The cemetery tombstone for a teenager who died in a car wreck was repossessed after a $750 bill went unpaid.
“That’s just business,” said Linda Anderson of Memorial Art Monument.
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That is ridiculous and totally wrong. The headstone actually cost about $50.00 and there was 700.00 profit in it.
I’m no headstone salesman; I don’t even play one on the internet.
But what does one do with a repossessed headstone? Surely it’s not like there are folks out there looking for a deal on a used one. Or are there?
It was obviously not a priority of the parents to see that the bill for the headstone was paid. The monument company IS a business, and if the sentiment card was played every time, they would be out of business.
Someone ordered that marker and agreed to pay for it. I fully realize the emotion of this issue, but the fact of the matter is the company that provided the product should be paid unless they agreed to donate the marker. I’ve buried two parents and I didn’t expect to not pay for all their funeral arrangements.
Are companies suppossed to give away their product? I thought this was a conservative capitalist site! Personal responsibility and all that.
As a small bidness owner, I have had customers not pay for their orders. I have had to eat thousands of dollars worth of work and product! Now, they pay before I go to press. I don’t start until the money is in my hand. Sorry, but it ain’t a hobby. I don’t need the practice. I feed my family like this.
Maybe the family should have gotten a less expensive marker and saved for a better one later.
It is business. Otherwise the monument company would give them away….
Exactly. If the sentiment card was accepted every time it was played, small businesses like us would be devastated. I deal with churches and Christian schools, and if I don’t get my money upfront I don’t know if I’m going to get it. And no, I’m not going to extend credit and then pray I’ll get paid. That’s what has killed a ton of Christian bookstores already.
What is the monument company suppose to do with this already engraved headstone? I thought they got paid before they made the headstone. But ultimately, business is business!!!!
Shakey,
Some of my worst customers are churches and religious groups. I’ve had them nickle and dime me to where I made nothing on jobs. Then they have the nerve to turn around and complain!! Everyone has a “ministry” that needs me to help them out. Jesus needs your t shirts. I once offered to help out a ministry (from a Christian musician) by having them purchase shirts at my cost and I was going to print for free. He wanted the most expensive t shirts in the catalogue and balked at the price. The guy had the gall to put on his website that if anyone could do better to email him. Then I said forget it, you’re on your own, not one ounce of graditude either! If I had a dollar for every church or “ministry” that screwed me or whined about the deal they were getting, I’d still be in the red! Now I just say 10% discount and leave it at that. My best ministry is my family. I give to whom I choose.
Typically, upon ordering, a small deposit is made on a headstone and the balance is due after installation. They can take weeks, or even months, to be made and delivered. And contrary to what Dov said, the freight alone will exceed $50.
#9 Faster
Yep. When I first started my business I gave all churches and Christian schools net terms. It almost put me out of business.
Cash up front, credit card, whatever - No pay, no ship.
Wow, a “cheapskate Christian” thread. You would have thought that I would have started this one.
Actually, I have had similar experiences. I’m sure there are myriad reasons why the “cheapskates” are as they are, but I would suppose that an overriding reason would be their belief in the justness of their cause. One of those “end justifies the meeans” things.
Your hesitation in doing business with some of these groups are well founded. It’s a shame though, in a way, that it damages their “witness”.
It really makes me look at churches and ministries differently.
But,also, some of my BEST customers have been churches too! They understand that I am giving them a good deal and do good work. They order tons of shirts and stuff and realize what it actually costs to produce them and don’t expect anything, but when they get a good price, they are appreciative.
I’ve seen too many “ministries” with their hand out trying to guilt me into giving them stuff.
I am thrilled that you guys think Christian groups are un-trustworthy.
Perhaps you should restrict your sales to non-Christians, that way you would be rich beyond your wildest dreams. Sell only to Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Satanists, Atheists - ANYONE but those skanky, un-trustworthy Christians.
Especially those of you that market specifically to Christians.
12 athiest mike
You are 100% right!
“it damages their “witness””
How are they going to reach anyone for Christ when they put their “ministry” first and leave out the one that they are ministering for?
The thing is, it becomes THEIR ministry, not God’s. They are doing it for themselves and not for God.
People that do not understand see them as they appear, to be cheap and whiny. I want to toss them out the door, not welcome them. But, I do the 10% off thing and pay up front. Problem solved.
I’ll give more if I feel like I should, but I need to pray about it.
In God we trust, but all others are liable for incurred expenses. Why should religion exempt you from paying your bills?
bj
Obviously, you’ve never been fleeced by someone in the name of Christ?
Only to have them whine because the job you should have charged them $2,000.00 for wasn’t good enough, fast enough and costs too much (when you charged them about $200.00). I’ve given goods, materials, artwork and time to some that whined about it. Not a good way to spread the good news.
I’ve been fleeced by people of all religious beliefs, of all colors, of both genders. Life happens.
Perhaps a “Bash Christians Here” thread should be a feature so that everyone can get it out of their system first thing in the morning.
On the other hand, I’ve done business with some fantastic church groups and people. People that I actually look forward to hearing from.
As a matter of fact, I am fixing to make a sales call to one in a few minutes and see if they need anything. It’s the ones that come in and mooch and mooch and mooch and do not appreciate anything. Where are they relying on God in all of that? God is a much better source than I am.
#6 Fasternut
Hey, if your product tastes good, I’ll help you eat it. Just let me know.
“I’ve been fleeced by people of all religious beliefs, of all colors, of both genders. Life happens.”
The one that calls me ‘brother’ is the one that disappoints me more than one that does not. I shouldn’t have to look out for someone that supposedly believes like I do.
20 Smack
Too bad I don’t own Bluebell….
Knew some people who had a “ministry” years ago and lived hand to mouth, month after month - saying God will provide. Became entangled in an ongoing dispute w/ them because my way of thinking was (and is) God provided you with a brain and two hands to work with while they claimed that was an indication of my lack of faith.
When the leader of this ministry’s mother died (not unexpectedly), they had no $$ to bury her or have her cremated. I went with them to the funeral home and witnessed them beg and grovel like gypsies - it was humiliating and HORRIBLE. The funeral home comped the cost of a cremation.
I was no longer involved w/ that ministry afterwards.
Those damn Christians. Hey if you can’t beat em, then maybe you should join em!
I think many people are untrustworthy. Christian groups are composed of people. Are the people that make up Christian groups inherently more trustworthy than other people simply because they are part of a Christian group? My answer to that question would depend on whether or not I’m the guy getting stiffed for the bill.
When you have a group constantly “preaching” morals and ethics and then you get burned by said group on many occasions, you tend to become a little gunshy.
At least with Jews like Gregg, you expect them to screw you over in business.
(that’s a joke, so nobody flip out)
add to 26:
http://wav.unclebubby.com/wav/SOUNDFX/rimshot.wav
I will just say this: I have been in the Christian business world from many aspects, including some of the largest megachurches and mega-million-dollar ministries.
Suffice it to say my negativism was developed based upon what I “witnessed” (pun intended).
#23 Liz
Ah, the old “begging and groveling” Christians who think prayer will pay the bills while they do whatever they want besides work a real job.
They’re right, assuming they find suckers like me who are/were too naive to know otherwise.
I’m always fascinated by people who are surprised when someone, of faith or not, behaves badly. People are people. They are flawed, greedy, angry, jealous, hateful, and they are also good. We are supposed to know the good ones by their fruit, not by their labels or sugary words. Anyone can call themselves anything, but you will know the true man through the fruits of his labors.
Prayer WILL pay the bills. But, God isn’t some kind of celestial ATM machine and all you have to do is pray for the card and the PIN number.
1 Peter 4:11
…If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ.
# 14
Defensive much?
#30 Jeremy
Headshaker is a teddy bear, Fasternut is a t-shirt and I’m a truck. It’s all clear to me now.
I make it a point to not do business with people who put jesus fishies in their ads. They’re trying to tell me I can trust them because they’re special, and it has the exact opposite effect on me.
When I see one of those it makes me think that they’re trolling for the mindless, that the “symbol” says everything you need to know about that person and there’s no need to look any further. It’s no secret they are the biggest rip-off artists in the world.
33 smackie
http://members.aol.com/Al5010/sounds/NUTS.WAV
# 10 Texpat
It has been a decade however I purchased one at cost through a friend to donate it to a family who could not afford one. It was a plain simple headstone that laid on the ground so to speak. Including the name etc and installation less than a hundred dollars.
I also purchased a plain black wooden coffin for use at a Halloween party. Another hundred bucks.
The markup in the funeral industry is huge. Yes it is a business and the parents should have paid however there were probably other ways to handle it.
“It’s no secret they are the biggest rip-off artists in the world.”
Not true. A Christian owned business does not mean they are going to rip you off. Pretty blanket statement there. Would you say that about Arab owned businesses or black owned businesses? I am very up front with my beliefs. But, I’ve been ripped off by non believers as well. I have Churches and Christian groups as customers, but I treat them all the same. A good product at a good price. Churches are made up of people (as said earlier) and people are imperfect. Otherwise we would not need salvation. However, it is disappointing to get the shaft from one of “my own”.
But, as a whole, they are no worse or better than anyone else, just that the expectation is higher because of the belief system involved.
How sad! The friends care for the poor kid more than the parents. But still, have these stoneheads never heard of writing off a business loss?
#34 - I do business with folks who offer the product I want at a competitive price, and look for honesty and stability before I look at religious affiliation. As a matter of fact, I don’t run into many businesses that wear their Christianity on their sleeve, so to speak, and I don’t really go out of my way to find out.
That said, most Christians I know operate pretty much the same way when doing business. We’re largely not the stupid folk you would believe us to be.
Can we talk about Marvin Zindler on this thread?
you just did…
34. houstondem
Why am I not surprised a Democrat would make bigoted, crass generalizations about Christians?
38. Narly
I’m about to have to write of a big loss. Since you say it’s no big deal to you, would you mind subsidizing me on this?
It’s good to know that you all think Mormons are Christian. We don’t get that most days of the week.
#44
Yeah, lots of folks don’t believe Catholics are Christians either.
Go figure.
Didn’t that pope guy just say the nobody but Catholics are Christians?
/smiling from the sidelines
Um, Mormons are not Christians…
I ain’t saying who is or who isn’t a Christian, but I need a credit card number before I go to press!
That is a result of my ‘brothers’.
All I’m saying is that anyone that calls him/herself a Christian ought to act like it. Otherwise you may sour people who aren’t believers against you.
Hypothesis: No human being has the right to determine who and who is not a Christian.
Only God has that right.
Is that right?
#48 Faster
Amen Brother!
In the interest of preventing some very surprising results in the hereafter, it is in the Church’s interest to point out those churches who are incompatible with Biblical Christianity.
That said, it is possible to be both Mormon and Christian, in theory at least, but the Mormon church is most certainly not a Christian church.
Is Dr. Ron Paul a Christian?
Dunno - Couldn’t tell you.
I wish y’all would hurry up and figure this out. Make it simple. All true Christians line up to the right to receive your gold star on your forehead so there will be less future chaos and confusion.
Move the line along folks…
I have one rule in business,
In God we Trust, all others pay cash.
I could care less if someone is a charitable organization or they are “doing the Lords work”. I figure it this way, rather than give them a “discount” I can donate at my leisure. Oh and they do not know who the donation is from either. If they don’t like MY TERMS every thing is okie dokie with me, I still have my merchandise or service, they still have their money, no harm no foul.
Oh btw. When I do extend payment terms, wanna know which group of people are my BEST paying customers as for on time payments?
Lawyers.
Ron Paul is a cannibal, isn’t he? I don’t think that’s very biblical… cannibalism that is.
Catholics…the original Christians.
All others are knockoffs.
;)
Jews, the original Christians…..
You know what I think? I think that some people make emotional decisions and not sound business decisions. In other words, they didn’t do their homework. And when their bad decisions came back on them, they blamed the “Christians” in order deflect their own culpability.
Personal responsibility. It’s where it’s at, baby.
“I think that some people make emotional decisions and not sound business decisions….. they blamed the “Christians” ”
Because that’s what they called themselves. And, I will not take a Christian at their word again (because they call themselves one) as a result.
Credit card number, that little three digit number from the back of the card and an expiration date please, brother. Your order should be ready in 7-10 working days.
So you will take the word of a Muslim? Or an Atheist? Or a Shriner?
My favorite customers are those that pay. The ones that give me the most laughter are the ones that say
1. We are a charitable organiztion
My Reply: I’m not
2. We can get the same thing down the road cheaper
My Reply: OK
3. The other guy extended me credit
My reply: OK.
4. You are not going to be in business for very long with this attitude.
My Reply: Really?
/glances at Cigar smoked stained DBA certificate on the wall and chuckles quietly
and it goes on and on.
I figure it this way, I do not give ANYONE a chance to rip me off. If someone rips me off then I must have set the rules that gave them an opening to do so.
P.T. Barnum is not a hero of mine for nothing.
I’ll not make those mistakes again. So, when the children’s ministry that wants shirts for Vacation Bible School and has a small budget. I’ll think long and hard before helping.
I don’t care who they are. Credit card number and expiration date before I go to press.
“So you will take the word of a Muslim? Or an Atheist? Or a Shriner?”
My own sister had to pay me first if that answers your question. Never again.
So, in other words, you learned and changed your policies. Yet you keep focusing on the Christians that harmed you, as if no other group of individuals has ever let you down. Understandable given your faith and the higher expectations.
I grow tired of the daily assaults upon Christians, the cherry picking of negative stories about my faith. But hey, that’s just me.
Dov,
You don’t teach at UH do you? If so, I was/am one of your students.
Don’t worry nobody will know it’s you…;)
57. tedtam
Actually, the Coptics came before you guys. You’re the knockoff.
61. Big Jolly
You’re hurting my feelings! You mean you wouldn’t take my word?
And stop lumping me in with Shriners!!!!!!
fam, I will take your word! Don’t sweat it. Just have a high credit score over a long period of time.
I’ve never had an athiest mooch off me for a “worthy cause for athiests” or even approach me and say “I’m an athiest, could you cut me a deal?”
I’ve had Christians do that. I could go on and on.
In the business I am in I do lots of business with churches (they order tons of shirts). I doubt many other businesses get mooched off of as much as I do. Everyone is doing some kind of fundraiser or special event and needs me to do their shirts at a special price. Can’t do it. Sorry, I pick my charities carefully. I had a lady wanting me to donate shirts for ‘pug rescue’ get all crosseyed with me because I wouldn’t come off my price for her “charity”.
Churches and ministries are a special sore spot for me because of this. Having dealt with the ugly, greedy, whiny, unappreciative people I have had cross my path, I won’t do it any more. I am just very disappointed with members of my own faith. Not that it causes me to lose faith, but seeing how they behave in their business life and even as representatives of the church they serve.
I am not a muslim or an athiest so cannot comment on them, but I can see how they would view Christians negatively when they get the same kind of reactions I do as a believer.
70. Fast..
I don’t view Christians negatively. I view negative people negatively and positive people positively.
71 mike
Man, If yo had to deal with some of the people I had to, you surely would!
#65 BJ
Stop your crying. The Jews have been persecuted a lot longer than you have. Why are Christians so wimpy?
I don’t think Faster is persecuting Christians. I think that he’s right - Christians often push for cheap or free goods and services because of their mission. A mission that, by the way, I support.
However, Christians should be careful when dealing with businesses - the mission may be great, but it isn’t fair to have people bullying others into damaging their livelihood in the name of that mission.
Thanks jimb.
“it isn’t fair to have people bullying others into damaging their livelihood in the name of that mission.”
That, and just being grateful. That would help go a long way!
I have given until it HURT ME and see a person hop into a $50,000 vehicle whining about what I GAVE their “mission”!
I would trust an NRA member before I’d trust a church member. There’s too much for me to post here, but trust me, it’s a wonder I am a believer. I just know it isn’t God’s fault, but the people that claim to serve him.
Not just me, but several business members I know feel this way too! When I started my business, a lady at church that owns a business approached me: “Look out for Christians, we are the worst people to do business with! They always want something for free and will try to make you feel bad for not giving” She was right. Worse than cops mooching do-nuts and coffee!
Someone saying they are a Christian means squat to me. We may not go to heaven based on our works, but it sure goes a long way to others here on the ground in the meat suit!
I’m not persecuting, just observing and reporting on. I also stated that some of my best customers were Churches.
This is a poor business practice that came back to bight the head stone company in the tooshie. Never deliver the stone until payment is made. I have heard many times over, ” she couldn’t afford the stone for her son’s grave” That’s because smart stone businesses do not set the stone, until payment is received. Now that the stone maker has had to repossess, he is receiving bad publicity. There is admonishment in the bible about paying your bills and not being in debt…. so the Christians back then had their ups and downs too…… just no credit cards.
If the stone business were doing this work as a Christian gift, and then reneggd or took the stone away……. that would be different. This was a simple business transaction……
FWIW, I didn’t say anything about being persecuted. Of course, it rarely matters around here what someone says. What I said was that, for whatever reason, Christians are singled out as the “worst” everyday around here and suggested that we start a “Bash Christians Here” thread so people can get it out of the way at the beginning of every day.
bj, it’s not about bashing Christians, it’s about bashing Hypocrites.
Most here do it against Hypocritical Democrats (and sometimes Republicans) every day, so what’s the difference?
#78 BJ
I don’t think anyone wants to bash Christians. I found a great plumber who advertized as being Christian based and he is worth his weight in gold.
I have also known Christian’s who enthusiastically wore their religion on their sleeves (and business cards )and were so heavenly minded they were of no earthly good - especially when it came to fair business practices.
Big Jolly I agree that Christians are singled out, but I think its part of what is written in the bible. It’s aggrivating and sad, but its part of the future.
Anyone who preaches one thing and practices another is singled out, not just Christians.
#82, No prayer before football games. Removing the bible that was in front of the courthouse. No prayer at graduation or mentioning God by the valedictorian. No scenes of the nativity in public places at Christmas. The Christmas play and party are now winter events. Churches being sued for displaying their nativities on their own lawns. Teaching evolution only. Thats all I can come up with right now.
#83 aw
Those are completely separate issues from what we’re talking about here.
Superman, it’s all part and parcel. Are we confusing being a Christian with asking for things ” in the name of Christ”? This is confusing. I’m not sure non-christians have any better track record for doing right than Christians. I just keep remembering the part about taking the wood out of my eye.
jimb…you are wrong. The Mormon church is a Christian church, they believe Christ is the center of their religion. You need to educate yourself.
Some churches profess to call themselves “(Name)Christian Church”. If you are a real Christian you don’t have to say you are, just your actions will tell that you are one. It is distasteful to constantly remind others that you are a Christian. Many people get hesitant to do business with someone when someone who says, “I am a Christian” as if to boast about it.
#86 vlou
From what I have read, the Mormon version of “Jesus Christ” is not the same as in the Christian Bible. Any Mormons out there, correct me if I’m wrong, but they believe that Jesus was a person, like us, but was able to be elevated to god status. And any one of us can do the same, and rule our own worlds. “As God once was, we are. As God now is, we will be.”
The name used is the same, but that’s it.
#86 -
You’ll have to trust me that I know whereof I speak when I say that the Mormon religion is not in any way compatible with Biblical Christianity of any form. The Jesus they worship is not the Jesus of the Bible.
In Mormon doctrine, Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament and therefore was already “elevated” before he received a mortal body. The LDS belief in the Atonement of Jesus Christ (resurrection, forgiveness for sin through repentance) hinges on the fact that it could only have been accomplished by the Son of God.
But yet, he was still required to go through the same “process” as the rest of us. Not only that, but in Mormon doctrine, Jesus, contrary to the Jesus of the Bible, was just the firstborn among all of “Elohim’s” spirit children, and a literal “elder brother” to the rest of us. Not only that, but the Mormon god was also the spirit child of yet another “god” before him. There’s a whole lot about Mormonism that is not Christian. What I just wrote is scratching the surface.
Can I just make this clarification? It’s very sad but the term “Christian” has become very general and really doesn’t carry the full weight of it’s definition these days. A LOT of people slap “Christian” onto whatever for various reasons. Just because someone claims to be a Christian does NOT mean they are a born-again believer. Coupled with the fact that unfortunately even born-again believers are humans too and are not perfect just forgiven you end up with a lot of hypocritical attitudes and people. As for myself I try to do to others as I’d like them to do to me. I also know MANY Christian businesses that are very honest in their dealings. Unfortunately the chunk of population who hides under the term “Christian” has given the REAL Christians a bad name.
*Oh and as a side note–I did not mean to EXCUSE anyone, just wanted to try to clarify that not all are like that.