You say you want a rHEIvoLution?
by LST Staff · 11/16/2007 7:01 am
The Fuhrer (sorry; furor) over neo-Nazi love for Ron Paul may be about to spill out of the blogosphere and into the real world.
It’s a disturbing phenomenon we first starting asking questions about back in early October. LST advanced the story by being the first (and to this point only) media source to confirm a campaign contribution to Paul by a leading neo-Nazi. The campaign’s (wholly inadequate, in our opinion) response came one week later.
Now there is a celebrity angle, which could easily cause the story to jump from mere “boring” politics to pop-culture infotainment.
Hutton Gibson, father of actor Mel Gibson, has endorsed Rep. Ron Paul (R., Texas) for president. “I intend to tell my 10 children and my 48 grandchildren that the only way to save the country is to vote for Ron Paul in 2008,” says Gibson, who appears in the video endorsement sitting on a sofa wearing a “Legalize Freedom” t-shirt.
Mr. Gibson is a paranoid, bigoted crank whose well-known and odious opinions on the Holocaust really need to be read in full to be appreciated.
We can’t help but wonder– if Ron Paul had blocked neo-Nazi websites from linking to his own, and returned neo-Nazi campaign contributions when they came to his attention, and issued an unambiguous statement back in October making it clear that there was no room in his Revolution for neo-Nazis, would Hutton Gibson still be so enthusiastically endorsing the Ron Paul campaign today?
Better yet, would his campaign now have to deal with this problem?
The Anti-Defamation League plans to ask Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul to distance himself from extremist groups.
Paul, a U.S. congressman from Texas, has come under fire for the support his campaign has enjoyed from leading white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups.
His campaign reportedly has accepted a donation from Don Black, the owner of the white supremacist Web site Stormfront. Sites for several extremist groups also feature prominent links supporting Paul’s candidacy.
ADL’s assistant director of civil rights, Steven Freeman, told JTA his organization planned to communicate with Paul privately and urge him to distance himself from those groups.
“If he doesn’t do that, then we will decide what we’re going to say publicly about it,” Freeman said.
We’re not always big fans of everything the ADL does (liberal bias, run as a fiefdom), but for the moment that matters less than this simple fact– the Paul campaign is about to reach a moment of truth on this issue.
They’re either going to continue with the same “We Don’t Judge Who Climbs Aboard the Love Train” song they’ve been singing thus far, or they’re going to change their tune.
Either way, once the ADL gets involved, in the eyes of the Mainstream Media you’ve got a legitimate news story. That means tough questions from real journalists, television reporters demanding a response from the candidate–not the spokesman– and best of all, reaction comments from competitor campaigns.
Enjoy your media-relations nightmare boys; you’ve earned it.
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510 Responses to “You say you want a rHEIvoLution?”Search
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i suggest dennis kucinich (sp) as his running mate.
I keep hearing that it is better to for something than against something in politics, LST hates Ron Paul! OK, OK, Geesh lets move on! I am starting to see why I visit this site less and less, because LST has gotten so lop-sided. Back up a little and remember that people tend to look at things with their own perspective, right or wrong.
Y’all are wearing it out about Ron Paul, ENOUGH!
Yawn…
I guess it is kind of a new wrinkle that the ADL is trying to benefit from Paul’s surge of popularity.
But overall, the fundamental illogic of LST’s approach still prevails. Making a mountain out of this molehill only gets traction with people who are already opposed to Dr. Paul.
Whether they originate from LST or ADL, baseless smear jobs like this one will be ineffective among his supporters, and reflect badly on those behind them.
You mean the 94 to 99 percent of Americans who are planning not to vote for him?
But…the LST contributors are people too! Are they not worthy of their own perspective?
Mona Charen has her own perspective:
Matt, If your referring to polling numbers you should be aware that you are distorting the facts. They don’t apply to all Americans, only registered republicans, with land lines.
You also misleadingly include the substantial numbers of poll respondents that are undecided.
Normally at this point in a conversation I’d try to say something encouraging, like “Nice try and keep trying!” Unfortunately in this case, neither apply.
But even if the statistics you distort were real, it still defies logic. If the man doesn’t stand a chance, why is LST so horribly concerned about him that they continue to embarrass themselves?
Racism by Dr. Ron Paul
” A nation that once prided itself on a sense of rugged individualism has become uncomfortably obsessed with racial group identities.
The collectivist mindset is at the heart of racism.
Government as an institution is particularly ill-suited to combat bigotry. Bigotry at its essence is a problem of the heart, and we cannot change people’s hearts by passing more laws and regulations.
It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails. Government “benevolence” crowds out genuine goodwill by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility among us.
Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than as individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called “diversity” actually perpetuate racism.
The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence - not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.
In a free society, every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty.”
’nuff said
Yup;
Some folks think getting support from Nazis is no big deal——
Mel Gibsons father? Come on guys you are much smarter then this.
You are giving his father and the Nazi group much more power and influence then either one has. I bet there are mental patients, murderers, and many illegal immigrants that support President Bush but I do not expect him to make any statements seperating himself from them.
The Nazi party is dead, what happened during that time was terrible and so was what happened during slavery. It is unfortunatly part of our past like so many other terrible times in the evolution of man we should never, ever forget but we need to move on and not support them by giving them more importance then they really have.
I hold no grudges over what happened to Christians in the past, lets get on with our future. I am sure Ron Paul loves all this attention and free publicity, I am sure it results in more contributions and support.
Well, not quite “’nuff said”. Other quotes from RP (via his newsletter with his name under it):
Given the amount of information out there:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_its.html
and the fact that this is showing up in the Wall Street Journal today, you guys can look forward to seeing it on O’Reilly soon, and the talk radio circuit is going to get hold of it as well.
Ron Paul will be lucky to be elected as Dog Catcher, certainly notn Congressman, and definetly NOT President.
“You are judged by the company you keep.” is not just some tired old aphrism—it’s the truth.
This is why Libertarianism absent Pragmatism doesn’t work. It’s similar to Socialism in that respect.
Pragmatically, you folks should have created the groundswell condeming Nazis in your midst. You were told about it early, you were kept updated, you knew who Nazis were and what they beleived in, and your response was:
“Nazis? No Big Deal. You’re the bad guys for pointing out the Nazis in our midst. This is GOOD for Ron Paul”
You’re fixing to find out the exact size a “deal” this is. Allegations like this which had a good deal less factual basis hurt Buchanan a few years ago. IN this case, there is a whole lot more “there” there.
# 2 “Yawn….”
My reaction too. LOL!
It ain’t gonna work, LST boys.
Next!
Hamous knows full well that the quoted comments were written more than 15 years ago by a staffer that was subsequently fired. Otherwise, he would have written “Ron Paul wrote…” instead of “via his newsletter with his name on it.” This is an old and thoroughly rebuked charge. To try to sell it as fact shows the complete dishonestly of those trying to discredit Paul.
AZ,
Forgive….you bet! BUT! folks that forget are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. Regrettably, there is a lot of that forgetting going around.
In fairness…I don’t believe Dr Paul is a racist or Nazi. Barry Goldwater got much the same treatment during his CREDIBLE run for President. He was associated with Nazis, Birchers, and other fringe groups, when his actual beliefs were pretty mainstream. Ironically, Barry Goldwater would be labeled a liberal by today’s standard.
I like some of Dr Paul’s ideas, but I can see where some of his wackier beliefs might appeal to fringe groups.
Dr Paul is a NECESSARY cost of admisssion to Democracy. He is that one guy that always shows up at townhall meetings with ideas that run counter to the conventional wisdom. Most of the time we dismiss these people, but occasionally folks like Paul are right. We ignore them at our own peril.
What Dr Paul is not is a LEADER. This is his biggest flaw and a deal killer for me. I want my President to LEAD. Regrettably, we haven’t seen a leader for a long time in the White House. I see no reason to continue that trend by putting Dr Paul in the White House. I do believe he serves a useful purpose a voice of contrarian reason in the Congress.
Simple
Then again I may be totally wrong on this one.
You’re not even reading the material.
LST is quoting an article that showed up in the Wall Street Journal today.
You Paulestinians once said that because these allegations showed in a small backwater blog, there was no need to respond to the fact that there is a considerable number of Nazis and White Supremacists in your midst.
It’s now bee commented on in the Wall Street Journal and on Micheal Medved’s Talk radio show, as well as on Hot Air, American Thinker, and Littel Green Footbals—and a host of other “backwater” blogs.
Is it time yet to denoucn the Nazis in your midst, or is it that youn know that the financial windfalls you;ve been reciving are dependent on thier support?
And if THAT is true, what can we, the American People, expect from a Candidate dfor the Nazis that ave contributed so richly to his campaing?
sorry for not closing the “bold” tag
I got yer back. LST Moderator
Hutton Gibson who lives just down the road is a looney racist scumbag. It tickles me to take my Goldwing and run down the road and turn around in his driveway. I know he sees red when I do it.
Oh did I forget to mention I have a large Magen David on my windshield that you can see from a block away.
I haven’t made any decision as to RP however some of his supporters are another question.
And LST Moderator. I promise not to post his address or pics of his house. Now Quannell 2 nickels address is another matter also :>)
Is there a retraction of the article in follow-up nesletters, or did the Paul campaign only respond once it was brought up in this campaign.
An article like that, absent a retraction and repudiation, is an indication of agreement—-
same as if you’re being supported financially and organizationally by Nazis and White Supremacists.
Ron Paul’s campaign employs black, Jewish, Mormon, Latino, and Chinese-American staffers. The assertion that he is a Nazi-sympathizer based on an unsolicited contribution from some nutjob in Florida is deeply silly.
By this logic, if that same nutjob bought a pair of jeans at Wal-mart, Wal-mart would be “supported financially and organizationally by Nazis and White Supremacists”
As Amadine knows full well, everything I posted in #10 is factual. What it proves is this. Not only is Ron Paul more than willing to accept Nazi money, he is also more than willing to surround himself with racists in his campaign.
But if this is “yawn… no big deal” why do you apologists continue to show up and come unglued every time we post one of these pieces? You guys crack me up.
I pretty much agree with Simple Simon’s take on things in #14, although after digging around in the cesspools of the internet during this whole affair I’m beginning to have my doubts about Paul’s true feelings. But if you acolytes truly believe in liberty why are you consistently telling us to shut up?
Oh PLEASE bring up “Jews for Ron Paul”! Please. I beg you.
It would seem the Little Oops(!) is growing and growing like the Energizer Bunny keeps going and going. This morning it is a considerably Bigger Oops(!)
It should be an object lesson to aspiring and current politicians of any stripe. Remedy the litte one before it grows or it could well come back to bite you hard in the rump.
14 I agree never forget, but to be constantly beaten around by it gets silly. Learn from it.
DOV, you admit to knowing where Mel’s father lives and even placing your vehicle in his driveway?
Be careful or you may be charged with guilt by association. Have you ever had eye contact with him? And I have been in the same Kroger store that you have been in and maybe Mel’s father has been there so am I
a Nazi? Have we ever been there at the same time? Oh my God!
That’s all you got, Hamous? I’m disappointed, you didn’t even try to rebuke my arguments. I had hoped that you had some intellectual chops. Guess not.
As Amadine also knows full well, this is not just about “an unsolicited contribution from some nutjob in Florida”. It is much deeper than that. But keep up the deride and deflect campaign.
Dov please email me his address, I want to be sure that my fluids never get mixed with his fluids in our community sewer system.
Do we drink from the same water wells? We need an investigation!
Does the Klein school district accept tax money from Mel Gibsons father!
They MUST return it, LST investigate!
Amadine, an off-the-wall comparison of a racist buying jeans at Walmart to Nazis supporting a man that wants to be the leader of the free world would not be classified as an argument worthy of rebuking.
AZ, lets get serious. You are coming here voluntarily. LST is not beating you with anything. The internet is a huge world with lots of places to visit. You don’t HAVE to come here and be subjected to this. You CHOOSE to do so.
AZ
That is pushing the envelope a bit. Hutton is known for the company he keeps and his ridiculous bigoted racist thoughts. Although he is a Catholic he even thinks the mainstream Catholics are unacceptable.
I was not going to say this but you got my attention. You said in # 9. The Nazi Party is dead. It is a tax free group in the USA. Dead my butt. And last but not least.
Forget it ? Forget it ? I can tell you horror stories about the holocaust and distant relatives. Forget it my butt.
And no KISD gets none of Gibsons money. Tomball ISD does.
When will Ron Paul Stop beating his wife?
This is a smear, plain and simple. I’m not sure it does any good to give a couple Nazis a couple hundred dollars back and beg them to keep Paul’s picture off their web sites. The truth is Ron Paul collected small amounts from over 35,000 Americans. The three biggest employers these donors listed were, the Army, the Navy and Google.
You know your opponent is desperate when he starts calling you a Nazi. Meanwhile Rudy has the backing of a priest accused of child molesting and a wide variety of crooks and thugs. The difference is Rudy sticks up for the priest and Paul’s campaign does its best to ignore a couple nut jobs who send him money. Paul is the number one Republican among black voters polled. Personally I hope, in the end, the Black Panthers, the KKK, the ADL, CAIR, the VFW, the AARP, teaher’s unions, the UAW, the John Birchers and the NAACP all get behind Ron Paul and send in their contributions.
Hamous, if you fail to see the logical validity of my Wal-mart analogy and maintain the validity of your non-sequitur and straw man arguments, then you have verified my claim that you don’t have the chops to engage in a serious, logical, and fact-based discussion. The readers should, therefore, rightly conclude that your argument is invalid. But I’m sure they already have.
Glad you mentioned those 35,000 Americans, Wanda. No doubt many of them were a result of “White Will” and his white supremacist buddies gaming the Youtube ThisNovember5th advert. “White Will” is Wil Williams. He was the southern coordinator for William Pierce’s (author of The Turner Diaries) National Alliance Party, the largest neo-Nazi party in the U.S. When setting up the Youtube gaming assault Williams said this: “”Everybody here can do this, except bjb w/his ni**erberry.” “bjb” stands for “Burn Jew Burn”, in case you were wondering. He’s the guy with the catchy little internet tag line: “Nothing says lovin’ like a Jew in the oven.”
You apologists are beginning to turn my stomach.
Hamous, Dov, just let these folks rant, soon enough they will see that denial is simply a river in Egypt, and their savior will go away..
We have much bigger fish to fry like Katy ISD’s plan to hire a sports/events marking firm that will come in and take 50% of all revenue from events that they plan, promote, and coordinate…
The story is here
and here
Ron Paul Macht Frei!
Does Godwin’s law apply here?
My beef is he wants our victorious troops to flee the battlefield like cowards.
Dhimmitude from a US President is not acceptable.
Hillary accepted money from Hsu (a runaway criminal) and the right leaning blogs (i.e. Michelle Malkin) nailed her for it. Ron Paul and Nazi contributers deserve the same treatment.
If we care about where the money that supports these campaigns comes from, then we care about where it comes from.
And to Ron Paul’s continued delight, in his case no news is bad news … and if the MSM is giving him press … it continues to give credibility to his campaign.
Either way … the guy doesn’t stand a ghost chance in hell of winning a general election. So it’s a moot point.
..and another invalid straw man argument from Hamous. Keep digging, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. You’re due.
31.
It’s not a smear if its true.
Why do the Pauliacs not want to discuss Jews for Paul? Hmmm?
Riddle me this: how many frauds and whackjobs must make up a campaign before the candidate is held accountable?
I think the Dishonorable Doctor Paul is about to find out.
“even a blind squirrel finds a nut”
dig…dig….dig…
Look, Ron Paul!
You’re fixing to find out the exact size a “deal” this is.
40
Quit channeling my brain, Sarge
Hamous you are 100% correct, but this is supposed to be a platform of shared opinions and in my opinion you have the potential for a great product here, you guys work hard and produce some good material, but you damage and cheapen all that good work with items such as this. Go to TalkinTexas.com I do post links there to here.
Dov, it is just as much pushing the envelope as using Gibsons father.
And please, please read what I wrote twice here in comments posted above, never forget, and learn from the mistakes of the past.
My mother-in-law was in a concentration camp, so please do not try and explain the horror of what they went through, I heard it from her. But she got on with her life, never forgot, was greatly affected by it, but got on with her life until the day she died.
Now please people read all that I write not just what you think I meant.
Bweldon, we’ve obviously got a couple of the stormfronters showing up here today. Real Americans fought and died for these low-life’s right to be Nazis but even if there are bigger fish to fry they still need to be called out for the scumbags they are. Real Americans also fought and died for my right to do it.
Funny you should bring that up. You see, a while back, Wal-Mart bought a bunch of t-shirts with a skull-and-bones logo that turned out to be a symbol of a Nazi SS division. It was an innocent error — some Wal-Mart buyer thought the design looked cool and didn’t know about the Totenkopf reference.
Within a day, Wal-Mart pulled the shirts from its shelves, publicly apologized, and pledged to review its buying procedures to avoid similar mistakes in the future.
Regardless, your analogy is flawed. A better one would be something like this: a neo-Nazi uses internet hate sites to declare support for Wal-Mart, calls Wal-Mart “The White People’s Store,” and posts Wal-Mart ads right below posts decrying the “n—-r situation.”
You can bet your ass Wal-Mart would back away from that guy in a heartbeat.
God Bless the circle jerks!
If it werent for a good circle jerk LoST would be dead already.
What is going on with LST? Really, I am not an RP nutjob. I do support the job he has done as congressman, and am not supporting his pres bid. I’m sure I could find scum of the earth thugs that support just about any candidate, even our golden boy in Austin.
Hamous I certainly hope you are labeling me a Nazi. Please clarify.
There are mice are coming out of the woodwork.
Last week I heard a mouse and I finally set some traps, checking a discretely placed trap I said to myself “got one, it’s still alive, look at that tail! SNAKE!
Man, getting rid of a mouse is easy, the snake slithered off under a cupboard door, and I’m really not sure of a “safe” way to get it.
I’ve sealed (taped) the door but I know that is only temporary, that snake is still in my house.
#45 And yet, here you are again. The consummate middle man
AZ - where on earth did you get that idea?
Dr. Paul has addressed the issue, and a while back, when he wrote that racism is collectivism.
Why not bring up Jews for Ron Paul? Because it would have been also ridiculed.
Most of what goes at LST, and it has been going on for a long time, with regards to Dr. Paul has been just to ridicule. Very few exceptions.
This is why I only visit every so often.
There is nothing on this issue except smear and best ignored but with the ADL getting involved, it will probably get national attention, Dr. Paul will have a good opportunity to address the issue once and for all on the national stage. Hopefully, Jews for Ron Paul will volunteer to be part of a press conference on the issue. No doubt that the same tired ole Paul’s detractors will find something to smear the JFRP.
And I will not smear the RP detractors on their new alliance with the ADL.
Matt, You analogy is flawed. WalMart pulled the shirt because of the numbers of people that would recognize it as a symbol of racism.
Such a relationship does not exist with Ron Paul, despite the nefarious and persistent efforts of the RonPaulTimes to create it.
Wow, Hamous, you can’t refute the substance of my arguments so you claim I must be a Nazi. That is intellectually lazy and I trust the good readers of LST to recognize that.
When you can’t win with facts, label your opponent an “enemy” and appeal to base emotions rather than reason. This is the classic “populist” tactic that has been used to great effect by scoundrels and enemies of freedom throughout the ages.
Hamous, 43
yes or no
Of course not AZ. Once again, why would you even think that?
Thirty-one comments before wanda gag invoked (sort of) Godwin’s Law.
Argumentum ad Nazium, good people on the Right. Or if you prefer, reductio ad Hitlerum.
This thread (unlike RP in my opinion) is climbing real fast however some of the post’s on here have brought up some bad gut wrenching feelings.
Ciao all. On to better things
Hamous you made a broad statement in #43, I asked for clarity before commenting on it, you have supplied the clarity so there is nothing for me to comment on since it was not about me. See clarity works when applied with honesty. I did not accuse you, I asked first.
thank you!
I’d point out that you guys just published a swastika, then called Paul a racist.
tasteless… and real tacky
FACT: A man and organization that espouses Nazi beliefs support Ron Paul
FACT: We have never accused Ron Paul of being a Nazi or espousing their beliefs
FACT: We believe it important to know Ron Paul’s stance on those groups.
FACT We are simply requesting that Ron Paul return the money and distance himself from those people.
FACT: Ron Paul is not “our enemy”
FACT: As part of the electorate of the United States of America we have the right to ask our candidates for the highest office in the land to explain or clarify their positions on any given subject.
FACT: Exposing truth is not smearing.
Ain’t living in a democratic republic grand?
Think I’ll join you, Dov. White supremacists or their apologists - I’m not seeing much difference today.
Please refer to Dr. Paul, in his own words, as reposted in comment #7, which appeared in the issues section of his web site a few days ago. His position, along with the rainbow coalition of employees working on his campaign seems to effectively answer these questions.
As for my “enemy” comment, I was referring specifically to comment #43 which suggests that those of us attacking the intellectual validity of this article and the subsequent comments are “Nazi’s,” not the motives of LST, which I read and generally enjoy, even when I disagree.
And last time I checked, even nazi’s could vote in this country. If you don’t like it, move to Germany. It’s illegal to even mention Nazi’s there. Is that what you want?
What if the white people want their candidate to distance from blacks? What if Jews want theirs to distance from Catholics? Where do you draw the line? I saw you don’t.
If a racists likes you, that’s another vote. If a grandma likes you, that’s another vote. Should the grandma not vote for you because a racist did too?
If we eliminated candidates based on their donations from racists, we wouldn’t have any candidates.
Every campaign has gotten donations from racists… are we going to start taking personality tests before we can donate?
Racists like beer and bread and sex… I aint given up a one, and I’m not saying sorry. And I’m not a racist.
If you think Paul should give the money back, then a LOT of you should give your money back to your bosses cause I bet you work with a racist.
Squawk
Is it more than Don Black - have there been more donations?
Really? Where did we call him a racist?
The very first reference to “racist” or “racism” was by one of your fellow travelers.
#43, Hamous
that is correct, however just like the governors race, and the 92 and 96 presidential races, those that are blind to the truth will sit here and refuse to discuss that which is important about the person running, like the fact that RP wants to go back to early 20th century isolationism, or that he has said nothing about what he would do with regards to immigration reform,(at least that I can find).
I mean the man sits there and talks about his pocket constitution, but I have yet to see any discussion about how or what he wants to do to get back to the constitution. I hear blah, blah, blah….
To take a line from Shakespear…
Sorry.. one more thing. Fox News and the Wallstreet Journal have the same master, if you’re curious. I’d hardly call them credible anymore. And this is coming from someone who used to respect the Journal.
Ok, more things… #65, he said we get back to the Constitution by….um…. following it.
Bweldon, you aren’t looking very hard…
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform/
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
* Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
* Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
* No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
* No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
* End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
* Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
You don’t think there are a large number of people who equate white supremacy with racism? Wal-Mart rightly backed away when it accidentally got mixed up with a racist symbol.
Ron Paul refuses to back away when he accidentally got mixed up with racist activists. And his disciples actively defend his inaction.
FACT: The Ron Paul campaign has confirmed unequivocally that this support is unwanted and unsolicited: “Until three days ago, neither Dr. Paul nor anyone else in the campaign had any idea who Don Black was or is. We’ve never met or communicated with him. We did not solicit his support.” (http://lonestartimes.com/2007/10/30/rpb2)
FACT: Several prominent LST contributers have directly insinuated as much. One has even directly equated defense of Paul against this smear with closeted support for neo-nazism.
FACT: Ron Paul’s campaign already gave an unequivocal answer to that question: “[W]hat you’ve described is certainly repugnant, and completely anathema to everything Dr. Paul stands for.” Despite that clear condemnation, several here on LST have continued asking the same question in plain bad faith as if it had never been answered.
FACT: Ron Paul already *has* distanced himself from those people. While he has not publicly stated what he intends to do (or perhaps has already done) with the donation, this will come out in due time when the next disclosure filing is made. Until then it is disingenuous to insinuate his support for the donation.
FACT: Ron Paul, a minor presidential candidate polling at about 5%, has been the subject of more critical articles on LST in the last 3 months than any other presidential candidate, including those polling at 4 or 5 times his level. And yes, that even includes BigJolly’s weekly roundup on Fred Thompson
That you do, but you also have the obligation to recieve their answers fairly when those answers are made in good faith. Several around here have not done so.
Wait, I’m confused. Does the Good Doctor valiantly defend the Constitution as it’s written, or does he want to change it? Because ending birthright citizenship would require a constitutional amendment.
He refused to back away cause he’s not a panda bear.
And “Really? Where did we call him a racist?”
You published a swastika in his logo like it’s a joke. What more do you need to do in order to accuse him of being a racist/nazi.
The way I see it though, you published the swastika, not him. DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF! HURRY!
67.
So Fox and the WSJ are not credible? But the Dishonorable Doktor Ron Paul is?
That’s rich.
Of course, I guess it takes that kind of delusion to ignore the reality of Herr Paul.
Oh, and by the way - regarding the claim that “FACT: We have never accused Ron Paul of being a Nazi or espousing their beliefs”…
In case you haven’t noticed there’s a logo at the top of this page with a giant red swastika implanted in the middle of Ron Paul’s name.
If you want to call him a nazi or whatever, fine. I’ll point out that it’s a cheap political smear, but if that’s the position you are going to take so be it. But at least be man enough to own up to what you are doing. Don’t call him a nazi (or plaster a swastika across his name) and then lie about it in plain view of the very same thread.
Re: comment #72 - Dr. Paul does support the Constitution, which includes supporting the means created by the Constitution to amend the Constitution. His issue is that politicians ignore their obligation to follow the amendment process and just pass unconstitutional laws instead.
75,
You need glasses. There’s no swastika in Ron Paul’s name. Why did you lie about that?
lame
76.
Guess what? Just bedcause The Dishonorable Dr. Paul says it’s unconstitutional don’t make it so. That job belong to the Supreme Court - that is, if you follow the Constitution.
Mountain out of a molehill. I personally think you sank to a pretty low low using that swastika logo with Paul’s name. No one, including you, thinks he has any such tendencies. So what you did was despicable.
My own suspicion about Paul is that he doesn’t care about much that is unrelated to his 100-years-out-of-date economic philosophy. He probably doesn’t want to focus on anything else — you have to admit, he’s pretty nerdy.
the oath of office, of which EVERY elected official takes is to “swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, from all enemies foreign and domestic.” The supreme court is just one third of the process.
I wonder if I’m not just on a Internet flamers heaven cause you guys seem kinda irrational.
77 - There’s no need to be anal, Rick, even though it is apparently what you do. The swastika is splattered across a modified Ron Paul logo, and the intent is plainly to suggest his sympathy for nazism.
I suspect you would object if somebody took…say…the letterhead for your law firm and modified it to where a giant swastika appeared along side your name. I also suspect you would take issue when the very same people who made the fake logo adamantly denied ever calling you a “nazi” and purported in plain bad faith that they were only inquiring into whether or not you associate with other nazis.
Matt I think that anchor babies and birthright citizenship was mandated by the the courts in the 60’s… Cause as far as I know that there is nothing in the constitution that talks about immigration or citizenship in those levels.
71.
You admit Paul has not personlly, with his own pipsqueak voice, addressed this issue?
If he has, please post it here.
If he hasn’t, well, enough said.
Why the hell would he want to post anything here?
82,
I don’t take money from Nazis. The same can’t be said about the Paul campaign, can it?
sorry though you meant paul should post
84 - Why should Ron Paul have to respond to you, Rick? Would you respond to an obviously hostile blog like the Daily Kos if they called you up in the middle of a presidential campaign and demanded that you personally answer a loaded set of questions designed to insinuate you support Adolph Hitler?
81.
Cite me a case holding that the President (or a goofy congressman) gets to decide what laws are constitutional. I will post a whole piece about it.
I wonder if there’s a libel or slander suit for Dr. Paul against your website.
#86 - Question Rick - have you ever done criminal defense work? Have you ever represented a client you know to have been in the wrong?
85 and 88
Pay attention. I never said he should respond to me. I’ve always said he should personally address it, not hide behind some milquetoast spokesman.
Please show me where he personally has addressed it - in any forum.
#69, like I said I have not done extensive research on Mr. Paul because his foreign policy views eliminate him from my list of potential candidates…
That being said, I have over the past few months failed to see a SINGLE supporter of RP try to discuss the merits of his campaign. All I hear is bitching and moaning about how he is being disrespected, how he is being ignored, how he is being mocked, how he is being accused of being a Nazi, yadda yadda yadda….
If you support him then tell me WHY… What is is specifically about his platform and campaign points that make you feel so strongly about this man being the one who should be our next president. Until then you and all of your fellow RP supporters are nothing more than voices raging against the hurricane as it comes ashore…..
91.
Nice try, Phillibuster, but NO.
94 - So just to be clear, you are saying that throughout your entire 20 or 30-something year legal career, you have never represented a single client, be they criminal or civil, who was in the wrong in some capacity or another?
“Cite me a case holding that the President (or a goofy congressman) gets to decide what laws are constitutional. I will post a whole piece about it.”
Ok, how about a whole bunch…. not specific.
President Regular Vetoes Pocket Vetoes Total Vetoes Vetoes Overridden
George Washington 2 2
John Adams 0
Thomas Jefferson 0
James Madison 5 2 7
James Monroe 1 1
John Q. Adams 0
Andrew Jackson 5 7 12
Martin Van Buren 1 1
William Harrison 0
John Tyler 6 4 10 1
James Polk 2 1 3
Zachary Taylor 0
Millard Fillmore 0
Franklin Pierce 9 9 5
James Buchanan 4 3 7
Abraham Lincoln 2 5 7
Andrew Johnson 21 8 29 15
Ulysses Grant 45 48 93 4
Rutherford Hayes 12 1 13 1
James Garfield 0
Chester Arthur 4 8 12 1
Grover Cleveland 304 110 414 2
Benjamin Harrison 19 25 44 1
Grover Cleveland 42 128 170 5
William McKinley 6 36 42
Theodore Roosevelt 42 40 82 1
William Taft 30 9 39 1
Woodrow Wilson 33 11 44 6
Warren Harding 5 1 6
Calvin Coolidge 20 30 50 4
Herbert Hoover 21 16 37 3
Franklin Roosevelt 372 263 635 9
Harry Turman 180 70 250 12
Dwight Eisenhower 73 108 181 2
John Kennedy 12 9 21
Lyndon Johnson 16 14 30
Richard Nixon 26 17 43 7
Gerald Ford 48 18 66 12
Jimmy Carter 13 18 31 2
Ronald Reagan 39 39 78 9
George H.W. Bush 29 15 44 1
William Clinton 36 1 37 2
George W. Bush 2 2
Amendment 14:
Of course, we may quibble over the definition of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” but current law and practice are pretty clear.
#96, what does that prove? a persident does not veto something because it is unconstitutional. In many cases the veto is based upon other issues, including money and or other political plans….
Rhys, vetoes do not have to do with the constitutionality of laws.
A law, by its definition, is something that has already been enacted. It has either been signed by the president, or the president’s veto has been overturned by Congress.
So no, a president does not get to determine the constitutionality of laws. In deciding whether or not to veto, he may consider the potential constitutionality of bills.
#93, this is what I like about him. There’s a LOT ore I like about him too, especially his fiscal policy. I can provide a LOT of econ material about him and his Austrian Econ, if you’d like. For now, read this:
Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives.
So called free trade deals and world governmental organizations like the International Criminal Court (ICC), NAFTA, GATT, WTO, and CAFTA are a threat to our independence as a nation.
The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies, the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them.
We must stop special interests from violating property rights and literally driving families from their homes, farms and ranches.
The biggest threat to your privacy is the government. We must drastically limit the ability of government to collect and store data regarding citizens’ personal matters.
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked.
Americans are justifiably concerned over the government’s escalating intervention into their freedom to choose what they eat and how they take care of their health.
It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails.
Our nation’s promise to its seniors, once considered a sacred trust, has become little more than a tool for politicians to scare retirees while robbing them of their promised benefits. Today, the Social Security system is broke and broken.
The federal government does not own our children. Yet we act as it if does by letting it decide when, how, and what our children will learn. We have turned their futures over to lobbyists and bureaucrats.
Ha! Some libertarian you are.
“he may consider the potential constitutionality of bills.”
And not, “he may”. More like, “he shall”. We don’t have that now. We have “he probably wont”
99 -
This is a shadier area than you may think. There are many instances in U.S. history where presidents have refused to “execute” laws they believed to be unconstitutional, and have even gotten away with it.
and im republican!
But not RON PAUL. The RPAcolytes are fond of pointing out that “comments” made by Ron Paul in his news letter in earlier were written by “ghost writers”.
“Insinuated” does not equal accusing. You are now insinuating that we are “acussing” Ron Paul a Nazi.
See my reply above.
Thank you for making my point.
Yep Ron Paul is a minor candidate. As you and I both know, in politics, that can quickly change.
And again I refer to my “ghost writer” reply above. I would prefer to hear the response from the man himself. Call me a skeptic, but I do not care for “handlers”.
I noticed, I also acknowledge the purpose of the “banner”.
#97 ok but it was the courts that said that anyone born on US Soil is a citizen regardless of their parents immigration status… That is where the anchor babies portion of this insanity comes from…
but here is a good article on that issue…
http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/anchorbaby_FAIR.html
and the best line in the article is this.
““Insinuated” does not equal accusing. You are now insinuating that we are “acussing” Ron Paul a Nazi.”
Again, reference your swastika (which I now know how to spell, thanks to you).
#100,
Up until this point he makes sense.. These 2 however I feel he is way off base…
On the first, he sounds just like the liberal democrats, and it smacks of isolationism. We need to be willing and able to protect our interests anywhere in the world and RP wants to do just the opposite.
On the second one, the constitution calls for provided for a common defence, and if those in the military and other areas who are responsible for providing for that defense need access to protect us, then we should be able to give it to them.
A perfect example, closing the border is going to require enormous amounts of personal information being captured, including data, and eventually biometric information. If that data just sits around and is not available for security agencies to use to filter out those that need to be watched from those that don’t then the borders might as well be wide open…
Oh and one more thing, he does not spell out how he wants to fix things… again that is the sign of a typical politician…
Didja consider the distinct probabality the banner is in reference to the Nazi’s support of Ron Paul and not the other way around?
Didn’t think so.
An authorized spokesman speaking directly on his behalf is more than sufficient for a minor blog story. Why not just admit it? The only reason you want it from Paul himself is to embarass him and give that story more legs than it has.
1. Sure it does, when the insinuation is made with malicious intent and intended to lead the reader to the same conclusion as a direct accusation.
2. I’m not merely insinuating that LST is trying to smear Ron Paul with the tag of nazism - I’m saying it out right.
That it can, but you still failed to address my point: you’ve devoted more attention to attacking a minor candidate than any of the other major candidates, and done so several times over. Regardless of what the political winds say about that candidate, it remains a fact that your hit pieces on Paul are disproportionate in number compared to anybody else. You previously insisted that LST has no agenda against Paul. My point is that the disproportionate negative attention you give him plainly illustrates otherwise.
Nor do I, but in a presidential campaign that is sadly an unreasonable expectation to have these days. And that is nothing new or exclusive to Ron Paul - it’s a biproduct of the 24 hour news cycle, and something I suspect you would give little thought to if it was coming from one of the other campaigns you support.
So far everyone’s noticed the swastika, but no one has paid attention to the title of the post. I thought that one was more clever.
Except that the banner is a modified version of a logo that is associated with the campaign, not stormfront. Furthermore, that you have to even point out that possibility is illustrative of the fact that it is not made obvious by the banner itself.
#11, you mean this
Cute…
“Didja consider the distinct probabality the banner is in reference to the Nazi’s support of Ron Paul and not the other way around? ”
That’s stupid. Really, it is. Sorry for being rude, but… are you seriously trying to sell me on that? It doesn’t say the Nazi Revolution, it says the Ron Paul something with a swastika in it, that this website put there.
#112, Phil,
Maybe if he and is campaign and supporters were not calling it a revolution, reactions could well be different. Think about it Revolution can be twisted to server a lot of sick and perverted purposes.
And as you point out that logo is from his campaign. Does he really want a voter revolution in the actual or literal sense….
108, I used to be with you on that. But for real, our government sucks and I’d rather live in Mexico than tell the government what my DNA sequence looks like.
And protecting our interests include our economy I would think, more so than our interest in ‘not looking like duech bags for leaving Iraq’. My share, and yours, of our debt, is $170,000. That’s if we paid today, but we all know the debt is climbing fast and the war is mostly why.
115 - The word “revolution” is commonplace in politics, and often applied in a good way. We generally think of the Revolutionary War as a good thing, do we not?
It’s not like he’s calling this thing the “Ron Paul Coup d’etat.” I can see no ill intent on his part for simply using the word “revolution” though.
sorry… the revolution logo isn’t from his campaign. We supports use it, but you wont see it officially associated with Ron Paul.
108, another thing is, I used the summaries. If you go on his website, they list entire articles to every graph i listed. Also, there’s a website called the Ron Paul Library which has a huge collection of his writing and views from over the years. There’s also a few books he’s written, if you’d like even more specifics.
Where do any of racist people that support RP say they do so because of his stance on race?
I mean could it be they like his stance on the constitution? This is a sad sad run for LST.
Yall do realize that many people come to this site because Dan Patrick had such an influence on its birth / creation.
Dan is also the person that points out how media says its not bias but based on the slant stories are given and the number of stories done, we are able to see major media bias.
Now his own creation has a bunch of people writing bias stories about RP. I’m sure he will be proud to have his name associated with this site / activity.
You guys need to come up with something more. Show me where these guys are supporting RP based on his racial stance. Not just a slanted story where the implication is made by the author of the story and not the evidence presented.
Rhys, how are you calculating that? It looks like you’ve overstated the per capita debt by more than 400 percent.
#115,
Sorry but you are wrong about the war being the reason we are so far in debt as a nation. We were in debt back when Reagan was president, and have not had a truly balanced budget that does not play fast and easy with the numbers in nearly 50 years, that is all because of things like the reallocation of social security funds in the 60’s and 70’s to help pay for other social programs.
This is not a war debt, it is a debt because the 536 people (535 in congress and president)that we have been sending to DC for the past 40+ years do not know how to live within the means of this country. Plain and simple. if you look at the % of national debt to personal income over the past 40-50 years you will see that as individual property increased, so did government spending. They are like the pig at the feed trough, they will keep eating till the farmer cuts them off. We keep sending people up there willing to promise us farm subsidies, free medical care, money for mothers who would rather be pregnant all the time than find work, NASA, Amtrack, Chrysler bailout, the Bailout of NYC in the 70’s, The Savings & Loan crisis…. Bankruptcy courts. Do I really need to go on and continue to list things that have lead to the $170K in debt that the government has racked up in my name, in the attempt to be everything for everybody…
/rant off
#115, you may want to look at this site for your debt numbers..
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
I guess this got lost in the tet-a-tet
So are we still talking about one check from a person named Don Black
Its that it?
re: “revolution”
…and Guy Fawkes Day was just coincidence. Right. How do you guys control your vertigo with all this spin?
You guys are sorta right, but the unfunded projected debt is $50 trillion, not $9 trillion. Also, the M3 from the Fed hasn’t been published since 2003, and they’ve recalculated the CPI to look like we have low inflation. Really, we have terrible inflation and rising debt to asain nations. Oh yeah… and $5 trillion in private debt.
The increase in debt is (memory) $7 trillion (funded) over the last 6 years.
Well, I created the banner, so perhaps I should provide “artist’s intent” clarification.
I do not believe Ron Paul is a Nazi.
I DO believe that Ron Paul has not adequately addressed the issue of white supremacist support for his campaign.
He’s had plenty of time and opportunity, and failed to do so. Why, I don’t know. My leading theory is “campaign staff who’ve suddenly found themselves in WAY over their heads.”
Regardless, for an increasing number of people, what was once a curiosity (”Look at all them Nazis that like Ron Paul!”) has developed into a concern (”Why in the world doesn’t he just return the contribution and offer a personally-delivered, hard-core rebuke?”), which may soon fester into a mainstream media headache (Russert: “Congressman Paul, last week the ADL sent you a letter…”).
I know you RP supporters don’t want to admit it, but this “tiny” issue is starting to taint your candidate and his cause. And it will continue to taint him until he addresses to the satisfaction of non-Ron Paul supporters.
Ron Paul is not a Nazi, but Nazis are staining his Revolution.
If you don’t like that swastika there, remove it.
My target isn’t, and never has been Ron Paul.
My fire is aimed at Jew-haters.
Jew-hatred is kept impotent when large groups of people marginalize it through social ostracism.
The America I love, and the America I want to live in, considers Jew-haters freaks with no legitimate role to play in the public sphere, and treats them as such.
When a presidential campaign knowingly accepts and retains support from Jew-haters, and treats the support of Jew-haters as no more morally problematic than that which they receive from anyone else, it is sending a different message.
By not returning Don Black’s contribution, the Ron Paul campaign is creating “facts on the ground” that say “Jew-hatred does not in and of itself disqualify someone from being heard and participating in the public sphere.”
Frankly, I can’t comprehend why more RP supporters- truly committed to individual liberty– aren’t profoundly offended that their candidate considers their support to be interchangeable with that of a neo-Nazi. But that’s your call.
As for me, I know who my enemies are.
And when they slither out from under a rock, I beat them bloody senseless, and without apology.
#120,
As far as I know they have never said anything about why these people sent him money. All that has been asked was why will he not return the funds of a know Nazi/skinhead and publicly denounce their support. It is the RP supporters that are all offended and mad about the request. But at the same time comments and suggestions that Rudy get rid of his pedophile priest friend are largely ignored by the same people because they are not willing to see anything other than the “Lone star Times Slander” of their leader and Savior….
“Those that follow someone blindly will eventually fall off the cliff because they will not see that their leader has changed direction.”
Numbers, shmumbers…
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/?hpid=news-col-blog
Broc - You and I probably have very different views on a lot of issues, but I’ve believed from day 1 that this whole “Ron Paul is a Nazi” run on LST is a new low for the site.
I say that while maintaining that, even though I disagree with the intent of story itself, there was at least a fair and responsible way to present it if they had chosen to do so. The Don Black donation thing could have easily been posed as an honest and serious inquiry. LST could have dispassionately analyzed the political implications of the donation and asked for a response from the Paul campaign in good faith, hoping that he would give a short and simple repudiation.
I gather that a few here tried to do that at times, but the driving purpose of this story from the outset has been one of bad faith. There are people here who are out to play “gotcha!” politics with Paul, to spring the Don Black story on him with maximum sensationalistic hit power, and to screen this entire story through a heavily tinted filter of nazi-laden imagery and shameless innuendo.
Since this is the blogosphere, these sorts of things are not unexpected. And even though I expected better of LST, I don’t hold it against them from indulging in a sensationalistic blog smear campaign. I do hold it against them that many here have lied about it though; many here have indulged in a blatant smear campaign while simultaneously pretending to be dispassionate observers who only want honest answers from Paul.
It’s gotten so bad that the few who I genuinely believe to have wanted an honest answer from Paul are so thoroughly overshadowed by the schlock peddlers here playing the gotcha game that their simple association with this story is becoming nearly indistinguishable from the lesser motives of its disingenuous acolytes.
It’s one thing to ask tough questions from a political campaign. It’s something entirely different to use tough questions as a disguise for an intentional and patently disingenuous smear campaign. It pains me to say it, but LST is doing the latter right now.
They send him money because they think the jews run the Fed and WTO and all that, and Ron Paul doesn’t like the Fed and the WTO and all that.
simple.
drop it. Your morons for even writing about this. If I find a less than savory supporter of someone else, will you shut up?
Broc– Why don’t you call Dan on Monday and ask him what he’d do if a leading neo-Nazi sent him a $500 check?
Hint: You wouldn’t be able to confuse his response with the one we’ve seen so far from the Ron Paul campaign.
129, that econ report was written by a political journalist. It wasn’t accurate. He didn’t account for any variable adjustments over time.
not to keep multi posting, but another thing it doesn’t account for is unfunded expenditures and these tens of billions in war funding supplementals that seem to pop up every couple months.
last multi… will any nazi’s out there send me $500? actualy, make it in Euros.
Phil, your devotion to RP is admirable, but sad.
I shall point you to the first 2 postings about this issue.
First on 10/11/07
Then
10/23/2007
See this started out as a simple question of why are these people supporting this candidate, it evolved into the fact that the leader of one of this organization had donated to his campaign, and finally has come to the current point where all that is being asked is why is the silence so deafening from Mr. Paul him self both on the return of the money as well as his stance towards these peoples support. All the time you and other supporters of his are screaming at those who are asking the questions, and making accusations of your own towards those who want answers.
The smear campaign is in your minds because your candidate does not have the stones to stand up and denounce those people. And if we don’t call him out now, what will happen if he does become a player in the long term? Do you think that Rudy , or Mitt or Hillary will play nice and ignore a fact like that?
#128
With the pictures they used on the title its clear why they think he was given the money. Its dishonest to say “We don’t think RP is a Nazi.” While the title of the article has his name with a swastika in the word revolution.
#131,
At Stormfront
These folks don’t just happen to support Ron Paul for reasons unrelated to their white-supremacy ideas. Many of them actively promote Ron Paul’s candidacy as part of a white-supremacist agenda.
#137, Brock see #136 for my response to this…
#132
David
Did RPs campaign spokesman tell LST that, RP does NOT support racism, and he was looking into the financial information?
That is what I read on LST. I know Dan would give the money back. Do you know that RP will not?
The point I am making is still valid, LST does more pieces like this on RP then any other candidate and they are always slanted in the negative for RP. I would call that a bias. Not unless for some reason LST thinks they will get national recognition for breaking this story.
But we know thats now going to happen because the story has already been picked up and no credit was given to LST.
So what is LST’s motive to continue to write these stories about RP?
There is so much more dirt and information on the other front runners, it is astonishing LST would spend so much time on someone that does not have a chance.
Broc– if you don’t like the swastika in the Ron Paul Revolution, remove it.
Again:
They send him money because they think the jews run the Fed and WTO and all that, and Ron Paul doesn’t like the Fed and the WTO and all that.
simple.
Same reason I like him, only I like jews too.
Broc– we will beat the drum regarding ANY white supremacist contributions being made to ANY candidate.
We also have a soft-spot for stories that beat up on Islamic radicals.
David - There are two problems with your rationale in this statement:
First, the only reason this story even exists is the fact that it is being pushed by people with a plainly transparent agenda against Ron Paul. I do not believe that you share in this agenda, but it is a plain and irrefutable fact that the majority of the other people behind this thing are gunning for Paul and hoping to see him humiliated by it on a national stage.
With this knowledge in mind, the Paul campaign is legitimately skeptical of any demand for a “response” from the sources behind this story. You and I may not like their hesitance to respond or the result of percieved silence that it brings, but it’s a political reality we have to deal with given that those demanding it are plainly doing so in bad faith.
To use an analogy, imagine if a flea-ridden hippie blogger from MoveOn.org called the White House press line and started berating Bush about his air national guard record. Do you honestly think the White House press office would sit down with him and try to patiently talk him through the issues he raised? Do you honestly think they would drop everything they are doing to take his calls, respond to his document requests, and rebut his conspiracy theories point by point? You know as well as I do that they’d think the guy’s a kook and blow him off.
Well, be it fair or not, to the Ron Paul campaign when LST calls about this story *you* are the equivalent of that flea-ridden Moveon.org hippie ranting about air national guard conspiracy theories. They percieve you that way because some on LST used this story from the very outset to play “gotcha!” politics; to perpetrate a disingenous smear. And given the way that some people around here have behaved when handling this story and the one good faith effort Paul’s people made to respond to it, part of me cannot blame them at all for feeling that way.
Second, your standard of an answer - to the “satisfaction of non-Ron Paul supporters” - is an unattainable burden in this case because the behavior of the majority of the people pushing this story illustrates that they will not be satisfied under any circumstance short of Ron Paul dropping out of the race. For all the talk about the rabid Ron Paul kooks out there on the internet, there are also large contingents of equally rabid Ron Paul haters who have jumped all over this story for no other reason than that they hope to use it to humiliate and discredit him.
And that is not a understatement, relegated only to a few disgruntled bloggers. In the last few days the anti-Paul crowd has reached a level of outright lunacy equal to the worst that they allege of the pro-Paul crowd. The other day Glen Beck openly implied Ron Paul was taking “terrorist money” because - get this - his $4 million donation haul used Guy Fawkes Day as its theme.
Not to be surpassed, an outright lunatic over at AEI followed up Beck the other day by demanding that Paul return all of the “tainted” Guy Fawkes cash.
http://www.aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.27105/pub_detail.asp
These types of shrill, sensationalist, agenda-driven smears are well beyond the realm of civil political discussion, and well beyond the realm of what *any* presidential campaign can be reasonably expected to engage or respond to out of simple courtesy. To get courtesy you have to extend it first, and despite the genuine efforts of some of you here, it is plainly lacking from the sum of LST’s involvement in this story, as with the majority of the blogosphere that has followed.
LST wont get credit for this. First, whomever credits them in their story will look stupid when they link to an article with a swastika in the revolution logo. Second, they’ll look stupid for admiting they read this blog. (yes, I know what it says about me!)
#139
LOL you just showed me a list of ramblings that racist make about anyone they support. Where is the evidence that RP is a racist and they support him because of it.
I really want to know. If he is, then by all means he should resign.
Maybe I was not clear earlier. I apologize. I want evidence that shows RP making a racist comment and them using it as a reason to support him.
How about this, show me a quote from RP, not an intern, but made by RP and then show me where these groups use THAT QUOTE as reason for support.
Maybe thats the reason their site does not have his quotes listed and then their comments of support along side.
#146 rhys– as long as we’re clear!
hey we publish this crap… what does that say about us
That you have poor taste and no journalistic ethics…
136 -
In case you haven’t noticed, bweldon, there’s a giant swastika embedded in the middle of a widely known Ron Paul logo at the top of this page. No honest person could look at that and say with a straight face that it is anything other than a smear.
I have acknowledged from the very first instance this story came up that there are some people here who genuinely wanted a straight answer from Paul. That they did is not in dispute. What I am pointing out though is that these reasonable and tempered requests have long since succumbed to shrill, sensationalist smears by people who have no other interest in this story than to publicly humiliate Ron Paul. Whether it was intended that way or not, the patently offensive swastika logo at the top of this page conveys precisely that impression and affirms the malice behind this story.
If LST wants to go all out against Ron Paul and smear him daily in a sensationalistic innuendo-laden hit piece, fine. It won’t reflect well on them, but at least we’ll know where they stand. But hedging between the pretended position of “honest reporter” and encircling Paul’s name in swastikas is beyond the pale. If you’re gonna smear the guy, smear him. If you only want honest answers, then let him answer and accept it in good faith. But don’t crap in a bowl and call it ice cream by doing the former under the cover afforded by the latter.
Who’s claiming Ron Paul is a racist? Lone Star Times isn’t.
We’re just saying he takes dirty Nazi money, and that his refusal to get rid of that money is out of step with American sensibilities.
What makes it dirty nazi money? That guy (whom what’s his name again?) probably has a job in the US ecconomy.
#151
Read #150 that is a good response to you.
Ron Paul takes Nazi money, and we criticize him for it. And we have poor taste?
Uh, okay.
Well, let’s see…for one thing,
IT CAME FROM A DIRTY NAZI.
Yes, you do. He takes money from a citizen of the United States of America, and you associate him with Nazis. Do you associate Burger King with Nazi’s? I bet that guy eats there.
There’s no defence, no excuse. What’s more, I haven’t seen a since LST person even type “swastika”. You all keep using the word “banner”. Which would be fine, but you’re just trying to not have to make a pro-me argument utilizing the word “swastika”. Yet, you’re more than willing to attribute Dr. Paul with this imagery.
I wonder…. Lone Star Times, how many people in the Lone Star State are racists, cause I met a LOT when I was there. What do you have to say for yourself, allowing racists to live and breathe and participate in society, near you!
And how many racist subscribers would you think you have? I’m certain there must be at least one. Should all your subscribers cancel because you accept the membership of racists?
So, the nazi is dirty, but what about his money?
And therein lies the answer to everyone asking why LoneStarTimes.com is doing this.
Now, if this Ron Paul fiasco had never happened, would Mr. Benzion & Company be doing the same thing to Giuliani? That’s the $64,000 question.
What is more important to LST? The $500 donation to Ron Paul from a Nazi group, or a pedophile priest on staff and donating to Giuliani?
If they are equally appalling, then treat them equally.
So, are they equally appalling or not? And have you contacted Giuliani’s campaign?
Or are they not equally appalling? Is Jew-hating somehow worse than sexually abusing a child?
No, but I would if the guy kept saying things like “Burger King is the last chance the white race has for just 10% of its survival.”
Swastika swastika swastika.
Where did you hold these meetings?
I, managing editor of this fine publication, can tell you with absolute, 100 percent, beyond-a-hint-of-a-shadow-of-a-doubt certainty that we have zero racist subscribers.
#158 - To its credit, LST has hit Giuliani twice now over his child molester associations.
That said, it also took extensive discussion of those associations on several threads as well as criticism of LST for ignoring the Giuliani story before it was finally posted.
The coverage of Giuliani’s pedophile problems is indisputably there, and LST is indisputably doing the right thing by hitting him on it. But it is also a legitimate observation to state that the enthusiasm behind LST’s pursuit of the Giuliani story is substantially less than that directed at Paul.
Look LST has already made its point it does not like RP’s acceptance of money from a Nazi group.
Seems most of us agree with this.
RP has had a spokesperson come here and make it clear RP does not support these groups and last I read was looking into the money issues.
So what does LST want?
It clearly isn’t a response from the RP campaign, because they have already received it.
When articles are written with LST STAFF as the author it is bad for the whole site. At least BigJ writes pieces on other candidates.
Why doesn’t the real author of this article have the guts to sign his work? Why, because they know its a hit piece and as much as they believe in it, they still don’t want their name tied to it.
What is a new reader of LST to conclude the STAFF thinks when the site has pictures of RP’s head on a shrimp and a swastika in the title of an article written on him?
OH wait I know:
We’re just saying he takes dirty Nazi money, and that his refusal to get rid of that money is out of step with American sensibilities.
Yeah right….
You can’t tell me you have no racist subscribers. That’s an absurd conjecture. It’s absurd to even assume you could know a thing, with such statistical improbability, for sure.
And I was in that little town between Dallas and Ft. Worth for a couple weeks. No meetings, just lots of racist Good-Ole-Boys.
rhys– you find me a single racist subscriber to LST, and I’ll refund their subscription in FULL.
“Alex…………..we’ll take
‘record breaking & endless amount of blog posts professing that a $500 racist contribution is no big deal while endlessly and repeatedly posting about it - proving unquestionably that it IS a big deal’………..for $500………….”
You have to pay for this? LOL don’t tell cause mine was free!
Besides, you offered me a negative proposal. I can’t find a racist on this site, cause I don’t have your database records.
Oh, and by the way, what exactly has this guy said about Ron Paul? Do you know, or do you just know he gave some money and he’s racist. And, I’m sorry that I missed your article, but how do you know he gave the money? Are you friends of his?
rhys– click on the little thingies up at the top of this post– I’ll save you the trouble of scrolling up
http://lonestartimes.com/2007/10/25/rpb1/
This is a personal issue for Mr. Benzion because he is Jewish. It’s understandable and if I were Jewish I would probably feel the same way.
That being said, let’s assume that sexually abusing children is as bad as Jew-hating. Why isn’t LST and Mr. Benzion in particular as vehement when it comes to the Giuliani situation? Phil_M is correct, even though there is a post today about Giuliani, why isn’t LST contacting his campaign? Why no banner of Giuliani with a priest and a young boy?
Unless of course Mr. Benzion is using LST to satisfy his own personal agenda.
And that’s fine if he is, as I said it’s completely understandable, just be honest about it and not have your staff advocating conflicting positions.
#161 -
Bingo.
And I’ll that Ron Paul’s campaign would be completely justified at this point in blowing off any future inquiry from LST on just about anything, considering the way they were treated after making that response in good faith.
A perfectly fair question. If “humorous” swastika banners are what y’all do around here, then how about a Giuliani ‘08 logo with the NAMBLA symbol pasted in the middle of it?
Sure I can. I know for sure.
I’ll back up Benzion. If you can identify any racist subscribers to Lone Star Times, we’ll refund their subscriptions at the full newsstand price, in their choice of Federal Reserve Notes or real money.
Cool, thanks. Now I know this is dumb… you guys really chased this one! They used a public banner on their website, so you dug through high and hell water to post a story with no by-line. Credible? No. I know this because I’ve actually been printed on front pages of newspapers, with a by-line. However, “staff writer” is ok sometimes, for the high school basketball game… but no by-line on an article of a magnitude that you’re claiming it as, reveals a “no story” to all serious journalists.
“it is traditional in political campaigns for candidates to return contributions from “toxic” donors once sufficient public scrutiny and outcry has been generated.”
So you’re mad because he’s bucking tradition. Also, your public scrutiny on your wee lil blog hardly fulfils your own requirements for the tradition, which require “sufficient public scrutiny and outcry.” Other than your obvious, and un-journalist piece, there is no out cry or public scrutiny. Everyone knows about it. Ron Paul supports are concerned… but so far, it’s been a non starter anywhere but this overzealous blog.
Giuliani’s been popped on his friend, and will continue to be so; LST contributors are free to write what they wish. It’s a volunteer effort, so I can’t force people to cover certain stories.
If Giuliani wants to put loyalty to his friend above political expediency, he’s welcome to it. Same with Paul and the bigots latching on to his cause.
Neither one of them should whine when people smack them around for it.
Part of my “personal agenda” is certainly anti-Jew-hater, but I’ll also add that as a liberty-lover who (in recent years) has been within the Republican camp, I feel like I have a special obligation (and personal interest in) stopping kooks and haters from polluting causes I hold dear.
I expect and ask my left-leaning and progressive friends to police their own side of the aisle, ostracizing the bigots that creep up over there… and I hold them morally responsible for when they fail to do so.
It would be rather hypocritical of me not to hold myself and my own political “community” to the same standard.
If the RP campaign and its supporters want to wait until this is a “big deal” before taking action, fine by me.
I think that’s dumb.
This could be a dead issue by now.
Heck, he could have GAINED stature among folks not already on the bandwagon if it had been handled right.
Now, even if they eventually do the right thing, it will look like they only did so because of the pressure.
Like I said– in over their heads.
It is a dead issue… look around. Yes, we’re beating it, but it’s still a dead horse.
And you don’t love liberty. You love your liberty, but not the racists. Your website is so free of hate mongering, that it never publishes swastika with the purpose of making people hate someone else.
rhys– with all due respect, you don’t understand Liberty.
I haven’t deprived racists of a single ounce of their liberty.
I’ve simply exercised my own in response to how they’ve exercised theirs.
Extremism in response to bigotry is no vice.
I was wondering how long before the scholarly Phil M would take credit for forcing us into running the Giuliani/Pedophile priest stories. Can his ego possibly be inflated any further?
And to whomever it was whining about the “LST Staff” author line on this story: Hell, I’ll be proud to claim it! I suspect most of the other LST Staff will be too. If you think you can shame me after you’ve been here for over a month making excuses for Nazis you are completely delusional. As David says, If you don’t like that swastika there, remove it.
173 -
David - there’s a fundamental problem with your premise. It assumes that if Paul’s campaign gave the response you desire it would satisfy his critics on this issue. I believe there is substantial evidence that this would not be the case at all.
Instead, they’d simply shift the spin and make increasingly unreasonable demands for further “repudiations” by Paul. The line “Ron Paul takes nazi cash” would morph into “Why are nazis giving to Ron Paul’s campaign?” or, “If Don Black gave him money how many other nazis are there that we don’t know about?” No matter what Ron Paul does in this case, there will always be somebody out there who hates him and who will never be satisfied with his answer if it is anything short of dropping out of the race.
Thank you.
Now what about child sexual abusers? No special obligation or personal interest there? How about some of your staff? No special obligation or personal interest?
That makes 2 of you.
You are mistaking constitutional liberty (lack of government interference) with libertinism (being devoid of self-restraint).
I’ll give you some examples. It is legal under the First Amendment for someone to do any of the following:
-Scream curses at Girl Scouts
-Mock the disabled in public
-Speak in favor of racial supremacy
-Lie to one’s spouse
Those things are all legal. They’re also all despicable and suppressed by decent people using private-sector legal means, including ostracism and public disapproval.
Many Ron Paul supporters purport to be libertarians, but they use laws as their moral standards. In their eyes, if something is legal, then it’s perfectly acceptable in all circumstances — Nazism is legal, thus there’s nothing wrong with it.
In doing so, these so-called libertarians subordinate their own will to that of the state.
David nailed it: you don’t understand liberty.
177
I desire no credit, Hamous, but it is fair to point out three things:
1. I was the first person on LST to even raise the issue of Giuliani’s relationship with Placa.
2. I found the donations Placa made to Giuliani and have posted them several times here over the last couple of weeks, as well as sharing them with multiple LST contributers.
3. Same as #2 for the Suffolk County Grand Jury report, which I pulled a couple weeks ago, copied to several, and posted in several places here.
Phil– agreed up to a point. That’s why you’ve got to look inside, decide what’s right, make a good faith effort to respond, hope that fair minded observers will accept your response and then move on and ignore the never-to-be-satisfied.
If I was on the campaign staff, I would have calculated these questions differently than they have, and urged a different approach.
We’ll see who’s right and who’s wrong.
Just ask my boss and clients; I’m not always right.
David - It’s admittedly hard to calculate, but in Paul’s defense there is ample evidence that the never-to-be-satisfied types are numerous and extend into the higher ups of the opposition.
I mentioned earlier an article over at AEI right now by one of their big-wigs about Ron Paul. He is calling - with a straight face - for Paul to return the $4 million haul from last week because the Guy Fawkes Day theme of the fundraising drive makes it “terrorist” money.
No matter how one looks at it that is not a reasonable demand. It’s unreasonable to the point of absurdity. And yet it’s not coming from a kook on a blog somewhere - it’s coming from a high ranking figure at AEI. That’s the type and level of never-to-be-satisfieds that the Paul campain has to deal with on a daily basis. With that in mind I can’t blame them one bit for their reluctance to respond to stories like these.
Where did Phil_M make excuses for Nazis?
“Many Ron Paul supporters purport to be libertarians, but they use laws as their moral standards.”
That’s because we don’t claim to have the monopoly on morality. Therefor, we go for rule of law. Our subjective opinions wont be so great to run society by if, for instance, the stormfront people every win an election. (extreme, but for purpose, follow me). Now, they see you as repugnant… and they do, you know this. However, they now have the power to boss you around and tell you who can and cant like you. How does it feel? How does that benefit your liberty?
Sure, you can do and say whatever you want. But, if you want to be a journalist, you MUST have integrity, honesty, reasonably and a sense of departing yourself from the story. (Ok, that’s the ideal but we’ll leave Fox out of this for now) Right now, all your doing is using the guise of journalism to bitch about someone you don’t like accepting money from a person you also don’t like.
It’s lame, it’s phony, and it’s scrap pot news. It’s the journalistic equivalent to George Bush. Use your position to attack and discredit your foes, reasonably or not, if they don’t do what you say.
It’s not journalism, what you’re doing. It’s pontificating on a soap box.
Besides… I don’t see stormfron asking Ron Paul to distance himself from Jews…. who’s the better person? I’d say them cause you both hate, but they’re honest.
185 - I didn’t, never have, and never will. That hasn’t stopped Hamous from repeating that same false insinuation twice now in as many days though.
As I said before the first story on this issue was published on LST, Dr. Paul could have eliminated this entire issue a long time ago by following Ronald Reagan’s lead when the KKK announced they were supporting him in 1980:
Had he done that there would not have been another post on the matter written by me, all speculation from Phil aside.
181
3 out of 4 of those are most likely not legal
181
And mess with the girl scouts at your own peril
Phil– I agree that the AEI post is foolish and unreasonable. Guys sounds a little too wound-up, mistaking a pop-culture inspired reference for genuine support for armed-insurrection.
Probably thought glam-rock bands back in the ’80s were REALLY worshiping Satan.
that said, it would be easier to dismiss the post as absurd if RP’s campaign didn’t have $500 from a neo-Nazi sitting it its bank account.
“If you don’t like the swastika there, remove it.”™
#188 -
Interesting, particularly how closely it parallels with this:
191 - It’s entirely possible that they don’t have it any more though. We’ll know for sure in the next FEC disclosure, and we shouldn’t jump to judge them otherwise without that knowledge as some here have done.
“Just a letter to thank you very much for your letter to the editor of the Los Angeles Times. It was kind and generous of you to do this, and I am most grateful.”
OMG, he was MOST grateful. Grateful’s gotta be worth at least dinner, right?
#192 Phil_M
That should have been the final nail in the coffin, but alas I doubt it.
Well done sir.
So, now that the good guys won (jk lol) can I ask something? Will you take down the swastika yet? I mean, my grandfather fought the Nazi’s and recieved a purple heart, and I think he’d be real angry to see how frivolously you assign people that title.
“If you don’t like the swastika there, remove it.”™
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/contact/
ass. Ron Paul didn’t publish the iconic Nazi symbol proudly on his website. You did. You linked me to the wrong contact page.
Making excuses:
Its not the fact that Ron Paul refuses to disavow nazi support that is the problem, its that WE are asking him to.
Ron Paul accepting nazi money is not so bad because LST won’t ask Rudy about his pedophile priest buddy (Phil uses this one on a daily basis).
LST is being mean to Ron Paul so why should he address the issue of taking nazi money?
And even if he did answer why he takes nazi money the omnipotent Phil knows we wouldn’t be satisfied.
Another one of those, “Why would he talk to you big meanies” excuses.
And finally, equating Ronald Reagan’s public press conference where he personally disavowed KKK support with Jesse Benton speaking in a phone conversation with Matt.
And that’s just this thread’s excuses!
#195 - As I said, many of the people pushing this story will never be satisfied with Paul’s answer unless it is to withdraw from the race.
It simply illustrates the height of their unreasonable demeanor when they adamantly profess that Reagan’s response to the Klan was acceptible and insist they would have recieved Paul’s similarly, only to turn around and do the opposite when Paul gives a virtually identical response.
There is very little genuine interest behind this story in repudiating nazis. It’s becoming all about shaming and humiliating Ron Paul, no matter what he does or how he responds to it.
There is a valid parallel on the banner. The “Ron Paul for President” banner is still proudly displayed on Stormfront and Dr. Paul has still not asked for it to be removed.
WE didn’t keep a financial contribution from a neo-Nazi after it was brought to our attention. Ron Paul did.
It’s not our Revolution. It’s his.
Right now, Nazi money is part of it.
Right now, white supremacists haven’t gotten the message that they aren’t welcome.
As long as the money remains and they don’t feel ostracized, the swastika remains.
“If you don’t like the swastika there, remove it.”™
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/contact/
199 And aren’t you a fine Fisker.
Show me where Dr. Paul gave a “virtually identical response” and we’ll be in agreement.
LST was supposed to be the online paper that would replace / compete with the Chronicle.
I didnt realize when they were selling the idea on the radio, it meant that it was going to be just as biased and illogical.
Nice job guys!!!
It’s his revolution… you added the swastika. Even stormfront didnt do that. say what you want, but you’re just like glenn beck…and even he didn’t use a swastika.
I guess the 6 million dead jews don’t care anymore though… after all, they’re dead. And they’d be proud to know they died so you can later use the symbol of their death as a political smear tactic.
possibly accepting $500 from a nazi is not as bad as what you’re doing. At least he’s honest about it.
the nazi’s are honest about it.
you’re not.
And again, if Regan did so great, why did he say this?
“Just a letter to thank you very much for your letter to the editor of the Los Angeles Times. It was kind and generous of you to do this, and I am most grateful.”
Coming from RP Apologetics the “biased and illogical” medal is rather ironic, but I’ll accept it with humility and reverence
You might consider following in his footsteps.
rhys, that didn’t make sense to me the first time and I still don’t know what you’re asking.
No Hamous. It is the way you are asking him to do it.
If you had asked in good faith, chances are you would have gotten a good faith answer. But you didn’t do that. You went for the smear job from the outset and continued that smear even after Paul’s spokesman responded with an answer that is almost identical to what you deem “acceptible” when it came from Reagan.
And that would be a straw man, Hamous. Rudy’s pedophile friend does not negate the evil of the nazi guy, nor has it ever been suggested to do so. Rather, I have only stated that your reluctance to devote a similar energy in pursuit of a comparable (and indeed worse) association on the Giuliani campaign attests to a glaring double standard with which you operate. That point remains unchallenged here.
For starters, he already addressed it. And he addressed it in terms that directly parallel what you deemed an acceptable response from Reagan on the Klan endorsement, further illustrating your adherence to a double standard, hamous. Of course my point was never to say that Paul should avoid addressing it - my point was to explain why Paul would be completely justified in ignoring any subsequent inquiry from Lone Star Times in light of the way that people like you treated him after he responded the last time.
Benton spoke as an authorized agent on behalf of Paul’s campaign. Furthermore, the analogy between the press conference and the phone call is ridiculous considering that not one single news outlet had picked up on the Black donation, whereas multiple had picked up on the Klan thing for Reagan.
The point is and always has been this: the *content* of Reagan’s response and Paul’s response was virtually identical. You stated that Reagan’s response was acceptible to you, yet you call Paul’s response inadequate. And that, once again, illustrates that you operate with a double standard.
for you to remove your proud swastika from a good man’s name.
Already did. #192.
Oh, its THE WAY we are asking him! Should we say pretty please? More excuses, more spin.
Show you? He gave it to you!
#213 No you didn’t. Dr. Paul did not publicly disavow nazi support. A staff member talked to Matt in a private phone conversation. The same staff member that said in South Carolina they welcomed all donations, even from Nazis.
We didn’t bring neo-Nazism and white supremacy into the Ron Paul campaign. The neo-Nazis and white supremacists did. Why won’t Paul and his decent supporters kick them out?
If you don’t like that swastika, do your part to remove it.
now i get it… they didn’t read his response cause that’s not what this is about.
if this ever gets carried by a real reporter, they’ll probably say the same thing they said to YOU.
But they probably wont have to, cause the only place “reporting” has also filed a response.
Now what about child sexual abusers? No special obligation or personal interest there? How about some of your staff? No special obligation or personal interest?
The silence is deafening.
All you Ron Paul supporters are ardent in your support. You argue, post, link, defend to almost 200 posts. May I suggest, you put your energy into contacting Ron Paul, to ask him to repudiate, personally this donation, and return the MONEY. ! You can be as angry as you want at LST, but your anger is misplaced. It’s not LST’s fault this won’t go away, but Ron Pauls.
If the conversation was intended for publication as an official campaign response to the inquiry, then by its very definition it was not “private.” If it was a “private” conversation we would not know about it and Benton would have told him it was “off the record.”
#208
Funny thing is Hamous, I would stand up for anyone that gets attacked unfairly on this site or any other blogs I read. To have an unbalanced number of articles on one candidate with an always negative slant is not what LST was supposed to be.
This site is a little more important to me, because I thought from conception is was going to be different. It was propped up by Dan Patrick someone I respect.
A placewhere good articles written by locals with similar beliefs. Not a blog where a few people decide they don’t like a person and harp on them repeatedly in the name of “LST STAFF.”
I like Duncan Hunter myself if you want to know? He is more inline with me on national defense then RP.
But it does not surprise me that you would jump to conclusions when it comes to RP…..
No, it’s LST’s fault it wont go away cause no one else cares. I only care cause I’m bored! lol
I mean, you got the Campaign Manager of a front runner to respond to your crappy ass blog… what more can you ask for? Ron Paul aint gonna come begging to you odd form of anti-nazi nazis.
214 -
Yes, Hamous. It is. They way you are “asking” it is no different than the way Cindy Sheehan “asked” for a meeting with George W. Bush when she was living in the roadside ditch in front of his ranch.
If you “ask” intentionally loaded questions and behave like an asshole when you “ask” them, people ignore you. They are completely justified when they do so too.
214 -
Yes, Hamous. It is. They way you are “asking” it is no different than the way Cindy Sheehan “asked” for a meeting with George W. Bush when she was living in the roadside ditch in front of his ranch.
If you “ask” intentionally loaded questions and behave like a jerk when you “ask” them, people ignore you. They are completely justified when they do so too.
It wasn’t a front runner, it was Ron Paul.
Thank you AW.
And to all you RP guys, from what I understand AW might even be willing to support RP if not for your continued moral relativism.
#226 umm after reading up to 196 posts, I have changed my mind once more!! A woman’s perogative.
#224 - You’re just flat-out wrong on this one Phil. I refer you back to my original post on this:
There was nothing “loaded” and I wasn’t acting like a “jerk”. The only jerks have been you guys coming here and posting thousands of comments demanding we stop picking on poor Dr. Paul.
If the campaign manager was not acceptable to LST STAFF, they should have never posted his response.
Because it seems to me LST is giving a campaign managers response as much credit as they give a stranger on the blog…..
Why do you guys expect another response from RP’s campaign when you show so little respect for the time and answers you were given by the campaign manager?
220 - fwiw I ran this issue down my list of contacts with the Paul campaign several weeks ago. I offered them my advice, admittedly unsolicited, and we had generally amicable conversations about it.
Some of the things they have done in response so far - i.e. the statement condemning Black - are also consistent with what I had hoped they would do. But that’s only half of the story. While Paul’s people have deliberated on the donation and offered, so far, what I consider to be a reasonable response (Benton’s statement condemning Black), the instigators of this story have been over here and elsewhere foaming at the mouth on an almost daily basis trying to figure out a way to make it stick and to heighten the smear. Some energy may be legitimately devoted to a response to that as well.
Who’s AW? Would he help us at all, cause at least the nazi’s give money.
How come it’s not PERFECTLY REASONABLE for LST to demand that Giuliani disavow donations from a child molester?
LST may be small potatoes in the minds of Ron Paul supporters, but these national radio voices and newspapers are not. This goes away as soon as it is addressed by DR.Paul. I recommend calling Dr.Paul’s office, to encourage a quick death of this troubling situation.
#229 -
That’s all fine except that when he gave you the statement you wanted and answered the questions you asked in a polite and thorough manner, it still wasn’t enough for you.
Ever since, Hamous, you’ve been foaming at the mouth about Ron Paul and the nazis, thus substantiating my original speculation that your first round of questions was not made in good faith. Cloaking an agenda of malice in politeness seldom ever works, Hamous, because eventually that agenda starts to slip through. In your case you pretended to be polite and reasonable at the beginning, but every step of the way you’ve become more unreasonable.
Paul’s response will never satisfy you if you keep moving the bar and upping the hostility every time he makes one.
You see that big silver star at the top of the page?
Click it.
Some folks just like to argue!!
#233 stuscatol - have you even looked at the other stories on LST today? Jeez!
I will write a response for Dr. Paul. ” It has come to may attention, that a national Nazi group, Storm front, has donated to my campaign, and has my picture on their web site. This is not a donation I support or am proud of. I am returning this money immediately. I am in no way associated with Nazi groups or their followers. Thank you.” Dr. Paul, say it loud and say it clear.
HE hasn’t answered, Phil. You can keep saying that but it doesn’t make it come true. More excuses.
#238
I don’t see where anyone from LST has contacted Giuliani’s campaign. Has someone done that?
Are you satisfied with Giuliani’s answer?
I wonder if I can get a cult deprogrammer certificate by March? I think I could make some bank! Too bad it would all be worthless fiat currency.
ok, now that I know who you are AW… there wont be any voices in the radio. there wont be articles. this “story” is old, and no one cares. everyone’s already heard it… even the editors at the papers and the station managers at the radio. if they wanted it, they’d take it.
maybe they want to hold on to it… but honestly? no. that’s not how they work. Once the AP gets it, USA Today has to, the NYT… so you see, if anyone thought this deserved column inches, they’d already be measured, printed, read and discussed.
the thing is, only your staff really cares cause they’re in so deep. DELETED, you’ve even dedicated yourselves to the swastika now. i guess that’s cool, but don’t hate on someone for taking money when you advertise for free.
you guys are just losing your readers, i’d guess. especially since so many people online like RP.
I know you are new here, but we keep it civil and we do not curse. Thank you. LST Moderator
#241 No, I’m not and have repeatedly said so.
#240 - Benton was authorized to speak directly on his behalf. That makes Benton’s answer the official answer from Ron Paul himself.
#243
So what are you going to do about it?
“#241 No, I’m not and have repeatedly said so.”
But did you ask him?
Look, guys, you can’t have it both ways: If Benton speaking for Paul is acceptable and authoritative, then quotes from Paul’s speech/ghost writers from speeches he delivered personally or writings that he gave his stamp of approval to cannot be dismissed as “not really” RP’s opinions, but just that of a ghostwriter.
#244 that isn’t good enough for a national figure wanting to be president. How simple is it, for him to make a statement? Rudy did. Rudy didn’t let an underling speak for him. You want this gone, tell him to speak.
I would ask myself this question. If he refused to speak on this, why? He wants so badly to be president….. or does he?
#247
Another straw man argument. Sheesh.
I’ve been dead for so long, and beat so much, I’m starting to smell like Michelle Malkin’s farts.
“LST may be small potatoes in the minds of Ron Paul supporters, but these national radio voices and newspapers are not.”
There wont be any. If you spin it, they wont come. They don’t care. They saw this a week ago. The editors, the reports, the news chiefs… they don’t care. They know that if they run it, they’ll be made to look foolish.
WASHINGTON POST: UNSAVORY MAN GIVES $500 TO PAUL NAZI PAUL KEEPS MONEY
come on… that’ll never make it to print or broadcast cause it’s dumb. Maybe Rush or Hannity, but they’ll just look dumb too. No one credible wants this story. Only these volunteer journalists are interested cause they don’t have any real scoops.
NAZI => National Socialists
Can any of you truly can say that Dr. Paul is a socialist anything?
So, why would neo-nazis give money to Dr. Paul? Certainly it has nothing to do with economics or govenment control of the economy.
Other than the issue at hand, is there evidence of Dr. Paul being a racist? Is there a pattern that people that have had direct associations with Dr. Paul can point to?
New low for many here.
#247 - You’ve set up a false dilemma there. A campaign press secretary is directly in the business of speaking for his boss. When the press talks to him they know this to be the case and they know his word is his boss’s word. If he missteps it gets repudiated within a couple hours at most.
The newsletter was written by a staffer in a very different scenario, and Paul explicitly repudiated it.
#252 It’s a stupid gamble Ron Paul and his aides are taking with something that could be quelled so easily.
Hamous….why is the Ron Paul issue so important to you that you are compelled to CONTACT and demand from his campaign he make a personal statement and retunr the money, but you’re not compelled to do the same about the Giuliani issue?
Are the 2 issues not equal to you? David Benzion has also failed to answer that question.
#253 Phil_M
Try not to let the facts get in the way please.
#248 - Rudy ONLY made a statement when a national news reporter for ABC News came knocking at his campaign’s door. Even worse, Rudy gave the wrong answer and defended the guy.
I’ve yet to see a single newspaper even pick up on this story, much less a national network. Just a small-time blog. The fact that you would even consider the two analagous is absurd.
There’s like 5 of you who care… what do you want, a conference call? damn.
Like Phil said, any real media outlet would have taken Benton’s statement to the bank. But, you guys really don’t know how to be a true media outlet.
My point of this again is that, no one else cares but you 5 people. Maybe 20… I’ll give you that… but as soon as this story hit last week, no one cared. There will be no delayed reaction. No one cares what some jerk off nazi spends his money on.
Super Duper Tsunami Tuesday is 79 days away and counting.
Hallelujah.
254 - not a false dilemma or straw man at all. If Paul didn’t agree with what the staffer wrote it should have never seen the light of day. I’ll be danged if I let a staffer speak for me under any circumstances. Maybe I wouldn’t make a very good presidential candidate.
You guys who defend Ron Paul in this circumstance, ask yourself this: If RP were in Rudy’s position with Placa and Rudy were the guy who had the scumbag donors to deal with, what would your position be? Would you defend RP over Placa? I think maybe some of you would.
Remember Bernstein and Woodward. They had a hunch, got a tip, talked to deep water and broke a huge scandal that rocked the country. LST found a disturbing picture of DR.Paul being supported on Storm Front’s web site. LST contacted the Paul campaign and were ignored. They did their own digging and came up with dirt. Good journalist do that. LST gave Ron Paul’s campaign days to reply, by either email or phone. Nothing.
I posted the first story on this and asked the question in that story. I did not contact RP and ask the question.
I did not post the first story but the person who did also asked the question of Rudy in that post. I do not know if he called the Giuliani campaign.
But you guys are still falling into the red herring trap. Because we haven’t asked the Giuliani camp questions does not negate the validity of the questions asked of Dr. Paul.
American Woman… they worked for the Washington Post. You volunteer for this blog.
#264 - The “validity” of your questions to Paul is negated by the way in which you ask them. There is a difference between a question and a loaded question.
When you first asked questions of Paul his campaign answered in good faith. Your response ever since then has revealed that those original questions were loaded, and that no answer Paul could have given would have been acceptable to you.
#259 rhys
No, but a lot of people care that a child molester is advising and donating to Giuliani.
You would think the same folks on RP’s case would be just as upset.
262 - You’re simply being ridiculous now. It’s nice to pretend that people don’t make mistakes, but the simple fact is that they happen. In the newsletter case something slipped through that even Paul’s critics at Texas Monthly admitted was a highly uncharacteristic statement to have come from Paul. Paul then did the right thing and repudiated the statement.
That has no bearing on what Paul’s current press secretary says, jim. The press secretary speaks on behalf of the campaign and his word should be taken as such unless it is retracted by the campaign. Benton’s statement to LST has not been retracted to my knowledge. It is therefore an accurate representation of the Paul camp’s response.
Seeing as the defense of pedophiles is out of character for Paul, I would expect him to get rid of Placa in that situation.
So Hamous, as part of the staff, do you think that LST should contact the Giuliani campaign because child molestation is equal to Jew-hating?
Would you personally contact them on behalf of LST if no one else will, because you feel strongly enough about child molestation (particularly by a priest)?
So do supermarket tabloids.
Wasn’t one of those questions, will the money be returned?
#243 I have staff now?
#268 - I expect that if I have a concern about where a campaign is getting its money from and it isn’t addressed to my satisfaction, I probably won’t be voting for the guy. Same holds true for Rudy now that I know who has been donating to him, thanks to this website. Not that I would have voted for either of them anyway, but here’s my “ridiculous” point:
If a presidential candidate is handed an opportunity on a silver platter to do the right thing, and they forego that opportunity, they take a HUGE hit in my book. Period.
Call that a smear if you want.
272 - Yes, and Benton deferred that he didn’t have an answer on that yet. We’ll easily find out what their answer was in short order when it is recorded on the FEC report.
And wasn’t there an answer? You just didn’t like it.
269 - what would you do if the response from the Paul camp was “we live in America, and I won’t suppress free speech by denying anybody’s right to support whatever political candidate they want to, despite what I think about the man personally”?
#274 How about Benton contacting LST, who opened this question and giving them an answer? Like I said, this is not good campaign sense. We have to wait to see if it’s on his FEC report!! One quick call to LST with the announcement money being returned would get a banner ( I would bet)
273 -
Your premise is flawed because Ron Paul was not handed a silver platter by LST in this case. He was handed a silver platter laced chained to a bear trap, laced in poison, and holding a stack of thinly disguised rotten eggs.
277 AW
“#274 How about Benton contacting LST, who opened this question and giving them an answer”
cause LST is a non player
I suspect he would have been more inclined to do so had his original set of answers been recieved in good faith. They were not though, and several contributers here immediately pounced all over them in a plain display of bad faith. If that’s the way he gets treated around here why should he go out of his way to volunteer a followup?
“cause LST is a non player”
…not unlike Ron Paul
It’s simple. Give the answers, end the questions. Ron Paul’s silence is deafening.
#282
Do you equate child molestation by a priest with Jew-hating?
If you do, then why are you not demanding LST contact Giuliani’s campaign?
AW is not LST staff.
“Blog-wench” perhaps, but not “staff”
I can’t take it any more– yes, stuscatol, we’ve contacted the Giuliani campaign, and will publish their response when we get it (or their lack of one if appropriate).
#278 - that’s not how I see it at all, but even if I give you that, let’s pretend it didn’t ever appear on LST. Now it is in the Wall Street Journal, no? I don’t care what you think of the WSJ or its ownership, that’s an opportunity on a silver platter to do the right thing. Let’s just see how he performs.
Although, he could have made this go away a long time ago, and he hasn’t, so he already blew it in my book. You see, Paul’s campaign has known about this for weeks and has done nothing to firmly repudiate support from a fringe racist group. Sorry, that’s not good enough. If you’re OK with it, that’s fine, but I am not.
I wanna get on this child molesting thing too, because RP never said anything racist, but Rudy dresses up like a girl and plays with child molestinig priests. This is funky. that whole dumb nazi thing is lame, but this rudy thing.. the real journalists actually care about this one.
#285
Great. Please credit me and Phil_M for helping you to equate child molestation and Jew-hating finally.
Thanks.
Sorry. Contact was made long before you chimed in. LST Moderator
#286
I know the Wall Street Journal, and LST is no Wall Street Journal
This is true. We’re much tougher on immigration.
#289 - I don’t care if LST is smaller than the WSJ. Paul’s campaign knew that this would eventually become a “real” issue. Tell me that they didn’t. They had the chance to do something definitive before it did, and they chose not to. Now they probably will, and I will have no respect for them.
Character is what you do when you believe that nobody is looking…
Child molestation and Jew-hating are not equal.
I’d much rather have creeps hate me for being a Jew than go out and molest a child.
Character is not backing down to a blog just cause they don’t understand your free speach and open market views.
#292
Then why the crusade against Ron Paul instead of Giuliani?
It would seem to be a more noble fight since Giuliani has a legitimate shot at becoming President and we know Ron Paul does not.
#291
Please. You place way too much importance on yourself and this blog.
And I ask you, why are you not as upset (if not more so) about child molesters not only supporting Giuliani but advising him?
Dude, free speech is great. Respecting free speech does not mean that you are required to accept support from a scumbag.
Sorry, RP is wrong on this one, and so are you. This isn’t about free speech.
287
“I wanna get on this child molesting thing too…”
Man. I’ve missed a lot here! I’m going back to work!
#295 - I am just a guy who won’t vote for Ron Paul. I am as important as my one vote. In other words, pretty damn important. About as important as you or anybody else here is.
But this isn’t about my importance or this blog’s. This is about whether or not I believe that Ron Paul is doing the right thing. I believe he isn’t. If you believe he is, then fine. I disagree and I do indeed question his character in this matter.
#298
Nice dodge.
Why Ron Paul and not Giuliani? Why is a child molester advising a very possible President not as important an issue to you, where you don’t feel compelled enough to be as vocal?
295 - Oh, and by the way, you assume incorrectly. Guiliani is completely, no-doubt-about-it indefensibly wrong for continuing to associate with Placa in his campaign or allowing Placa any place in his campaign. I question his character far more broadly than I do Paul’s.
Happy?
299 - see 300.
Oh, by the way - 300…
Pusillanimous foreign policy is not what we need at this time.
Looking into too many particular female body parts is how he has formed his war strategy.
He’s a coward, IMHO!
Are we required to bash all candidates equally? Was that some part of McCain-Feingold-Thompson that I missed? Does not doing so somehow negate otherwise valid criticisms of the other candidates? What freaking dreamworld are you jokers living in??? Is there an “Outrage Scale” so I’ll know when it’s acceptable for me to ask a presidential candidate not to associate with bloody Nazis?
This is a wicked, twisted road. Laters.
#300
Then why are you not asking (demanding) LST to go after Giuliani with the same fervor, instead of wasting your time defending their position on Ron Paul? If child molestation is such a hot button issue for you.
#303
Nice dodge also. I just figured that child molestation might rank up there with Jew-hating. Heck, David Benzion even said they’re not equal, that child molestation is worse.
So why the crusade against Ron Paul instead of Giuliani?
You’re right, it’s a wicked, twisted road. Maybe you simply chose to go down the wrong one.
#295
First, it’s worth noting that while it certainly APPEARS that Placa is a child molester, that hasn’t been conclusively proven (I’m willing to believe it, even assume it, but we don’t know it for a fact).
Don Black is a confirmed neo-Nazi.
Secondly, Giuliani’s failing in this regard is about ONE individual, with whom he has a complicating and very personal relationship.
I still think he’s making a big mistake– both morally and politically– but it is about this one guy.
Now, if there were a COMMUNITY of child molesters out there advocating for Rudy, urging their fellow child molesters to support his campaign, etc., and if the head of NAMBLA sent Rudy a $500 check, you can be certain we’d be going bonkers.
But this is one guy, and there are other factors at play; and even then, we’re still hitting Giuliani on it, and like I said, I think he’s making a mistake.
Here’s the bottom line– other than Placa, child molesters everywhere know they will get their butts-kicked out the door if they openly try to associate with and advocate for the Giuliani campaign.
White supremacists don’t know that to be the case with Ron Paul.
All we want is for him to make it clear to them.
Surely you jest.
So now you’re saying the Benton statement wasn’t clear? Hmmm…
I thought it was that Ron Paul didn’t make the statement himself? Or that he should give the money back?
Which is it, all of the above? Just like Phil said, you keep moving the target to keep this going.
But thanks for pursuing the Giuliani thing (sincerely).
#304 - I never demanded that LST go after Paul! I just chimed in with my own opinions. You continue to assume incorrectly.
I won’t vote for Paul for the following reasons (in this rough order):
1. His foreign policy ideas suck.
2. He does not have the necessary leadership skills, IMO, to succeed in working across both sides of the aisle to shrink the government and return to a saner fiscal policy.
3. I am not sure that some of his specific monetary policy is sound.
4. I suspect that, based on some of his own words, that he is a bit of a nutball troofer conspiracy theorist.
5. He seems to take a more libertine instead of libertarian view towards his contributers.
I won’t vote for Guiliani for the following reasons (in this rough order):
1. He has liberal ideas re: too many things. i.e. gun control, abortion, etc.
2. I am not sure he’s very conservative on anything else - he may as well be a democrat.
3. I think his moral character is very unsound, particularly in his insistence to support what seems to be a child molester being prominently placed in his campaign.
3. He’s largely reviled by a large portion of the people he represented in NYC and that causes me pause.
The Benton Statement Wasn’t Clear.
Personally, I will consider the matter closed by a return of the money and a public statement by RP’s campaign that they will not knowingly accept money from racist fringe white nationalists.
306.
Don’t hold your breath, David. Between the first and second installation of yours and Francis’ smear campaign, I did 5 minutes of web searches and found that the issue had already been brought up, and officially responded to by the Ron Paul campaign. I posted that information here.
You scooped nobody. Your beating a dead horse. Any reasonable person could see through your dishonesty and find your real motives.
If I was the Ron Paul campaign, I’d ignore you too.
If you don’t like how the camp is handling the situation, I’d suggest that you vote for someone else, and stop pretending to matter.
I think it’s fair to say that Benton’s less than hard-core statement to our stupid, insignificant blog has NOT made it perfectly clear TO THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS that they disgust Ron Paul, that he loathes them, and that his campaign will have no tolerance for their involvement or support in any way, shape, form or manner.
#284 Wench is good….. I’m content.
Or go after Giuliani since he receives money and advice from a child-molesting priest.
I’ll support every effort LST makes on that front.
Bob, why do you think Ron Paul’s support among white supremacists exceeds his support among the electorate at large?
306 - David -
On Placa, the evidence is pretty damning on all counts. There are multiple victims, multiple corroborating witnesses to those victims, sworn statements, and a long paper trail of coverups he assisted in for other pedophiles. The only thing missing is a conviction, and the only reason it’s missing is the statute of limitations. Basically he’s guilty as sin and he got away with it.
Weighed in sum Giuliani’s “innocent until guilty” defense is neither believable nor even applicable to the case considering that Placa avoided trial solely on a technicality.
That is true, but in my mind that makes it all the more serious. It shows that a creepy pedophile is one of Rudy’s closest friends. I think it also supports a pattern of associations by Rudy with various unsavory characters.
I’m not so sure about that. I genuinely think that if there was money involved or some other personal relationship, Rudy would gladly look the other way on any other pedophile or criminal on his campaign. Placa is just one of his creepy relationships. Bernard Kerik is another, and we’ve only seen the tip of the iceburg in that sordid mess. We are literally looking at a repeat of the “Friends of Bill” phenomenon if Rudy is our nominee. No good will ever come of that.
#261 - Oh GAWDS I wish it was today!!!
Hey any of yall Paulinista’s call the guy up - tellim I’ll send him a crisp new Franklin right NOW if he’ll just go away……….
What, that worthless and unconstitutional fiat money? Why not send him Real Money?
315. Matt, I don’t understand.
As I’ve pointed out (way too many times) before, the sum total of contributions from supremacists wouldn’t be enough to make a down payment on a new double wide.
Unlike those who have devoted hours into researching a dead horse, I’ve never visited storn fromt.
I have however, interacted with thousands of Ron Paul supporters on the internet and in person.
Never met a NAZI. Not a single one. (I’ve never met a guy in a shark suit either
This horse was dead before you guys starting kicking it. You’ve looked silly from day one, and it ain’t gettin any better.
I think this does point to a man’s character. I guess Ron Paul doesn’t find it significant enough to address. He wants campaign money. In a time, when he says he stands for everything so different from his competition, how does this make him any different than, say, Hillary with the chinese money? Good journalists that you might want to be, why don’t ya’all Paul supporters try to dig up bad money on some of the other republicans? Is there any other Republican running who is supported by such a viral group?
319/318 Would ya mind waiting until December 16th to contribute?
#322 - SO SOLLY - MY OFFER STANDS AS IS………..(strictly as a courtesy)
I’m sorry; I should have been more precise.
The American voting public supports Ron Paul to the tune of 1-8 percent, depending on which poll you believe. Ron Paul is a marginal fringe candidate among the general electorate.
The American sieg-heiling, goose-stepping public supports Ron Paul to a significantly higher degree. It looks like he’s the white supremacist candidate of choice.
So I guess my question is: What is it about Ron Paul that simultaneously attracts racists and repels most everyone else?
What’s dec. 16th?
Katfish - Send him some of these.
It’s Ron Paul’s re-enactment of the Boston Tea Party.
He wants Americans to demonstrate their rejection of the Federal Reserve System by dumping their cash into Paul Harbor, so he can recycle it.
#327 - That’s right. How perfectly symbolic in a silly way.
Dec. 16 is their next big “money bomb” day.
Al Sharpton model
324. Well Matt, I guess you’re more familiar with NAZIs than I am, but I still don’t understand your question.
I can’t think of anything I’ve ever posted that would lead to such a conclusion. But then, it wouldn’t be the first time you’ve reached an illogical conclusion.
327. It’s not Ron Paul’s re-enactment of the Boston Tea Party. It’s being organized completely by his supporters.
Wrong again. The motivation for selecting that date is that the original tea party was a protest against protectionism.
Please Matt, do you homework. I know you’re more capable than this.
I’m certain it is coincidental, but December 16 is also the anniversary of the Porajmos - the day in 1942 when Himmler ordered the Romani people of Europe (Gypsies) to be deported to Auschwitz and Birkenau for extermination.
Arrgh! I should learn how to spell blockquote…
Wrong again. The motivation for selecting that date is that the original tea party was a protest against protectionism.
Please Matt, do you homework. I know you’re more capable than this.
Are y’all going to dress up as Mohawks?
334. No… SHARKSUITS!
Dec. 16, 1811 - The New Madrid earthquake caused the Mississippi River to flow backwards.
No one can look as good as Daniel Day Lewis as a Mohawk! The Ron Paul supporters are going to reinact the Boston Tea Party? And they think this gives them believability, how? I am smacking myself for actually considering Ron Paul for approximately 20 hours.
Ron Paul is unpopular among likely Republican primary votes. Ron Paul is popular among neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Why is that?
Honest to God, this isn’t a gotcha question, so don’t worry about trying to dodge. I really want to know what it is about Ron Paul that white supremacists embrace, but the broader electorate rejects.
Please Bob, find you sense of humor. It was a joke, dude!
The question is sincere, though, so I’ll repeat it in an easy-to-understand way:
Why do you think the broad American demographic rejects Ron Paul’s candidacy, while the narrow neo-Nazi demographic embraces it?
337. AW, to clarify, there is no organized effort to reenact the Boston Tea Party, although I’m sure that some of the cats will wear costumes to promote the event and gain publicity.
It’s just another money bomb. Nothing to worry about. Not at all…
338. Of the two of us, I’m the more frequent comic. I suspected you were joking, but was not sure.
Got something to back that up, or are you joking again?
Matt - It’s the whole “fighting the globalist power” thing like you quoted above.
#327 RP doesn’t want us to… he has nothing to do with TeaParty 07, as they call it. It’s all those %1-8 of the people doing it out of good will. Who knows, maybe we’ll get another unsolicited Internet donation from a racist for you to get all bunched about.
http://www.teaparty07.com
But for real, if you don’t vote for him over this, you’re dumb. If you whore yourself to one of those BigMoney Nukers because you don’t like someone who likes RP and you don’t like that he doesn’t care… too bad.
It just proves the South Park ‘wisdom’. 1 in 4 people are retarded.
I’m curious:
David Benzion, Matt Bramanti, Hamous, bweldon, american woman, have any of you ever used the “N” word?
And don’t discount the thinly-veiled derogatory references to “neo-cons”.
THIS IS WHY RACISTS LIKE RON PAUL SO DONT ASK AGAIN. IVE SAID IT NOW 3 TIMES
“They send him money because they think the jews run the Fed and WTO and all that, and Ron Paul doesn’t like the Fed and the WTO and all that.
simple.”
AW, the Tea Party is a fund raiser, not a reenactment.
#342 Actually, I used it today while quoting one of your savior’s staunchest fundraisers, “White Will”. I replaced the two “g”s with **. (see #33)
#345
Have you ever used it personally in a derogatory manner, or just jokingly with some friends?
Honestly (which I don’t expect).
342 - a strawman if I ever heard one. So what if they did at one point? That doesn’t mean that they are current racist white nationalists who believe that Ron Paul is the only one who can save at least 10% of white America…
A friend of mine who is still on the police dep’t said every time he stops a car with a Ron Paul sticker and he tells them to put their hands on the hood they say “It’s in the trunk”.
…and the people he thinks run them
#347
Did you see your name on that list?
Some questions do not merit a response.
#350 - Nope, I didn’t see my name on the list.. I ain’t responding for them, either. I am asking you to think about the ridiculousness of the point you’re trying to make.
stuscatol: No
…
#351 “You say you want a rHEIvoLution?”
Like this one! I guess I responded anyway
Oh, and by “no” I mean, “not ever, not once”
#346 - I don’t recall using it in any manner other than the way I did today, to draw attention to slimy racist scumbags. I suspect that at sometime in my very early childhood I may have repeated the word after hearing it in the schoolyard because, since the time I was old enough to remember anything at all I had the distinct feeling that if I said that word around my father I would have been slapped across the room. The only explanation I can come up with is that it must have happened at some point before my memories had formed. Not that its any of your freaking business, but since you asked…
Most of the hate world’s heavy hitters have come out in support of Ron Paul.
The American Nazi Party’s candidate for president is complaining that Ron Paul is sapping his support.
The most heavily-trafficked “white nationalist” site on the internet is plastered with pro-Paul messages and ads.
David Duke praises him.
As I said, Ron Paul is popular among the country’s leading racists. Polls show he is unpopular among likely Republican primary voters. In your opinion, what’s behind this dichotomy?
“A nation that once prided itself on a sense of rugged individualism has become uncomfortably obsessed with racial group identities.
The collectivist mindset is at the heart of racism.
Government as an institution is particularly ill-suited to combat bigotry. Bigotry at its essence is a problem of the heart, and we cannot change people’s hearts by passing more laws and regulations.
It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails. Government “benevolence” crowds out genuine goodwill by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility among us.
Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than as individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called “diversity” actually perpetuate racism.
The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence - not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.
In a free society, every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty. ”
-Ron Paul
I like this.
Did Richard Pryor ever use the ” n” word? That question is about as relevent as yours. Did you ever use any other derogatory word to describe a person of another race? This line of questioning is stupid.
Holy Moly this has turned out to be one hell of a circle jerk.
And we missed you, middle man
Stuscatol: What makes you think you can demand an answer from me? Whatever we say, you’re going to take it in bad faith! It’s a free country and I can say whatever I want! They’re suppressin’ my message!!!11
Also, no.
rhys– Yes, I’ve seen that quote.
Which is why it is so difficult to understand who Ron Paul won’t simply reject Don Black’s contribution and condemn Stormfront by name.
…even Hilda says she’s going to give her bad money back
It couldn’t be that the question Matt’s asking and the large “money bomb” are related, could it?
…stolen credit card money from Europe
…did that money come from the Labour Party or…
359. Matt, although your research and knowledge of NAZIs is respectable, your main point remains unsubstantiated:
It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails. Government “benevolence” crowds out genuine goodwill by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility among us.
Until you realize how much he believes this, you wont get it.
rhys, I said it early on, and nothing you’ve posted since has persuaded me to the contrary– you don’t have a very good understanding of “Liberty”
361. AW, Not sure about Richard Pryor, but back in the early days of SNL Chevy Chase and he did a skit that oddly, probably wouldn’t make it by contemporary censors.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wnu3XYxXJ3Q
And with that, I’m outta here. Have a good weekend ya’ll.
Bob, you can just say that you don’t want to answer the question, and we can leave it at that.
But I can water it down a bit. Here goes:
The American Nazi Party’s candidate has complained that Ron Paul is stealing his supporters. What is it about Ron Paul that American Nazis find appealing?
I see. Can I have yours since mine’s no good? I’ll feel more liberated.
I guess knowledge is lost on someone who has the swastika up there… the one who made it, right?
Good God. Lemme spell it out again for you.
Nazis hate Jews.
The Jewish conspiracy goes that the Jews control the Federal Reserve Bank, the World Trade Organization, the United Nations, the Media… all that big global stuff that Ron Paul hates.
He also, because he wants to end foreign aid, will include Iserial in that.
Also, they see him as taking down the Jewish evil empire. In reality, he’s just following the very prestigious Austrian Economics philosophy.
Bow to your Sensei! BOW TO YOUR SENSEI!!
Are there any other famous Austrians in the equation?
/sorry, couldn’t resist.
Learn your damned enemy. You should have to ask why they like him, you’re a journalist right. Go find out! I just gave you a great start!
#372 Richard Pryor had a top selling album. The title was ” That N’s crazy” Used to be a time when that word was used by musicians as a fond term where ” dude” is used now. We can ban all words with bad inference, but we can’t ban the mind set that refers to people in such a way. We cannot ban those who are white supremist, but we don’t have to accept their donations. Like I said, this is a dumb move on the Ron Paul campaign to not nip this immediately and have Ron Paul address the issue.
LOL I knew you’d do that hambone
370 - Unlike yourself, I regard Ron Paul as just another politician. I inherently don’t trust politicians, so I am not at all convinced that he will stick by his positions.
Something about a rather indefensible position on earmarks doesn’t make it any better…
Thank you, LST for persisting the subject of RP’s associations; it is easy to dismiss $500.00 and a few whackjobs until their thoughts and numbers are revealed.
373, Matt
Most RP supporters have no answers, just talking points - which usually have nothing to do with the question. It’s hilarious that they think they are some kind of intellectuals, but they all say the same thing! No original thinking there.
I figured I’d ask a Ron Paul supporter what his fellow Ron Paul supporters thought.
Nope.
His voting record is rock solid for 10 terms.
And on earmarks, he says if we’re going to bring the pork to Washington, he’s gonna bring it back home. He’s also pragmatic.
381 jimb
Ron Paul CAN’T stick by his positions. Congress would never go along with most of his addled ideas.
Except that the Dems would support his plans to shrink into isolationism and surrender to Islamofascists. He and Dennis Kucinich would be soulmates there.
Well, if you want to see it that way.
But he could also get the republicans on his side economically.
376 LOL
The new Gnosticism, presented to you by the true believers.
Voting against everything is NOT leadership.
That’s not pragmatic, that’s compromising your principles. If he were really against earmarks and wanted to bring the money back home, he would show some actual leadership and introduce legislation that a) shrunk federal government significantly, and b) lowered taxes enough that the “bacon” would never have to be brought back, it would have never left. Beyond that, he would get out and stump for said legislation and make a lot of noise about it and start drumming up real support for said legislation.
Ron. Paul. Is. Ineffective.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. ………
He’s introuduced about 400 bills like that, if I remember.
And if by getting something done, you mean screwing up the country, then I guess he’s been lazy.
I see some of the Ron Paul worshippers have been raided and are allegedly involved in money laundering, mail fraud and wire fraud. What a fine group of supporters this man has.
391 - Where? I haven’t seen any of them. Did he get out and stump for them? Did he ever manage get them heard in committe, much less out on the floor for debate? Has he ever managed to get one of them passed?
“It’s in the trunk”
391
How many passed and how many even meant anything (commendations to constituents don’t count)?
373. Matt, your point still remains unsubstantiated.
You compare a few quotes from obscure websites and nutjob from Louisiana, with national polls and conclude that the majority of white supremacists support Ron Paul.
It’s apples and oranges and illogical, but it does say something about your motivation.
I think your question was invalid, but if you disagree, perhaps you can pose it again on the next installment of your smear campaign.
Meanwhile, I’ve got better things to do, like signing up another 20 brand new Ron Paul supporters. It’ll be a busy weekend.
Ron Paul lazy? No. He creates earmarks with the best of them. Oh sure he votes NO but as they say the fix is in the bag. Best of both worlds.
It wasn’t Paul supporters, per se. It was the Liberty Dollar people. They just got a big shipment of Ron Paul dollars in, and the feds came in and seized all their computers, precious metals, files, bank accounts… and no one really knows why, last I knew. The Fed and the US Mint have been after them forever. But not because they’re breaking the law, but because it’s becoming accepted as barter slowly, at a time when the dollar is on it’s way out. If the metal money is in circulation against the greenback, it will contrast how much the dollar is falling. If that happens, the Fed can’t lie about inflation.
It seems like bull cause there’s nothing illegal about minting your own metal and they and other companies have been doing it for years. it’s never been illegal.
But in all seriousness. I found one Stormfronter that makes a lot of sense. Bet he did not donate to RP.
I especially like his Republican observation. C’mon some of you RPers out there can tell me… of RP is so spot on and he is so transparent why not run on the libertarian ticket?
Jim, don’t you want a man with a theory of government and an expertise in economics as head of state?
No one else who is running has real solutions based on tested and testable hypothesis.
400 - I thought that Ron Paul was a gynecologist, not an economist.
Ron Paul’s theory of government is irrelevant if he lacks the leadership to implement it.
As I understand it, minting coins is not necessarily illegal. Distributing them as legal tender is.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/16/national/main3513982.shtml?source=RSSattr=U.S._3513982
402- they never claimed legal tender. I think in law, a claim is 9 tenths.
401- he’s studied ecconomics for 30 years. I’m sure I read somewhere that he has an econ undergraduate b.s. Also,
Committees:
• Joint Economic
• Financial Services
• Foreign Affairs
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJfO4g0h-k
then, there’s so much more about his econ pedigree.
also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q
AND…he’s soooo dreamy!
#403 - Congress is the only one with constitutional powers to coin money so whatever federal legislation says on the matter is constitutional, regardless of what NORFED thinks. I honestly don’t know what the law is but I doubt very seriously if federal law allows private individuals to mint legal tender without approval of the treasury.
ok. we’re not talkin man crush. lol
Hey, at least you got a sense of humor
406- this is where fractional reserve banking and the fed and gold come into play. That’s what this whole mess is about. Congress conceeded powers of money to the fed in 1913. It was then that we went on the income tax and fiat money.
here’s a good video that explains it. It’s sorta long though
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531
#409 - Sorry dude, no offense but I ain’t watching an hour long film about the evils of fiat currency on a Friday evening.
I think its really a moot point since the power was enumerated to Congress in the Constitution. Simply put, whatever Congress said or did goes. If they passed a law that was unconstitutional then the law would be challenged in the courts and ruled so.
In the brief part I did watch I already found a falsehood: “Why is the Federal Reserve issuing money that cannot be redeemed for silver?” That is patently false. I can go out tomorrow and buy a silver bar with paper money. In fact I own several already.
But toodles. I hear a bottle of Lone Star calling my name.
Somehow I knew that was coming
Payback for annoying a certain jack-of-all-trades with such shenanigans.
410- your in good shape with that silver, cause the price is going to go way up as the dollar goes way down.
You cannot buy redemption.
Until 1964 the US printed Treasury Notes and Silver Certificates, Silver Certificates could be redeemed.
A repost:
NAZI => National Socialists
Can any of you truly can say that Dr. Paul is a socialist anything?
So, why would neo-nazis give money to Dr. Paul? Certainly it has nothing to do with economics or govenment control of the economy.
Other than the issue at hand, is there evidence of Dr. Paul being a racist? Is there a pattern that people that have had direct associations with Dr. Paul can point to?
New low for many here.
Getting even lower. I would have never guessed that LST would devolve into character assassination. And, yet, here we are. [head shaking] I am saddened.
Am I in a watch list that requires pre-approval?
What a waste of time and energy.
And the darn case of the Liberty Dollar folks has nothing to do legal tender. They just advertise as collectible and for bartering. The darn siezure warrant states laws based on money laundering and mail fraud.
http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/pdf/seizure_warrent_20071114.pdf
Again new lows reached every hour.
12 hours of circle jerking. What a marathon. Good work folks.
#399 Et tu Sqwak?
RP’s only claim is that the Feds have no Consitutional authority. Remember tht it took an amendment to ban alcohol?
RP has stated that he is addressing FEDERAL issues and not State’s.
Dang it!
I am not believing it. When I left work it was over 250 posts.
You RP, Snickeygram, MilkeyWay posters have driven it to over 400.
Congrats LST. The Ron Paul supporters are driving the numbers up Up UP. Vote for Mickey Mouse. Will this thread make 600. ? Bet it will.
Voted Micky Mouse for governor, 5 silver certificates sez 500 by 10.
Jaime
#419
2 time libertarian candidate for president (check)
Now running under the republican banner, oh btw he very seldom voted with republicans (double check)
Can you say RINO? So tell me what is his motivation? Opportunism? Or what?
In short Jaime I do not trust Ron Paul. You and I have batted this ball around before. I have argued and will continue to argue that Ron Paul is a political opportunist.
Unlike the other candidates, right?
Please. They’re all opportunists (political or otherwise).
So pat Buchannan is also a RINO?
O yeez. A politician that is an opportunist. What shock!
What were the bills like that were being voted on all about. Oh, that is right. The new measure of a leader is how many times they saddle us with new laws and “countless officers.”
No comments on RP’s statement that he is addressing Federal issues?
Did you double-checkedon how many times he voted against the Democrats?
I am still waiting on the answer to the “NAZI => National Socialists” post.
Am I in a watch list that requires pre-approval?
I have yet to give a cause for my posts to require pre-approval. I think that I deserve an answer to my question, out of courtesy.
So to those who have never used the “N” word, if someone were to come forward claiming they heard you (not singling anyone out) say it, they would be lying, correct?
I just want to be clear that your absolutely, positively certain you’ve never used the word, ever.
Jaime
First of all no you are not on a preapproval list
Second HAL has decided to pick on you and I do not know why, it has happend to me and others (btw I work here, remember?)
Third this is not a matter of discourtesy. I nor does anyone else with LST make it their sole job to check the spam bucket it is on an adhoc basis that it gets checked.
Nor does anyone of us monitor the comments twenty four hours a day. We are all volunteers here.
Ya know what stuscatol. I have been around a long time, seen more than I care to remember and more than I care to talk about.
I followed RP from his days in the TX legislature, supported him, never could vote for him because I have never lived in his district. But BANG 911 hit and all that bright idealism went away when reality hit home.
Ron Paul is nice guy but he does not wish to acknowledge there are people that want to kill us. It is all nice and sweet to say, we’ll just trade with them. That is either a real ignorant way to address the current world events or real stupid.
I do not trust Ron Paul with this nations security, not one bit.
#429
Fair enough, but I ask again why the crusade against Ron Paul and not Giuliani? Ron Paul has no chance, Giuliani does. Giuliani gets money and advice from a child molester.
stuscatol
I cannot speak for those that have posted stories here about RP. I think I have posted one and it was more about his supporters. Is it really a crusade against Paul? Hmmm I would think not, but I am admittedly a bit biased being a volunteer here. So I will respectfully ask for a pass on that question.
I find it interesting you say Ron Paul has no chance. LOL in politics anything can happen. I am leaning toward Hunter myself and “they” say he has no chance. Oh btw I am reading all I can find on the guy.
squawkbox
Yes, you’re biased but that’s OK.
And Ron Paul has no chance, let’s face it.
Look, we all know what’s going on here. LST won’t go after Giuliani like they did Ron Paul because
1. David Benzion is Jewish.
2. LST feels like they “broke” the Ron Paul story and it will put them on the map.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t do the same or it isn’t done daily by other “news outlets” (and I use that term loosely), but again just be honest about it.
That there Ron Paul is so freakin’ cool. He’s written so many papers. Too bad none of them included a bill proposal that passed.
He votes for ear marks, before voting against them. Freakin’ sweet! What page is THAT on, in the Constitution?
He is running for POTUS but still holds his office in Galveston. Guess he thinks he can still do both when he’s our next POTUS.
Again, I will ask this question: AHEM…
What has RP contributed to this country since being elected into office? No, carrying a pocket condensed Constitution does not apply, nor does not contributing to office, because he’s for the Constitution does either.
thank you sqwak for your more than adequate response.
Bad, HAL, bad HAL,bad, bad, bad.
#32 - “LST won’t go after Giuliani like they did Ron Paul because:
1. David Benzion is Jewish.
2. LST feels like they “broke” the Ron Paul story and it will put them on the map.”
1. Please help me wrap my brain around any concept of how being Jewish precludes support of Guliani? (okok or lack of scrutiny)
2. LST is ALREADY ‘on the map’ (you found us didntcha?)
#435
1. It doesn’t, you missed the point entirely.
2. I wasn’t referring to a Key Map.
Katfish buddy, I don’t think you want to wrap your brain around that one. The guy is off his rocker.
#437
Why, because it bothers me that you don’t equate child molestation with Jew-hating?
Even Mr. Benzion clarified his position and is doing something about it, finally.
How about you? Are you doing anything about it?
Jaime: Ya gotta throw Hal a couple of pieces of raw meat every now and then. Be sure to tell him what a good boy he is too. Werks 4 me, most of the time……I always thank Squawk too, because he has to slime his arm to pull a post outa the spit bucket.
Mr. Wiskerfish: You sir, are pee-peeing in the wind, just as I am…./Hal, have I told you lately that I love you? You are such a good boy!
#438: Have you ever voted before? Enquiring minds want to know. When? For who? How long? Do you know what time the polls open and close? Do you know where you need to go to vote? Do you know what the date is to vote? Do you live in Texas?
I’m just interested. I don’t mean to sound snarly. Afterall, I voted for Kinky and we lost by a LANDSLIDE…..
I love it when one of these Chuckleheads talks about honesty. They have proven themselves to be the most dishonest lot ever involved in a political “movement”. As Matt pointed out earlier they equate liberty with legality and therefore have no concept of what liberty really is.
Sure it is legal for white supremacists to game a youtube video then canvas the internet touting that the new Ron Paul video is the most popular video in the world. They can spam online polls that give RP 75% of the vote then scream how popular he is. They’re all still low-life scumbags.
What surprises and saddens me is that some of his supporters whom I do respect sit back and watch these tactics and say nothing. I KNOW they know how despicable these people are but yet they still say nothing. Up until this whole dirty episode began the only thing I disagreed with Ron Paul on was foreign policy. After witnessing this madness for the last month I would vocally and vociferously oppose him if he was running for Harris County Hide Inspector and its all because of the maniacs I’ve been exposed to at this one little “backwater blog”.
The one shining light in this sump of what was supposed to pass for political discourse is that hundreds of people that are disenchanted with our choices in this next election (as I am) and may have considered Ron Paul have witnessed these insane rantings and can walk away knowing that there is no way he is fit to be our president.
I retract my original request for Dr. Paul. I no longer care what he has to say. Anyone that welcomes a support base like this is not fit to hold any public office. I WANT him to keep taking white supremacist money. I WANT him to keep accepting guest spots on Alex Jones’ radio show. I WANT Jesse Benton to keep telling the world that he has no problem accepting kluxers dollars. I WANT Stormfront and David Duke to keep “Ron Paul for President” banners on their hate sites. I WANT “White Will” and “Burn Jew Burn” to keep pumping up youtube hits for Ron Paul. If his posse can manage to get the good doctor up above 5% in the polls the lazy media will get off their asses and start looking at all this. You will quickly see his real support drop precipitously down to less than 1% and by the time March rolls around Ron Paul will be known as the guy that got the Nazi vote. And the world will be a better place for it.
OK that’s great. Now are you going to turn your attention to Giuliani and his child-molesting advisor/donor?
Sorry, I don’t take marching orders from apologists for Nazis. Don’t you have some poll to spam?
DANG, Hammie……You will no longer, ever know the secret handshake. Blabber-mouth!!! You are outa the “secret” club. You’ve been BANISHED! Poof, be gone.
/I’ll miss you.
#443
If you can show me where I apologized for a Nazi I will donate $1,000 right now to LST.
Put up or shut up.
Donate it to the Ron Paul campaign. Here’s a link. The RP banner is at the bottom of the page. We don’t want your money.
You’re new around here, so let me help you. Do ya see the calendar at the very TOP, right hand corner of this blog? You can click on any day or month (other than tomorrow, because Lawd knows LST can or cannot see into the future) and read for yourself. Do some research, shuug.
As I recall, Rudy has already spoken up. Then again, I could be wrong…..again….Like Kinky….
You make another unfounded allegation and can’t back it up.
#447
OK I’ll acknowledge you although I have to admit it’s difficult.
Rudy spoke up. Are you satisfied with his response?
Uhh, No. Therefor, he’s not getting my vote.
Why is it difficult to acknowledge me? Was it because of my 433 or 439 post, or the hardball 440 post?
Here’s a test and it’s real simple. Just two questions:
1) Do you support Ron Paul for President?
2) Have you asked Ron Paul to publicly and unequivocally disavow any and all support from neo-Nazis, white nationalists, white supremacists and other racist groups?
If your answers are 1) Yes and 2) No then you are an apologist for Nazis (or an actual Nazi). And we still don’t want your money.
#450
OK, so why the crusade against Ron Paul and not Giuliani?
#451
So let me get this straight: anyone who supports Ron Paul and doesn’t specifically ask him to “publicly and unequivocally disavow any and all support from neo-Nazis, white nationalists, white supremacists and other racist groups” is an apologist for Nazis (or an actual Nazi)?
By the same token, anyone who supports Giuliani and doesn’t specifically ask him to “publicly and unequivocally disavow any and all support from child molesters, pedophiles and other sickos” is an apologist for child molesters and pedophiles (or an actual child molester or pedophile).
Is that what you’re saying?
#452: Shuug….Again, you are new around here. RP and Guiliani will NOT get my vote. Neither will Fred Thompson. (and I was gung-ho about Fred, but he seems like such a slacker) Period. End of story. I’d still like you to address my 440 post, however.
#454
Would you encourage LST to “go after” Giuliani as fervently as they have Ron Paul?
Even David Benzion said molesting a child is worse than hating a Jew.
#453 Yes. That is exactly what I’m saying. Both for Paul and Giuliani supporters.
#456
OK good. Now what are you going to do about Giuliani?
Now here’s the
bigHUGE freaking difference. We post a negative story on RP and you guys come out of the woodwork demanding that we stop our “smear campaign” against Dear Leader, never once acknowledging that the support of Nazis is a bad thing. The comment count is usually over 500.On the same day we post a negative story on Rudy Tutti and NOT A SINGLE GIULIANI SUPPORTER even shows up and not a single person demands we stop the “smear campaign”. Not a single person even supports Giuliani. The freaking comment count doesn’t even reach 50!
So how can you seriously stay here and tell me your not an apologist (or an actual Nazi)??? I may be ignorant but I ain’t stupid.
#458
First of all, I think Ron Paul needs to return the money and “publicly and unequivocally disavow any and all support from neo-Nazis, white nationalists, white supremacists and other racist groups”.
There, feel better? Now we’ve gotten that out of the way. So I’m not an apologist, never have been, never will be although you still try to paint with that broad brush of yours. And the implication/assumption you make is highly offensive (not that you care).
And I can’t explain why Giuliani supporters haven’t shown up, but it probably has something to do with the relevance (or irrelevance) of this blog.
And it all goes back to what I said earlier. LST has used Ron Paul to further their own agenda. Because if there really wasn’t an agenda, Giuliani would be getting the same treatment (I’m anxious to see the thread detailing what LST has done to contact Giuliani’s campaign as per David Benzion).
Hamous– great comment in #458.
On the other hand… could you please freaking check with me before declining $1,000 donations? “We don’t want your damn money…”
Speak for yourself.
Stuscatol, the PayPal button is in the upper right hand corner of the page… if I wake up with $1,000 bucks in the tip jar Monday morning, I’ can promise you Rudy Giuliani man-boy love stories from now through Christmas Day.
I’m serious. Pay to play. Hell, the full grand doesn’t even have to come all from you. Organize one of those “moneybomb” things for all I care.
Night all
#460
How about I donate $1,000 and you replace your current staff with people won’t make unfounded accusations?
Deal?
Replacing my current staff with people who don’t make unfounded accusations: $1,000
Laughing at some of you all day long in our staff’s private email exchange: Priceless.
No deal.
LOL, OK……Howie Mandel would be proud.
Looking forward to that Giuliani thread detailing your efforts to contact his campaign. Good luck.
If this blog is so irrelevant that anything the front-page posters here say amounts to so much white noise, what are you and your buddies doing here supporting Ron Paul so vociferously (and voluminously)?
#464
Having fun
Soooo….. 13 comments about Sutton, 44 about Rudy, and 465 about the good Doctor.
Good work, lads!
#458 I have been thinking that the ENTIRE TIME I have been reading through all 466 comments, thinking surely SOMEBODY would say it!!! DUH, it’s not that we blast away more at RP than Giuliani it’s that more people blast at articles about RP than Giuliani. If you guys didn’t complain so much, there wouldn’t be so many posts here.
P.S. southerntragedy can I be in the secret club? I am good at secret handshakes!!!
Huckabee caught lying again in another interview with Fox
*sigh* when will they LEAVE HIM ALONE
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/11/15/on_a_roll_in_iowa_huckabee_fac.html
“On Fox News Wednesday, he was asked about a bill he supported as governor that would have granted tuition breaks to the children of illegal immigrants. He suggested that he had only wanted to give such children access to scholarships.”
The bill read: “Any tuition rate that is granted to residents of Arkansas shall be granted on the same terms to all persons, regardless of immigration status, who have attended a secondary educational institution in Arkansas for at least three (3) years and who have either graduated from an Arkansas high school or received a general education diploma in the state.”
Huckabee sounding like Huckabee
On Fox News, Huckabee responded with a dig at prior reports that Romney had employed groundskeepers who were illegal: “I guess Mitt Romney would rather keep people out of college so they can keep working on his lawn, since he had illegals there.”
Case in Point
Never first lie in an interview, then attack an opponent and confirm that you lied
In the same interview
Needless to say I sincerely doubt the good preacher will be giving anymore interviews with Foxnews
Again and adain …
NAZI => National Socialists
Can any of you truly can say that Dr. Paul is a socialist anything?
So, why would neo-nazis give money to Dr. Paul? Certainly it has nothing to do with economics or govenment control of the economy.
Other than the issue at hand, is there evidence of Dr. Paul being a racist? Is there a pattern that people that have had direct associations with Dr. Paul can point to?
Can someone carefully ask HAL about its criteria for throwing posts into the holding tank?
Jaime, the Akismet spam filter system seems to think your a spammer. It may take a couple of days for them to “unlearn” you. I’ll try and keep an eye out.
On your 471, not a single one of us has said Ron Paul is a Nazi and/or Socialist. We’ve gone out of our way to repeatedly make that point. I would appreciate it if you could acknowledge that. But I think we’ve gone way beyond what could be considered fair and reasonable to prove that he is very popular with neo-Nazis and their ilk. I don’t understand why but them’s the facts.
Jaimie, when I went away from LST for a week on vacation, it took Hal a few days to get used to my name again. Be patient, you will return. It’s not personal.
Jaime,
As per #451, Ron Paul is an apologist for Nazis or a Nazi himself.
Don’t let the other rhetoric fool you. That is the “official” position here and why there is a crusade against Ron Paul and not Giuliani.
#446
Dang you Hammy now I have Stormfront’s site embedded in my computer. The Giuliani talk got NAMBLA in there, BJ’s “Legs in the Air” post led me to Playboy. I’m gonna end up on Greta or Nancy Grace!
#460
David
I was waiting for that one. Hard to control “all that big global stuff that Ron Paul hates” without the funding.
So you locked me out of Open Comments.
Not even a chance to prove myself that I would keep the RP comments on this thread. As if I don’t have other things to discuss besides Ron Paul.
Classy.
Hamous, thank you on the blip on HAL’s inner working.I guess HAL does not like not to hear from folks for too long …. does HAL like folks at all?
On the issue at hand. After reading all the posts I must disagree with your assessment.
Since there is no economics-governmental or racial common ground between RP and those neo-nazis, and the RP detractors know it, there only remains one answer to the persistance of the detractors: this is character assassination.
stuscatol,
No one locked you out of anything.
#479
I could not access Open Comments earlier but I could all other threads. It was strange.
Oh well. The censorship continues.
I’ll say it one more time: if you don’t want to keep running off your regulars, stop posting Ron Paul hit pieces. Plain and simple.
Stuscatol, contrary to your paranoid delusions, we haven’t “locked you out” of anything.
Your inability to operate a mouse does not constitute censorship on our part.
Headshaker: You had me going yesterday with the Stuscatol identity, but your whining today gave you away…
So why do they support him? Did they just pull a name out of the hat at David Duke’s barbecue, and it happened to be Ron Paul’s?
This question could be somebody’s thesis, is it the thread of anger (hysteria) in his words or that his presidency would destabilize the nation to a level anarchy that would please the self-destructive neurotics, the dissertation could be very interesting.
I see things are rolling toward 500.
Just and observation–some of the Paul Bearers who regularly post appear to be genuine supporters of the man. But for others, the newer names that pop in, stay a while and then disappear, the game is the thing and RP becomes the excuse for the game.
Is this now a keyboard game? Too much time spent playing video games, virtual reality games causes this?
Happy Trails.
Adee I think you have hit upon something. I was wondering too, if the game is on. Getting to be outraeous, audacious, and annoying, in a game of one-up-man-ship.
AW, yes, I was thinking others might suspect the same. Almost made the post yesterday but thought on it some more. Bet we aren’t the only ones. OCD (obessive compulsive disorder) still seems a possibile explanation.
#483
point out in which of Dr. Paul’s hundreds,if not thousands, of speeches and writings does he show:
a) any inclination towards anything socialist.
b) any history of racial bigotry
Whatever their motivation(s) it is not socialism nor racism.
#487, correction, possible
Jaime, why do you think they support him, then?
I am speechless.
It is sad that we live in a time where the ADL and other civil rights groups are necessary. Nevertheless, we have to remember the way things work. ‘Hate’ groups are out there. Sometimes they align themselves with people without being asked. It is perfectly valid for ADl to both: be on the watch for approaching Nazis ( I just finished the Odessa File) and to request clarification of the candicate. It is also very difficult for some of us to tell what is politically correct racism and what is not. For instance, the recent ‘noose’ situation. The noose was essentially speech; the beatings were grievous bodily harm. We must recognize that we are all ‘tribalist’ for want of a better word. In the West we have tried to push beyond our natural state by embracing and appreciating those outside our own groups. I find it annoying when any group, who work for there own ‘tribe’, become racist in their pursuit of equality.
Plonker, quite right. The veneer of civilization can be very thin at times, all seemingly depending on the who, the what, and the why.
LST= Self hating Jews?
Remember what you’re accusing the Doctor of supporting:
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Don’t play games like a Swastika is fun and a breezy way to attack someone. Especially if you’re Jewish and KNOW you’re making something out of nothing for your own gain.
DELETED That is not necessary The Moderator
These are the people you’re using.
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LOL lemme say it softer.
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You get more try to be civil. Disgree if you wish but backoff.
The Moderator
ok, so I can say swastika, but nothing else about the nazi’s without you deleting it?!?!
Why is the swastika ok?!?!
Now you are catching on. Oh and one more personal attack on Mr. Benzion’s being a Jew and you will be asked to leave. Read the thread he explained why the banner was made.
The Moderator
Well, I guess it shows me you do know you’re wrong, since you keep deleting my strongest points.
I never attacked anyone on being a jew. I attacked their motives for this article being based on something relating to being Jewish. I apologize if this is taken as an attack on his religion or self.
I am not going to argue with you the merits of what anyone or even you have posted. I am going to enforce what visual images are posted on this site.
I will point out to you that Mr. Benzion has explained his motive and THE FACT that he is not saying RON PAUL is a racist or anything else. Read the little black words instead of between the lines.
The LST Moderator
Umm, just over 500 posts on this thread. And it appears at least one of the kids was back playing the game again and became a bit snappish about the Moderator’s deletions. Now perhaps this person has taken his/her game elsewhere.
Bravo, Moderator.
In the two days since this thread began, about 3000 more people signed up for the money bomb.
So I’m wondering if LST’s next hit piece will come before or after December 16.
#490 I am still waiting on an answer from your side. Are no longer implying and actually stating that RP is a; socialist and a racist, or just a socialist, or just a racist?
Why do you guys hate Ron Paul so much? It seems there are alot of other more deserving choices of bad guys out there…
Paul spokesman:
“[W]hat you’ve described is certainly repugnant, and completely anathema to everything Dr. Paul stands for.”
Some people just can’t take YES for an answer.
BTW, why does LST want the Neo-Nazis to have MORE money than they already have? That is what will happen if RP returns the contributions. What secret insidious sinister motive does LST have for steering money into Neo-Nazi coffers? Is LST really a pro-Neo-Nazi front? No? But this argument makes more sense than the one LST is putting forward . . .
Actually, we suggested that the good Doctor re-direct the funds to organizations that will help dispel any rumors of anti-Semitism among his supporters.
LST threatened the Ron Paul campaign with spreading rumors of anti-Semitism if he didn’t bow to severak demands, and then proceeded to launch 2 more hit pieces.
It’s neither LST’s money, nor LST’s campaign, and while they certainly have the right to smear anyone they choose, they don’t have any right to tell other people what they should do with a third parties money, nor are they in any standing to expect special treatment from any official campaign.
Of course, LST should expect a response to the smear attempts from individual supporters.
So… When’s hit piece #4 coming out, anyway?
I wish I had the link so I could quote Ron Paul as saying people come to him to support his views, his ideas not the other way around. Why should anyone in America not be able to have a voice just because we do not agree with them? Ron Paul has no control of his supporter’s views or how they show their support and should not be asked to distance himself from their support of him. We all have the right to support who we want which we should all exercise; that is how the system works.
This issue is really just a tactic to attack the Ron Paul charge to the White House. Campaign contributions are just that….who cares where they come from. If someone who has been labeled a “racist” wants to support a candidate….so what. I don’t see anyone complaining that “Black Supremacists” support Obama (Obama’s own church is a Black Supremacist organization). I also don’t see anyone complaining that most Dem’s and Rep’s take campaign contributions from Jewish Supremacist organizations…..or Lantino Supremacist organizations.
If Ron Paul is going to make it (and I will do everything I can to help him), it will be because Whites, Black, Browns, etc……Americans want to save America! Revolution!