CNBC to Ron Paul Groupies - No Mas - We’re Taking Down the Poll!
by David Jennings · 10/12/2007 12:05 amYou’ll recall that there was a debate this week featuring candidates for the Republican 2008 Presidential nomination. Being the good cable news network that they are, CNBC thought it prudent to put a poll up after the debate, sort of a “show of hands” to check the pulse of the viewers.
Well, that might have worked prior to the Paulbearer movement.
You guys are good. Real good. You are truly a force on World Wide Web and I tip my hat to you.
That’s based on my first hand experience of your work regarding our CNBC Republican candidate debate. After the debate, we put up a poll on our Web site asking who readers thought won the debate. You guys flooded it.
That’s right. The good doctor’s supporters decided to crash the party, as is their current modus operandi in this political season. CNBC boss Allen Wastler knew there was something wrong when he looked at the results.
Now Paul is a fine gentleman with some substantial backing and, by the way, was a dynamic presence throughout the debate , but I haven’t seen him pull those kind of numbers in any “legit” poll. Our poll was either hacked or the target of a campaign. So we took the poll down.
Why did CNBC take the poll down?
But you also ruined the purpose of the poll. It was no longer an honest “show of hands” — it suddenly was a platform for beating the Ron Paul drum.
And that drum is beat early and often. Is there any sanity left in the Paul supporter camp?
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282 Responses to “CNBC to Ron Paul Groupies - No Mas - We’re Taking Down the Poll!”Search
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“Is there any sanity left in the Paul supporter camp?”
What exactly is wrong with voting in online polls for our candidate of choice? Why is it insane to vote for the person we like in these “show of hands” type polls.
What is dishonest is spamming polls. Some integrity from supporters of the “Honorable” ron paul.
So I guess that only Ron Paul has supporters on the internet? And if the other candidates do have supporters on the net, I guess Paul supporters are the only ones smart enough to “spam” it? These excuses are lame. Isn’t voting the whole point of having a poll? So it is dishonorable to win the poll? These are sad excuses by people who don’t like Ron Paul (because they don’t like the constitution since it makes people responsible for themselves)
3
Why does Paul tank in polls his flock can’t manipulate?
Because no one calls his flock on their cellphones. Or maybe it’s because the Lan line polls don’t even mention his name as a choice. Hmm.
How do you manipulate a cell phone poll like what Fox had anyway? Only one vote per cellphone was allowed. I guess 3 Paul supporters went out and bought thousands of phones?
And I guess the people who go to Straw polls and pay money to get in are all holograms? Or maybe ghosts? woooohoooo creepy.
Let’s see….4 of 7 comments, all from the same Paulbearer.
Yeah, that’s about par for the course.
Nice one. I am proud of you.
“Is there any sanity left in the Paul supporter camp?”
Is there any sense of irony (not to mention judgment) left in the Paul detractor camp? Everyone knows that in elections what matters is *turnout*, which is a function of voters’ passion for the candidates and issues. Half the battle is just showing up, and in 2006 many Republican voters stayed home. In these on-line pre-election polls, Paul supporters show up, and you criticize them?
But I would be as dishonest as you to not acknowledge your point: yes, it is a common phenomenon that when an internet poll appears, members of a relevant minority will spread the word in order to use the poll to promote their candidate. And not only by internet: there was a famous case when Turks flooded Time Magazine with letters in order to get Attaturk named Time’s Man of the Century.
Come primary time we’ll see whether the Ron Paul supporters are just a few scattered but vocal nuts or a significant and growing faction tired of holding its nose to avoid the Republican stench of hypocrisy.
Possibly I can understand how a small organization such as the Lone Star Times does not have the money to properly fund IT such that your site would be impervious to the hackings of the few Ron Paul supporters out there. However, CNBC is not the Lone Star Times. They are a huge well funded organization.
If the CNBC site and internet polls are being hacked by Ron Paul supporters or anybody else they should fire their CIO immediately. Multi-billion dollar companies should be able to withstand the ‘hackings’ of the few Ron Paul nutcase supporters out there. Without doubt there are numerous ways of preventing a single computer from casting multiple votes.
Also, why is there never any PROOF of hackings or some kind of manipulation of a poll. CNBC should provide a detailed account (with proof) of precisely how their site was hacked so that the other incompetent IT departments at the other media outlets can get their IT houses in order. Until they can do so, they shouldn’t bother with polls. They obviously can’t handle them.
If the sites aren’t being hacked but are just being ‘flooded’ with individual votes by individual paul supporters then that is a different matter.
Taking a poll down boils down to one of the following:
1. We are a billion dollar company with an incompetent IT staff and an easily hackable web site;
2. We are nothing close to true journalists and believe in censoring the truth if it doesn’t match with our expectations; or
3. We have sold out and do what we are told.
Regardless of the answer, if I owned CNBC or GE I’d sell tomorrow.
For Rick, Matt, and the others…
Please take a look at the world around you. You are Texans, some of the most self-serving locales (I mean that in the nicest way), that I have had the pleasure to meet. Which is saying something since I work in a hotel as a building engineer.
That being said, why would you not look into Ron Paul? The man is extremely pro second amendment, is for the sanction of more personal liberties, for taking responsibility (of both personal and governmental facets), of bringing this country back to it’s grandeur (of which has been on a decline since 1912), and has sponsored 58 bills and four amendments to that effect. He has only ever voted as his oath to the constitution permits. Something that Danial Boone, and the others DIED trying to preserve at the Alamo.
Are you so readily willing to give your country over to Mexico (eight of the seventeen candidates, all “top tier” are joined in heading into the North American Union)? Where is your sense of patriotism? Think of those brave few that died against the British many, so that we could have a country; those same that drafted the Constitution…
“…The important thing for you to remember, Montag, is we’re the Happiness Boys, the Dixie Duo, you and I and the others. We stand against the small tide of those who want to make everyone unhappy with conflicting theory and thought. We have our fingers in the dike. Hold steady. Don’t let the torrent of melancholy and drear philosophy drown our world. We depend on you. I don’t think you realize how important you are, we are, to our happy world as it stands now.”
~Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Since Daniel Boone died in 1830, and the Alamo did not fall until 1836, I doubt that Dan’l was there. Perhaps you have him confused with Fess Parker, who played Daniel Boone on TV, and also played Davy Crockett in the movie, The Alamo. But then again, I don’t think Fess Parker died at the Alamo either.
#13 Please excuse my typo - Daniel Boone died September 26, 1820.
What part of Ron Paul being the Ross Perot of the 21st century are you Paul Bots not understanding? (wouldn’t shock me in the least to learn he was or is on Hillary’s payroll *in the background*)
Good Morning all Ron Paul supporters who check the internet.
Maybe the lesson for all of us is to be skeptical of all polls, and even the “legit” ones that are showing Ron Paul in the single digits. Anyone who knows anything about statistics and survey-taking can tell you that there is no way to entirely eliminate skew from the results of a poll. The questions and answer options are always going to have bias in them, and the sample has to be sizable and representative of the general population. And then even at election time those that were sampled aren’t always going to be the same as those that go to the polls to actually vote.
“That’s right. The good doctor’s supporters decided to crash the party, as is their current modus operandi in this political season. CNBC boss Allen Wastler knew there was something wrong when he looked at the results”……………………………………..Well it was obvious from the start that cnbc boss, NEOCOCN Allen Wastler had set up the debate to support neocon Mitt and neocon Rudy.
Every time it is the same story from you DELETED!!! are you telling us that you are not smart enough to set up a legitimate poll?? every single time??
GET OVER IT NEOCONS, IT’S GONNA BE RON PAUL OR PRESIDENT HILLARY!!!!!! THE CHOICE IS YOURS !!!!
You are welcome to comment and join the debate but please refrain from using curse words or psuedo-curse words. LST Moderator
Will those Ron Paul People ever learn?
Why can’t they just shut up, pay their taxes, send their children to die in foreign wars, and leave politics to the experts???
Trust me. We have “looked into” ron paul. I swear, on Fess Parker’s grave, boy have we looked into ron paul.
I can’t believe the pollsters are still using the ole poll spamspin. What 2 things really amaze me, that even after Hannity on Fox was busted with his “the Paulites are at it again” poll spam quote, after (I recall) the 3rd GOP national debate…every one with a cell phone tried to vote again only to be informed…”Thank You, you have already voted”. Sorry, like the War, America can’t be fooled anymore. I tried a second vote too!
I am even more astonished that 70 million voters in America can use their cell phones in one night to text vote for an American Idol, so I guess that means one of 3 things. Only Paul Patriots picks the Idols, or there are a whole lot of uniformed folks going to show up at the election polls and cast their blind votes for more of the same “politics as usual” since no poll has ever got 70 million votes cast or all the past Idol winners titles and contracts need to be revoked because of the Paulites. Wwaaa Wwaaa!
There is a lot more work to be done liberty loving America…Keep on getting the message of Constitutional Government, Liberty & Freedom out to every one you meet…truly the 2nd American rEVOLution!
Good morning, fellow Revolutionaries - and CNBC and GE Public Relations Department:
What a monumental blunder it was for CNBC to take down its post debate poll after seeing thousands upon thousands of Ron Paul’s supporters bothering to participate in it - while supporters of other candidates showed a only a lukewarm response. Did you consider that they are now joining the Ron Paul Revolution? What CNBC did is a form of news censorship and shows spinelessness on the part of CNBC’s management.
IF you want a poll to provide results to reflect the ones you sadly and erroneously think are “legit” then structure your poll just like theirs - and make sure you only call people without voicemail and/or answering machines screening their calls - i.e. call lonely people with lots time on their hands.
CNBC now stands for “Censorship, Nothing But Censorship” and that’s how I am going to refer to it from here on.
Thank goodness the sane Paul supporters are showing up today.
You know, Paul has a good platform. What is the best way to get the platform used by the nominee?
Just one question, when we take the only poll that counts (primary election day) and your boy only manages to poll less than 2% are all y’all gonna be blathering endlessly on for the next four years about how Diebold and the NAU stole the election? I’d like to know ahead of time so I can go ahead and get my lobotomy scheduled before the rush.
One way to understand a leader is to understand those who support him, RP’s supporters, the poll voters, the website supporters, and commenters, one not need look further.
I can understand young people leaning libertarian. They are out on their own for the first time, and want no one telling them what to do, including government. But supporters who are middle age and have read of RP, read history, and have an understanding of the bigger picture, confuse me. I think it’s like falling in love with an idea……. closing one’s eyes to the faults of the idea, and hoping for the best.
My points:
1. Spamming polls is not the same as hacking websites.
2. Paulites crawl all over the internet anytime an RSS feed with Paul’s name shows up. So they hover over their keyboards waiting for Dr. Paul to pop up on their screen and then descend en masse to support their boy. Big deal. Paul-People comment here all the time and then disappear to the next Ron Paul sighting, never to be seen again.
3. Everyone else actually shows up at primary elections and conventions, so it won’t be the same then.
4. I’ll say it again: Online polls and YouTube views are NOT accurate indicators of widespread support of a candidate, just a dedicated/fanatical minority of folks who flock to the very mention of Paul like, well, leukocytes (you can thank Hamous for the appropriate term).
5. I don’t even know who I intend to vote for in the primary yet, but I know that it won’t be Paul. I don’t agree with all of his positions. Some of his goals (smaller federal government, etc.) are OK, but his methodology is lacking, as is his apparent belief that we need to blame ourselves for other’s actions.
Dear Allen Wastler,
http://www.cnbc.com/id/21257762
Your job is to report the news. What evidence do you have to support your claim?
“Our poll was either hacked or the target of a campaign.”
Just so you know, I am one of the MANY Ron Paul supporters that did not get to vote in your poll because you took it down. I think my “show of hand” was not registered because of the overwhelming resonse you received in favor of Ron Paul.
I think the gig is up for the MSM. You all had this problem LOOONGGGG before Ron Paul decided to run for president in 2008. Here is a little factoid for you regarding the poll numbers that MSM relies on to present “scientific” data of who will get the popular vote. My company recently updated our phone number contact list. We have some 60+ employees in a professional banking environment. The average age is about 29 years old. Want to know how many of those employees listed cell phone numbers only? Try 42. Thats a majority of employees who only wish to be contacted in an emergency on their cell phones only. It wasn’t long ago that most people were not willing to give out cell phone numbers because of the per minutes cost. Why do you suppose that has changed?
Do you think the national pollsters call a majority of cell phone users? We don’t talk politics much at my job, however, every single person I have talked to at my smoke break knows who Ron Paul is. I think you guys are lagging pretty badly when it comes to doing your research and understanding what is going on in the United States of America.
It’s pretty sad that you so eagerly discount Ron Pauls freedom message because you don’t understand how the internet works. I am sure if the poll was a “show of hands” of who do you think is better CNBC or FOX and CNBC got 75% of the vote, you’d splash that all over the front page.
Anyways, I care less about your reason for pulling the Ron Paul poll win. He has been getting this kind of support for a while now, and its predictable how you and people in your position will respond. Of course there is a campaign going on. Its been going on for a long time now, and I have no doubt it will continue long after the next president is decided in OVER A YEAR from now. Its too bad MSM is out of touch with America, because really what you are seeing is not spam or a “conspiracy” hatched by a “few”.
We the people are taking our country back. You and your organization have 3 possible choices to make.
1.) become a part of We the People and have an American voice. (doubtful, too much money to lose doing that)
2.) stay non-biased and report the FACTS as news so that ALL Americans can decide for themselves. ( doubtful, too much power to lose doing that)
3.) keep the status quo and give your opinion based on what YOU THINK is going on despite the facts. (probable, the America people are too ignorant to know how to do their own research and besides, as long as the corps keep footing the bill, we recycle those same tried and true scripts ad nauseum.)
Too bad for you that THANKS to the internet, people now have a legitimate tool to gain access to the real story. I think one of the bylines in history will be how miserable journalism performed in the information age. People new back in the 80’s that computers would cause huge efficiency gains. They new that the tech revolution would end jobs. Guess it was hindsight to realize that technology would rip the “heart” out of “journalism”.
You seem like a brave man Mr.
Allen Wastler
Managing Editor, CNBC.com
You followed in Sean Hannity’s foot steps and accused the biggest grass-roots movement in the history of the USA (dare I say World), of scamming, lying, cheating, hacking, etc etc.
I hope that for the sake of Mr.
Allen Wastler
Father? Husband?, American Family
that you do the right thing and evaluate your stance on the position that Ron Paul represents and not get caught up in your job. Ask yourself, if one of the MSM/Big Corp/CFR/Globalist front runners had “fake poll” numbers like Ron Paul posts up, would you be so willing to accuse THOSE supporters of being a scam?
The Constitution is the LAW and RON PAUL WILL EXECUTE THAT LAW.
John in FL.
# 12 Hedrin7
Daniel Boone?
I believe he died prior to the Alamo fight.
Perhaps you meant Jim Bowie, or his brother David.
Can we move the primaries to next week? I can’t stands it no more.
Since we are talking about the presidential election, you must mean this Daniel Boone.
I did it…Ya happy now… I voted 5000 times…LOL
BJ - I bet ol Dan Boone would vote for Ron Paul!
Does anyone believe that Paul has a chance or are you really working to try to change the eventual nominee?
#25 Very succinct, Nat. Excellent.
to rpmaniac and others like you,
life is not a phillip k dick novel. perhaps you have seen “a scanner darkly” too many times. then again, you probably don’t even know who or what i am talking about. i think it is very sad that out of your fear and desperation for understanding the world around you, you twist reality into something that is a complete impossibility. that soothes you? does it make you feel better to think that all news, world events, elected officials and media are ulimately controlled by some elite few?
Y’all Paulestinians get the wrong idea. Most of us don’t care if you spam online polls. They’re unscientific and meaningless. What is outrageous is your deceitful tactic of projecting those bogus results into real world support for your savior. You are either being extremely dishonest or you’re delusional. Either way, such behavior doesn’t bode well for any of us.
bigjolly,
there are thousands working to get Ron Paul elected.
However that are 3x that wasting most of their time online putting articles on digg to the same audience over and over. If people would actually get offline and talk to people person to person there woudl be no doubt Ron Paul could win.
hamous,
ignoring some of the spammers, I’d love to discuss with you why Ron Paul is so despicable in your eyes, but there is really no place to do it so go on thinking he’s the devil or whatever it is that makes you so vehemently opposed to him.
#38 Stephen, that’s the thing. I don’t think RP is despicable at all. I’ve stated in this forum that many of his ideas align with mine but there are a few (very important) issues that keep me from voting for him. Look back at my criticisms of the man. They are policy differences.
My beef is with his plethora of rabid supporters who go into attack mode at mere criticism of the man. They are doing him a disservice by such behavior. It’s not coincidence that so many view them as cultish.
It seems to me that the RPAcolytes would want a realistic picture of where their candidate stands in the polls. That must not be the case.
It is sorta like living in a dump and placing a painting of mountains over the windows to pretend they are living in Nirvana.
Oh I get it. If we say it… it is so.
No no I know what it is is. These people remind me of the goofs you see standing behind a news broadcaster jumping up and down making the look at me faces while cell phoning all their “friends” to watch that channel.
I never took the poll. I did however send in $100 bucks. Can someone explain how Ron Paul pulled down $5 million bucks?
Attack and ridicule is for you hamous.
Poor Daniel. That mean ol’ Hamous is always picking on him
Was that $100 tax deductible? Oh wait, you don’t pay taxes.
hamous,
It is not quite like a forum here, I have spoken to you only yesterday when I learned of the site.
So I am only going by what I see in this time, which has been like a yoyo one min he’s ok, and the next he is horrible.
if there a place here to have an orderly chat or just the blog comments?
Stephen, Here are my main problems with Ron Paul.
1. He is unrealistic in his expectations on the effectiveness of pulling out of Iraq.
2. His foreign policy is too close to isolationism to be workable in the modern global economic climate.
3. He does not take criticism well and does not present himself as a rational thinker in the debates.
4. He has no history of positive accomplishments during his time in Congress.
stephen, just the blog comments. I know it can be hard with all the extraneous noise that can reach deafening levels.
I’ll give you an example. I think RP’s foreign policy is isolationism. Now, hide and watch, all the screaming meemies will go into attack mode and post paragraph after paragraph of the same thing over and over about how ignorant I am and its non-interventionism, not isolationism. I’ve studied his policies in-depth. It doesn’t matter that to me it looks like isolationism and is one of the reasons I will not vote for him. I’m a hater because of it.
As far as yesterday goes, I never said RP was horrible. I simply asked him to disavow the support of neo-nazis, just like Reagan did. That got turned into some bizarre twisted tale of Hamous wants the government to tell us who can donate to candidates. That’s when you throw up your hands and resort to sarcasm and ridicule.
dumoose:
Stephen, Here are my main problems with Ron Paul.
1. He is unrealistic in his expectations on the effectiveness of pulling out of Iraq.
> my main question here is what is the effectiveness of staying? It is very hard to have rational discussion on this at the comments section however.
2. His foreign policy is too close to isolationism to be workable in the modern global economic climate.
> Actually it is just don’t get into other countries politics, and even more trade than now, it is not isolationism. Duncan Hunter is the isolationist of the bunch here.
3. He does not take criticism well and does not present himself as a rational thinker in the debates.
>sound bites are hard to gauge in this, he actually does take criticism, so far as the debates if you were up there with a small fraction of the time of the other candidates would you too not be a bit rushed trying to get your message out?
4. He has no history of positive accomplishments during his time in Congress.
> Actually he has a very sound record of supporting the constitution. If you think about it, do you prefer someone that votes away all your money to every cause under the sun, or one that is willing to keep the money in your pocket? This too is hard to discuss on a comment section of a blog, as it can be approached in numerous ways.
This would be a great point for Fred Thompson however
hamous,
We have troops in over 100 countries today, my simple question is: why?
It is to “protect our interest”? when did we become and empire? with a true free trade our interests would be maintained by our businesses, if someone breaks the rules, they pay the price by having the businesses stop buying, etc.
If you look at what isolationism is, it is both non interventionist military AND non free trade. What we have today with NAFTA, CAFTA etc is not free trade at all, but managed trade that is not even i our best interests, nor in the interests of the citizens of Mexico.
With a free trade that is real, we’d be aiding Mexico far more than today simply through our dollars flowing back there, mexico is highly corrupt but this could be combated as well by returning money from the cartels controlling the lucrative drug trade, to the people that are some of the best hard workers on earth. This is just a nearby example, but free trade to other parts of the world would be highly effective. So far as the military policy of non interventionism, before Bush the GOP was all for this. We hear over and over “9/11 changed everything” but yet, what exactly did it change? Go look back at Reagan’s writings on the mid east policy that was a failure, we are simply repeating this many times over now, do not expect success with the current policy, it will not happen.
“That’s when you throw up your hands and resort to sarcasm and ridicule.”
That’s always more fun anyway! You sock sniffing neocon troglodyte! Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
Stephen, for better or worse, we live in a global economy. We have a responsibility to protect our interests abroad. A disruption in the flow of oil from the middle east could cause serious damage to our economy. I think Bush’s attempt to stabilize the region is commendable, albeit naive, but I don’t look at it as imperialistic. It would be great to transform the region into a collection of sovereign democratic states. Stable democracies don’t war with each other. Can that happen? Maybe not. But Mr. Paul wants to abandon the one shining example of democracy in the region, a country by the way, that is the only place in the middle east where Arabs can vote. So what are we left to do? I see two choices right now. We can bring all troops home and let the region descend into anarchy. That would probably lead to an Arab & Persian assault on Israel and maybe a nuclear retaliation by Israel. That would mean WW IV. Or we can maintain a military presence in the area to keep the shipping lanes open until our idiot politicians can stop killing every chance we have to decrease our dependence on foreign oil.
Stephen, As far as #1 if you have to ask, there is no way I can explain it to you here.
#2 Economics is the primary mover of a countries politics. If you are going to be involved in the global economy, you must be involved in other countries politics. To think otherwise is dangerously naive.
#3 A leader should be able to maintain composure no matter the situation. At some point the President will be required to make quick decisions, with not much time, I don’t want some one in that position who gets flustered because a moderator called time on him.
#4 Please name one bill he has authored that has been passed that directly impacts any of the issues he is campaigning on.
#47 Ok, I’ll admit to obtaining some sick pleasure from the taunt.
Just When you thought it was safe to return to your favorite blog,…They’re Back!
BTW; Elizabeth, since you couldn’t reach the trigger with your toe, how did the toaster work out? ;=)
Help - somebody is hacking YouTube today as well! The most highly video is Ron Paul: http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=tr&t=t&c=0&l= And also the most discussed. It’s only been up 24 hours and has already had 170,000 views. And it’s made newspaper headlines in Australia. He’s talking about freedom — outrageous!
most “highly rated ” that should have said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA
I always wanted to start a boytcott.
It is called the Shannon and Friends Boycott of All Ron Paul Threads On LST.
Free drinks next November after the election for all who participate.
:>)
Hamous
Who, then, is your candidate of choice?
UH-OH! COULD THERE BE A PROBLEM WITH RP’S FUNDRAISING?
I just checked the meter. At the current pace of donations, RP is going to fall well short of his goal for October. At his current rate of $2,557 per hour, he’s going to hit $1.9 million. His goal is $4 million.
Little Mikey, time to pony up again!
#49
Duhmoose,
It’s much more reliable and quick to have a standard to use when making decisions, like the constitution, then making it up as you go.
It ain’t hard to get youboob hits when your acolytes are making the rounds posting the link everywhere.
Most discussed? I checked. Looks like a bunch of RPAcolytes engaging in a mutual back slapping competiiton.
Here I got a theory for ya.
Ron Paul is running to get all the campaign donations that he can. He ain’t gonna get the nomination and there he sits with a tidy sum of money that he can syphon off. All he has to do is make it appear that he is using the money in accordance of campaign finance laws. Nice ponzy scheme .
We all know the media is too powerful. Why is it so hard to believe things don’t add up? Why the focus on money? Why is it that just because one candidate has more money than the other, they are more likely to win? What happened to values? I think our society ,as a whole, has issues. This is obvious by our impulse to use our effective mode of thinking rather than our cognitive mode. We, as Americans, are trained to think within a box all our lives, by our school system. Think of the rational our school system is based on. Step One, put information in at level one, move on to level two, stuff more info in, step three, stuff more info in. It’s like an assembly line used in manufacturing. Why? Because an industrialist had a major hand in the beginning of our public school system. What our country needs are critical thinkers, people thinking outside of the box. Any company owner, or manager, will tell you it is hard to find people that can solve unexpected issues with confidence.
My main point is that our society is full of “Products of our Society” and it so happens, that “products of our society” have a problem with voting for someone that is too different from what they’ve always voted for.
#55 LSGOI - I don’t have one yet. Frankly, I’m not excited about any of them. Rudy’s too far left. Thompson (so far) seems like an empty suit. Romney, I have an immediate distrust of any politician from Massachusetts that was once pro-abortion but now professes to be pro-life. Huckabee, nice guy, good ideas on the fair tax, but I keep having Carter circa 1976 flashbacks (/shivers); I don’t know why. Hunter, has trouble getting his message out and is a little too isolationist for me. Tancredo seems to be a one trick pony and doesn’t have the temperament for a brutal campaign, much less to run the country. I think I’ve spoken enough about the Honorable Congressman from the 14th Congressional District.
So who knows?
#58
Why would you think a successful doctor would need to get money in this way?
Hamous
So, for you, it is a decision of picking the better of two weevils. What would your ideal president be like? How can you say with certainty you won’t vote for RP?
LifeSucks, So how exactly to shrimp subsidies fit in with the Constitution and being against Pork?
#60 hamous
Thompson is an actor and he doesn’t know his role yet. He’ll get some good handlers and they will steer him in the right direction. Keep an eye on him and watch as he gets better and better at presenting himself as he goes along.
This is my one post for the week. See ya next week!
EVERYBODY!! I HAVE A QUESTION!!!
What is your view of the constitution? How important is it? What do you think the Constitution is? Do you know what it says?
PLEASE ANSWER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I AM CURIOUS WHAT EVERYBODY SAYS!
#63
For local and state levels to decide.
#60 hamous
I’m going to officially declare that I am no longer a Huckabee supporter. Dude is having a “green day” this Sunday.
This hurts. Phil_M was right about him all along. There, I said it.
/slips out the door, hanging head in shame.
wow, to be involved in the global economy, you must be involved in other countries politics?
You think you may want to revise that to simply that you need to be involved in the politics of countries that don’t bend to the will of corporate America? (not something I agree with and is obviously an incorrect statement) But I assume that’s what you meant because I would love to know how we are involved in the politics of the rest of the free world.
Sorry but diplomatic matters with trading partners worldwide is not the same thing as toppling entire governments for the sake of instituting another that is more friendly to the U.S.
You are accurate in stating that we are over there (and have been for 50 years) for economic reasons but that’s simply because big oil and banking have been pushing this country around to do it’s will for longer then that.
What big economic boost is going to come from a “democratic” middle east? We don’t really make or produce anything anymore that makes money (as we’ve sold off all the rights to lead the world in production to foreign investors). Most of Asia already provides everything that we provide, except medicine, at cheaper prices. So, unless the plan is to put in place a corrupt government that will force U.S. goods on to the Arabian Peninsula, what big economic boost is going to come from it other then possibly large corporations like walmarts, mcdonald’s and such opening up there. Oh and of course oil.
Sorry I would have no problem “assisting” an oppressed people who are willing to stand up to tyranny and fight for their freedom but this is just not the case in Iraq and certainly not the case in Iran. You wait for signs of revolution, you don’t go start it yourself in the name of others when really you only care about your own gains. The views that the Iraqi government would stand up and fight for it’s rights to be a free sovereign nation once we displaced the Baathist is pretty obtuse considering there has never been any signs that they would previous to our invasion.
As for the comments that Ron Paul says we should blame ourselves for what others do to us, that is obviously a complete hack of the truth. He has stated as much many times. Although he’s the only one that thinks this is a complex situation that can’t be handled with a sledgehammer (the U.S. Military). Think of school shootings by troubled kids that are bullied. No one in their right mind would blame the victims for what has happened but when trying to figure out what went wrong and how to prevent it, you have to look at the situation and say that possibly the antagonistic behavior helped push a bad situation into that next level and it would probably be wise to watch one’s own behavior in future situations if for nothing else then self preservation.
Sorry I don’t agree with everything Ron Paul does or says but I support him because I think he can bring the “most” positive change to this current government. People say what change has he ever made? Tell me what GOOD changes has any of the current list of candidates ever made? I think the main problem in government is it’s lost it’s way and it’s purpose and that starts at the top. Guiliani a good leader? Well sorry but you lead by example and IMO the attitude of the congress is reflective of it’s poor leadership (both party and Executive).
Another thing I have noticed
RPAcolytes not only spam polls they filibuster in the forums.
#62 LSGOI - For this election cycle it may end up that way. Had the Republicans not lost Congress in ‘06 I would be content to skip the presidential box in ‘08. Divided government can work pretty good. As it stands now I think having both Congress and the White House in Democratic hands would be a disaster from which we would not soon recover.
My ideal candidate would be someone like Gingrich without all the excess baggage. An extremely intelligent man with a track record of getting things done. Had the Republicans stuck with the 1994 Contract with America they would still be in power and the country would be in much better shape.
How can I say with certainty? Much the same way I can say I won’t be voting for Hillary Clinton. Like this. I will not be voting for RP. No need to rehash the reasons why.
bigjolly renounces his support for Huckleberry?
Huckleberry ‘08
He is Americas Last Greatest Hope
Huckabee joined Green Day???? Huh?
Ahh, its the evil corporations and banks! Which are of course controlled by….
#72
He does play the bass.
I am a RP supporter. This is the very first time I’ve actually posted on one of these blogs, although I do read many of them everyday.
I have google news alerts setup to give me a daily report on items relating to Ron Paul.
Probably lots of the driveby posters here do as well.
Its difficult trying to support RP in these hit pieces, because if you do try and support him, you’re just labeled a nutcase and ridiculed for it.
However, it seems to me that the detractors don’t make any real arguments against his positions.
They mainly attack his supporters as Paulites, Paulestinians and the like, but don’t have any meat to add about why we are so wrong in our belief that our country is broken and Ron Paul’s idea’s are what we need to fix it.
I do see some debatable comments, very few, but some at least.
The main one I see is the Global Economy issue, and how its tied to politics, and thats why we have to maintain a military presence everywhere.
My question is then, are we the only players in the global economy?
Why don’t other nations have troops everywhere protecting their interests?
Are France and Spain and Russia and China oil independent?
If not, why don’t they have a military presence in the oil rich nations? Could it be because they use economic trade to maintain their interests?
Have some real debate on real issues instead of empty mockery.
Its not our fault that RP supporters tend to be intelligent net savvy people, with passion for an ideal that we think will turn our nation around.
Should we not use the tools that we have and know how to use?
Are we supposed to just sit quietly until the primaries and just hope people are educated enough to make an informed vote?
Comments like the one above about RP ponzy scheme are ridiculous when you look at Paul’s history in congress, how he returns unused portions of his office budget, and how he has opted out of the congressional pension.
If you’re going to try and malign someone, at least do a little homework.
Ok, that’s my nutball Paulestinian rant. I suppose now I’ll be mindlessly mocked. Oh well, I do vote and so do I assume do most of the other RP supporters.
Guess we’ll find out on election day how many of us there actually are.
The Constituion is a living, expanding, growing document. It is flexible, bendable, pliable, malleable and should not be constrainted by the anitquated precepts of the so called originalist.
#74 Is he really holding a “green day”? I swear, if he goes out in a row boat and an aquatic rabbit attacks him….
Yes, he’s really having a green day.
/reaches for trigger
How about this.. All of you people that rely on the usapolls.com and the other polls that are stuck in the last century and use landlines to call… how about you all get off your lazy asses and attend a debate or any other function that would prove to you that Paul supporters are not just an internet thing.
I was at the Michigan debate. I’m a photographer. Check out this link to see the 200+ that came to support the Dr. at the debates, then the 1000+ that came to his rally at U of M campus at 8pm.
People all chipped in and had an airplane fly a banner saying “Google Ron Paul” over the place. And that wasn’t the first time. It happened at the Michigan vs. Notre Dame game not long ago as well.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v53/product7/Ron%20Paul/
oh.. and there was 5 people at the debates to support Romney (A Mich Native) and no one for the other candidates.
You all can make whatever claims you want, but there’s a revolution going on. If you were a true American, you would too.
Ron Paul supporters know the Constitution. They just don’t know history (re Daniel Boone died at the Alamo).
I did not realize that Ron Paul supporters were the only people in America who had read the Constitution. Glad to get that straight.
The Illuminati. Oh, and Halliburton.
Well now, there you go. Flying “Google Ron Paul” banners. My flying toaster screensaver has been hijacked with the same message. He’s got it sewn up boys. Toss in the towel.
Shannon, what thread are you holding your boycott on?
81 was a response to 73, btw
That’s exactly the sort of talk that turns me off of Ron Paul the most. If I don’t support Ron Paul, I’m not a true American?
#82 Well thought out reply. Lot’s of meat there.
Thanks for the link to the pictures. This is one reason why his supporters seem a bit odd:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/product7/Ron%20Paul/DSC_7726.jpg?t=1192206584
#84 Its sort of like, “I am the way, the truth, and the light”, huh?
Big Jolly abandons Huck?
Time to reset my Thompson bashing meter.
Hey, you are supposed to be boycotting this thread.
58 - Squak
Another angle might be to raise $$ running in the Republican primaries, where he’s more visible, then drop out and use the $$, and the exposure to run as the Libertarian candidate in the general.
I think JohnRH nailed it.
This is scary, exactly the thing that rush Limbaugh used to rail against on his daily radio AND TV show. i may be 24 but I very well remember when Rush was very anti UN and destroyed the liberals with their living constitution views:
# squawkbox Says:
October 12th, 2007 at 11:22 am
The Constituion is a living, expanding, growing document. It is flexible, bendable, pliable, malleable and should not be constrainted by the anitquated precepts of the so called originalist.
Sorry what is odd about some older women supporting Ron Paul?
___
bigjolly Says:
October 12th, 2007 at 11:38 am
Thanks for the link to the pictures. This is one reason why his supporters seem a bit odd:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/product7/Ro
Stephen,
Sorry, it’s just not my ideal of a little old lady to be standing on a corner holding create peace and impeach Bush signs.
But that’s just me.
Stephen
#92
Hi Sailor. Don’t come here often do you?
bigjolly,
so you are saying someone is forcing them to be there or what?
Me love you long time
squawkbox,
Yesterday.
LifeSucks, Then why did Ron Paul put it in Federal Pork?
As for the not toppling regimes for financial gain, can someone show me where US corporations forced the Government, without support of Congress and the American people, to topple a foreign power? And most countries have military actions to help support their interest in the global economy. Just look at the UN.
Dang, now I don’t get a free drink.
Stephen, not at all. All I’m saying is that my image of granny is her baking me cookies. It’s a new world.
Hey, how’d the boycotter get #100?
# 56 Big Jolly,
At his current rate of $2,557 per hour, he’s going to hit $1.9 million. His goal is $4 million.
“Little Mikey, time to pony up again!”
Jeez, it’s only 10/12. The pace will pick up as we RP supporters get our allowance from our parents.
OFF TOPIC:
I’m going to Barbeque Inn tonight for fried shrimp and stop by and get a Flying Saucer pie afterwards.
It’s shaping up into a “fall asleep in the recliner” night.
#100 Shannon
If you are in South Florida I will buy you a meal with all the free drinks you want
#99 Because his constituents asked him to. If you notice, he also voted against it.
For crying out loud, it’s an internet poll!
You have to be outright STUPID to put one of those up and then think that one or more of the candidates aren’t going to try to flood it with their supporters. That’s why you put a caveat up there that it isn’t scientific.
But don’t put up an internet poll and then pretend to be shocked when the results skew to the campaign that’s best at getting emails out to its supporters.
CNBC has only itself to blame for this one.
if the rabid ron paul followers manipulate results online
one cant help but think
in their state of desperation
will they commit election fraud
in a real election
Little Mike, you talking about the one on Crosstimbers?
#108 BJ
The one and only! (both BBQ Inn and FSP)
#100 Shannon, pretty bad when you have to kick yourself out of your own club.
little mike, that’s in my general neighborhood but I haven’t been there in years. Last time I went it took forever to get served. Have they improved? I like Pizzitola’s on Shepard.
Hamous, I haven’t noticed particularly poor service at BBQ Inn - I go about once a month. Of course, I ease back into a 1964 frame of mind and I’m not looking to get my shrimp in 5-10 minutes. My goal is to eat all the melba toast before the food arrives.
Of course, some of the waitresses are 120 years old so I don’t expect them to step lively.
I’ve been eating there on a pretty regular basis since I was about 3 years old. Of course, I couldn’t order a Michelob back then…
#107, I was going to make a long thoughtful reply to that, buts its apparently more smiled upon here to just take a poke at you.
Remove the tinfoil hat and step away from the keyboard.
Most of the “long thoughtful replies” on this thread read like Thomas Aquinas’ Summa, but without the philosophical meat and potatoes.
I like meat and potatoes. And Thomas Aquinas.
Me too.
#12 edit…
Appologies for the mistake on Danial Boone, my history, seemingly, does not function well at 3am… Thank you little Mike(#29), for the correction of Jim Bowie… I think I might have seen David Bowie at the Alamo Bowl once…
Here’s a bit of philosophical meat and potatoes for ya…
The devalued nature of reason in today’s world has led to our subsequent folly. In the fashion of our lives, we’ve made it vogue to dismiss the broad picture. Consuming ourselves in our own fabricated troubles, we readily dismiss the line of thought that could propel our nation unto it’s previous grandeur. Is it truly so difficult to see even a mere two or three steps ahead of one’s immediate action? To know from previous experience that any action’s equal or opposite reaction is finite in it’s general consistency? Yet, like those wind-up robots society is perpetually walking into the same wall. Doing the same action repeatedly, expecting the outcome to change each time, it’s insanity. Oh, sure every great while there is one that bumps enough to turn it’s self around, only to wander (wonder?) it’s self into a corner. What’s worse is this line of anti-thought seemingly stretches to the top levels of Government. Yet, when we see this we say, “It’s nothing I can remedy.”, or “There should be something done about this…”; pawning the trouble out of our mind, into oblivion. It’s that exact complacent reasoning that muddied the water’s of reason in the first place.
We’ve become so enraptured in our own self-gratification, we negate the true facets of happiness; Freedom, Liberty, Prosperity… By shrieking into our own woe’s, depression, helplessness, anti-satisfaction, we neglect to realize that these have been ever-present in the human faction. The only difference is that in by-gone era’s, people did something about it themselves, where today we want someone else to “fix” it. Give me paxil, zoloft, vicodine… These unnecessary, easy-ways-out, are the bane of our time. Do you know what’s in them? Do you know what they do to your mind? Why are they so readily doled out in millions, to hundreds of thousands a day? Why do the doctors have contracts with pharmaceutical companies in order to be a member of the American Medical Association? Don’t question it if it works, we’re told. Here focus on this new reality show. It’ll take your mind off your own reality. Now you wont question… No! Question everything! We are being swept into a silent multitude of mindless drones, only capable of filling the coffers for others to usurp control of our lives. Consuming copious amounts of “regulated” psychotropic substances just to feel good in our own skin. No. It’s not right. Learn how to build something, a bookshelf, a garden, a cohesive unique thought. Find out what that does for your well-being…
“It is the dreariest of times that weighs heavily upon one’s soul…” Yet, we don’t heed the blatant warnings, for our sight has been so constricted to our own plight, that the plight of this nation goes unnoticed. Sure bits and pieces are vaulted to the forefront of our attention, from time to time, yet readily dismissed at the next airing of superficiality. Negating the unobtrusive trajectory for the dots to be connected in clarity. Can we truly be so jaded that we neither care or notice that the general climate of our security has taken a backseat to enacting doctrine by way of force? The security that is best served through freedom and liberty, and those doctrines that are best edified through example alone? We’ve been, like a child, distracted by a rhetorical shiny object. A strong mind, yes, is conflicted, but only a slave (or pet) allows itself to be led. Belay the cataclysmic departure from reason. Better yourself, and our welfare, by opening your mind to a broader plane of knowledge. Learn all you can, about all you can. Do not condemn yourself to the life of a symbiontic entity. Reject the status-quo as a fool’s epitaph. Delineate yourself from the sea of plastic people, acting as a ship run aground. Know that every action in this life, even passive placation to a benign juxtaposition, has the essential platitude to effect complacencies, even unwittingly warranted ones. Be better minded than the world around you, and the world around you will become better minded.
I think that TV is not where Ron Paul gets the best shake, which sends people to the internet.
Once they somewhat figure out the deceit of corporate and special interest donations, and that Ron is not involved, they like him alot.
After one starts liking him alot, he finds these smear blogs, which makes them research more, and they find out about a bunch of lies. They may even stumble across what a neoconservative is.
As they feel their heart in their throat they desperately plea for all to “look into Ron Paul!!!”
Well, that is the phenomena and you are not always dealing with the long converted Ron Paul Republican. But alot of times the most zealous supporters are the new converts who feel they have to do everything they can to get his name out there.
The population, itself, likes Ron Paul. And from the looks of the CNBC debate and the pulling of the poll and stuff, GE would rather go back to ignoring the old man.
Frederick Douglass said, “Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude.”
Follow the Drinking GOurd, fellows. The old man is coming to carry you to freedom.
Stephen - are you and Stephene one and the same?
Anyway, if you seriously believe what Squawkbox said about the Constitution, you’re not very good at spotting sarcasm.
As for another reason to not support RP, why do his followers seem to break out the Rothschilds and other such theories too much.
118
Aquinas he ain’t, but I’ll I’ll give him C+ for effort.
:>)
Hey, its original! I’ll give him a B. I would have just said: Endeavor to persevere!
118 - I will say this: Ron Paul is not the only or even the best answer to the problems you mention. He’s not really the answer at all to any of those problems. No presidential candidate is.
Nice cut and paste, by the way.
jimb,
Yes I am stephene, and it is a bit had to detect sarcasm at times online. But essentially if you are for this war it is exactly what you believe, I fail to see how you can think otherwise.
There are people in corporate and banking power pulling many of the strings, the founders warned us of this temselves, do I believe it to be some “zionist”. NOT AT ALL! In fact I am a zionist and fully support the right of Israel to exist. I know that is what a number of you beat around the bush about with your comments. In fact the people proclaiming this are very deceived themselves. The bottom line is there are some very greedy people that want all the money and the power. It has ZERO to do with “Israel” as they claim, and all to do with the lust for power. This can be found through history, both biblically and man’s written history.
There are people of all races/religions/parties/on and on that are working to achieve a euphoria that power alone gives them, a lust for power that gives a high that is higher than any drug on earth.
I don’t think the main threat from this comes from the US either, but instead a certain country with a new leader in europe, I once thought this man was a going to be a great friend, I now think he is a great deception.
BTW, I changed my profile display name because people thought I was a female name due to the e which was really just a placeholder character since a user ’stephen’ already existed here at LST.
It’s cut and paste of my own writing… And, I agree that no presidential hopeful will ever come close to effecting such. However, given the option to choose between more of the same, and freedom for prosperity, I know what I’d prefer.
122
Kinda made me want to go outside sit in a lotus position on this beautiful day and MMMMMMMM for a while. But I’m running a little short on psycotropics and herbs at this time.
“delineate yourself from the sea of plastic people”
I liked that line. I started to elaborate on what that meant to me in the context of this thread but decided it’s too nice a day. Y’all kiddies have fun
126
Lust on power then, it is much more deadly
Admittidly a lot of Ron Paul supporters are those wind-up robots that have started bumping into a new wall, but not all. Please don’t let ANYONE influence your thought.
little short on psycotropics and herbs at this time?
One word
silosybin
duhmoose,
The executive branch (president) has a lot of power to do as he pleases and has taken more power as time has gone on mostly thanks to the creation of the National Security Council. Since then, the presidency alone has had the ability to pretty much do as they please through the CIA with little or at times no involvement from Congress. (Don’t get me started on how poorly the modern congress represents the people but their “approval rating” shows this quite well). But to satisfy your request you have to look no further then the overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953. This is just one act in a long list of CIA actions during the Cold War that was done without the approval of anyone besides basically the Executive Branch. When Congress tried to tighten the noose on the CIA they simply stepped around that process by raising their own funds through multiple nefarious means.
Regardless of the reasons for any of those actions, you can not deny that this country’s Executive branch has meddled in the affairs of foreign countries without the direct approval of Congress and certainly without the approval of the American People.
Also, you state that most countries have military actions to help support their interest in the global economy. Hmm well considering most countries barely even have a military and certainly don’t really have participate in the global economy, I doubt that is true. But even if it was, doesn’t make it right.
Not sure where the UN comes in though as this is not country or even a government of any kind (yet).
jmw8888, If you really believe that the President has more power to do as he wants now than in the past, you might want to brush up on your history.
And yes, I can deny that the “Executive Branch has meddled in the affairs of foreign countries without the direct approval of Congress.”
Off the top of my head, I can only think of two nations that do not have an army. And if you think other nations are involved in the global economy, I can only assume you don’t understand how business works on the international stage and how that affects the local economies.
The UN is an organization of countries that exerts military and economic pressures. If you don’t see how that fits in to the discussion, I am sorry.
#86- Yea, those are real people. Two old ladies probably came from a senior center to support Ron Paul. I’m sure they knew what it was really like to live in America when it was truly free and when it was the richest country on earth.
They were very sweet by the way. What if that was your grandmother
how can you deny acts that have been proven and admitted to? people have gone to jail for what the CIA has done on direct orders from the executive branch.
And anyone that knows anything about history understands that this government was founded to provide checks and balances. Mainly the President was to provide that major balance to the somewhat more powerful branch, the legislative. There have been many laws passed in this past century to build the power of the president, I can’t think of any that have stripped him of any real power. Feel free to provide examples.
The UN does fit into the discussion but you provided it as an example of countries using military actions to support their interest in the global economy. Just wasn’t sure it was a very good example.
I understand how business works on the international stage just fine, but you forget that there are very few businesses in smaller countries that have major interest globally. It’s mostly the large countries that have interests in their countries.
I stand by that statement that you probably can’t find more then a handful of nations that have used their military in action to support their purely economic global interests in modern times.
again, just because some nations could use their military to support their economy in foreign lands, doesn’t mean they should have.
Food? Someone mention free food? Making me hungry!
Hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s off to work I go… I’ll check back on y’all later. Don’t have too much fun on those psilocybin’s now, the Fed’s might want a cut…
duhmoose, Why should I take your word that you know for a fact what you said in #132? Yes, I could research it and find out for myself, but I would rather hear your sources.
Why can’t both of you back up yourselves with some proof. Without proof, it’s just hot air.
ok lets take Germany for an example, they are the WORLD’s LARGEST EXPORTER.
Anyone know how many troops they have outside their borders?
“As of October 2006, the German military had almost 9,000 troops stationed in foreign countries”
yep that’s right a massive 9,000! And they export quite a bit more than us as well. Seems they are either relying on the US to protect them and we need to start giving them billable services or they have no need to have their military stationed world wide to ensure their economy is able to continue.
not to mention healthcare there is much better and cheaper than here, and it is NOT socialized either.
jmw8888, Name one government that was toppled by Executive order without any Congressional approval.
Okay guys, I’ll try my standard Ron Paul question with you. Thus far, out of countless replies, I’ve received exactly one response that was reasonable. I’ll see if I can dig it up.
I’ve lived in RP’s congressional district. I’ve run businesses in his district. I know Ron Paul. Okay?
So here is the question: what, exactly, makes you guys think enough of him to support him financially and with your vote? He has done NOTHING in 18+ years in the U.S. Congress to warrant either. He has never passed a substantive bill. He has never been able to persuade so much as a sub-committee that he is right about anything. Again, how does this record grant him for your support?
bigjolly,
So you prefer that your congress fluffs up bills and won’t take short and simple bills to get the job done so they deny them in committee?
#138, I believe historians usually say that Lincoln is the President who has exercised the most power. As far as the President not meddling without Congressional approval, meddling takes money, which the Congress has to approve. Low budget meddling tends to just annoy people and not have much affect.
He has held strong to principle.
He does not sell out, he does not buy in.
We need someone we can count on to stick to priciples of the American people.
The sanhedrin and the pharisees thought Jesus was ineffective. Granted, I am not about to worship Ron Paul.
Stephen,
He hasn’t been able to stop Congress. He is not effective.
C’mon, you can do better.
That says more than you’ll ever recognize.
How has he stood strong for principle? Standing strong for principle would mean no shrimp subsidies for Freeport. Is that a principled stand?
bigjolly,
A single veto pen can stop congress a lot better than a single voice.
Ron Paul has great respect among the likes of Gingrich and the former leadership of the GOP for it fiscal responsibility.
Come on bigjolly,
Ron would rather appropriate those funds instead of handing it over to the bureaucrats. The money was being spent anyway.
He is effective simply by being able to stay in the game even though everyone knew full well he is out to change the game.
He was able to win in your district even when the President would not endorse him. Sounds like resilience.
That is one of the oldest TROLL tricks in the book. Make em show some link. And then qualify it with I am more interested in your sources.
Meanwhile, all I see from you is the same old talking points and go watch this vidoe crap that i have been seeing for the past month. Boring.
#54 Shannon count me in to boycott…… and free drinks !
That’s a cop-out if you ask me. If Ron Paul is all about principled stands on spending, he would not introduce pork bills. He would introduce bills to cut that sort of spending altogether, and cut taxes, and return that money to the states.
It is a cop out Jim in the same vain of I voted for it before I voted against it.
Actually, Bigjolly, I don’t understand the shrimp and pork issue. Both are consistent. Regarding the Pork issue, http://www.house.gov/paul/press/press2003/pr121003.htm
And regarding the Shrimp issue, http://www.house.gov/paul/press/press2004/pr011404.htm
What is there not to agree with? The shrimp subsidies your talking about were for FOREIGN FREAKING SHRIMP!!! HELLO!!!. He was AGAINST subsidizing FOREIGN shrimp because it was hurting LOCAL shrimp. DUH!!!
Uh, catch me if I’m wrong, but RP does vote against pork bills.
http://www.house.gov/paul/press/welcome.htm
Ron doesn’t tell parables.
This disqualifies him from worship.
Sam Brownback and Mike Huckabee tell parables. Ahhh, how effective that Brownback is!!!
The CFR is trying to bury your boy Huckabee, are you mad? Or have you been Ron Paul supporter bashing too long to lash out for your own cause?
I had the pleasure of being well represented by Congressman Paul when I lived in his district. And I voted to re-elect him when the republican party supported his opponent in the primary.
BJ doesn’t get good answers to his favorite question because the question itself is bogus.
Btw, for those who are interested, Dr. Paul will be interviewed by Jim Lehrer on PBS at 6pm Central Time.
After he creates them, knowing that more than likely they will be funded. So now he has the best of both words, ehhh?
All the while running on a cut waste/spending platform. Then he has the defenders that come out with this bit of excusing his behavior
Suhweet.
Reminds me of an alcoholic…. Well one won’t hurt.
If Germany is the world’s leading exporter, why is their unemployment rate so high?
Stephen,
So you are banking your support on his power to veto. Which of course is an unknown factor, as he hasn’t had to make that choice yet. But at least you are thinking.
Because Ron Paul, the congressman, is ineffective and unable to convince his peers that his is the right position.
#154 lifesucks (btw, that is a terrible nic, hope you find peace someday)
Sorry, mistype. His earmarks were for shrimp studies. My bad.
So were they principled earmarks?
#158 bob42
Ah, so you are one of those that voted for him. Gotta admit, you have scoreboard.
So, your support is based upon the fact that he won?
Well, every other candidate in the race has won an election or two. Do you support them?
Yet worship him you do. Why?
Shrimp studies, and them some.
And therein lies Paul’s hypocrisy.
bigjolly,
Voting no to all the spending is essentially a veto but it is not meaningful due to there only being one, as the executive it only takes one.
dcgirl,
They are still high on unemployment but now at a 14 year low. that does not change the fact that they are the largest exporter, China is projected at current growth to surpass them as #1 in mid 2008. Germany has also recently FAILED to pass a number socialistic programs, so their unemployment should continue to drop.
Who said Germany was the world’s leading exporter?
bigjolly,
it is a simple fact, look it up. Germany is #1, US #2, China #3 and rising fast, the economic zone of hong kong is #4. Technically it is part of China now but as far as governance and economy it is still separate and will be for the foreseeable future.
Well we have been subsidizing Germany’s (and the rest of the continent’s) defense for the last 60+ years. Then there was that little Marshall Plan thing.
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogs/exporters.html
hamous,
And is it not time we STOP this?
Okay, you are talking about goods, not including services, I got it.
Yes, we should stop subsidizing other countries. That said, it wouldn’t be prudent or in our best interests to dismantle all of our foreign military bases. IMHO
#175 - I think that would be pretty close to … what’s the word? …. its on the tip of my tongue…
bigjolly,
i don’t think there is a need to dismantle them, but work agreements with them to withdraw forces and turn over operations to them, but in the agreement reserve rights to use the bases in the future should they be needed.
in Germany we have a mess of a mall at an AFB that is like the big dig in Boston, a never ending blackhole of money, I don’t know how anything could be managed worse in our foreign presence.
Not practical and would never happen. The cost would also be tremendous, to abandon, then to re-occupy.
I think that Germany could be scaled down to a very small force. Agree with you there. Also agree to a large extent on the waste/mismanagement of the whole foreign presence.
Little Mike: BBQ Inn? FSP? Michelob? I noticed that you didn’t say light or ultra. Oh my! Be still my heart!
BTW: This will be my last post on a Ron Paul thread. I am boycotting. Shannon is a man of his word, and I want my Michelob!
No wonder you support Ron Paul
(You) Pull out, reserve rights to use bases later.
(Ron Paul) Vote against earmarks after creating earmarks.
Kewl
Anyway you just described isolationism to the enth degree. OH silly me it is non=intervention.
Cool Let
From a personal standpoint, and maybe one Dr Paul would agree to in the end would be to leave the hospitals open (which provide a great service to both our country and the country they are in, in times of disaster) with a small contingency force, like a embassy protection type of service. These could be available for the disaster relief, evacuations, etc that are called upon at times by the State Dept. they would also essentially become a tool of peace instead of war in this manner.
If we really evaluate all the stations of service for military now, it is simply not needed we can literally move 5-10,000 troops anywhere in the world within 24 hours right now, from the US soil should the need arise. just because we don’t have troops in nearly every nation does mean we can’t get there QUICKLY and effectively if needed.
squawkbox,
I am fine with turning them over to the base country without reservation, there is zero need for the bases.
We can be anywhere so quickly it simply doesn’t matter, they are not needed.
#180 Isolationism! That’s the word I was looking for. Thanks Squawkie.
hamous,
you have no idea what isolationism means, becuase we don’t have troops there means we no longer buy goods from them? what do the troops secretly ship all the goods? Last i checked that is why there are rail networks and ships, so we can buy the goods and sell the goods.
And you “base” that belief on what?
also by your reasoning we should occupy china with at minimum 120,000 troops, we import so much from there that we must protect our investment!
What’s your definition of an Earmark? Do you think they are constitutional?
squawkbox,
every hear of those flying things called airplanes? What about maybe…..ships? or diplomacy……na you haven’t heard of that!
Son you don’t know me so don’t even try that crap.
Oh airplanes are the answer. I suppose you have never heard of satellite surveillance, coastline radar and other forms of early warning devices.
squawkbox,
like they can’t see them moving at the base in another country? get real!
Oh diplomacy. but if we don’t bother other countries and don’t intervene in anything we should never need diplomacy right?
actually there are two areas that define isolationism. Non-interventionism as well as a protective economic policy which would provide for very restricted foreign trade.
Since Ron Paul is only one of the two, he simply is defined only as what he is, Non-interventionist.
People who are opposed to Ron Paul’s views very often try and make him sound much worse by playing the “isolationist” card when it’s obviously invalid.
#180 You are the proverbial broken record. You have one single instance where his constituents wanted him to introduce an earmark he disagreed with.
He complied with his constituents wishes, because that was his elected duty as their representative, he voted against it, because that was his duty as a congressman sworn to uphold the constitution.
Where’s the hypocrisy?
Dude, if thats all the dirt you can dig up on Ron, he’s a shoe in.
squawkbox,
I know you are playing devil’s advocate, but of course there is need for diplomacy. the world is not utopia and everyone knows that, but we should have a viable defense and at this point we don’t even have that, they are all over the world and NOT here!
Ron Paul has also said that there is never a time we should fire a shot in anger. So when we are attacked on our home we should justy not do anything?
No, just calmly shoot them. Don’t be angry about it.
The reason why interventionism is so popular now is because we aren’t looking to have “free trade” with third world foreign countries. Corporations are looking to go in, open up shop, take advantage of the cheap labor and resources then turn around and sell those product back to countries of greater wealth for a huge profit. Countries like China will allow us to do this, hence we don’t need to “intervene” over there.
I am not playing devils advocate at all. This portion of the discourse goes directly to why I will not vote for Ron Paul.
Your answers show me that you are simply parroting Ron Paul speak and have no sense of history and choose to ignore the realities of the days and circumstances we live in.
Oh brother. Here we go the big corporations conspiracy theory. Americans are abusing the cheap labor of third world countries.
An argument can be made that if it were not for American Corporations many of those people would not have a job at all.
squawkbox,
Firing a shot in anger and not defending the country are two different things, in fact after 9/11 he proposed what would have been the best means to solve the issue, Letters of Marque and Reprisal.
Piracy was a major problem in the day, it is the same as terrorism today, and the same resolution will work for this as it did then. In fact such could have even turned the terror put on us around on its face and made the planners of the attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (and wherever else they may be/have been) right back on them by making everyone an enemy. In fact there likely could have been an additional incentive offered by the government, even a $1,000,000,000 bounty possible, this would have distinctly turned the tide on them as that is such an amount Bin Laden would have feared his own top command. (I am not saying that Ron Paul would have supported a billion dollar bounty, but I am saying had it been given any thought it coudl have passed and indeed been over 1/90th of the current costs involved alone!) And it would have gotten the head of the best much sooner.
If Ron Paul is for free trade then why do you have a problem with american Corporations opening shop in ohter countries?
Have a good, just reason for going to war. Anger is not one of them.
Self Defense? That’s another story.
squawkbox,
If you believe 9/11 changed the world, indeed the terrorist are winning. there was nothing about 9/11 that has not happened countless times through history, there was no need to abandon our constitution, nor was there a need to expand out military forces through the world to “protect us”
Stephen
Take a smack at my nose and see how angry I get. Continue to threaten me or my family and demonstrate that you intend to do me harm, am I not supposed to take ACTION to prevent you from bringing harm to me or my interests no matter where they be?
CNBC just posted a dissenting opinion by John Harwood on their decision to remove the poll. He says: “I agree with the complaints. I do not believe our poll was “hacked.” Nor do I agree with my colleagues’ decision to take it down, though I know they were acting in good faith.” http://www.cnbc.com/id/21270546
squawkbox,
when as Ron Paul said he has any issue with American companies opening in our countries? in fact I believe he said he was even fine with the dubai investment into Nasdaq, this is not isolationism at all.
Here let me turn this around, I poke you in the snoot and continue to threaten you and your stuff you mean to tell me you ain’t gonna get mad and fed up?
This is simple. If earmarks are unconstitutional, then Dr. Paul should not create them. It is a cop-out to create an earmark and then vote against it, knowing it is going to be passed anyway as part of the larger package.
Sorry, but if the guy is that principled, I expect more of him than that. Besides, I am sure that Paul creates his share of earmarks.
Okay, about the pork bill issue with RP, he voted against said “Pork” because it was part of an “omnibus” bill. Of course, the “Omnibus” Bill style is the result of individual bills not being passed in a timely manner and being rolled into one, sometimes, 1000+ page bill, that not everybody reads who votes for it. RP actually read it and didn’t agree with everything in it, voted against it. There is nothing unconstitutional about earmarks. It’s the sneaky way some people get them approved and where they go. RP’s earmarks do not benefit him financially. His presidential campaign fund-raising is evidence.
squawkbox,
what exactly did Afghanistan or Iraq do to us for us to go there? What did their citizens do? I think much like the US current leadership, the problem was not the country, but the leaders, and war is not the answer for everything. Shoot first ask later is not the answer.
you bet if we invade they will return fire, we’d be ignorant to think otherwise. so why did we invade them?
So what was I supposed to do, not vote in their poll because I was worried my candidate’s vote total would be too impressive? Huh?
There was no hacking, or the vote total would have been way over 7,000. Some of the post-debate polls have had over 30,000 votes. There wasn’t any organized “targeting” either — just a message on the Ron Paul forums telling people where the poll was.
Don’t other candidates’ supporters share that type of information? Don’t other candidates have supporters? I can see Giuliani or Thompson supporters not caring enough to vote in online polls, since they get plenty of free media coverage, but you would think that Huckabee or Tancredo or Hunter or Brownback supporters would at least give it a try.
What’s confusing most observers in this race is that Ron Paul has the most actual supporters, even though he trails the front-runners in scientific polling. It shouldn’t be that confusing, if they compared the crowds the candidates attract on the campaign trail, or the number of volunteers each candidate has, or the number of individual donors, or straw poll results.
Even if the polls are correct, and Ron Paul is in the 2-4% range in support nationally, that represents a few million people. If 50,000 of them are actual supporters, they can win pretty much any Internet poll, without cheating.
The real question isn’t why Ron Paul has 50,000 enthusiastic supporters out of a few million people who like him, the real question is why do candidates liked by tens of millions of people have so few enthusiastic supporters?
And anyone who expects Ron Paul to do worse on election day than in random telephone surveys still doesn’t get it. Ron Paul supporters are going to turn out at several times the rate of the supporters of other candidates, so his results are going to be several times what the telephone surveys predict.
squawkbox,
If you poke me, I may poke back, but it will be to you, not your entire family.
Why? Because GWB finally did what should have been done 30 years ago.
Patheitc outlook you got going on. Not to mention unrealistic. You seem to think that comiing home and calling Kings X all things will be okie dokie. I got some real bad news for you. There are people in this world that NO MATTER WHAT just hate other people.
Letters of Marque and Reprisal?!?!? Put a BOUNTY on Bin Ladin’s head and that solves the war on terror?
That is so head-in-the-sand naive as to be insane…
Jesus squawkbox are you a woman? Don’t look to deep into something. Try taking it for face value.
No one said anything about conspiracy. It’s simple freaking fact. Anyone that deals in international business as I do sees it first hand.
An american corporation going to a foreign country and starting up a shop there has nothing to do with the United States’ Trade Policies. They are simply starting up an office in a foreign country. Free trade means that United States Corporations can freely export or import goods and services with any other country’s corporations.
I don’t have any issue with american corporations opening shops in other countries. I have issue with government spending trillions of dollars, that it doesn’t have, to secure the right of american corporations to do so. (I obviously don’t think that’s the only reasons for war or even interventionism, but free trade and spreading democracy because our leaders care about the plight of muslims in the third world sure as hell isn’t the reason we intervene)
#209 - that’s changing the story.
No, but he’s been known to dress up in a tutu from time to time…
jimb,
It has worked in the past it would work today. It even works for the various Islamic sects to put bounties on the heads of their opponents and infiltrate the other.
This was happening all over Afghanistan, and indeed still is today.
So Stephen let’s ramp this up. I move me and my minions to an island that does not fall into the law of your little Camelot. And I start sending my representatives to kick your natural arse and provoke a fight on a regular basis, and I do not negotiate. diplomacy? What’s that.
And all you are doing is minding your own business. But every time you turn around i am blowing up your car by proxy of course and you know it is is me pulling the strings. Whatcha gonna do now?
Let’s see:
“Mothball” all US bases overseas
Withdraw all US troops from overseas
Withdraw from all free trade agreements
Withdraw from NATO
And if someone attacks us issue letters of Marque and Reprisal
Call it what you want; isolationism non-interventionism. I’ll just call it quits. A rose by any other name…
I’m off again. There’s a couple of Shiners calling my name.
Warning: The following video has absolutely nothing to do with Ron Paul. Enjoy at your own risk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkFqbWvdKk0
squawkbox,
your cars won’t blow up as you are unable to figure out the triggering device.
hamous,
if a nation attacks us of course we go to war with congressional approval, what is so hard to understand about that.
Tell me WHAT nation attacked us on 9/11.
“So here is the question: what, exactly, makes you guys think enough of him to support him financially and with your vote? He has done NOTHING in 18+ years in the U.S. Congress to warrant either. He has never passed a substantive bill. He has never been able to persuade so much as a sub-committee that he is right about anything. Again, how does this record grant him for your support?”
—————————–
If Congress doesn’t agree with him on much of anything, that’s one more reason to support him.
Ron Paul’s single greatest accomplishment in Congress is proving to other politicians that you can vote in line with the Constitution, freedom, and smaller government, and win reelection by large margins. That people will support you for your honesty and integrity, even if you don’t always agree with them on everything.
Ron Paul reminds people what freedom means, and what made America different from every other country before or since. Instead of knocking him for having the courage and principles to vote no on things Congress shouldn’t be voting on in the first place, take an hour and watch some of his speeches on YouTube, and the reaction he generates from a wide range of people. It’s truly amazing.
Point being is the federal government has no right to spend my tax dollars on any military action that isn’t completely centered around defense of this country. They have no right to use it to secure my financial interests in foreign countries. They really have no right to use it in defense of our allies.
Congress represents the people but they don’t always do it as they are supposed to (as defined within the constitution). I think that is why so many support Ron Paul for president. Maybe if the leader represents this it will cause a trickle down effect over time.
We have free trade. The problem is governments on the other side demand that governments on this side negotiate because governments on the other side don’t negotiate with private firms.
Reality sucks I know.
Oh and am I a woman? Nope. But if I was you wouldn’t be gettin any.
squawkbox,
who said the government wouldn’t negotiate true free trade?
Stephen
Come back and talk to me when you get a few years of history behind you and you can put down the Ron Paul comic books down long enough to think for yourself.
Oh but wait, I thought Ron Paul said that the government should stay ouit of free trade. Why yes he did.
squawkbox,
how about bringing up a valid point and answering the questions?
Of is the answer “it is a war on islam” because the terrorist were islamic?
drd - He’s a lone warrior for freedom. He’s way outnumbered by all the big government advocates who are supported big time by lobbyists. It’s a long up hill battle to clean up Congress. But it is worth the wait
Again who is saying we don’t at least advocate free trade? (By the way we are not totally for free trade currently, we put many restrictions on trade to compensate certain interest groups).
I was simply stating that setting up shop in Afghanistan has nothing to do with free trade. As you were stating if Ron Paul is for free trade, why would I be against that? (Which I wasn’t).
BTW I like Ron Paul a lot, I think he’s one of the only people in government that really cares about serving the people and following the constitution but I have the same doubts as some as to what he can really get done.
Although what has any recent president gotten done besides social programs that they had no business instituting? The government is supposed to be doing so little I don’t understand the reasoning behind putting so much weight behind how many Bills did he get pushed through.
Here I am, after reading all freakin 231 posts, coming to the point of simple ridicule as I know I shouldn’t. But I feel the need to call Squawkbox an ol’ geazer who won’t quite squawkin’ about the same thing. It looks like stephen is talking to a brick wall that isn’t listening, just spitting the same rehearsed views out that the brick wall has been spitting out for some time, being he’s an ol’ geazer.
So I leave the thread for a few hours and come back and see the tag team has tagged Squawk, their nuclear weapon.
Man, the fallout is rough in here.
Give ‘em hell, picture boy.
Sorry for the reality check
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5197934.html
and Ron Paul cannot even answer to this observation himself. Nope an RPAcolyte was trotted out to answer.
She said
She said
She said
So on the one hand spending should be limited to Constitutionally prescribed spending but hey as long as the government is taking the money I am gonna get mine. That sure does not sound to me like a man that “honorably” stands on principle.
Go back to your boycott party with your free food.
Ol geazer’s usually support Hillary, hoping she will take care of them now that they are broke.
I think he’s someone that is just passionate about defending this country against terrorism. So much so that everything else doesn’t really matter.
I see so many conservatives that basically agree 100% with everything Ron Paul talks about and agree with basically nothing anyone else is saying up until you talk about the war in Iraq. But that one thing is enough and they dismiss the rest.
Geezer, yep that really is a fitting description. Much better than what my ex-wife calls me.
sad.
Judging Ron Paul by the number of bad laws congress passes is just, well, BAD. It makes no sense whatsoever, and I’m at a loss for why such seemingly intelligent people keep thinking that it does.
Hillary Clinton has passed a few laws, so by your own logic, you should be voting for her.
Nope no hillary for me. I am self supporting through my own OBSCENE PROFITS.
Still, getting back to the root of this, The mass media of today, sucks. It is way too powerful! Can we all agree on that?
Shannon,
I can handle myself, thanks.
I did not tag anyone, I don’t even know who these others are nor do I really care, I will be as cordial and respectful to anyone so long as the return it to me. Even if they don’t respect me I won’t stoop to cursing them.
Thank God, your not a Hillary fan.
Squawk you forget that he isn’t in congress for a medal or for himself. He is there to serve his constituents. Those that voted him in. Whether or not it’s right that so much money is taken from the people in taxes, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a duty to try and get those tax dollars spent the people he represents.
The systems is simply backwards. He won’t vote that he approves of them taking the money, but after they have taken it, it’s still his job to make sure that his people get their share of it.
Call it what you will but if my area is paying as much as the next in taxes but we aren’t getting anything for those taxes while everyone else is, just because my rep is trying to make a point. We are going to be looking to hang someone.
It’s bad enough you take my money, if you don’t give me at least something back for it that would just be insane.
Stephen
I am the moderator of this here blog. You have my permission to curse me all you want. Well keep it family friendly cursing ya know.
Glad to meet ya btw. I take as well as I give.
You can click my name or the Alert Moderator link above and contact me any time. I do answer emails.
Btw all this goes for anyone here. I and LST really do appreciate your particiaption and the exchanges.
jmw8888
I have already told this to another fellow in another thread.
I followed and supported Ron Paul for many years in fact from day one of his Texas run. Most of his policies I agree with. 911 changed me drastically for many personal reasons that I choose not to discuss. His foreign policy and I have parted ways.
I appreciate the exchange as well squawk and the forum to voice opinions. Quite a few blogs just don’t want to hear other opinions (either way) which is why I avoid them.
squawkbox,
thank but no thanks, there is no need to belittle others or myself by doing such.
I understand you are opinionated and so am I, I am at work enjoying a rather civil if annoying(due to blog comment form mostly) discussion. I am about to head out for the night but will be checking in, it has been a pleasure talking to you. Much more mature than the freepers or the hannitized.
squawk i assumed as much and respect that choice.
Yep, no problem. There’s got to be a reason I was sucked into this here blog for many hours of my day. Thank you.
Be careful out there. Thems amatures driving them cars out there. I know cuz I was a trucker for many years.
if I made a donation coudl it go toward LST getting a proper forum environment?
Tell ya what. Email me with your idea and I will pass it along to the editor.
A donation would assure that we stay here. Bandwidth gets expensive.
ok heading out now, closing with this update from CNBC
http://www.cnbc.com/id/21270546
I am a true American and I do, though not with RP.
#182 Stephen
That is just not the case. We cannot move troops without airstrips. Can’t be done. Sure, we can unload guys on a beach somewhere but do you truly think that is effective?
We simply must have strategic locations around the world so that we can effectively protect both our security and our economy. IMHO
#187 badnickname
Can you point me to the word “earmark” in the Constitution?
#197 jmw8888
You really didn’t just say that, did you? Good grief. Big bad corporations. Here we go.
Looks like some at CNBC are beginning to regret their decision to pull the poll…
http://www.cnbc.com/id/21270546
Stephen, the problem with your #200 is that Islamofascists aren’t pirates on the high seas, seeking to take over ships for their bounty.
They want to take over our country, bounty be damned.
#215 jmw8888
He’s so purty.
BTW, would you take Ron Paul’s name in vain like that?
Who’s Ron Paul?
Been working too much to post lately.
Man, when the Honorable and highly enlightened one gets mentioned, there sure are a lot of new folks that show up (rock chuckin’ Paulisitinians). I skipped over most of this stuff because I’ve heard it all before. Blah blah neocon blah blah.
Vote for whom you please in the primaries, but remember, when RP loses who are you going to back?
Hillary or Obama? Maybe Edwards? Not me, I don’t get all warm n fuzzy for any of the candidates, but I sure don’t like the dhimmicrat side. I’d hold my nose and vote for Ron Popeil before I voted for one of the dhimmis.
Welcome to LST’s black hole, fasternu.
Do we get gold stars or medals for reading this thread? I deserver something!!
LMAO. In # 239, a guy that picks a nick LifeSucksGetOverIt says that it’s “sad” that an old geezer cares enough about his country to point out that Ron Paul is a hypocrite loser.
Funny stuff around here.
#242 badnickname
No, we can’t agree on that. The mass media is not all powerful and is losing power every day. Does the mass media influence you and your opinion?
#264, I stayed home in ‘04. Blogged anti-Kerry a lot, but could not lower my standards to the point of trying to pick up a piece of dog-poop by its cleanest end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douche_and_Turd
# 199 Squawk
“An argument can be made that if it were not for American Corporations many of those people would not have a job at all.”
And Mussolini made the trains run on time.
They both had their good points and bad.
Hey, no fair. You are supposed to be eating shrimp.
little mikey
and we ain’t killing people either.
Nice… equating the US and US corporations with Mussolini
I am a member of the RNC, a life member of the NRA and TSRA, and a US ARMY veteran. I have and will continue to support Ron Paul. In online polls, phone polls, or via donations. If he fails to win the nomination, I will support the Republican who does. Just as I have for the last 20 years.
But it would be refreshing to have a President with high standards who does not walk all over the Constitution for a change. It is not a dead or outdated document, or abstraction as some believe.
And by the way, there is nothing wrong with having “a dream” or “ideals”. That is what this country was founded on.
I got yer Ron Paul high standards right here and here.
# 172 Squawk
“and we ain’t killing people either”
By “we” do you mean multinational corporations?
I could take issue, but I have a fresh strawberry pie to eat….
Enjoy the pie. I got BBQ chicken, mashed taters amd carrots to consume and a fine Cohiba for desert .
St. Thomas Aquinas is spinning in his grave about all the foregoing philosophizing.
Ain’t that the truth!
From one geezer to another, I salute you for post #246 Squawkbox.
If I understand correctly, Ron Paul deal-breakers for you seem to be:
1. His position on the roll, size, and disposition of the United States military and its relationship to international trade.
2. His congressional earmarks.
If I’m incorrect in that summary, I would appreciate any clarification you’d be willing to give.
If Ron Paul supported the current level of U.S. military presence in world affairs, and had never asked for any share of the taxes paid by his constituents to be returned to his district, how would that affect your view of his candidacy?
Wow!,
Since I was on here previous, it all went from mostly jovial, to stagnantly-ripe rather quickly. I can now see how a lot of you could be detracted from Paul supporters. They fly in here all willy-nilly, throw out some accusations and rhetoric, then… Gone. I’ve posted here on LST sporadicly for a while, my account was opened six months or so ago. Any way, I’ll keep supporting Paul, for as I said previous, there really is no better option out there. As President if he gets a tenth of what he hopes done, it’ll come as a surprise. However, he IS the only one advocating for individual freedoms, unified liberty, and structured prosperity. Whenever there is a candidate propionate to those, and also for gun rights, I will always vote for them. When it comes down to it I will always vote for gun rights. Yet, that does seclude half the GOP “top tier”, so if they get the nod (Gulliani, McCain, or Romney…) I’ll be hard pressed not to sit this one out.
Just a (re)fresher for those who my not know the humble platform as it started…
Republican Party Platform of 1856
This Convention of Delegates, assembled in pursuance of a call addressed to the people of the United States, without regard to past political differences or divisions, who are opposed to the repeal of the Missouri Compromise; to the policy of the present Administration; to the extension of Slavery into Free Territory; in favor of the admission of Kansas as a Free State; of restoring the action of the Federal Government to the principles of Washington and Jefferson; and for the purpose of presenting candidates for the offices of President and Vice- President, do
Resolved: That the maintenance of the principles promulgated in the Declaration of Independence, and embodied in the Federal Constitution are essential to the preservation of our Republican institutions, and that the Federal Constitution, the rights of the States, and the union of the States, must and shall be preserved.
Resolved: That, with our Republican fathers, we hold it to be a self-evident truth, that all men are endowed with the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and that the primary object and ulterior design of our Federal Government were to secure these rights to all persons under its exclusive jurisdiction; that, as our Republican fathers, when they had abolished Slavery in all our National Territory, ordained that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law, it becomes our duty to maintain this provision of the Constitution against all attempts to violate it for the purpose of establishing Slavery in the Territories of the United States by positive legislation, prohibiting its existence or extension therein. That we deny the authority of Congress, of a Territorial Legislation, of any individual, or association of individuals, to give legal existence to Slavery in any Territory of the United States, while the present Constitution shall be maintained.
Resolved: That the Constitution confers upon Congress sovereign powers over the Territories of the United States for their government; and that in the exercise of this power, it is both the right and the imperative duty of Congress to prohibit in the Territories those twin relics of barbarism–Polygamy, and Slavery.
Resolved: That while the Constitution of the United States was ordained and established by the people, in order to “form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty,” and contain ample provision for the protection of the life, liberty, and property of every citizen, the dearest Constitutional rights of the people of Kansas have been fraudulently and violently taken from them.
Their territory has been invaded by an armed force;
Spurious and pretended legislative, judicial, and executive officers have been set over them, by whose usurped authority, sustained by the military power of the government, tyrannical and unconstitutional laws have been enacted and enforced;
The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been infringed.
Test oaths of an extraordinary and entangling nature have been imposed as a condition of exercising the right of suffrage and holding office.
The right of an accused person to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury has been denied;
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, has been violated;
They have been deprived of life, liberty, and property without due process of law;
That the freedom of speech and of the press has been abridged;
The right to choose their representatives has been made of no effect;
Murders, robberies, and arsons have been instigated and encouraged, and the offenders have been allowed to go unpunished;
That all these things have been done with the knowledge, sanction, and procurement of the present National Administration; and that for this high crime against the Constitution, the Union, and humanity, we arraign that Administration, the President, his advisers, agents, supporters, apologists, and accessories, either before or after the fact, before the country and before the world; and that it is our fixed purpose to bring the actual perpetrators of these atrocious outrages and their accomplices to a sure and condign punishment thereafter.
Resolved, That Kansas should be immediately admitted as a state of this Union, with her present Free Constitution, as at once the most effectual way of securing to her citizens the enjoyment of the rights and privileges to which they are entitled, and of ending the civil strife now raging in her territory.
Resolved, That the highwayman’s plea, that “might makes right,” embodied in the Ostend Circular, was in every respect unworthy of American diplomacy, and would bring shame and dishonor upon any Government or people that gave it their sanction.
Resolved, That a railroad to the Pacific Ocean by the most central and practicable route is imperatively demanded by the interests of the whole country, and that the Federal Government ought to render immediate and efficient aid in its construction, and as an auxiliary thereto, to the immediate construction of an emigrant road on the line of the railroad.
Resolved, That appropriations by Congress for the improvement of rivers and harbors, of a national character, required for the accommodation and security of our existing commerce, are authorized by the Constitution, and justified by the obligation of the Government to protect the lives and property of its citizens.
Resolved, That we invite the affiliation and cooperation of the men of all parties, however differing from us in other respects, in support of the principles herein declared; and believing that the spirit of our institutions as well as the Constitution of our country, guarantees liberty of conscience and equality of rights among citizens, we oppose all legislation impairing their security.
#259 Bigjolly
“You really didn’t just say that, did you? Good grief. Big bad corporations. Here we go.”
lol take things out of context much. Try rereading what was written and hopefully you can understand it better the 2nd time. No one said anything about any Big bad corporations.