While I think Bush & Chertoff’s newfound urgency in border enforcement may be more of a “Ok, you asked for it!” situation, there is some good news coming out of the rejection of his amnesty bill. NRO has an excellent op-ed today on Bush’s recently announced stepped up enforcement measures:
Some of the measures included are just continuations of current policy (completion of about half the border fencing by the end of next year, for instance) or not likely to have major impacts (expanding the number of foreign criminal gangs whose members are ineligible for visas). These efforts are welcome, but should be routine.
Should be routine but haven’t been for a while so it’s about time. A bigger change, and this could really be a cultural change, are penalties for employers who ignore the no-match letters:
The new rule sets out common-sense steps an employer must take upon receiving a no-match letter to ensure that he won’t be held liable if the worker turns out to be an illegal alien. Social Security is now sending out these letters to employers with more than ten mismatches that make up more than one half of one percent of its workforce — covering about 80 percent of all mismatches. Most employers are likely to follow through the process and, if necessary, fire those workers who turn out to be illegals (most of whom will likely have left anyway by that point); while some may re-hire the workers off the books, “An employer who does that,” as Secretary Chertoff points out, “is making a deliberate decision to compound their legal difficulties by committing tax crimes as well as immigration crimes.”
The underlying rationale for ensuring that no-match letters are acted on by employers is to turn off the magnet of jobs that attracts — and keeps — illegal aliens here. As it becomes harder to get a job, and as the jobs illegals can get are less stable, sneaking across the border or overstaying a visa will become less and less attractive, and illegals already here — especially those with fewer attachments — will start deporting themselves.
This requirement alone will probably do more to decrease the number of illegal aliens already present while simultaneously providing a disincentive for new illegal border crossings. And there are some other steps being implemented that can greatly effect this cultural change in how we control our borders:
Along the same lines is another, less-noticed measure in last week’s announcement. The administration says it will begin to draft a new rule to require all federal contractors to use the online system, redubbed E-Verify, that enables employers to check if new hires are authorized to work in the United States. This probably won’t identify a large number of illegal workers, but it will change the environment, representing an important step toward internalizing legal status as a labor standard.
As Krikorian points out the Bush administration is expecting, and counting on, an outcry from the farm lobbyists. But we’ve heard that argument before:
Lobbyists for farmers and roofing contractors and others will soon be screaming bloody murder. But Congress and the media would do well not to take at face value the squealing of firms losing their cheap-labor subsidy. When the end of the last big guestworker program was being debated in the early 1960s, California farmers claimed that “the use of braceros [Mexican guestworkers] is absolutely essential to the survival of the tomato industry.” Instead, termination of the program prompted mechanization which caused a quintupling of production for tomatoes grown for processing, an 89-percent drop in demand for harvest labor, and a fall in real prices.
Yeah, all of these measures should have been implemented many years ago, but better late than never.
Filed Under Uncategorized ·
Hell lets fry those pesky republicans anyway How dare they be late!
Penalizing employers who employ illegal immigrants is a fantastic start. I would hope that social benefits to illegals is next on the chopping block, but we’ll see. In any case, this is a great first step regardless of the motivation behind it.
Dude
What social benefits? (Yes I know schools and hospitalization)
But I think they will start going home now - its over - it will take a couple of years but the exodus was already starting acording to the ICE 2006 annual report
Could we actually be winning one?
Amazing!
Optimism is a great character trait. Being a duped over and over is not.
I can only hope this is true. But I will stay on the side of “I dont buy it” for now.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING can happen without first securing the borders, then we can deal with illegal aliens here. A guestworker program is probably the only solution since we probably can’t get a hold or grasp of the total illegal alien population that is already here. At least with a guestworker program we can get them registered and accounted for and give them some starting point for getting citizenship which should be longer than the way the legal aliens are properly doing it. The problem can only be solved with a starting point.
Daniel, I used this joke to describe the Wobblyheaded One but since he’s banned himself from LST I’ll bestow upon you the title of The Barber. Love ya, man:
A man was getting a haircut prior to a trip to Rome. He mentioned the trip to the barber who responded, “Rome? Why would anyone want to go there?
It’s crowded & dirty and full of Italians. You’re crazy to go to Rome.
So, how are you getting there?”
“We’re taking Continental,” was the reply. “We got a great rate!”
“Continental?” exclaimed the barber. “That’s a terrible airline. Their planes are old, their flight attendants are ugly, and they’re always late.
So, where are you staying in Rome?”
“We’ll be at the downtown International Marriott.”
“That dump! That’s the worst hotel in the city. The rooms are small, the service is surly and they’re overpriced. So, whatcha doing when you get there?”
“We’re going to go to see the Vatican and we hope to see the Pope.”
“That’s rich,” laughed the barber. “You and a million other people trying to see him. He’ll look the size of an ant. Boy, good luck on this lousy trip of yours. You’re going to need it.”
A month later, the man again came in for his regular haircut. The barber asked him about his trip to Rome.
“It was wonderful,” explained the man, “not only were we on time in one of Continental’s brand new planes, but it was overbooked and they bumped us up to first class. The food and wine were wonderful, and I had a beautiful 28 year old stewardess who waited on me hand and foot.
And the hotel-it was great! They’d just finished a $25 million remodeling job and now it’s the finest hotel in the city. They, too, were overbooked, so they apologized and gave us the presidential suite at no extra charge!”
“Well,” muttered the barber, “I know you didn’t get to see the pope.”
“Actually, we were quite lucky, for as we toured the Vatican, a Swiss Guard tapped me on the shoulder and explained that the pope likes to personally meet some of the visitors, and if I’d be so kind as to step into his private room and wait the pope would personally greet me. Sure enough, five minutes later the pope walked through the door and shook my hand! I knelt down as he spoke a few words to me.”
“Really?” asked the Barber. “What’d he say?”
He said, “Where’d you get the lousy haircut?
#6 Duh…. This has been repeated for years (in a million different ways) because it is the only logical solution.
#7 Hammie Land sounds like a wonderfully magical place, with rainbows, butterflies and chirping little birds singing sweet twittery songs. It rains jelly beans and gum drops and life is happy all day long.
What luck for rulers.
If you go into the New Zealand immigration section of the web you will find all the jobs listed with qualifications. If a job is available and not filled then I would be okay with it being filled by someone from any country with the qualifications but this hiring illegals and dumping them on the tax payers to support is not only wrong it is shameful. Worse yet is the practice of working the illegals and not paying them. Agencies could be set up to help the employer find the correct person and bring them in for the job but, when the job is over they go home. And this selling of citizenship by boosh 1 and 2 is terrible.
I got it Kittycat. I’m a dumb citizen. Bush is the Fuhrer. Enough with the Adolf Hitler quotes, please.
9 Elizabeth
“#7 Hammie Land sounds like a wonderfully magical place, with rainbows, butterflies and …….”
Yeah, in the daytime. But at night, the clowns come out…. scary evil clowns.
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/EPH/8140~Evil-Clowns-Posters.jpg
Since you said please…ok.
Wrong thread but you said something about unprecedented outcry and amnesty….the border in 2007?
Hey wasnt 911 in 2001?
Maybe you like having your chain yanked but I dont.
Thats were the what luck quote comes in. Six years later, the patriot act, a never ending war, oh we are so scared, etc etc etc and the border is still not secure.
Tell the stupid barber joke again will ya?
#13 …and all the “chirping little birds” are game birds.
#14 - the “unprecedented outcry” to secure the border did not occur until this year. It started building with the protests in the spring of 2006. The Minutemen may have been instrumental in waking up the sleeping giant but there was no “unprecedented outcry” until they tried to ram the amnesty bill down our throats.
Unless you include eliminating the payments of welfare, rent assistance, food stamps, education, etc. and striping the non-profit status from organizations like Casa Juan Diego who provides safe harbor and protection to illegals it is all a scam meant to fool you.
It is like drinking and driving, until they prohibit the sale of alcohol within 200 feet of a gas pump and check for drunk drivers as they leave sports and concert events they are just playing with you and are not serious.
How much does it cost to remove an illegal immigrant from government assistance? 00000
Build a wall? Billions
How fast can you do it? today
Build a wall? years.
Excellent news!
I just checked and my strategic investment in a Mexican ladder manufacturer has already increased in value.
19
Why not invest in America?
20
Taxes, Unions,
Fasternu - investments go where markets demand, not where ideologues wish. Markets are ACTUALLY democratic, including labor markets. So as a policy I’m for expanding legal immigration, not building a wall. But since they’re building a wall, actions have consequences. The Mexican ladder makers and manufacturers of digging implements (and coyotes and crooked border cops) can now profit from the folly.
Of course, I’m joking about the investment, but not the underlying thesis. Show me a 50 foot wall, I’ll show you a 51 foot ladder. best,
Ladders made in China using prison labor is more profitable.
Grits - How do you explain the success of the wall in and around San Diego? It may not completely close the border but it will sure make it more difficult. Couple that with sanctions against employers who flaunt the laws and you start winning battles.
I never get this line of reasoning from the open borders crowd. Show me a 120 mph cop car and I’ll show you a 130 mph Hot Rod. Does that mean we should not enforce speed limits? Show me a bulletproof vest and I’ll show you criminals that aim for the head. Does that mean cops should stop wearing bulletproof vests? Silly.
Hamous,
I actually believe the employer sanctions will be far more effective than a wall.
Stopping the practice of “catch and release” when illegals commit felonies will help also.
We might also seize the cars of the uninsured and dwi offenders, although I believe this should be done across the board, but it would have a negative effect on illegals.
Will these measures be 100% effective? No! but neither will a wall. Fixed fortifications are a monument to the arrogance and stupidity of men.
Simple
Hamous,
Have you ever seen the cost of housing in San Diego? I work for a San Diego based company and I would quit before accepting a transfer to San Diego. Don’t know how an illegal could afford to live in that place.
San Diego doesn’t need a wall….They have ReMax.
Simple
Simple, I pretty much agree, but all the measures together make for an effective strategy. Make it more difficult to cross illegally (a fence in the more accessible areas), make less jobs available to illegals, and deport immediately once caught. Pretty soon it won’t be worth trying to cross in the middle of the desert for a job that might not be there.
The ILLEGAL immigration issue need not be a one solution fits all.
Build the border fence where it makes sense. IE New Mexico, Arizona, California. Texas already has a barrier that could be enforced if we want to.
Deny Jobs, welfare, and schools to ILLEGALS. Deny ILLEGALS all medical care that is not emergency care and deport the emergencies as soon as practical.
If we need more foreign labor, then post the available positions, but make all applications for LEGAL entry to be filed in the workers county of origin by the individual wanting the legal status.
These and other reasonable steps do not have to be mutually exclusive, do all of them. Only then will we begin to secure the border.
#27 I don’t think they were stopping in San Diego. That was just an easy place to cross. Tijuana is a huge city full of destitute people next to a non-existent border. It used to be one steel cable four foot high delineating the border.
“completion of about half the border fencing by the end of next year”
Anyone else but me think that the effectiveness of this can be measured by where the first half is actually constructed?
The federal government should require hospitals to notify them that they’re caring for an illegal so they can be deported as soon as they’re stable enough to leave the hospital.
The feds should also require schools to notify them when someone attempts to enroll a child without a social security number.
I’ll believe Bush & Co. are serious about immigration enforcement when they threaten hospitals with the loss of medicare / medicaid money and schools with the loss of their federal funding for failure to report illegals.
Major problem here. The SCOTUS has ruled that denying health care and education to illegals is unconstitutional. About the only thing Bush can do there is to appoint judges that may be inclined to revisit those decisions and he’s done that.
We don’t have to DENY them care - just make sure that ICE is there at the hospital to pick ‘em up after they’re cared for!!!!
Also - in re education - if the schools would just report ‘em to ICE, they wouldn’t have to educate them very long.
If Rick Perry refused to allow education and other benefits to given to illegals what will Bush do?
Send down the National Guard?
They are just playing good cop bad cop and the majority of Americans are accepting it.
Building a wall is arrogant and stupid? I suppose if Simple Simon were an advisor in China back when the hordes of invaders used invade them, he’d have advised against the Great Wall.
And then there’d be no China today. Sometimes the simple solutions just plain work best.
Besides, housing costs are the reason why we see 12 families of illegal aliens living under one roof. It’s happening everywhere, not just San Diego.
Building a wall makes sense. Will a wall stop the most determined? No, but it will make a flood of illegal aliens become a mere managable trickle.
It really is that simple.
#34 & #35 - Both of you are asking the Governor to do something that the SCOTUS has ruled is unconstitutional. See Plyler vs. Doe. I think it is a gross misapplication of the 14th amendment but until it is overturned the ruling stands.
http://www.tourolaw.edu/patch/Plyler/
I believe Gov. George Wallace balked at a SCOTUS decision once. Remember what happened? JFK sent down the National Guard.
Arkansas Governor Orval Faubus balked at a SCOTUS decision once. Eisenhower sent in the 101st Airborne Division and federalized the Arkansas National Guard.
First let me state nothing will happen because the politicians are playing us for fools and in many cases they are correct, too many just suck in the party crap and swallow it.
#38 you are comparing apples to oranges, these people are illegal and are not protected by our constitution no more then someone living in Italy.
We the people are the owners of the country, we make the laws the supreme court follows. If Perry was honest and had the balls the people in Texas would rise up and support him, Bush would be powerless to fight us. But too many citizens just want to complain and whine then work to change it.
I am seriously thinking about changing my views on this and figure how to profit from it.
Uh, Hamous, the success of the wall in San Diego? Huh? Have you been to southern California? They have a much higher proportion of illegal immigrants than we do in Texas. How are you defining success?
Holy Cow, AZ! I’m not complaining and whining. It is settled law. The highest court in the land has ruled that they are protected under the 14th Amendment. You can’t just ignore the ruling because you don’t like it. Our only legal recourse is to elect Presidents that appoint judges that do not legislate from the bench.
#41 Uh Grits, very few are crossing along that stretch of border because building fences works. Expand the fence in areas as described by trl3 above. If they move to another location build a fence there. Repeat as necessary. Simple.
Everyone focuses on a wall, it is a trojan horse. A game just to delay any real change. We can cut all benefits now, today.
And all this round them up and deport them talk is worthless. In order to deport someone it requires another country to accept them. What if, in this case, Mexico refuses to accept their citizens back??
You do know that ICE is under DHS now? As such, it is a federal matter, not a state matter. I know a guy who works for ICE pretty well. He tells me that knowing where to find illegals isn’t an issue for them. Their issue is dedicating manpower to the highest priority cases, and schoolkids and ER cases just aren’t their highest priorities.
#42 I do not claim you and many others simply complain and whine. Many people like us get involved and try to find solutions, but we are the very few.
But leave a five mile open gap so butterflies can migrate…
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/jason-aslinger/2007/07/26/reuters-border-fence-will-harm-butterflies
Was there something more than sugar in our Frosted Flakes when we were kids?
Legally, how?
Seeing is believing. The day the government actually does something is the day I will believe they are serious about this problem. They are too good at giving lip service. Those we elect are masters of deception, subterfuge, and double speak. When the Mexican understands he is NOT going to be allowed to steal from us, that’s the day I will believe the feds. The demos are determined this will be a huge voting block for them. The Pubs fantasize that they can win them over. Most in office do NOT give a rats behind, the effect this illegal situation has on us…. the taxpayer.
While I agree with the frustration level with the government on this topic to some extent, the utter pessimism displayed by some folks on this thread is surprising even me. It took us many years to get into this situation and it will only be fixed incrementally.
Hamous is spot-on about the SCOTUS aspect of denying benefits to illegal immigrants. The fact that I don’t like Rick Perry in many ways doesn’t mean that he has the power to wave his governor’s wand and make things happen in violation of federal law. Take a reality-based approach to this (as opposed to an emotional one) and the results will be slower in coming, but they will come nonetheless.
Basara,
I would point out to you that despite the wall, China was successfully invaded by the Mongols.
I should have given credit to my remarks about fixed fortifications. It came from General George Patton.
You must be a decendent of one of the french strategists who thought the Maginot Line would keep out the Germans.
Walls can be breached, burrowed underneath, destroyed, gone around, or just wait until poor maintenance lets it crumble into uselessness.
Simple
AZ,
Which part of the constitution or Bill of Rights denies basic rights to anyone because they have been accused of committing a crime?
As I remember it there is something call “due process” in the 14th amendment.
Simple
Elizabeth
Not just butterflys. There are Ocelots, make sure there are lots of Ocelots. They will cover the unwalled area ano one is to blame but those fed to the Ocelots LOL
First, Hamous, half of all illegal immigrants from Mexico (maybe one or two points less than half, actually, if I recall) come through checkpoints legally and overstay their visas.
Another large cadre of unknown size come through the checkpoints thanks to corrupt guards. It’s only a small percentage overall who cross the border in the desert, anyway. (Plus the drug runners have dozens of tunnels underneath the border, to boot).
Also, there are many hysterical pictures of all the ways people get over that wall out there - I published a few of them once. After you’ve traveled all the way from Chiapas or Guatemala, the wall doesn’t stop anybody.
Finally, there’s no river in southern Cal. If we finish the wall in Texas, it will be the first in history a nation state with a river as a border put up a fence and left the river on the other side! A fence restricts law abiding Texans’ access to the Rio Grande more than it will functionally stop illegal immigration.
Where are the free market advocates when you need them?
as for 50 foot walls and 51 foot ladders, so be it, let them drag 51 foot ladders around in the desert, b/c the’ll need them to get down the other side of wall and then their ladder won’t be available to the newcomers, as it’s inside our 50 ft wall, with a 30 foot deep moat, so bring them on. (don’t forget about the alligators in the moat)
THE OTHER POINT that no one has brought up in this posting is : TERRORIST, remember these guys…a wall will slow them down, and make it more dificult to sneek in…of course, GWB, just calls them “kids” from Fridays speech at the Whitehouse.
Look,
We’ve rebuilt Europe twice, Iraq/Kuwait once, and have 40000 troops down on the DMZ in Korea, etc., not to mention those over in Europe, and elsewhere,
so how about WE DEFEND OUR BORDERS FIRST in lue of defending everyone elses.
Charity begins at HOME.
Dude hit the bull’s eye. I thought the same thing earlier today and couldn’t find the right words to say it. Dude did.
This constant yacking and yacking on, “What to do?” while wringing our hands has pushed many over the edge. And not just concerning the border issue. Are we a nation of whiners and yackers or a nation of do’er’s?
Grits, not sure where your statistics come from since you have no links but this is what I find:
Even taking the low numbers its still a substantial amount of illegal border crossers and certainly not a “small percentage”. And while the numbers of OTMs are increasing most are Mexican citizens:
The fence scheduled to be built is not a 50 high fence running the entire length of the southern border as you suggest. It is strategically placed physical barriers in high traffic areas, electronically monitored virtual fences, and a drastic increase in BP agents.
mkoch
Stop it. I dont need common sense. I need more nonsense.
We could have just added the 10,000 BP agents except the funding was snatched. Why?
Why are we not protecting the Homeland from terrorists?
What luck hey?
#58 Hey, you promised.
Why not build a canal.
The TransTexasWaterway could connect the Pacific with the Gulf.
Sorry. I did. Keep me in check OK.
They tried a canal across Florida. Salt water intrusion nearly ruined the fresh water supply for the whole peninsula south of Ocala until Nixon finally killed it in the early ’70s. Yet another one of FDR’s New Deal boondoggles.
Bush throws a bone… will the faithful chew it up? He has no credibility, zero. He has encouraged this lawless behaviour for almost seven years.
It is one of the biggest reasons we have the problems we have in this country today and in a post 9/11 world. Look what happened in New Jersey to those four students.
From Bush all the way down to Mayor Sanctuary City White and many like him in other cities, they have promoted law breaking because they have refused to do their jobs in the first place.
Bush should have been impeached years ago for his refusal to do his job and secure this nations borders, but like most in government, he is accountable to no one.
And many activist judges should have been removed as well for legislating from the bench but since the fix is in and the jig is up, we know that will never happen.
…and Phil gives up.
Here’s Newt’s solution to the criminal illegal alien problem.
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/08/11/video-newt-calls-for-special-session-of-congress-to-address-criminal-illegal-aliens/
h/t hotair
And here’s Newt’s famous speech on Fed-Ex vs. Bureaucracy with regards to illegal immigration. Too bad this man is not running for POTUS. He actually gets it.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=FedEx%20v.%20Bureaucracy&search=Search
# 37 Hamous
Question please
I have been pondering this for hours
#34 & #35 - Both of you are asking the Governor to do something that the SCOTUS has ruled is unconstitutional. See Plyler vs. Doe. I think it is a gross misapplication of the 14th amendment but until it is overturned the ruling stands
The ruling trys to rule on benefits to the illegals. However is it unconstitional to stop aide to THOSE businesses who assist the illegals ie: welfare, medicaid etc.
Just askin
Hamous
No sense in aswering. I searched it and saw the answer
There has to be a way
Hamous has made it clear, in order to assure the United States offers no incentive for illegal migrants and also does not transfer government responsibilities to employers; thus eliminating the cost of billions of dollars providing services to thieves and building unnecessary structures.
We need to concentrate getting judges that understand the constitution and re-submit to SCOTUS the legality of providing these services to illegal aliens.
Dov, if you can find one, short of the SCOTUS overturning itself, you’re smarter than the best legal minds in the country. Plyler says you cannot deny education to children based on their immigration status and further says you cannot even ask their immigration status. All you can do is ask for proof that they live in the zoned area for the school.
The way to remedy the situation short of the SCOTUS, and the way it appears the feds are moving, is to check the immigration status of the parents through their employers. We’ll see if it yields results.
I think the day literacy is cut by half is near, less and less do we see read this, it is watch this, and I think this amazing new technology that is going to change the world will have a down side.
Or am I jealous, having dialup?
We are a nation of doers……. as demonstrated by killing the immigration bill. Our politicians are a segment of screwers.
Nat
I see your point, however, the day literacy is cut in half is the day English is taught to all children regardless of race. Spanish speaking children are the only ones who are not taught English in our society. Every other race are taught and speak English. Why are Spanish speaking people not taught except in their own language? To keep them dumb? To keep them a slave class? This is absolutely criminal. Is this some reason for the democrats to keep them stupid so that they will vote for democrats? This is so wrong.
The local politicians blame the county politicians, the county politicians blame the state politicians, the state politicians blame the federal politicians and the federal politicians blame the judges. Lots of blaming going on but no solutions.
Patience? I moved here in 1986 and illegal immigration was an issue then. I understand it will take time to solve, but we are not seriously trying to solve it, we are getting more lip service. Didn’t Bush announce a year ago he was sending the National Guard down to the border? He did, unarmed, and they were assigned desk jobs, right? Didn’t the Congress approve building the wall? But didn’t the same Congress not approve the financing for the wall?
Supreme Court ruling on giving aid to illegal immigrants, I really do not care about that, they are wrong. We need a Governor with the guts to say no, but because of politics none will. And why isn’t anyone writing legislation to change the laws to fix the illegal immigration problem?
We jump for joy when we hear the federal government is going to get tough on businesses who hire illegal’s. What a load of bull, when was the last time your saw or heard on the local news that ICE cracked down on construction sites where illegal’s are hired? Never, and we all know many work in construction. Everyday I see lots of day laborers standing in the Home Depot parking lot at Bellaire & the West Belt, I have never saw or heard of ICE checking out anyone there. I have asked many times before, what about Casa Juan Diego? Why are they allowed to enjoy their non-profit status while at the same time proudly proclaim they give illegal’s a safe place to hide?
So we cheer as we bust the business that employs the illegal’s while we give them financial assistance and we support non-profits who assist them. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy?
Stop the assistance, crack down on the non-profits, clean up the street corners, and then maybe I will believe the government is really serious about a solution.
Some of you know better then I, but what is illegal about hiring an illegal?
aw
#72
You said it!
# 70 Hamous
What I found was the SCOTUS decision on Plyler - vs -Doe. However let me ask you this please.
If we can pass legislation that the Federal Prison System can not have funds to imprison Campos and Ramon why can we not pass legislation that “No American Tax dollars will go to fund anything that is not American”
Whoops I FORGOT. UN, PC .
However we could ask for proof that they live in the zoned area for the school. Fathers, Mothers, Their Drivers License..
Not Bills. I could have my bill in diddlywhoopswhatevers name
Dov,
you change it by throwing out the politicians who do nothing but provide lip service. Zero tolerance is what we need. You and I have to follow the law but these people do not, are we a nation of laws or not?
Yet you’re calling on the Governor to break the laws you don’t like. I just don’t get it. What am I missing?
The fence won’t work. Employer sanctions won’t work. But breaking the law will?
We the People make the laws through our legislators, correct? Why haven’t we corrected the laws to end free government assistance and education? Why hasn’t a Governor stood up and defied the Supreme Court? Why? Because they use the courts ruling as a reason not to take action.
I really do not care if it pushes our nation into a constitutional crisis, we have to follow the law in our everyday lives while a select few are allowed to spit on our laws.
What is the end result of this road we are traveling on now? Better laws or more lawlessness?
Accepting the concept, “putting the heat on SCOTUS”, is too big a wall to breach.
AZ
Dov,
you change it by throwing out the politicians who do nothing but provide lip service. Zero tolerance is what we need. You and I have to follow the law but these people do not, are we a nation of laws or not? (Kerry, Kennedy, Jefferson, on and on)
No we are a collection of states that have been gathered by politicians to do what is politically correct
And as much as I hate to say it. As much as I love the USA.
PC will be the end of the USA.
If we do not stand up we will be buried
Hamous, in the end it really does not matter to me. I will adopt to the environment I am in. If I have to I can return to Jersey, get into the family business and profit from all this, I will survive and protect my family.
But there are many who will not benefit from all this. What has happened to our America?
Hamous
I saw the Global Security dot org website statement
Its not an “Official” Statistic and the Border Patrol Statistic is not an official one either - its from their union rep in local 1672
THE ICE annual report shows that there are many pushbacks where people try to cross but run back - very few now cross the border thats why they are using drug smuggling tactics like false floors in cars and false walls in trucks
Also - a simple examination of birth rates in Mexico - if 2 to 10 million
were coming to the United States each year - Mexio would have run out of people long before the Carter Asministration
Eric
Pfffftttt!
#64
and Hamous continues to guzzle Bush-Aid.
Phil, phil, phil - you’ve read nothing I’ve said today. Who you gonna hate and blame in 17 short months? Crawl back into your underground bunker and do a fit test on the gas masks. I hear the helicopters.
Man, I was all pumped up with the action finally being taken. Now I see the sky is still falling.
Take a break people to pat yourself on the back, we are getting our point across.
Gonna need a lot more water stations for all those 51′ ladders being toted.
How many of us have been screaming this very thing throughout this entire debate? They are using our language folks, stay the course but welcome small victiories.
GJT, I’ve come to realize that most people cannot recognize victory, even if it whacks them upside the head. As you can see by the pessimism above.
Reagon would have been a failure in todays world.
Not necessarily.
This is one of the reasons I’ve always said that whern people say that “all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books now and the problem will be solved.” ignores one, central fact:
The laws we have on the books now suck dead birds.
We actually do need “comprehensive immigration reform”—just not the kind that was envisioned in the Shamnesty Plan.
We COULD craft new laws that deny finding in the appropriate areas to circumvent Plyler, and we COULD craft new, improved, “Plyler proof” laws.
Plyler shows how law existing at the time was manipulated and finnessed by people who took advntage of the fact that they were written before illegal immigration became a problem and the advent of Liberal Advocay Groups.
All we need now is some polticians who have listened to us and are willing to do the job.
I think that the Republicans are displaying to us that they have heard the message. If the Deomcrats have not or will not similarly display and understanding, then we ought to know what to do next.
BigJolly
My Mantra for the last 6 months
However, these procedures were passed in 2003 for implementation in 2005,06,07
That is true Sarge, but Tony Snow was out there over and over during the immigration bill debate saying the current laws actually do not allow strong penalties to employers. But we can do something can’t we without “comprehensive” reform.
#90, 91 - I become more and more convinced that there is a certain percentage of people out there that do not want things fixed. They fancy themselves heroes, like Kevin Kostner in “The Postman”. They want a post-apocalyptic “Mad Max” America so they can start from scratch.
Sarge
Republicans passed these laws in 2003, and 2005 for implementation in 2005,6,7
funding for much of it was blocked because of the “wiretaps” issue and privacy and the nomeclature of Democrat tricks
But they didn’t NEED to hear the people, the PEOPLE needed to HEAR what the PRESIDENT was trying and doing
If you have any doubt
please read the ICE Website - these activities have been going on long before the shamnesty bill et al
95
I agree, welcome to the party!
I’m going back to the recipe thread.
I’ll join you
After 100…
You sucker!
I think building the fence is a waste of money.
Never would have come up if they did the right thing from the start. Only thing that could be agreed on.
102
Ask England how well the moats been doing to keep illegals out remember we have what 6 times their population?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4637273.stm
Guess we need to let the prison’s know to tear ‘em down.
GJT
A prison has a controlled environment costing up to 26 thousand per prisoner per year and has up to 100 meters of walls and fortifications
Its a little different wouldn’t you agree
Englands Moat has not kept out 570,000 illegals despite the fact that green cards and quotas are much easier to gget in England
Scale that to the USA its the equivalent of about 3 million - also consider the fact that many illegals stop and live in Germany and France as well as Italy - Englands problem could be much higher
And these countries have strict immigration authorities
We fance and cry because outside of central africa the poorest people in the world live in Central America - next two by and large - the greatist country in the world
And we act offended that any President would let them come over - go figure - despite the fact that roughly a third of our country belonged to Mexico and spoke spanish
We seem to forget that
Look I’m for english being the language, I’m for working hard, pay your taxes obey the laws etc
Just the hyperbole over the border overloaded me a while ago
So save your backslapping heroics that you guys stopped the Shamnesty bill - you didin’t politicians used you as an excuse to not execute their jobs and left it up to the president to take the full heat from both sides
He has had a plan, he (Bushco) has been implementing his plan, much like Iraq, he’ not going to be popular
Had an A/C guy sell me on too small a unit one time that would not cool the house, he said my attic was too hot, ceilings too tall. I told him the Astrodome cools just fine, handle it.
We can build a fence that will work.
GJT, I think that in high-density areas, a fence is a deterrent with a pretty good ROI. In rural areas and the desert, it’s a waste of money.
Just my opinion, of course. And I thought conservatives were against cooling down sports venues with taxpayer dollars?
I can be convinced we don’t need a fence and still have a secure border, but don’t tell me we can’t build one that the masses can’t get over.
No, just wanted to use the one we had. 8>)
GJT
I’m not trying to convince you we don’t need a fence - in fact we need a fence around the high density areas always
And guess what they have always, always been there
some not so good, some too good, its a mixed bag
Also the Astrodome analogy was a poor one - it was considered the 8th wonder of the world for its airconditioning - it was so over engineered that the first killer bee movie used it as the place they froze the massive killer swarm in
But enough fun, these “new” measures are in effect because we had a president and a bunch of Rinos who passed these things when no one was looking and those critics are still burying their heads in the sand refusing to admit that deportations, arrests, detentions, are at the highest level in our history See the ICE report 2006 on the ICE website
It was a perfect analogy, it can be done. Killer bees notwithstanding. ;(
Hamous, on the issue of how many enter legally overstay their visa, it’s about half, see here. Nobody knows how many use coyotes and crooked cops to get through, but many of those are folks who tried to get through and were turned back by the Border Patrol.
As for how many people the wall actually stops, what you’re ignoring is that people try until they succeed. And they just have to succeed once, while to achieve your goals the border guards have to succeed every time. According to this source, “Almost two-thirds of the undocumented population lives in just six states: California (26 percent), Texas (12 percent), Florida (10 percent) New York (8 percent), Illinois (4 percent), and New Jersey (4 percent).” So the wall has resulted in California being the illegal immigrant capital of the nation, even though 2/3 of