Final word on Jena?
by Owen Courrèges · 10/24/2007 10:47 amI know all of you are as sick of hearing about Jena as you are about Ron Paul, but some information has surfaced that I’ve never come upon previously.
Craig Franklin, Assistant Editor of the Jena Times, has penned an op-ed for the Christian Science Monitor in which he lays out twelve “myths” of the Jena 6 attack. Virtually all of them contain facts I’ve heard before — that the idea that there was a “white tree” is generally disputed, that Mychal Bell had a long rap sheet, and that the local D.A. was not pointing to black students specifically when he warned the student body against further violence.
However, I was not aware that an investigation of the “noose hanging” incident indicated that there was no racial motive whatsoever:
An investigation by school officials, police, and an FBI agent revealed the true motivation behind the placing of two nooses in the tree the day after the assembly. According to the expulsion committee, the crudely constructed nooses were not aimed at black students. Instead, they were understood to be a prank by three white students aimed at their fellow white friends, members of the school rodeo team. (The students apparently got the idea from watching episodes of “Lonesome Dove.”) The committee further concluded that the three young teens had no knowledge that nooses symbolize the terrible legacy of the lynchings of countless blacks in American history. When informed of this history by school officials, they became visibly remorseful because they had many black friends. Another myth concerns their punishment, which was not a three-day suspension, but rather nine days at an alternative facility followed by two weeks of in-school suspension, Saturday detentions, attendance at Discipline Court, and evaluation by licensed mental-health professionals. The students who hung the nooses have not publicly come forward to give their version of events.
I said previously that I thought the superintendent of the school was either stupid or racist to have called the noose hanging a simple “prank.” I did so under the assumption that it was undisputed that the incident was directed at black students. Now it sounds like he was right — and I apologize for the error.
The facts surrounding Jena are still controversial, of course, but there are innocuous explanations for everything — except the attack on Barker. It sounds like the whole mess was yet another orchestrated racial hoax.
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Keep trying Owen, keep trying.
Now that’s funny.
#1 - now what if he’s right? Nobody’s saying that racism doesn’t exist, or even wasn’t ultimately a factor in Jena, but people do stupid things sometimes, and the fact is that Bell and others put a young man that had nothing to do with the original incident in the hospital.
I agree, you have to think that a noose is a positive thing or a negative thing and how many years has it been since lonesome dove’s been on the air? Like over a Dozen going on 20?
Also did you know it is produced by Motown Records? Last I checked they were not an organization that was likely to have a lynching episode…
I meant I agree with bigjolly
FACTS! We don’ need no stinkin FACTS!
The Race Card works every time.
bigjolly,
Of course it’s silly, because we all know how good your average high school student’s knowledge of American history is:
http://www.education-world.com/a_issues/issues100.shtml
Moreover, even if the students knew that lynchings occurred, there’s no compelling reason to believe that the symbolism necessarily clicked — that people would understand the noose hanging to be a reference to lynchings. That makes them ignorant, but not necessarily racist.
And in any case, the only testimony the board was relying on was that of the students themselves. Are you suggesting that they should have reached a contrary result without any contrary evidence?
Bannable,
Lonesome Dove hasn’t been on for some time, but it might be in re-runs on some stations. Heck, I watched Car 54: Where are you? as a kid on Nick at Night. It hardly impeaches the students’ testimony.
The bottom line, bigjolly, is that you have NOTHING LEFT when it comes to Jena. That’s why you continue to resort to one-liners, innuendo, and unfounded assumptions. You cling to your position no matter how much the facts change, and you never apologize for getting it wrong.
#6 - Owen - You are absolutely right. Those who know their history well enough also know the association of a noose with the KKK, but American society is notoriously ignorant of history and nooses (which have also been used by governments to execute criminals for thousands of years) are far from an exclusive trademark of the Klan.
In the last several weeks there have been multiple news stories about people putting up Halloween decorations in their yards including (gasp!) a noose on a tree. There is no racial motive in doing so. They simply associated a noose with executions, guts, and gore - all common themes of halloween declarations. In practically every case the nooses were hanging there along with various plastic ghosts and goblins for weeks without any problems.
Then inevitably some NAACP type or, more frequently, a MSM reporter in search of a fabricated “controversy” assumes that a noose hanging between three pumpkins, a plastic skelaton, and a bunch of that fake spider web stuff could not possibly mean anything other than racism. So the next thing you know some news crew is banging on a bewildered family’s front door, demanding to know why they have a “KKK display” in their front yard.
If it sounds absurd (and it is), be aware that this has nonetheless happened dozens of times in the last month all over America as Halloween approaches. See here:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=halloween+noose&btnG=Search+News
This whole thing just shows why hate crimes are unconstitutional, who is to say what’s the motive of someone who committed a crime. A person who kills a child or someone who is not of their race/religion is no more or less guilty than the other. Equal justice under the law.
Let me explain the school board committee’s line of thinking here, you know the same school board that over-ruled the local principal?
And so it goes. Nice try.
I guess I have to stop watching “Desperate Housewives”. One of them tried to hang herself not long ago. I never realized it had racial meanings. In order to be fair, I will have to start watching BET more.
Owen, these aren’t new “facts”. The Lonesome Dove stuff has been widely reported, Google it man. Just because you missed it doesn’t make it new. The Chicago Tribune had during trial for goodness sakes.
I don’t apologize for getting it right, sorry. Some day the nation will have to come to grips with racism that is embedded in our society.
Owen
Don’t you know by now that BigJolly is never wrong.
bigjolly,
First of all, the notion that there was a “white tree” is disputed. Teachers and students alike both claim that to be a myth. The first half of your condescending story is bunk. We’ve been over this before.
Secondly, it is perfectly plausible that the incident was a prank on the rodeo team by students ignorant of how their actions would be interpreted. They were probably vaguely aware that white racists had lynched blacks in the past, but didn’t understand that nooses on a street were necessarily symbolic of those lynchings. You have no evidence to show it was anything other than that other than your own personal bias (and apparent love for all things Rev. Bean).
Thirdly, your entire story is a strawman. I know you don’t like people pointing it out, because you use strawman arguments so blasted often, but when you ridicule somebody else’s argument while exaggerating some facts and misstating others, that’s a strawman — and it proves absolutely nothing. Nobody is saying that there’s no racism in Jena, or that these kids are all straight out of Archie comics. I’m just saying that there’s no solid proof of racism underlying this incident.
Forthly, if you continue saying “nice try” and other patronizing one-liners rather than engaging the issue, you’re only showing yourself to be stubborn and rude. A little snarkiness is fine, but that’s all you’re offering now — post after post of nothing but snark. It’s rude and uncalled for.
Also, in my personal experience, it’s something that people resort to when they’ve lost the argument and don’t want to admit defeat. “Nice try,” “thanks for playing,” and the like are the hallmarks of poor sports.
Owen
Lonesome Dove is mainly a mini series - its not shone much if less than once a year
http://www.cbspressexpress.com/div.php/cbs_entertainment/search?words=Lonesome+dove&config=releases&restrict=&sort=time
Also, it takes place not in the south but in Texas, and yet to be shone a lynching scene its mainly about Cowboys and Indians
Go figure
That should be shown……
my bad
bigjolly,
It was a new fact to me. Very little of the reporting on Jena mentioned the alternative explanation of the noose incident. As far as Googling it, most of what I’m seeing is from the article I just cited. This wasn’t well-reported before.
You’re correct that we need to get over embedded racism. However, that has nothing to do with your habit of jumping to conclusions on flimsy or non-existent evidence.
Bannable,
Well, the students had certainly heard of it, and knew about the hanging scene. Apparently, they had seen it.
These are rural white kids — it isn’t bizarre to think they’ve seen Lonesome Dove.
Owen
I feel that no one (with the exception of my mother in law) has the right to be enraged by a non event to violence.
But this crap that they didn’t know - the act is not worthy of discussion a couple of days of detention.
The beating was no related to Jena and the overheated rhectoric and now the making up facts like Lonesome Dove is turning this into a never ending farce
#16. I can go home right now and watch Lonesome Dove because I have it on DVD. You don’t have to depend on network television to watch something.
Bannable,
BTW — Texas is in the south.
I wonder if anybody bother to tell Al Sharpton these facts. Just like the Twanay Brawley (sp) incident a few years back. We, have Rev. Al jumping to conclusions and going with it to get publicity for himself. To me all this Jena stuff was to strenghten the racist attitudes on both sides and this is why we can’t get over it.
Facts are that the 6 beat another student.
Facts are there were prior criminal charges against some of them.
Did I mention black, white, hiuspanic ? No these boys need time.
One last fact. I have never seen Lonesome Dove. Not a TV person.
Dov, I hate to get on your bad side, especially on a beautiful day like this but, you know how I am…
That is not a fact. It is a fact that the prosecutor charged 6 teenagers for beating another one. Thus far, one, Mychael Bell, has gone to trial, been convicted and had the conviction overturned because he was tried in the wrong court.
If you read the original witness statements, you are going to have a hard time finding those six names. In fact, you are going to have a hard time determining if more than one person actually beat anyone.
I don’t know if Mychael Bell will be convicted again or not. Or if any of the others will. But I do know that the next time there is a court battle, it will be a fairer fight. Sure, the odds are always in favor of the prosecution but they shouldn’t be so overwhelmingly in favor that convictions are not fair.
True statement of fact.
Nope, you did not mention color.
Neither have I, another fact.
bigjolly, never underestimate the stupidity of high school kids when trying to plan a prank. I personally do not think we will know if the noose event was racially motivated or not. Since there were multiple kids involved, it is entirely possible that it was and wasn’t at the same time. That being said, this turned in to a racial issue before Sharpton and Jackson got involved. Whether we like it or not, both black and white Americans still carry the baggage of our collective histories, and the poor reaction on both sides of this issue simply bring it to life.
There are some glaring conclusions hitting me in the face about all this…first, reading the comments, many of the commenters seem to have trouble accepting the facts(Lonesome Dove noose etc.)…are we brainwashed to think that deep in our freedom loving American hearts we are racists?
Would these conclusions be drawn anywhere else in the world at any other time?
Secondly, we had better take a very serious look at what we call “news” in this country. News is paramount in this country, a free republic…
evidenced by all the safeguards in the Constitution
to keep it truthful and factual …freedom of speech, freedom of press,freedom of assembly etc.
It seems perhaps gossip and rumor mongering have been masquarading as news…maybe its more profitable.
bj
Can’t get on my bad side over a difference of opinion. Especially on a day like today.
What happened to the good old Air Force brat days ? I was raised on base where we did not know what racism was. I first heard the N word in Houston at the age of 16.
Reminds me of something.
I landed a job one time managing a business and the previous manager was black. V, the previous manager called me and asked me to look in the books and give him a phone number. I said V you know I can’t do that. He said “Are you treating me like this because I am black ?” I quickly quipped “Are you treating me like this because I am Jewish?” Dead silence and then a dial tone.
Anyone who’s watched Jay Leno when he does his Jay Walking segment that there’s an entire population that hasn’t a clue about CURRENT events let alone things transpiring 40 years ago.
I find their ignorance of black lynchings believable because ignorance abounds in todays populous.
Those of you who desperately want to believe that justice is being served in Jena won’t want to check out my response to Craig Franklin at http://friendsofjustice.wordpress.com/blog/
#29 I agree with you. The first thing that struck me when reading this was, our media cannot get information right. They are responsible for the non-existant rapes at the super dome, etc. Does LST have to become national and send out it’s own reporter to get the facts straight. This is another example of the poorest journalism… The MSM writing the story they would prefer it to be. Right now they are scratching their heads in California, trying to find the horrible, bad side to the way the refugees are being taken care of.
High-school kids today barely know what state they live in by name and few could ever find it on a map.
I totally believe they had no idea what a noose implies.
I’m surprised whenever a high-schooler even manages to find his way to school each day. They either get lost or forget where they were going in the first place…
Today, Rush Limbaughs call typist, got a text message from her daughter while in advanced US History highschool class. The teacher was talking about the schips ( sp) that was shot down and how Rush Limbaugh trashed a 12 year old boy. Dawn, the call typist, explained to the girl the truth. This teacher teaches current political topic, with a liberal slant and doesn’t touch US History. She got caught give out test questions and answers a day before the test, so that she wouldn’t get caught teaching off topic to her students. The principal told her she couldn’t do that anymore. If this is an example of US History class, then a lot of kids don’t know much about the civil rights period, and what happened leading up to it.
Reply to No. 29: You have to remember that Jay’s people select the dumbest of the dumbest for TV showing. But you are right because our education system has gotten away from history and we don’t read the newspapers anymore. So if one doesn’t learn from history, then one tends to repeat history and unfortunately sometimes the bad things.
This never would have happened if Gore would have won! Bush is to blame! And he ran over my puppy!
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06/elwoodAP_450×363.jpg
/sarc (in case you’re too dumb to figure it out)
My puppy before:
http://www.hot-screensaver.com/wp-myimages/very-cute-puppy.jpg
My puppy after:
http://heynice.com/media-archives/2006-05/peewee.jpg
This story is screwed up beyond all belief. I don’t believe any of them.
I resisted all day but now I just have to say it:
1. Was the original noose incident racist? Opinions vary, the facts are difficult to come by because there are so many versions of the “facts” out there.
2. In my opinion the original incident, the noose, was probably racist and for rest of my discussion I am going to assume as fact that it was.
3. The guilty in the original noose hanging incident were punished, opinions vary if the punishment was enough, but the incident was not criminal. Per the D.A.
4. The noose incident does not, IMHO, excuse the young men that beat another unconscious.
5. What is racist, Again IMHO, is the way many liberal so called news sources reported the incident. When all of the blame is laid at the feet of noose hangers, and the young men committing the assault are considered “victims” something is definitely wrong.
6. Racism continues in this incident when we have the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and some elected leaders that want complete exoneration for those committing the assault and federal hate crimes charged against the noose hangers, that, IMHO, is RACIST.
You’ll be aghast when some of Jays interviewees relate that they’re a teacher in some educational institution up to & includion college. See this more often than I’d care to.
#30 - Those of you who desperately want the story to be more sinister and screwed up than it already is will read Mr. Bean’s accounts.
Face it, there are multiple white and black people involved in this whole sordid affair who are guilty of something - poor taste, lack of judgement, racism, assault, perhaps even attempted murder.
Why, then do we have to make the racism aspect of this thing bigger than it is?
Again, nobody is saying that racism has nothing to do with this Jena story, but there is clearly at least one person, who happens to be black, with numerous violent offenses under his belt, who needs to go go jail.
jimb
Not according to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. According to those guys the Young Black offender should be given a free pass.
I showed up at the first BrewHaHa with a perfectly executed noose around a stuffed GOP elephant’s neck.
I now know that my idea must have come from the deep dark depths of my latent racist heart.
Oh, oh, oh how will I ever make amends?
Reparations is the only way.
To whom do I make out the check?
42
correction: MY first BHH
#42 Make the check out to me and make it substantial….. my psyche has been forever hurt. In fact I dream of elephants with nooses……….
I am so sorry AW.
The check’s in the mail.
O.K. This story reminds me of something that happened at least 10 years ago. True story, BTW. The Lab where I worked hired an attractive, tall, 30 something “Black Gal” as our secretary, we did without one before this. She was the only female in a group of about 15 guys. She had played Basketball in La Marque HS. Her and 3 of the younger guys used to get together and “STS” tell jokes and and carry on. One day, when the Rockets were in the play-offs, and were playing a team, (Orlando?), that had a big Black Guy that wore blue glasses on the court, they were talkin’ trash about him. As it turned out, we had tested a piece of equipment that was “Man Rated” so we had a “Crash Dummy” to use for the test. Turns out that this P.C. Dummy was sort of a brown color, (looked Hispanic to me). Anyway they went to the tool crib and got a pair of safety glasses and used a Sharpie to color the outer rims blue, they put them on the Dummy along with a Tee-Shirt with his number penciled on it. Then they proceeded to stab him with a Screw driver. I saw this, then someone put a noose around his neck, all the while, all 4 of them were laughing and carrying on. Then they went to lunch. They left the Dummy sitting on a pallet with noose around his neck. Now granted, had anyone seen this they would get the wrong idea, I know that I would. They should have taken the noose off after their play-time. About an hour after they got back from lunch the Gal went down the hall and got one of our Black Engineers and showed it to him, bawling her eyes out and making a big deal out of it. I knew him well and he was a good guy, but she didn’t tell him the whole story, so excrement splattered all over the rotating instrument and before it was over the 3 Di*k- Heads had a letter in their file, and came DAMN close to being fired! Clearly this was not racial until she made it so, if she was offended why didn’t she say something? I’m guessing that she had a chip on her shoulder and saw this as an opportunity. I steered clear of her after that, I was afraid that she might set me up. We had got along just fine before this happened, but I just couldn’t risk it. A few weeks later they all back in the grove and having a good time. I couldn’t believe it! The Black Engineer never found out the truth, I know that he would have understood, but I just decided to stay out of it. She went on to bigger and better things a few months later and we got another little Black Gal, that was about 5 foot tall and tougher’n nails. She was all right! She sent a guy back home to Africa, after he told her, during a fight, that the only reason he married her was to become a citizen.
Trust me, kids who grow up in the rural south understand the noose reference. Not a question. The Lonesome Dove claim is silly.
Also, the Jena Times (where you culled this piece) is the only media I’ve seen that dispute whether the tree was informally reserved for whites - if it weren’t the case, why would black students have felt the need to ask the school if they could sit there?
Jimb asks, “Why, then do we have to make the racism aspect of this thing bigger than it is?” I think the answer may be that there are a lot of folks like Owen and the Jena Times who want to pretend racism played NO role, and that’s just not true.
Grits,
Again, it’s not necessarily true that the kids understood how their actions would be interpreted. You can overestimate the cultural knowledge of teenagers at your own risk. In any event, the only evidence of the teens’ intent was their own testimony; saying that you simply don’t believe it would hold up in court, and neither would it suffice to uphold a severe punishment like expulsion.
Moreover, the Jena Times is not the only news source that has disputed the “whites only” tree narrative. The first time I saw it, the source was the Associated Press:
The so-called “white tree” at Jena High, often reported to be the domain of only white students, was nothing of the sort, according to teachers and school administrators; students of all races, they say, congregated under it at one time or another.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/WireStory?id=3638431&page=2
As for why a black student asked whether or not he could sit under the tree, Franklin explains in his piece that “[w]hen a student asked during an assembly at the start of school last year if anyone could sit under the tree, it evoked laughter from everyone present – blacks and whites. As reported by students in the assembly, the question was asked to make a joke and to drag out the assembly and avoid class.”
Again, I’m seeing more statements that amount to “come on! they have to be racist” with no supporting evidence. In my book, you never start shouting racism without compelling evidence.
Grits,
And for the record, I’m not necessarily saying that racism didn’t play a role. It may well be that the kids were lying and that they actually were trying to intimidate black students with a racist message. Accordingly, the whole “let’s scare the rodeo team” explanation may be nonsense.
However, I’m disturbed by the number of people, without any real evidence that the kids are lying besides their own suspicions, who are willing to say that conclusion is mandated by the facts. It’s not. You’re simply assuming that the kids would have understood that the nooses would be interpreted as symbolic of historic lynchings of blacks, but that might be giving them too much credit. Phil made a good point that the lines aren’t clear — some people are being harassed for hanged figures in Halloween decorations, and there’s a huge debate over that.
Heck, Grits — for a guy who rails on people being convicted on flimsy evidence, you’re supporting very flimsy conclusions.
White high school students were clueless about the connection between nooses and lynching of blacks?
Damn, those Louisiana schools must be more backward than I ever imagined. Or are the kids just that stupid? I’d be ashamed to admit I was that ignorant.
Maybe somebody should tell them that there were a couple of World Wars, development of atomic weapons, and this thing called the internet. Looks like our neighbors have a lot of catching up to do.
RickG,
They probably knew at least vaguely about the fact that blacks were lynched during the Jim Crow era; however, it’s a leap from knowing that to knowing that any display of a noose evokes images of those lynchings. It isn’t a matter of any particular state, either — many teens don’t take much of an interest in contemporary history.
If you want to see some common gaffes, just see my earlier comment regarding the percentages of high school students who missed some fairly basic historical facts.
I’d say it’s pretty pathetic that they couldn’t predict how this would be interpreted, presuming they’re telling the truth. However, it isn’t particularly shocking or incredible that teenagers would be so ignorant.
51.
It’s shocking to me. I knew the connection as a young child, long before high school. And I lived in an all-white, northern town where race problems were something that only happened far away. If a high schooler in Louisiana didn’t get it, yes, I find that shocking.
In any event, it’s not a flattering picture. Either they are woefully ignorant, or racist. I’m beginning to think this little town is a stereotypical backwoods dump.
Well Rick, that means you’re smarter than the average high school kid. It doesn’t prove that high school kids are incapable of stupidity though, or that race was a certain factor. Just look at the halloween decorations stuff. There are people all over the country being bombarded with unexpected media attention of noose decorations who had no clue it would also be interpreted as a racial thing (and frankly, it appears to be one of those cases where the media itself is actually going around and looking for a story to manufacture).
That may be a commentary on the general ignorance and short-sightedness of the public, but it’s a reality nonetheless. Kids are stupid and do stupid things. It’s also a point of irony that many of the same people who insist repeat offenders like Mychal Bell and Robert Bailey are just “children” yet they want to treat the students responsible for the nooses as if they had an educated adult’s understanding of racial symbolism.
I am frankly not sure WHAT is up and what is down anymore especially when Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton arrive on the scene in hysterics. IMHO teenagers ARE dumb enough to not think “oh gee if I put this noose up it might hurt somebody’s feelings”. Think about any teenagers you know or your own children or yourself when you were that age (whichever is easier for you, I know some of you can’t hardly remember being a teenager
). I personally watched Lonesome Dove about six months ago because it was in a box of movies at my granny’s and I was bored and it looked like a long movie. I barely remember there being lynchings in it but if I remember correctly it was only a method of carrying out justice (if I remember right which is always a question, the people who were hung were mostly other white males who had just committed murder or something). I can’t even remember if there was specifically a black man in it! I think the problem with this country is that we are TOO sensitive to race, oh my goodness will this offend the hispanics? will this offend the blacks? what about the asians? PEOPLE GROW UP! Nobody ever says “will this offend the whites?”
I will repeat I have no clue what really happened but I have HEARD that some kids beat up this other kid because of the noose. I ask you which act was more violent–the hanging of the noose or the beating of the kid? Personally I’d come down a little harder on someone beating somebody’s lights out than someone who just played a stupid, dumb, immature, unnecessary prank. But that’s just me…
RickG
I find it shocking that some high school kids cannot tell you the president is. Even fewer could tell you the vice President is. Most can not tell who the Secretary of State is.
While I find it shocking that does not mean it isn’t true.