I guess GOP Chairman Mel Martinez (R)-FL missed the memo about the US becoming less dependent upon foreign oil.
Florida’s U.S. senators are finding themselves in an all-too-familiar situation: protesting yet another bid to explore for energy off the Florida coast.
Republican Sen. Mel Martinez and Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson are teaming up to fight a proposal that calls for spending $10 million to conduct a seismic inventory of the “oil and natural gas resources of the Eastern Gulf of Mexico.”
“I’m committed to defeating this provision,” Martinez said in a statement. “It might have made it out of committee, but it won’t survive on the floor. Florida’s waters are protected; a survey would be pointless and a waste of taxpayer resources.”
Hey, I’m all for using foreign oil and saving our own resources until we have a monopoly on them but Mr. Martinez’s position doesn’t match up with the general party position or good common sense. This isn’t even the dreaded drilling, which seems to frighten everyone, even though we’ve been doing it for years successfully in the Gulf. It is a survey for crying out loud.
A spokesman for Craig said the two senators are “clearly on the record that we ought to produce more oil and gas domestically, rather than buying it from third-world dictators.”
”In order to make responsible decisions about our future oil development we should know what we have,” said spokesman Dan Whiting.
It would be nice to know if we have a couple of Saudi Arabia’s off our coastline, wouldn’t it? Is it any wonder that the GOP is in trouble on a national level?
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No wonder at all….Need to fire 95% of the bureaucrats and start fresh!
Heh
heh heh
heh heh heh
Muhwahahahahahahahaha
The sorry SOB was probably just following Hastert’s lead in calling for congressional inquiries into “excessive” oil company profits.
Nope.
That’s our man Mel Martinez, head of the RNC….. friend of his esteemed colleague Sen. Bill Nelson. Do you feel my pain? We are in huge trouble because Martinez wants oil exploration anywhere but his back yard and because Mel is ineffective as a leader of the RNC. He can partner with the democrats all he wants…..on his own time. Fire Mel Martinez.
Martinez and the Chairman of the GOP are also blaming us, the people on losing a chance to solve the Immigration problem by scuttling the SHamnesty act. They both need to drop dead
Hey, I’m all for doing a survey of the Gulf to find out what (if any) kind of oil reserves we have out there. What I DON’T understand is why the our gummint (re: taxpayers) has to foot the bill - to the tune of $10MIL, no less. I would think that the big oil companies could/would/should conduct any seismic inventory on their own dime.
As to Mel, the Senator NIMBY from FLA - my most charitable explanation for his stance is that he wants to be re-elected and he knows his constituents don’t want any hint of off-shore drilling off their pricey beach-front property.
I wonder if Sen. Mel Martinez has shared his views with Cuba, Mexico, China, Venezuela and other countries that are willing to drill near our waters. Maybe Martinez should demand they not drill close to “protected” waters.
Which Dem was it that didn’t want the windmills in his Cape ?
Playing the Devil’s advocate, and as an expatriated Floridian, Senator Martinez is listening to the majority opinion of his constituents. I happen to disagree with that opinion but it’s still a majority opinion of the citizens of Florida, and not just the Gold Coast Yankees. I don’t see his position as being any different than that of our two Senators listening to us on the amnesty bill.
I disagree hamous, it would be as if everyone were fighting the immigration problem except for florida. An exploration does not an oil platform built. Nor does found oil mean destruction of the coast. Are we sure the Floridians as a whole are against it?
aw - why explore if you’re not going to build? They’ve got a really good idea there’s oil there, its just a matter of pinpointing it. I agree wholeheartedly that we have come a long way in building safe oil and gas platforms. That’s why I say Floridians are wrong on the issue. And its not just Florida. Most coastal states are against drilling off their coasts. It comes down to states’ rights. Now I would be all for some plan that requires states to pitch in, so to speak, on working towards energy independence. Texas and Louisiana drill off their coasts. The midwest produces ethanol. Add a fuel surcharge to states that can help but refuse to. But I will say this. I work for a company that does a lot of material testing for the nuclear power industry. We’ve recently received information on new permits in the works for nuclear power plants. A disproportionate number of them are in Florida. I’d say that would offset their unwillingness to drill on the coasts.
Besides my obvious “here we go again” librepub gig… this is indicative of the greater problem that has existed in fuel politics for many many years before Bushco.
1. Shinerblonde is exactly correct when she asks why the gubment has to fund the exploration.
2. the United States under GWB and a one time Republican controlled Congress and Senate has not implemented a self sufficient energy supply policy. In fact Anwar has been for all practical purposes been shelved.
3. the US energy policy is inexorably linked to the Middle East and Middle East politics.
4. the US energy policy includes policies that call for using our food supplies as fuels, conservation mandates that do not address securing home based fuel supplies and ignores that carbon based fuels are what drives our economy.
Here is a slam toward those that say that Bush is only in for big oil. Not really. If it were so he would have found a way to turn loose oil exploration, oil drilling in our reserves and building new oil refineries in the US (did you know that China and Iran imports over 70% of their processed oil IE GAS). In fact if the US had its crap together the US could be the oil refining capitol of the world (and do it cleanly) and the money would come rolling our way. There has not been a new refinery built in the US in 30 years. Oil supply is not the problem. Refining capacity is. No administration has addressed this problem to remove the obstacles in over 30 years.
A prime example of ignorance breeding more ignorance.
I agree with Shiner too, that Oil should do it’s own exploration. I thought they did their own. Yes we need refineries built. Our environmental lobby won’t allow that to happen.
I agree too. But what does any of that have to do with the citizens of the State of Florida choosing not to drill off their coast?
I need to know, is it just coastal Floridians who don’t want the drilling or all Floridians?
Why can’t these two politicians go to their constituents with this idea…….. We understand you want a pristine coast line and enjoy tourism. We also understand you are screaming about high gas prices. If we can explore and show you a way to retrieve oil without hindering the beauty or toursim, will you let oil companies explore?
Well all Floridians live within 60 miles of the coast. And as fuel prices go up I suspect you will see more folks willing to lift the ban. But to answer your question I guess it depends on what you define “coastal Floridians”. Of the four largest cities, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando, three of them are on the coast. Orlando is only about 45 miles inland.
hamous
I believe that I pointed out that this whole thing is a part and parcel of a greater problem… I.E. a comprehensive national energy policy.
The United States both singularly and collectively have “protected waters” itself into a position of energy weakness.
Hamous, agree 100% with you on the local senator angle. My take is that he is the head of the party. Perhaps that is why he’s been the worst head of the party in my memory.
Hey folks,
Remember that Senator Mel Amnesty was appointed RNC Chair by El Presidente Benedict Arnold personnally.
BTW, after listening to the excerpts of Hannity’s interview ithe the driveling idiot Senator George Voinavitch (R-Ohio), I suspect that most Senators, both R and D, are driveling idiots. It’s not a partisan thing. I think all Federal candidates should be required to take HIV, STD and IQ tests.
Kind of a truth in politics requirement.
If one is a true Conservative, then get with the “Impeach Bush” movement
I don’t see the purpose of impeachment. I do see a problem with Mel. Mel is gonna be a ” more of the same” kinda guy.
Sorry but Bush has not commited a provable impeachable offense. If he had the demorats would have already started the proceedings. Frankly with just over a year left till the next elections what would impeaching Bush accomplish? We would get Cheney. So what? Impeach him too and go right to Nancy P.? Sorry it just does not make any type of political sense.
Charge Florida more for OIL.
Lunatic fringe
In the twilight’s last gleaming
This is open season
But you won’t get too far
We know you’ve got to blame someone
For your own confusion
But we’re on guard this time
Against your final solution
We can hear you coming
(We can hear you coming)
No you’re not going to win this time
We can hear the footsteps
(We can hear the footsteps)
Way out along the walkway
Lunatic fringe
We know you’re out there
But in these new dark ages
There will still be light
Ten Million for a survey? Give me five million and I will get them a survey and some oil, just let Exxon Mobil or whom ever is qualified to drill have a go at it, wild catters welcome, good luck and Godspeed.
P.S. Bonus Bucks for bumping out Chinese/Venezuelan/Cuban rigs, equipment, and vessels.
I can understand florida not wanting dirty sand and ugly beaches, but I would think drilling has come along way…….. and their must be improvements in how things look and are done.
hamous #11:
They probably don’t know how good the fishing is around those rigs.
There is a SUNOCO with a burnoff about 6 mi out from the old camp, it was beautiful and the best.
Never a drop of oil from that platform and the fish were clean.
There was a time in the not-too-distant past when you could not walk on a Texas beach without getting tar all over your feet. I know that’s not the case now. But when tourism is the main industry in your state it’s no surprise you would be sensitive to such things. As I’ve said, for the third time now, I disagree with the drilling ban. But it is their state. They get to make that decision. Do we want Floridians telling us we have to build the TTC?
Uhhh Hamchuk
If I am not mistaken the feds control and issue the permits where drilling is to be performed. Furthermore the feds control the offshore waters. ANNNDDD Many of those tar balls that show up on beaches can be attributed to naturally occurring events.
Sorry, didn’t read most posts, but I ask you this: What crappola 3rd world country is totally INdependent on OIL? Hmmmm?
Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for the drilling. But can anyone name the country? Interesting~
Venezuela
#33: uhhhh, no…
#30 hamous
I beg to differ, we had that camp since 1951 and the only oil to come ashore came from ships emptying its, I think bilge is the term, it is now illegal.
The stories about oil coming from platforms is rumor.
#34
Ok you asked, I answered…. don’t keep me hanging what is the answer to the $64,000 question.
Second guess? Mexico
And the beaches are brown, as testified here by some scientist, because the way the current moves from Nawlins west, or, as I say, the bays are mud pits.
Squawk, I thought I saw an article where Brazil didn’t use gas anymore. They used sugar cane. I could be wrong. Have been before, and I’m sure, will be again. That’s why I love y’all keeping me on my toes!
I’ll research who it is, but at a later time. Or you could do it for me, and correct me!
The jars are boiled and am fixin’ to make some apricot jam. Wish me luck. This, and orange marmalade are the toughest one’s to get perfect. At least, for me. sigh…
#31 Uhhhh Squawkie:
http://www.mms.gov/aboutmms/FedOffshoreLands.htm
ST
I heard something like that. I know that there are countries independant of fossil fuel for their electricty.
The problem is that a third world country uses no where near the gasoline equivolent in alcohol based fuels. Fact-o-the-matter is that we cannot grow enough stuff to provide for our fossil fuel needs.
Hammy
I said “If I am not mistaken”.
/Hmmm now I have to dig deep and find some convoluted way to save face.
Uhhh well OH YEAH!!! Says you. So there. Hmmmph.
#35 Nat - I don’t doubt that most of the tar came from bilge water. I’m just sayin’, offshore rigs in Texas, tar on beaches in Texas. Perception. And I’m also familiar, and agree with why the water and sand is brown on the upper Texas coast. Once again, it is the right of the citizens of Florida to decide whether they want offshore drilling or not, at least within 16.2 km of the coast.
The annexation treaty of Texas, thank you General Sam, Texas extraterritorial jurisdiction is about 200 miles.
Nat, I don’t see anything about extraterritorial jurisdiction in the treaty:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/texan05.htm
Correction:
“In 1836, after securing independence from Mexico, Texas claimed the offshore boundaries observed under Spanish, then Mexican rule. Sam Houston, president of the new republic, successfully maintained sovereignty over all submerged lands in the Gulf out to 10.36 miles, or three marine leagues. Texas entered the Union in 1845 with its boundaries intact, and defeated an attempt at federal control of the tidelands in the 1950s.”
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=38618
I have been looking, I read the treaty, and knew I had read it somewhere, I had read it, and my mind went hyperbolic during the exchange and did not pay attention to specifics. (Fishermind thinks offshore is more like 60 miles and it worries about the Chinese/Venezuelan/Cuban oil seekers between Florida and Cuba.)
*Note to self, when referring specifics know the answer.
#45 - The “10.36 miles” is the 16 km referred to in my #39 with the Submerged Lands Act of 1953.
It is interesting that Texas and Florida are the only states with mineral rights out past three miles. I wonder what the history is behind that exception?
No need for us to be drilling out there - leave it to the Cubans and the Chinese, then we can buy our own oil from them, allow them to sully our beaches with inferior technology, and then blame them for screwing things up. Typical bureaucratic arrangement where finger pointing has evolved into an art form.
Mel Martinez has got to go. What damn good is he doing any of us?
Get lost, Mel! Everybody hates you!!
A couple of points here. Firstly, Brazil is not a 3rd world country. I didn’t like it as much as home while I was there, but it can’t be categorized as 3rd word nonetheless. There are some incredibly poor people (by our standards) there, but there is also a surprisingly fair sized middle class.
Secondly, there are a multitude of uses of crude oil aside from fuel for automobiles. Even if every automobile in any given country uses pure ethanol, there are lubricants and plastics used in the automobile that used crude at some point in their production. Considering that Brasil has a national oil company, it would be pretty difficult to call them an “oil independent” nation. Mexico has PEMEX while Brasil has PETROBRAS.
BTW ST, I wasn’t trying to pick nits. When your income depends on the stuff it’s hard not to make sure misconceptions are corrected. Here’s a list of some of the products derived from crude oil (from OPEC’s website):
Gasoline
petrol
liquefied petroleum gas (LPG)
naphtha
kerosene
gasoil
fuel oil
lubricants
asphalt (used in paving roads)
naphtha
gasoil
ethane
ethylene
propylene
butadiene
benzene
ammonia
methanol
plastics
synthetic fibres
synthetic rubbers
detergents
chemical fertilisers
the oill refined from the texas coast should be sold to texans. the refineries that we have should be closed if they export gasoline to other states. the gas sold in texas would be just that ours.
let FL CA and NY live with it. we have to pay for the epa rulings on our air plus because we have these refineries here in houston we houstonians must now use 10% corn in our gas that penalizes us even further with the poorer gas mileage it produces.
We just need to find out how the Klingons made their cloaking devices and use them to hide the oil platforms off our beaches. That way we can get the oil and keep the view pristine.
#50 Dude: I stand corrected. Thanks!
Gregg that’s it and of course ” the invisible man” technology too. I do think things have improved for exploration and drilling since we did this in the past.
Dude,
Rio Sucks, but Macaee rocks.
Simple
ST,
No problem. I wasn’t trying to be a nitpicker, but I know I come off that way at times. It’s just that oil puts food on my table in more ways than one and I have to believe accurate information should be presented.
SimpleSimon,
You do make a good point. Rio de Janero has quite a bit of crime in the Centro district where I laid my head for a while. Ipanema is a pretty sweet beach though.
Bom dia, boa tarde, boa noite and bonus nachos.
Thanks for the earworm, Dude. When you least expect it, expect it
BONUS NACHOS??? WOW, gimme some of those, Dude!
I love the Klingon cloaking & Invisble roughnecks ideas, too. I am continually AMAZED at the ideas we LSTer’s can come up with to solve the world’s problems! Why aren’t any of us running for office? Or are we?
Happy SUN-day, peoples! I hope those of you who need a respite from the rains get to see some El Sol soon.
The quote #45 is attributed to Jerry Patterson, Commissioner of the Texas General Land Office and below is from the Texas State Library & Archives Commission.
I will make conjecture Texas making claim to submerged land because of original claim by the Spanish which Sam Houston defended and retained and was codified during the “Tidelands” crisis, Florida, also having been under Spanish dominion was attached to the Submerged Lands Act of 1953.
or
Culturally those oil pumpers must scare unaccustomed folks, especially with the current press, back in the day pumpers were clustered everywhere and aroused similar emotion as when one stands before the flag. The worst thing about it was not having one on your property.
Gotta love those ol’ Spanish land grants.
#57 Dude: I don’t consider you as a nitpicker! I’ve been wrong before, and will again. That’s why I love the people on this blog! YCGAWSH! ™
However, I DO want to quit being dependent on foreign oil. I remember how Hugo, Fidel, and ??? want to cut us off and they are forming a coalition against us, and bring us to our knees.
I don’t give a rat’s behind that if we start drilling in ANWAR, that the caribou aren’t gonna be “getting lucky” anymore.
Visiting Galveston as a kid, years ago, I also thought the tar on the beaches were due to the oil platforms. Oil lost from a platform is lost revenue. Most of the tar washed up on Gulf beaches is the result of petroleum springs on the continental shelf. These springs seep hundreds of thousands of gallons of crude oil each year. I’m not a petroleum engineer but I think there is no way to tap them, except to drill from the source reservoir. The earth has been dealing with (”metered”) oilspills for a long time.
How did all those fossils get way out there and so far under the ground that, to my knowledge has always been under water.
Could it be that black gold was formed by some other process than rotting dinosaurs?
Cosmic debris
#65 Nat Pierce
There is a school of thought that believes petroleum is a continually produced material and not fossil. I can’t remember the reasearcher who has written on this. I’ll have to look back into the subject.
#63: southerntragedy: completely agree, if we utilized ANWR to it’s potential, we could tell the rest of the world to kiss our collective American keishters!
BTW, I did some work for a Alaskan energy exploration company a while back, and I assure you there is no lack for room for the caribou to mate. In fact, the opposite is true, as where the are pipeling facilities and compressor stations, predators like wolves tend to avoid the areas, and the caribou thrive, as I’m told.
Fact: In 1970, the USA led the world in oil production; I don’t know where we are now, but it ain’t first. The point is, the demand for energy drives every economy, and oil has been a commodity for 10000 years. So that is unlikely to ever change.
What’s changed IS THE SOURCE WHERE WE OBTAIN IT! Instead of producing it, and getting paid for producing it, oil companies can now just buy it from the Middle East. THey then charge the cost to the consumer, while they profit for the refining, handling and distribution. Even though the effects for the country are deleterious, the oil companies still make record profits, but without the risk and cost of having to prospect and find the sources themselves.
I also agree with Sqwuak: it’s not so my that Bush has been pro big oil. To me what he has been is consistently more interested in pleasing his Saudi, Mexican, and Chinese business interests, at the expense of the best interests of the nation.
In other words, he’s a sell-out. Using his father’s own words, to me he’s just a ‘one world order’ socialist, and his continually questionable judgement and actions lend creedence to that assertion.
And he should be impeqached for dereliction of duty in the fact that the US border with Mexico is still wide open 5 years since 9/11 now, IMHO!