes: Did the tax code got to be what it is all of the sudden? He supports the National Sales tax.
Gravel should have mentioned the following to show that criminal justice is not what it should be:
1) OJ Simpson
2) The Duke non-rape
3) Tawana Brawley
What really gets me is this: all the statistics that were quoted with regards to crime and HIV, with the implication that blacks/minorities, as members in that group, by nature: criminals, promiscuous and with a total lack of self-discipline.
Biden did well on, very cricumscribed, pointing out that they, the blacks/minorities, have a role to play in preventing HIV/AIDS.
No chance in under heaven and above hell that I’d vote for any of them.
#6 - Dude, you are right - to a point. Given no other choice (i.e. the primaries are over and “my guy” didn’t win) I still maintain that it would be better to elect a GWB and then flood his office with faxes, letters, phone calls and emails than it would be to elect a Hilary Clinton.
Why?
Because all of the Liberal, wasteful, ineffective garbage we’ve seen from GWB would be a drop in the bucket compared to what we’d get from an HRC. Even Bush’s “masterpiece”, the amnesty bill, would have been even worse under Ms. Clinton.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
Here is my take:
Joe Biden: B+
Mike Gravel: B+
Barack Obama: C+
Hillary Clinton: C
John Edwards: C
Dennis Kucinich: D
Chris Dodd: F
Bill Richardson: F
I wqas really surprise how bad were Clinton and, especially, Obama.
Dodd, what a dud!
Here we go again. Why is Hal throwing my comments into the spit basket; short posts and no links.
What about John McSwine and Hayseed Graham - weren’t they there? Given Hayseed’s response to yesterday’s vote on amnesty, do you think he has figured out by now that McSwine sandbagged him. All these grand plans down the drain - no vice president job to be followed up by running for the big office, no doting press hanging on every word awed by his wisdom and courage, no nights filled with ballroom dancing and gala evening gowns (ala J. Edgar), etc. All gone - and with any luck, even the lowly job of US Senator is at risk. Not even the great one himself, John McSwine, can save him now. He’d better hurry up and find the posterior or a rising star to insert his nose into. Maybe he can get Nifong’s old job after this is over.
big -
Thanks for doing this for us. The only way I could have made it through that debate is with constant access to a full martini shaker.
Well then call me a fool. This is a matter of personal principles.
Furthermore have you considered just how many fools “stayed home” and why during the ‘06 elections? The message that was sent is very simple.
You left us.
The fear plank of the Republican Party is rotted and calling me and millions of Conservatives foolish is not going to change the fact the wannabe candidates best change their song and dance because “we” are/may not.
During the ‘06 elections “we” were bombarded with every “here is what you are going to get if the Democrats get control” argument. That did not work out very well now did it? The clarion call should be “Hey Republican Candidates you best wake up cause the CONSERVATIVE BASE is poised to stay home…again.”
did anyone see queen sheilia? it is amazing how the camera is just drawn to her - it must be her charisma.
I really like Biden’s answer to the crisis in Darfur - essentially he said that those on stage should have addressed this issue 18 months ago and that we don’t need to wait to have a Democrat in the WH to solve this problem.
It is all about the fight. Fight like crazy in the primaries for your candidate. When it comes to the general election, you have a choice. Plain and simple.
You can sit home, you can vote for a publicly stated liberal or you can vote for what you perceive might be a liberal. Or, if there happens to be a third party candidate, you can vote for them, I suppose.
So, if I’m a fool for voting for someone that will, IMHO, be the best choice for the long term future of this country, then I’m a fool. I have children and want them to have hope for the future.
If I’m a fool for thinking that unions have a place in society and that Lorrie Morgan is a babe, then I’m a fool. I’ll still vote for the person that I think will nominate the best Supreme Court justices, even if my choice loses in the primary.
Work and win. Change minds. If you lose, you lose. But running and hiding isn’t going to cut it.
How many of those conservatives actually worked for change vs. calling in to a talk show and flapping their gums? Very few.
Running and hiding when you get defeated isn’t the best choice. IMHO of course.
Big Jolly #25
I fully agree and could not have said it better.
I agree also, but did I ever advocate “running and hiding”? I don’t believe Squawk ever advocated that either, he just pointed out that conservatives will likely stay home if their choices are liberal or more liberal. He didn’t say he’d stay home.
I hear that a lot but never see data to support it. Voter turnout in 2006 was in fact HIGHER than in 2002 (both midterms) in both actual numbers and percentage of eligible voters.
2006 - 96.2 million voters, 47.8% of the eligible
2002 - 87.8 million voters, 46.2% of the eligible
Well let me address a few things here.
Yup and I will make one of the choices you listed above and be very comfortable in my skin (as will many of us).
I work to win everyday
I am trying but you folks keep telling me how foolish I am. My argument is very simple:
“Mr. Wannabe Candidate” you change cause I am not. The fear Democrats plank no longer works. You be
Fiscally Conservative
Secure my country
Work to shrink gubment
Protect my liberties as outlined in the Bill of Rights
and I will vote for you. If you don’t I won’t.
Yup if I lose so be it. I never run and hide. Even skipping a block on the ballot I have made my choice and my voice heard. I get right back into the fray and keep pushing my message of DEMAND BETTER.
I don’t know and frankly I don’t care. However, those of us that are active and engaged know why many conservatives stayed home. So we push that message.
Hey Rpublicans, want our votes? Then represent us. If you don’t then we won’t.
If the Republicans deserved to win they would be in power as we speak. So who is the foolish one? Knowing that the Conservative base is angry and feels unrepresented Does it not make more sense to demand better from the “Wanna be candidate”.
On a perosnal side note.
I am commanded to pray for my leaders not vote for them. ;>)
Now I have to find the dang numbers that pointed out the amount of conservatives that stayed home, skipped blocks, protest voted etc.
/Note to self:
Backup bookmarks so that you have that info handy next time after computer crashes.
Those numbers will be interesting. If the total turnout was higher, and millions of conservatives did indeed stay home, that would be something to ponder. Wouldn’t bode well for the future of conservatives.
And always pray for your leaders. While you’re out block walking.
The poll and the numbers were presented shortly after the ‘06 election. Dangit I gotta find that.
One of the bottom lines was that many Dems that ran under a “conservative” banner were elected in tradiional republican seats.
Conservatism did not lose. Republicans that turned from “conservative” principles lost. The conservative ideology wins EVERYTIME it is tried. Look at the librepubs that are in office now that got voted in because of the
Republican = Conservative association since the Reagan years. I stand accused and guilty of making that mistake.
The Republicans (politicians) is a house divided that is quickly becoming a united house under the banner of liberal to moderate politicans. The vestiges of conservativism are leaking away with each election cycle. Why? Because the electorate has accepted the lesser of two evils arguments and no longer DEMANDS better much less excellence.
I’m not saying anything about the lesser of two evils. If you vote in a primary and more people vote for the other guy, you then have a choice. You can sit out completely, which is apparently what you are advocating or you can say, you know what? I’m closer to my neighbors beliefs about politics than I am the guy across town, I’m going to vote with him.
Sitting at home you can’t demand anything. And I never said anything about Democrat fears. I said after listening to THIS group of candidates and the OTHER group of candidates, it ain’t even close as to who is more conservative, even on an individual candidate level.
Rudy is probably the most liberal one of the Pubbies. And he is so far to the right of this group of Dems you can’t even see him.
Who cares, martial law is coming anyway.
I have never advocted that anyoneshould stay home.
Let me make one thing clear here. I personally have never sat out an election but I have skipped boxes and if I cannot find a candidate that represents my political beliefs I will skip that box.
What I have said or at the least suggested is that in the course of evaluating why a party or candidate lost, the stay at home people must be considered. It has been recognized/proven that many conservatives that have tradionally voted Republican did stay home. The question is why? I am merely voicing to the WANNABEs what they are ignoring.
The Republicans are in deep crappola because the THEY left their conservative base in a lurch.
I went to the Sekula Gibbs rally and when Bush spoke the message that I heard was “Now uhhhhhhhhhh you ummmmmm know what will happen errrrrr if the Democrats get elected.” That was his focus, no agenda, no standing on his successes (note: he spent all of 1 minute on the economy) it was all FEAR DEMOCRATS wink wink nudge nudge.
Furthermore I have listed issue after issue where the Republicans have acted more as democrats then conservatives and frankly I refuse to rubber stamp their behavior any longer. These people like the democrats understand one thing only, whether they are voted in or not. So I will “not” vote for someone and not vote for anyone.
#36 Squawk
Hmmmm…..sounds like Sarge and the other 20% of the country that still supports Bush.
Shakey
LOL…. yup.
And no one said you should. That’s why you work to change in the primaries. Yeah, it can be tough and is always a longshot to beat an incumbent but it can be done and has been done.
People voted for conservative Dems last year. That’s good, no problem at all with that.
In 08, there will be a choice. If one of the 8 Dems from last night is on the ticket and one of the 10 Repubs from the debates are on the ticket, there is no question in my mind that I’d vote for the Repub.
Know what frustrates me? All the wet dreams about Fred Thompson. He may or may not be better than the 10 guys out there but his record doesn’t call for the kind of savior status conservatives have given him.
Jolly
I work to change
I vote in the primaries
and if I do not like the Republican guy in the general election (no more qualifiers needed from me)
I WILL SKIP THE BOX. I demand better and I will sleep quite well at night.
As to Thompson. As it stands now if Thompson runs I would vote for him because I know where he stands on “the issues”. There are many I do not agree with but I know where he stands.
I have listened to the current front runners and their words now do not coincide with there actions in the past.
NOTE: Abortion which seems to be the hot button issue for conservatives (man am I gonna catch it now) is not an election issue with me. If it is, it is way down on my color chart on the checklist.
Satan 08
Why vote for the Lesser of two evils?
And that is your right. I couldn’t look my grandkids (when I have them) in the eye if I did that. Different strokes.
Faster, it isn’t the lesser of two evils. It is simply a choice. Why not say the better of two goods? Same thing, doesn’t change the candidates.
When someone says that, people immediately say, oh, Democrat fear mongering, I’m not falling for it. Well, the left says the same thing. It doesn’t change the fact that one of the two candidates is going to be closer to your own personal views.
Will they match your views? Rarely if ever. With 100 million plus personalities pulling levers, there will be differences. But there is a clear choice.
No matter how much you are pissed at GWB or think he’s the devil, clearly he was a better choice for me than John Kerry or Al Gore. Same goes with every presidential election, bar none. There is a clear choice.
And presidental elections are far more important than CD22 elections, although they are important as well. Presidents appoint judges that will be with us for life. As Nat said in the comments, the further to the right the nominee is, the better, because there is always a leftward shift, never a rightward one.
So no, I won’t skip the box. And I won’t hold my nose when I vote.
#41 Faster,
LOL! That’s the best thing I’ve read today.
If we’re going to mess things up, we might as well go with the best messer upper we can find, right?
Damn, my humor meter must be low today. Didn’t even get it. Thanks Dude.
#44 Big: Go to open comments. I just posted an easy read that even I was able to GET!
Thanks malcolm. Between that and the Romney’s dog story, I’m better.
I said I do not have to pull the lever. My fear is, my republican leaders will not make a concerted effort to change things for us. Mel Martinez and the powers that be, may not understand the folly of this last week. Nor, may they understand the last election. Look back on congress and tell me how proud you are of republicans when Trent Lott was in charge. We cannot go on as the status quo…. giving nominations to people we feel have been loyal, for loyalties sake. Giving nominations to good ole boys cause they have known them for twenty years. This country needs guidance. We need leaders with passion and values.
I wanted to add running Bob Dole for president is a good example. What a great guy he is , and wonderful man. How much of a chance did he have to win?
WARNING BLATANT WHATEVER IT IS I AM ABOUT TO DO
Oh it is for the cheeeeillllldren.
I can see it now. My daughter in 25 years setting here in my place, surrounded by fine Cuban Cigar smoke, enjoying an ice cold beverage, moderating LoneMexicanStarTimes.com blog arguing the same points that I do.
She will be listening how people do not want to miss the opportunity to insure that “conservative” judges are placed in SCOTUS and how they would rather have a Republican that fails miserably as a conservative rather than Chelsea Clinton as president.
End of BLATANT WHATEVER IT IS I AM ABOUT TO DO
I wonder if my daughter will be simultaneously moderating CabezaShaker.com, a site maintained for Mexas citizens who like to have a place where they can use the language they can’t use on LoneMexicanStarTimes.com. Sheesh. I think I’m gonna ban the kid from computers now that I think about it that way.
Sacudaro mi cabeza porque las cosas nunca cambian.
She can use that as her page title.
Hey, like I said, you guys can choose to take your ball home when you lose. Or, in this case, when you don’t get picked to play. Different strokes.
Who’d a thunk it? Conservatives whining when they lose, refusing to play, taking the ball home to mama. I thought it was only John Edwards that called mama when he was scared.
Strange world we live in.
Jolly
I am not whining nor do I become disengaged. I read from good folks like yourself complaint after complaint about the RINOs, libpubbys or whatever you want to call them, yet you refuse to take the absolute action that it takes to replace them…. let them get voted out.
I am merely stating that if the candidate does not meet with my litmus test I will no longer vote for second best.
Oh, and one more thing. Why is Chelsea president? Huh? What was that?
Oh, yeah, I should’ve known. ’cause some people didn’t come out to play.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. I vote. I go to precinct meetings. Do you know how many loudmouths bothered to come to the last one? 7. That’s right. 7. Since I’ve been in this precinct, the highest number has been 13.
Yet you guys say we should just sit home if our guy doesn’t win. Don’t get it.
And utter nonsense. I DON’T vote for people that do what you said. In the primary.
I missed one primary vote since I’ve been voting. Last year. I voted for Strayhorn. That’s right, blast me for that too, since I didn’t vote for the party line of Kinky. He’s an idiot and I’d never vote for him, protest or not.
When it comes to the general election, I don’t choose to tuck my tail and go hide. I vote for whom I vote for and take my lumps.
And yeah, it is for the Cheeeelreen. Funny as that might seem to you.
Whoa
Don’t jump my bones. You are the one that said I was a fool in so many words.
Back in my post #23 I pointed out my reasoning and you decided to take issue with that. I also pointed out why people like me stayed home. I stated at the outset that it is a matter of principle. You expanded the debate.
No, what you are saying is that if your candidate doesn’t win, you are going to sit home and let someone win that isn’t in your universe. But that’s okay because the guy down the street isn’t your neighbor.
I’ll skip boxes if there is not a candidate I can support. If there is a third party candidate that I can support I will vote for him/her.
The guy I don’t vote for will not be in my univers either.
Look Jolly I refuse to vote based on the fear plank of the republican party. They give me something to vote for them for and I will mark the box.
Just as others have said, on this thread, I vote based on what I can learn about the candidates and make a reasoned decision about whom I believe to be the best candidate of those from whom I am allowed to choose. That’s the reason I voted for Perrot. And I survived all those years of Clinton afterwards. But as many elections as I’ve voted in, while most candidates have had (R) after their names, I have NEVER one time voted straight ticket. I have always voted for the individual candidates in the individual races, and what’s more - that’s the way I’ll do it next time, too.
Jolly
This problem with the RINOs has been going on since GHWB’s term in office. I have been screaming about voting the rabble out for just as long. Furthermore I have caught more heat than can be described here for talking about voting third party. You know what I hear when I talk that way….
Well you are going to gaurentee that Democrats are going to be voted in.
So let me be real blunt here. Just WTF do you think I should do.
I am sick of the say one thing do another Republicans, to include many of the current front runners in the prez race.
You and others tell me the stakes are too high to take a chance letting democrats in the door. Are you kidding me? The republicans are giving away this country just as fast the democrats. When does it stop? When do we nut up, suffer for a time and do some “HOUSE” cleaning.
So now what huh?
Dang: Bigjolly and Squawkbox smackdown, here, semi-live tonight, and for free!
Thanks BJ for doing you civic duty to keep us informed about the Demcrats. It’s a tough job, and you da man! My head woulda exploded listening to that crap…
southerntragedy
Which crap? Me or the debates?
So. After all this we find that BigJolly is really a liberal. I’ve heard of wolves in sheep’s clothing but liberals in conservative clothing? Oh the shame… the shame.
That was a joke BigJ (since you mentioned you were humor-impaired earlier today).
8^)
LOL. I spend an hour and a half watching crazy people, taking 6 pages of notes. Then I post about it and toss in a line about conservatives being nuts (fools) if they let one of these guys get into office because of some sense of whatever. And I challenge said conservatives to watch them and see if I’m right.
For that, I’m blasted because I’m pro-union (ie, think that unions have a place in today’s society, a position that I outlined and was never challenged on btw), like Lorrie Morgan, had a civil chat with a fellow human being about that, told that I’m fear mongering, told that I’m insulting specific people and laughed at because I said I care about my children’s children. What fun that was.
I’ve told you when to do the house cleaning but you refuse to listen. I’ve told you that at the end of the day, the choices are what they are. If your fellow citizens present you with options that don’t measure up to your standards, I’ve told you that I will go ahead and pick the one that is closest to me because to do otherwise allows those that are further away from my point of view to win. You call that a defeat. I call it doing the best I can. To each their own.
The democratic debate, Squawk! I was just reading your crap! :0 Jist kiddin’, shuug!
Dude/Squawk, what part of “W, with all of his glaring faults (the amnesty bill being the latest in a long string) is STILL light years better than Kerry or Gore” don’t you guys understand?
In the general electtion, W was the best choice, IMO. For all my disappointment in the guy, I haven’t lost a bit of sleep in voting for him.
Lemme see if I can put this in a way that BigJ et al can understand.
It is almost impossible to unseat a republican in a conservative district. It doesn’t matter if he is a liberal, as long as he has an R after his name.
So, if he wins in the primary (assuming there is even an opponent), he’s going to win in the election.
I, and apparently Squawk, am tired of getting more government, more taxes, more spending, and less freedom from Republicans. So, I’m skipping boxes, and voting Libertarian more an more. I don’t like all of the Libertarian planks, but I think I’d like a bad libertarian better than a bad republican.
So, this from a guy who started WORKING GOP campaigns when he was 11 years old….
Do you think I left the party, or that the party left me? I know what I think.
You should really never skip a box in the general election. I believe, personally, even if you vote for the 3rd party, you should vote for someone who most closely matches your values.
And yes, I know I have my litmus test that may cause me to skip a box, but that is probably rare.
Even though I do not place an X in a box I still have registered my vote. I spoke my mind at the polling place.
All my life I have been told that the ballot is where I make my political statement. Seems to me the message is loud and clear and unmistakable.
WINO is exactly spot on in his comment about me. Ain’t no apparently about it.
JimB
Bush is no better than Gore/Kerry so don’t give me that crap. The SOB has given this country to Mexico, increased spending, refused to close our borders, bowed at the alter of the UN, spit in my face with his statements, tried to be all things to all people to hide his personal little agenda and Mission accomplished was when the man that tried to kill his Daddy was hung.
#72 Squawkbox
He did give us Alito and Roberts.
“Even a broken clock is right twice a day.”
And now that I thought about it some more.
Bush has increased “foreign aid” to every half baked dictator out here. Every time he gets his butt in a bind he send billions more dollars to some country for any reason. He has increased the size of government with FEMA and several other agencies. While he did not “endorse” Kyoto he agreed with the global warming crowd and committed the US to the same outlandish we gotta take a lead requirements that Kyoto proposes. He has endorsed taking our FOOD and turning it into a fuel that does not save us fuel.
NO BUSH IS NOT BETTER THAN GORE OR KERRY.
WINO
Yeah and he finally did what should have been done about terrorism but that would not have happened had 911 not occured.
And as far as I am concerned the jury is still out on Roberts and Alito.
Well, you and I will just have to disagree on that one. ‘Specially with Gorezilla.
Honestly, I thought you would have not gone there. I wouldn’t expect to hear that from anybody but some of the Kos kids.
But let’s just say that I’m glad we didn’t have to find out if Bush was no better than algore or Ketchup Boy.
And you know good and well that there are 3 or 4 situations, minimum, where Bush would have stood head and shoulders above Gore, for sure. 9/11 for starters. SCOTUS nominations, for another. Stem Cell research, also.
Granted, Bush has been wrong more than right at this point. But he’s been right, IMO, on more occasions than the proverbial broken clock.
That doesn’t mean I don’t expect better, and that doesn’t mean I will blindly vote republican, but if the primary doesn’t go my way, and my only real choices are Bush or Gore/Kerry (knowing that I didn’t regard the 3rd parties highly at the time, I will vote Bush. Every time.
And not lose sleep.
If you had outlined a conspiracy theory on 9/11 I wouldn’t have challenged you on that either, I’d just ignore you like I would a moonbat koskid.
What I care about in a political forum is stomping a mudhole in the political opposition and walking it dry. Any way it can be done. And no, I don’t give a flying [deleted] whose friend said liberal might be.
For the record, I don’t really think of BigJ as a moonbat liberal. The point was that if I took the time to challenge every piece of [deleted] I read on this blog, that would be my full time job. Since I actually do have a real job, I content myself with debunking the crap I read as I find time to do so.
Interestingly enough, one of the points Big makes about unions is that they make it easier for management to deal with one collective unit rather than have to deal with individuals and their respective merit pay increases. Convenience from the point of view of management seems a pi$$ poor reason to support a rather interventionist, anti-capitalist organization like a union.
I am an hourly employee. I will take my chances with dealing with management on my own. I’m a capable adult. If I don’t like what they are willing to pay, I have the freedom to walk out the door and find a job somewhere else. That’s the ultimate expression of a free market economy to me.
I don’t feel the need to give my money in the form of dues to someone else to bargain for me, nor do I need a “big brother” to arbitrate disputes that arise in my place of employment. It seems to me that being pro-union is a rather liberal position to take from both the fiscal and personal responsibility points of view.