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16 Responses to “November Ballot - Proposition 13”
  1. Bannable Lecturer on October 23rd, 2007 at 6:56 am

    Bigjolly

    Off Topic but sort in your series on Bonds

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5236349.html

  2. Owen Courrèges on October 23rd, 2007 at 7:56 am

    I’m actually not with you on this one. I think the abuses will be far more prevalent than you think — especially because this amendment drastically increases the incentive to trump up a protective order to gain an edge in litigation.

    If the standard were different, say clear and convincing evidence of violence or a threat of violence, I would feel differently. However, that would still leave discretion with the judge. The problem here is that discretion is needed.

    I think you’ll see a great many innocent men in prison if this passes.

  3. bigjolly on October 23rd, 2007 at 8:06 am

    Owen,

    Thanks. Like I said, I’m split on this one. I don’t think the numbers will be that high but I could be wrong.

  4. bob42 on October 23rd, 2007 at 8:47 am

    Compassion urges agreement, but conscious urges caution. Powers intended for good use can easily be misused.

    Especially in the case of divorce proceedings, which tend to be emotionally charged, family law can get pretty ugly. I’d hate to see a well intentioned measure turned into a tool used to threaten and intimidate either party.

  5. coffee on October 23rd, 2007 at 9:09 am

    It is a tough call, but there is no consequence for those that would abuse this power otherwise I might be able to support it.

  6. bigjolly on October 23rd, 2007 at 9:24 am

    Remember, the person must have already been given bail and then violated the terms of the protective order.

    I just don’t think it will involve mass incarceration nor be abused except on a rare occasion. Not good, but better than a violent episode.

  7. Maltboy! on October 23rd, 2007 at 9:50 am

    bigjolly says:

    In the end, I’m going to vote for the amendment, knowing full well that there will be an occasional abuse of it by a scorned wife or an overzealous judge.

    I can’t believe you actually think it’s acceptable to allow citizens to be unjustly imprisoned as long as the net result is a few less criminals on the streets. On second thought, considering the complete lack of linear thought you’ve demonstrated in quite a few of your recent posts, I can believe it.

    Hey bigjolly, why not just put anybody who is charged with a felony in prison without bail. That’s the only way we can be sure to get ‘em all, right? Who cares if they aren’t guilty? Sheesh!

  8. bigjolly on October 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 am

    There you go, Maltboy!, proving once again that you don’t bother to read entire postings and cannot put your arms around conceptual thinking.

    Enjoy my ‘non-linear’ thinking. ;-)

  9. bigjolly on October 23rd, 2007 at 10:07 am

    And you probably dance like a robot.

  10. Maltboy! on October 23rd, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    Bigjolly, those were your words I quoted, weren’t they?

    I’d rather dance like a robot than write like a clueless idiot.

  11. BarryM on October 23rd, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    I’m very much against this one. I think “Protective Orders” should be carefully reviewed.
    Judges discriminate against men in protective order hearings. I know personally 2 cases where the wife beat and abused the husband(in one case ran him over with a car breaking his leg), yet the judges in both cases not only refused to issue a protective order against the women, but also allowed for the abusive wife to obtain a protective order against the husband.
    Protective orders take away your 2nd amendment rights without a fair trial.
    The protective order is a pre-crime attack on ones civil rights where you are judged guilty whether or not one is innocent.
    Denying bail in such cases is basically imprisoning someone without a fair trial and destroying their life.
    I vote against.
    Bad law.

  12. Shannon on October 23rd, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    I will be voting against this one. It expands unnecessarily the power of the state.

  13. Robert Gartner on October 24th, 2007 at 8:51 am

    The filing of Protective and Restraining orders is among the #1 dirty moves for gaining control of the kids in a custody suit. Therefore many of them are falsely imposed and the momentum of law enforcement is deeply skewed against a man. Just look at the federal Violence Against Women Act brought to you by the likes of Senator Joe Biden. Not one shelter is dedicated for an abused man therein.

    And from the article above it seems that a judge already has at thier disposal the means to deny bail.

    I cant help but feel that this proposition in among the myriad of bills, props, and acts that are and have been heaped upon us by a certain faction of the women’s movement, that being those among the misandrists. For that we should all become better educated. Consdier for example that 85% of half the nations kids reside in a female headed household. Where is democracy and equality for children and thier fathers today?

    Peruse the site http://www.mediaradar.org
    Robert Gartner
    Houston, Texas

  14. Bill F on October 24th, 2007 at 3:01 pm

    Bad idea. This one will be thrown out before it ever takes effect if it is passed. By tying in the possession of a firearm issue again, they are trying to deny people their second ammendment rights without due process. You cannot take away a person’s constitutional rights without due process…period! Lets just give a for instance. If I have a CHL and my wife decided to divorce me, she could file for the divorce and get a restraining order against me without my ever being aware of it. If I went to my house (since I still lived there with my wife to the best of my knowledge), then I could be arrested and thrown in jail without bail for violating the protective order while in possession of a firearm, simply because I tried to go to my house while I was legally carrying a gun that I was licensed to carry by the state.

    Look, domestic violence is terrible, and I don’t want criminals to have guns anymore than anybody else. But you can’t allow the effort to stop domestic violence to trample on 220 year old constitutional rights.

  15. bigjolly on October 24th, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    BillF,

    Your “for instance” is incorrect. You have to have been notified of the order.

  16. Maltboy! on October 25th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    Vote “NO” on this suspension of habeas corpus! True conservatives have the guts to accept a little more risk to preserve citizen’s rights!

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