It has been a long time since I’ve read anything as blatantly misleading and biased in the Houston Chronicle, even under the guise of a columnist’s thoughts, as the pile of steaming bovine stuff that Lisa Falkenberg put forth in this mornings edition.
There seems to be some confusion here. Joe Horn is not a hero.
The Pasadena homeowner certainly had a chance to be a hero, but he gave up that opportunity as soon as he allowed fear, adrenaline, suburban angst, Old West entitlement or all of the aforementioned to overwhelm his ability to think rationally and consider the consequences of his actions.
Ms. Falkenberg’s opinion of Joe Horn’s motivation is utter nonsense. Lisa, let’s do consider the consequences of his actions: two less thieves are on the streets of Pasadena today. You have a problem with that? I don’t.
Let’s imagine, for a moment, that the whole ordeal had turned out differently, that after the 61-year-old computer consultant called 911 to report a burglary next door on that November afternoon, he had followed the dispatcher’s advice and stayed safely inside his house.
He still could have provided descriptions of the bad guys and let police know which way they were fleeing. He could have stood guard, loaded shotgun in hand, just in case the burglars preyed on his house next.
The headlines could have portrayed him as vigilant rather than vigilante: “Homeowner helps nab burglars,” or “Hometown hero praised for being good neighbor.”
Yes, Lisa, let’s imagine. Let’s imagine that Mr. Horn did exactly as you wanted him to do, cower in the corner of his home, allowing these two thugs to terrorize his neighbors. Let’s imagine he provided descriptions of the two thieves when the police eventually arrived. Know what would have happened?
Nothing. No headlines, not even on page B3. No capturing of the suspects by a police department overwhelmed with “real” crime that they must curtail, you know, traveling 5 mph over the speed limit, pulling over people that have expired inspection tags and doing safety checks (actually revenue enhancements) on those pesky 18 wheelers that travel the roads.
Most importantly, Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston, would still be alive.
It is sad that human lives were lost, especially for the grieving families. But these men lost their lives because of the choices that they made to terrorize their fellow citizens. Mr. Horn didn’t wake up that Thursday morning hoping to kill someone.
Meanwhile, Horn has had to flee to an undisclosed location to escape the media attention. And Quanell X and cohorts are staging protests outside his house in an attempt to brand him a racist. Horn’s supporters, some armed with a fleet of revving motorcycles, staged a dueling demonstration over the weekend.
There was no dueling rally, Lisa. Mr. X came into the neighborhood with his racist agenda and ran out with his tail between his legs because the people of that neighborhood and the surrounding suburbs would have no part in it. Mr. Horn has had to flee because of biased reporters and columnists.
But Horn’s isn’t a clear case of self-defense. If it were, his name would be as unfamiliar to you as Gerald Lynn Southworth.
Southworth, a 60-year-old Porter property owner, also used his gun to fatally shoot someone he suspected of stealing. But Southworth’s story a few days ago didn’t grab national headlines. It was buried on Page B3 of this paper. Why? Because it appeared Southworth really was defending his own property.
No, Lisa, Mr. Southworth’s story was buried on page B3 because the Chonicle’s editor didn’t think it newsworthy. Put it on page one. Let people know that citizens have had enough and are fighting back.
Horn was “devastated” and in need of a sedative after the shooting, Lambright said. A statement Horn issued said the killings would “weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased.”
Southworth had to be taken to the hospital because of chest pains after the shooting.
“I am sorry as hell,” Southworth told KTRK (Channel 13). “I just wished there had been another way to resolve this.”
In Horn’s case, there was a better way. He just refused to take it.
Lisa, there is a better way. Report the facts. Don’t base your opinion of a person on the fact that one had to take a sedative and one had chest pains.
The Chronicle had a better way. You refused to take it.
—————————————-
Want to read stuff that makes you all comfy and cozy, stuff that you agree with all the time? Don’t click the picture and vote for BigJolly, ’cause it ain’t happening.
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209 Responses to “Chron Bias: Joe Horn No Hero - He Is Our Enemy”Search
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As usual the Crummyicle acted as “judge, jury and executioner” in writing about Mr. Horn. Look, you weren’t there, you don’t know all the facts but thru some devine wisdom you ascertained Mr. Horn’s guilt. How come the Crummyicle didn’t approach it from those two burglars point of view and say all they had to do was, first, not burglarize that home and take something that wasn’t theirs and then when confronted, they should have surrendered, allowed themselves to get arrested and taken their case to court and a jury and prove their innocense.
Bovine Scatology! Indeed!
Is anyone going to shed a tear when the comical finally draws it’s last breath?
If only Sean Taylor had Joe Horn living next to him?
Hmm… So the chronicle disagrees with the man, slams him, and tries to make his supporters out to be kooks and racists.
Now there’s a familiar tune, I know I’ve heard it before, but I can’t remember where.
Let me get this straight:
Homeowner defending his neighbor’s home is a bad guy with sense of “Old West Entitlement”.
Citizens/neighbors on scary motorcycles who rally around him are bad.
Two thugs who broke into home and were shot (and BTW, had lengthy criminal records) are victims.
Thug “activist” with racist agenda with sense of 5th Ward Entitlement is good.
Dang, she sure has to reach far and wide to come to those conclusions….
I sure hope (for her sake) no one breaks into her home, while a neighbor hides safely in their home with loaded gun to be lauded on page one as a hero when the crooks are later caught.
People are tired of being crime victims and if things don’t change, right or wrong, we will see more of this.
I am genuinely shocked at this article. Not because of the opinions of the reporter, but because this piece is appearing as a front-page news story in a major daily newspaper. Falkenberg does not even try to portray this as an objective piece of reporting. It is unapologetically “in your face” opinion. I am saving this to show to people when they tell me journalists in America are professional and unbiased. This is unbelievable to me.
By the way, in today’s print edition, the Falkenberg piece appears on the front of editorial section– it’s usual location.
I think what I hate most about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton is the way they inspire folks like Quanell No. 10 to do this DELETED. Can you imagine having a life so empty, having nothing better to do with your time? I know these folks crave attention, but I still strain to understand how they can find this activity to be uplifting.
No need for cursing. Use a mature vocabulary. LST Moderator
#9 Shannon
Just tried to call you to ask that question. Are you saying it is in the editorial section or is it treated as a main news story ? Does it have “commentary” in the headline area ?
Here’s the actual 911 call
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3d_1195171937
the beeping is the redacted personal information
texpat,
The online edition has it front page. When you click on it, it is under the bold heading Front Page.
I Googled her name and found that she was added as a columnist during Rick Casey’s departure.
If this is opinion, it should be labeled as such.
BigJolly
listen to the tape
I’ve listened to it. Several times as a matter of fact. Long before you posted the link.
I think that Mr. Horn was right in his actions. Clear enough for you?
First, I believe Joe Horn was motivated by a desire to protect his neighborhood and righteous anger at the crime he saw. He called 9-1-1 and basically got a lecture from the dispatcher. I still have not heard how long it was into the 6-minute or so call before the dispatcher sent patrol cars.
Second, Falkenberg is a COLUMNIST, not a reporter. She is paid to state her OPINIONS and is not expected to withhold her biases. (Although more research in this situation could have produced a different opinion.) The Chronicle has run a local news columnist in that left hand column of the local news front for two decades.
Leon Hale used to be there 2-3 days a week. So was Thom Marshall, who provided mostly pablum.
Is Falkenberg biased? Yes, but that’s OK. Is the Chron biased? Yes, and that would be OK if the Chron did not deny it. (After all, when the First Amendment was written, the newspapers were owned by the various political parties.)The Chron’s bias really shows in this: It does not have a columnist offering conservative views of local events.
Sounded like he was itching to kill someone - without that call I would give Mr Horn the doubr - with that call -its going to be really really tough to convince a jury - look last I checked
Burglary was not a capital crime.
I have great sympathy - but this will go to trial either here or in Federal Court
Mr Horn maybe a cause celeb but I think Q(x) may finally have a platform as well as the gunnuts.
fink1,
I don’t read the print edition. I read it online. This is presented as a Front Page story, check it out. I don’t know who Lisa Falkenberg is. Certainly her writing is full of opinion - it should be presented that way.
Second, the bias shows in not putting Mr. Southworth front page. They didn’t think it newsworthy.
Big,
The bias of the Chronicle writer is apparent. Was there a right way or wrong way to handle the situation….I dunno.. I was not there and I was not standing in Mr Horn’s shoes.
I do believe there were a number of ways to handle the situation. All could have been correct depending upon the who, what, when, and where.
I have had my home burglarized and immediately after the crime I felt like doing something far more cruel than shooting the culprits. The burglars (at least one) had been armed with a very scary home made knife, which he left in trade for the swag that he took. It scared me to think what could have happened if my wife or I had walked in on them during the burglary. I have since installed a very good burglar alarm system and have not had a second burglary.
Regards
Simple
Well,
all this overheated got my gun got the right to shoot people rhetoric has ruined three lives.
Three people, two dead, one facing certain emotional, financial and social stree beyond what we can imagine and we still have people coming in here and writing stuff like go get some articles.
So that bag of loot - is an LA style riot breaks out - is going to end up costing that community more than all the postering and bloviating here.
And yes crime is terrible - but doesn’t give you the right to kill.
That should be if an LA style riots breaks out
“all this overheated got my gun got the right to shoot people rhetoric has ruined three lives.”
No, breaking into this guy’s neighbor’s house ruined those lives. I bet you’d blame the Allies for shooting at those poor German tourists in France in June of 1944.
Neither is pointing a gun at a police officer. But it’ll still get you shot.
You’re confusing two issues:
1. Is the death penalty a proper punishment for burglary? That is, is burglary a capital crime?
2. Regardless of 1, did Horn satisfy the statutory requirements for being able to use deadly force?
No one is claiming that Horn was an agent of the state, so your “not a capital crime” bleat is little more than a bumper sticker.
Free Tibet!
Now, there’s a bumper sticker!
BL -
The only thing that ruined the lives of the two dead criminals was their own decisions. THEY made the decision to break in to a house that wasn’t theirs, THEY made the decision to take what wasn’t theirs, THEY made the decision to not stop when confronted.
The third life has been ruined by an out of control media, a warped legal system, and victims rights pimps like Quanell 10.
And no, robbery doesn’t give you the right to kill, but defending yourself, your property and the property of your neighbor may force you to make that decision.
Best explanation yet.
Matt
It was clear from the audio he intended to shoot them.
Skinny AL
Our legal system doesn’t exactly work that way and the DA’s around here could give a flyin leap about Q(x)
Bannable,
You are confusing the force necessary to stop a crime “in progress” with the punishment meted out in a court of law.
Rape is not a capital crime; neither is armed robbery;neither is kidnapping. But if you get caught in the act of any of those, there’s a fairly good chance you are going to get shot and killed.
Matt
If youintend to shoot someone that intent overides the statutory situation - or it will be real real difficult for a jury to seperate
IMO
29
Horn wasn’t raped - and he was the only one armed
Bannable, I would hope that anyone approaching an armed criminal is willing to kill them. Anything else, and it just makes them a bigger target.
Sorry, that should be criminal armed, not armed criminal.
#24 Fasternu,
It should be “Free Tibet! (with qualifying purchase of Nepal)”
Now THAT’S a bumper sticker!
22
Faster you for exactly proving my point
31 Bannable,
Analogies are lost on you, huh?
36
Analogies are for those out of a good argument
37 Bannable,
You seem impervious to a good argument also.
If I have “suburban angst” can I get some sort of disability entitlement?
Along with most sound reasoning…
BL -
1. I’ve listened to that audio track a half dozen times and I don’t think it’s that clear. He was going to confront them, and stop them, and I’ll even concede that he thought that he might have to shoot them, but I don’t know that he went out with the express purpose of taking lives.
2. I’m also convinced that he was scared to death and he felt that he was taking the only path he could take.
3. The dispatcher was no help at all. I got the impression that he was far more worried about what Horn might do then about the fact that 2 men were committing felony robbery.
BL -
Unless you have abilities unknown to mortal man, you don’t know what Mr. Horn’s intent was. I mean seriously, you can infer his mindset and intent on the basis of what you heard in a fairly distorted phone recording?
I would be pleased and honored to have Joe Horn
as a neighbor. He’s a hero to me!
From last night, the anti-gun lobby will make this as a test case and they will use the media and every device possible to distort and accentuate anything questionable about the event to disadvantage of the citizen.
Humans are imperfect creatures and Mr. Horn is no exception, professional law enforcement rarely makes “textbook” procedure discharging their duties, every situation is unique. To expect a civilian to discharge his rights and responsibilities at the level of a professional, a lawyer and police officer is extraordinary.
“December 3rd, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Mr. Horn’s case will set legal precedent and be used as a standard for all future judgments; the new state law will be interpreted and will either bolster one’s ability to defend his property or not.”
42
No when people say things like
I have the right
I have a gun
I know how to use it
They arn’t gettin away I can tell you that
I’m stoppin them
And much much more
What more do you need?
did you hear him argue with the dispatcher when he ordered him to drop the gun and surrender
Unreal
personally I blame TV
38
Its been years since I’ve seen a “good” argument - ask Hamous
43
Unless your 4 year old niece picked some of his flowers………
Gunnuts - got to love em
bigjolly, re your comment, #18:
Important points and you are absolutely right on the first one. The column now is listed under Top Stories, which is misleading because it is not a story but an opinion piece, a column. That distinction has slid by a bunch of Lone Star Times commenters.
Hate the Chron as you may, you might be more effective on this Web site if you occasionally read and analysed the print version. The Chron claims to deliver its print version to about 300,000 addresses in Harris County alone.
I do not like the Chron; I believe its top editors are both biased and arrogant. However, it does largely drive the news business and the public agenda in this area. Look how often LST refers to the Chron.
I think you are wrong about bias driving the placement of the Southworth story. When you compare Southworth story and Horn story you find:
–One dead burglar vs. two dead burglars
–Porter vs. Pasadena
–Defending your own property vs. your neighbor’s
–Law is crystal clear vs. not as clear
–pretty standard 9-1-1 tape vs. very dramatic 9-1-1 tape
–Porter case just a pale repeat of Pasadena case. (Wanting NEW or dramatic stuff is not bias although it may be marketing.)
Anyway, I like your stuff.
48,
So, does that make you an anti-gun zealot?
47
BL, you’re in need of help. Please
seek some professional assistance…
or just take another pill and chill out.
Comparing two full grown burglers breaking
and entering to a four year old picking flowers?
Yep, you need help. I’ll take Joe for a neighbor,
but I do hope you live in another town…
or another state.
45 -
I have the right
I have a gun
I know how to use it
They aren’t gettin away I can tell you that
I’m stoppin them
I’m sorry, I must have missed the part about “I’m going out to kill them.” Could you tell me where to find that line ’cause I missed it completely.
What I read (and heard) was a citizen doing what we need citizens to do a lot more often. I get told all the time - “The job of a Cop is to arrest criminals.” So who do you think gets the job of stopping crimes before they happen?
As far as arguing with a dispatcher, I give him credit to listening as long as he did. Who is the dispatcher? A nameless, faceless person, a long was away, with no authority, and no idea of the actual situation.
So, actually, I’m going to more, a lot more!
In a nutshell, two criminals were rehabilitated before they could hurt someone else. Criminals only get bolder the longer they’re allowed to ply their trade. He is a hero.
The 2 criminals are dead because of their own actions. The criminals are responsible for their own deaths. Had they been out working for a living instead of stealing they would be alive today.
Thank You Mr. Joe Horn for having the intestinal fortitude to do what was right.
In Southworth’s case, High five. in Horn’s a “you suck” would be appropriate and most suited. Horn was wrong and everyone knows it. Why cant people mind thier own business?
55,
I don’t think “everyone” means what you think it means.
55,
Unless by “everyone”, you mean “a few people, who either hate guns, or defend criminals”
So be warned!!! you criminals out there need to fear the fact that there might be another Joe Horn out there willing to risk his life to stop you from committing a crime.
Its very simple to understand, If you arrogant DELETED want to defend a guy who was wrong and not care about Southworth who wasnt only defending HIS property but himself also.
NO REASON TO USE PROFANITY, EVEN IF ITS AN ACRONYM. LST MODERATOR
then go ahead.
Reply to No. 55: If everybody minded their own business, then there wouldn’t be any witnesses to a crime that might be perpetrated, even on you, “coldpizza”. There wouldn’t be anybody reporting child abuse or on the next terrorist, is that what you mean?????
Is it that hard to fathom? actually are you in the second grade?
coldpizza #55
The burglars were not minding their own business. Joe Horn wanted the police to handle the situation, that’s is why he called 911. That the police failed to arrive in time was the only reason Mr. Horn acted on his own. That the CRIMINALS failed to surrender and chose to move on Mr. Horn is the reason they are dead.
But please do tell all of your neighbors that if they see anyone burglarizing your home to mind their own business.
Im in school. plenty of witnesses, make my day
I hate my neigbors and BTW Im southworth’s Grand daughter
and if narrow-mindedness is a more frequent in internet forums than i think it is than…
Coldpizza
Everyone would really like to know who you are so if we ever see you getting robbed, your wife being raped, or your house being burglarized we will know enought to mind our own business let the criminals do whatever they have a mind to do.
coldpizza,
You need to re-read what I wrote. I’m saying that both men were right. Notice that I said the Chronicle should have put it on the front page.
You judge too quickly and harshly.
bigjolly
The way I read it coldpizza believes that criminals have a right to be left alone to do whatever they want without interference from neighbors.
**Applause** BJ! Well said!
Reply to No. 64: So if you are in school and somebody decides to beat you up, do you want everybody to mind their own business. Look, people have to look after each other thats just the neighborly thing to do. The police cannot be everywhere, every time, that’s why they have neighborhood watches. That’s why Joe Horn stepped in. He witnessed, he reported, the police didn’t respond in time, he acted and now two criminals will not be able commit anymore crimes on you, me or anybody else.
when this story 1st broke, even the Chronicle stated ” when Joe Horn went outside to confront the perps., he discovered that they had come into/onto his property and that they where only 15 feet from his front door”. That’s when he challenged them to STOP, and they choose “poorly” !
Coldpizza
Certianly you would not want any of your school mates to interfer if you became a crime victim. I mean don’t you want them to mind their own business and let the criminal do whatever they want to you?
All of your school mates need to turn a blind eye and just walk on by.
wfish
As luck would have it, another country on another continent!
One has to wonder how the Crummyicle columnist would have written her piece if Joe Horn had been killed. Let’s see, maybe it would go something like this: “Joe Horn was killed for caring about somebody else’s property. That will teach him not to take the law into his own hands. Maybe he should have avoided confrontation by letting those criminals rob him at the same time so they don’t have to come back.”
MODERATOR:
Where did coldpizza’s comment go? It was at number 55. Several comments subsequent to that don’t make sense without his comment there.
Sorry bout that. I have restored them.
The LST Moderator
Does Lisa Falkenberg and the Crummycile consider defending private property “Old West entitlement”?
cp, Does the term community mean anything?
#65 - “I hate my neigbors”
easy enough for us to believe!
“and BTW Im southworth’s Grand daughter”
I can type that I’m Sam freakin Elliot and filthy rich and have a plethora of lady friends to do my bidding - doesn’t make it TRUE……….
Did’nt they just bury a football player in Miami who was shot by mere burglars? If only he had stayed in bed and let them loot his house….
Mr Horn had the right to defend his neighbor’s property. However, he had even more right to defend his own when they moved toward his house.
One thing is clear from the 911 tape: Horn repeatedly informs the operator that was in fear of being harmed by the two thugs. He says something to the effect of “I’m afraid they’re going to kill me” at least once, and implies it directly several other times. He also says repeatedly that he is holding the shotgun in “self defense” on his own property. The shots also happened when they were in his own front yard.
Another interesting point to be made is that the police response time was ridiculously slow. It took 7 minutes from the time the call was placed until Horn shot the perps and 8 minutes before the first cops arrived on the scene. For the first 6 minutes, Horn waited patiently on the phone with the dispatcher as a crime happened right in front of him with the police nowhere in site.
Why does liking your neighbors have to do with doing the right thing?
#80 My #4
If only Sean Taylor had Joe Horn living next to him?
Phil
Were the perps shot in the chest or back?
I ask simply because if I were in the perps shoes I wouldve been running away and wouldve been shot in the back… not the neck and chest.
How do we send monies to Joe Horn for his legal fees?
From my understanding, one perp was shot in the chest and another in the side. I’ll see if I can locate where I read it and post a link.
#55 cold pizza
If you came here to vent your spleen, well, I do hope you feel better now. If you sincerely believe Mr. Horn was wrong and you have any desire whatsoever to share your opinion, it is welcome here. Obviously, there is disagreement about the events in Pasadena and one of the primary purposes of this forum is to allow people to discuss and debate them.
If indeed you are Mr. Southworth’s granddaughter, then you are close to a shooting situation and have insight as a family member. However, you won’t change any minds or elicit sympathy for your opinion by telling those you disagree with their position is illegitimate. Also, give Mr. Southworth our best regards as I am sure he has not had an easy time of it.
#49 fink1
I read the Chronicle every day for many years and I am quite familiar with the placement of the Falkenberg column. The glaring problem here is the online staff did nothing to clarify the column as commentary. There are many readers of this site who do not live in the Houston area, much less in Texas. I live across the Hudson River from NYC so my access to a print version is nil. The Chronicle is frequently cited by other newspapers and websites across the nation and one would think those types of distinctions would be a high priority.
Sorry, I got busy and haven’t been following this thread. To (hopefully) answer your questions:
Falkenberg’s inane opinions are featured regularly in a column that appears on the front page/ left-hand column / top-of-the-page of the City-State-Editorial Section of the print edition.
I have never seen her column appear on the front page (Section A, page 1) of the print edition—which was the case in the internet edition this morning.
Fixed. And you didn’t even vote for me. LST Moderator
Com’ on HAL, end the blockquotes where they are supposed to end.
Someone help me out. Does Quanell the 10th still charge $3,500 for his outrage? As far as the Chron goes…unless you have a bird cage, there just isn’t any need for it.
Mrs. Horn has stated these burglaries have happened before and they are sick and tired of it. I would be too.
Most importantly, Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston, would still be alive?
Does anyone know the legal status of the dead perps? Has that been disclosed?
88
Thank you.
#92 nope nothing disclosed. I bet it wouldn’t take a reporter who really cared, but half a day to find out. Everything is hush hush.
Did any of you catch the AP story on this from radio news. They said the riot had hundreds from both sides. umm I think Quanell the fool had about what, 10-12 and Mr. Horn had about 300-500….. not exactly an even match. hehe
I’ve heard they were Columbian in one report and Puerto Rican in another. If the latter is true obviously they were American citizens.
I didn’t hear either of those two countries.
VISUALIZE WHIRLED PEAS! This young lady mentions “old west entitlement”. Perhaps she should focus on the “new west entitlement” - you know, the one entitling any old criminal who decides he wants your(or your neighbor’s) stuff more than you do, or any of the long list of entitlements our inept government has bestowed on a non-productive portion of the electorate at the expense of the productive taxpayer. Yes, Lisa, please enlighten your readership to the “new west entitlement”. I’ll be patiently waiting.
#98 LC
No wisecracks from the Oak Forest crowd. We know what a bunch of trigger-happy yahoos they are.
the penalty for stealing is not death. if you think it should be you are ANTI AMERICAN and belong in iran or saudi arabia.
We used to hang horse thieves.
101 -
Apparently you haven’t been listening. The two thieves were not penalized. There was no sentence, or conviction. Joe Horn saw two thieves stealing from his neighbor. He called the police, and then, at some personal risk he attempted to stop them from committing felonious acts. When he felt personally threatened, he acted to defend himself.
If American ever becomes a place where this scenario cannot happen then I won’t want to live here anymore, and it will no longer be America.
fat albert……. I am with you! I was just pointing out, we used to hang horse thieves. Mr. Horn is my hero. #100 is the one who is saying we are unamerican!
AW - my bad, I meant 100.
I just peeked in on the “Comical Blog” and it is Smokin’ 1094 comments 54 pages! 95% are normal folks that know right from wrong but there are a few IDIOTS that think the two THUGS were treated bad. Fasternu must have 100 comments? I only had one. It is sad that anyone that lives in this great country think that you should run from danger and let the Ba$tards go. When I was growing up, this would be a moot point.
AW and FA,
I suspect Mr Horn will stick to the defence theory that he felt threatened and had to respond.
Shooting the two alleged thieves without a proper trial because they were thieves might not play well with the entire jury pool.
I don’t think Mr Horn rises to my definition of a hero and I have known many. I believe heroes are men (or women) who risked their lives, when they could have played it safe, to save the lives of others.
Mr Horn did risk his life to protect a pillowcase full of swag, but to me it just does not rise to the level, but we all have different standards. Still, I do believe that we (the people) should do more to protect ourselves from criminals. We cannot always rely on the police to stop criminals.
Simple
Legal questions…At what point do we find out where the “victims” fell? Is this public information? Do we have to wait for leaks? What is the time line for a grand jury investigation?
As to agree with fat alberts 102 comment, but to compare it to living in Iran or Saudi Arabia is hysterical.
As for Cold Pizza, if you are truly Southworth’s granddaughter, I must think that your grandparents would not be proud of your comments and I am so glad that you are not my neighbor.
As a matter of fact, since I live close to the hood, I just may point out your comments to your grandparents and get the whole story. Afterall, this is a public blog. If you are a troll, you will be exposed to the sunlight.
Simple
When we raise our children we set boundaries. If no boundaries are set what happens? What happens when society has no boundaries or they arent enforced? Just look at the border to see what happens. Crime is out of control which is a biproduct of no boundaries.
#106, simple, Well stated. About 15 seconds after the final shot, Horn tells the operator that police are on the scene. Albeit a day late and a dollar short.
This is a fascinating set of circumstances. I don’t think anyone can honestly say that he was “right” to leave the relative safety of his home. I think the question is whether or not he was “justified.”
I predict he wont be indicted.
#111…First two rapid shots-No Bill. 3rd and final shot, he’s got some explaining to do.
Autopsy reports will tell me how to stand here.
2nd shot grazed…needed a third. He was scared!
No, I think that the first 2 shots were aimed at the same guy and both hit. The 3rd shot was aimed at the second guy. There was about a 10 second lag between the first to shots and the 3rd. It takes a little time to acquire a second target. This is where I need more information.
It was a shotgun. As far as I know, it gets 2 shots at the most and had to reload. But then again, I’m just a girl.
#116, ST, I doubt that this was a double barrel shotgun. That would be too “Wild West” as some would like to frame this. Many hold up to 8 rounds.
He pumped it. DBs arent pumps.
I am saying he downed e’m as if skeet shootin and went back to the perp that was still a threat.
No Bill!
ST
Thanks for lunch. I had a blast. It was great seeing ya’ll. You are way more than just-a-girl.
No Bill!
#118…I understand your scenario better now. I get what you are saying. Hadn’t thought about it in that way.
I came into this a little late, but here is my opinion. The article was great because it make you think. He told the dispatcher “They are not going to get away with this” There goes any argument that he feared for his life. He just took it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner.
#118…I still can’t get passed the fact that someone was “down the street”…escaping. No Bill on the first. Finishing the job will be left to the jury…which will be hung. I need more facts!!!
#117: AH! See? Didn’t know that. I only have the double barrel shotgun. You men seem to need all the bells and whistles.
Hopefully we’ll find out what kind of shotgun that he actually had. Being 61, I’m likely to think that he had had it since he was 12.
DJ: Great to see ya again! Been quite a while and you are most welcome! NO BILL!
/call me a redneck if ya must. Quannel surely did!
I was listening to the Michael Berry show on the way home from work when “Chris” the Quannel side posse called in. He claimed that the people who showed up in the counter protest called Quannel numerous names. Michael said from the video on his blog was the complete opposite. I had phoned in to dispute the video that Deep Purple had supplied, and the screener said that there was a 59? minute uncut version as well, with Quannel being the racist. Since Chris was part of the “posse”, he claimed that it was edited. Afterall, HE was there. Anyone see the video on Michael Berry’s blog? I asked him if it was the one posted here, but he was unsure. I’ve got dial-up.
On the tape, Horn mentions the Castle Doctrine and the date it went into effect. He knew the law…and exercised his rights under the law. Was he right? No. Was he justified under the law? Probably, pending autopsy reports.
Us rednecks like to think of it as defending our’s and our neighbor’s property, and being put into a position that NONE of wanted to be in. He told them to stop, hopefully to hold them until the police showed up (just like I woulda done, but I mighta not thought to call 911 first) but it sounds like that they didn’t. INNOCENT until proven guilty, eh, Gaddy? That’s the American way, shuug! You know me. Would you condemn me too?
OOOH! Quannel 10 is on Hannity and Colmes right now!
#106
Simple
Spoken as an elitist moderate would, how many sides can you take on an issue?
It is always sad when human life is lost. It is more sad when people are afraid all the time because of thugs running amok. I must side with Mr Horn. He manned up when most would shiver and cower.
I’d be over there helping you protect your property, but that is another story.
#123
ST
Yeah, same video, it is 10 minutes (I think) uncut.
Most shotgun (pump or automatic) can hold three shells. There is a plug that can be removed so it will hold five but normally it is illegal to hunt with the plug removed. Goose hunting around here is an exception.
#125…actually he said “boom, your dead” then opened fire. He did not say “halt, drop the loot.”
Jiggy on the interview….Quanell just accused Joe Horn as the judge, juror and exectutioner….After all of Q-tip’s statements, Sean just accused Quanell of the same thing. Let the chips fall as they may. Innocent until proven guilty.
Mr. Horn knew that he wasn’t shooting plain clothes officers. Joe Horn saw a crime in progress. The cops were too late. (As usual) I have to depend on myself, neighbors and friends. The cops are usually there AFTER the crime is committed. I have faith that Mr. Horn was trying to hold the criminals for the cops to arrive.
#133, I’m with you ST…up until the point where you say he was going out to hold them until the cops showed up.
It was a foolish action to go outside with guns blazing. He knew about the Castle Doctrine, and in my opinion, he was eager to use it.
#132: I thought that I heard him say, ‘DON’T move, you’re dead’, but then I could be wrong, again. And will be again…sigh…It could also be which “altered” 911 tape that you listen to, I s’pose.
Good thing about my neighborhood…Living around Patton Village, I woulda had 15 cars within 2 minutes. Patton Village and Splendora. Gotta love THAT!
Phil_M Says:
December 4th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Phil - he never said that - he was itchin to kill em
I’m listening to the liveleak one in #12. Are there others?
#131
This one holds seven but whos counting.
ST
Patton Village. I thought the feds busted the locals and shut it down several years back.
136
Nope, he just gunned them down
ST
Remove Quannel from this equation - Horns in big big trouble - no doubt - theft is not a death penalty, unarmed men are not a reasonable threat when armed witha shot gun
Like GoldenAdam how were they shot (in the front or back) will determine greatly if Horn every has another day of freedom again.
Sad, the whole thing was not worth it, sad sad sad……
but what’s even sadder is we have the same intolerant gunnets cheering and people out there thinking that they can do this and be okay
Ask Horn if its okay…….
Ask Horn would he do it again…..
#139 Which one?
BL
Can you check with your immigration pals to see if these two thugs were illegals or not. Thanks
Defender. I am pretty sure we stuffed seven in there before. Let me go see. I’ll be back.
Daniel
Does it matter?
Deleted
THE LST Moderator
You see its comments like Daniels that good hearted and well meaning people listen to and get stupid ideas in their heads and go out and ruin the rest of their lives
SAD Sad sad….
I hope you realize that you can’t do what Horn did
#135 Adam: I hear ya shuug, but just the other day, I went outside with Mr. Freeze and the dog “blazing” to protect my neighbors house. Thank goodness that it was a false alarm. Didn’t even occur to me to call 911 first. Neighbor on the other side of the house was there as well, and I didn’t shoot him and he didn’t shoot me. I can’t imagine what Mr. Horn went through, nor do you, but I will tell you this…
I would of tried to hold the criminals until the police showed up. I promise you that. Don’t put me into that position. Or be happy. Ignore the situation. Thank goodness there wasn’t a dead body inside. I never know if my neighbors wife is home or not, due to scheduling. I would know that she woulda called us, but if she was dead, well…. Too bad that Mr. Horn didn’t have psychic abilities to know that either. That woulda been so cool!
Daniel, I beg you, don’t respond. We know you don’t do that. Promise. Let the ranter rant.
BTW, ST, you can’t be a redneck. You don’t live in Pasadena.
Sorry.
Eric, we can always count on you to come down on the worst possible interpretation of an issue. I listened to the call, and the main factor that had him “gun them down” was a) that the police never hadn’t shown up yet and they would have gotten away were it not for his intervention and b) it seemed clear to me that he was in fear for his own safety.
I’m pretty sure he’s got the law on his side.
Of course, EPJ has him consigned to the 7th level of Hell already…
#146
For this discussion it matters none.
#147
Have the MM killed anyone to date? Have I?
#148
I moved out of the city in hopes of never having to deal with that. I pray I never get put in Joe Horns shoes. Ever.
Also BigJolly
I agree with the Horn supporters on one point: the race debate only muddies the issue. There’s no reason to believe his actions were racially motivated.
But I am confounded by the rah-rah zeal with which some armchair vigilantes have celebrated Horn’s actions. Some readers’ comments on the Houston Chronicle Web site suggest the burglars “deserved what they got.” Last time I checked, the penalty for burglary didn’t include death.
I guess you really misrepresented her opinions - why?
Jimb
Nope he wanted to kill someone - clear as day
Matt said it best earlier:
“Neither is pointing a gun at a police officer. But it’ll still get you shot.”
Legally, I might add.
I have my personal protocol for when gun use is justified…based on the law of course. If someone points a gun at me and I have one too, last man standing wins. If you are in my house and I didn’t invite you, good luck…watch out for my first line of defense, my dogs. I’ll be awake if there is a random noise at night. I’ll then survey the situation and assess whether or not real protection is in order. Most of the time it will be a mouse in the attic. Damned dogs!
You will not find me defending my castle to the death if there is an easy out. Does that mean I am giving myself up to criminals? No. It means I understand risk and probability. Horn was not threatened until he walked outside, plain and simple. Was he justified under the law? I’ll leave that up to the lawyers.
That was for “speed traps” (unless you know something that I don’t know other than the bad cop who was black, but still has his job) and Patton Village said that they don’t have speed traps! They are still hiding..errr…parked all the time coming outa my neighborhood. /National news, if correct
Neither does Shenandoah,(never could spell it properly) Oak Ridge or Roman Forest.
No, but Texas law supports the notion that a perp may well be killed in the course of a citizen defending life and/or property against a crime in progress. The arument that burglary isn’t a capital crime falls flat here.
And no, Horn didn’t wake up that morning saying “I think I’m gonna kill me some brown people”. Listen to the end of that call again. He didn’t “want” to kill anybody.
You are completely wrong on that one.
I still want to know how Mr. Horn felt threatened.
But he did walk outside to defend a neighbor’s property. At that point, whether or not it was wise for him to confront them, a thread did materialize, and IMO, it was proper for him to use deadly force.
correction: A THREAT did materialize.
Hammie, just checked and my 1100 has 4 (1 + 3) shell capacity.
Why didn’t I remember that without checking? Weird. Alzheimer’s?
ST
My memory isnt the best but I thought the locals arrested a fed and kicked his butt when they got him to the jail. Maybe it wasnt Patton Village.
I guess we’ll never really know because we weren’t there, but to me, I could hear it in his voice on the 911 call.
#161…This is between what is “right” and what is justifiable. Responsible gun owners lose no matter what.
Jimb
I bet he is hurting bad.
Perhaps - I’m not so sure of that…
168 was in response to 166
Definitely a life altering event.
Its cigar time folks.
Good night
Absolutely a life altering event - I hope I’m never in his shoes…
bigjolly, hope you don’t go hunting with that. TPWD regs only allow 1+2.
Again…Glad I WASN’T put into that position.
DJ 164: I have not a clue as to what you are talking about. I do have alot of information about Patton Village (and most is NOT good, but some is) Please e-mail me if you figure it out. I’m intrigued!
BJ 151: Although I think that that was a compliment, (or not, to make your point, which I get, or so I thought) you have just given me an “I don’t belong to any culture” attitude. I must consider that I’m either a black sheep (naaa-aaaaaa) or an outsider…./sniff. I don’t beeee-loooongggg!
Really? Never checked.
Um, 175 was in response to Hammie.
As for you, Miss ST….I’m sorry that you have to be an outsider or left completely out but hey, we Pasadenan’s do have our standards and the most important one is that you went to Gilley’s as a teen. Now, if you can provide proof of that, I’m willing to take it to the BOR (what, you don’t know what that stands for?) and plead your case. Otherwise, good luck in the speed trap.
BTW: Thank you, shuug! My mind is like lightening. It comes and it goes. Is there a pill that I could take for that?
I went to Gilley’s as a young adult, before Travolta, does that make me look old?
BL -
I suppose I’m never going to understand your point of view. Mr. Horn witnessed a crime in progress. He called 911 like a good citizen. When the police didn’t show up, Mr. Horn (who was obviously scared) decided that his responsibility as a citizen was to prevent two criminals from leaving the scene of a crime. When the refused to desist in their actions and instead moved towards him in a threatening way, he defended himself.
Were they armed? As it turns out, they weren’t, but how was Mr. Horn to know that? In any even they were two relatively young men, already known by Mr. Horn to be criminals, moving in a threatening way towards him. What was he supposed to do?
To claim that he should have simply stayed in his house is to give the victory to the criminals. Why should he stay inside? Why shouldn’t he confront evil? “All that is required for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.”
In a perfect world Mr. Horn wouldn’t have gone outside, but in a perfect world those two lowlifes would have been at work in honest jobs instead of stealing from others. I don’t know if they got what they deserve, but the results were certainly due to THEIR actions.
#176 BOR - Board of Rednecks? Do they also issue the Stars & Bars head stencils?
PS -
I went to Gilley’s as a teen, even rode the Bull. Never did get a bumper sticker though, I always left my visor down.
#176 BJ: Hey now…Don’t even mention Gilley’s. I do have a reliable source that I actually had a pink, girley t-shirt from there and wore it all the time until it flooded in the ‘94 flood. My girlfriend was relieved (and saddened for my loss.) HOWEVER, I was too scared to try and sneak in. I waited until I was legal. DANG……
I went to the Tin Hall back then.
I moved to Houston in 1981 after the movie. Consequently, I could never bring myself to go to Gilley’s. But I have been to G’s Ice House. That has to count for something, right?
I’ll repeat what I wrote yesterday. Just because something is legal does not necessarily deem it moral. I’ll continue to withhold my final judgement in the Joe Horn case until I see all the evidence. The wait will take a while because grand juries move slowlly.
#182 ST
Tin Hall was the beer joint of choice for illegals back in the old days. Illegal drinkers that is. If you were tall enought to put your 75 cents on the counter and say, “It’s for my dad”, you could buy a beer.
#185 Texpat: That may be true, but I put my “balls” on the cover charge there, and not Gilley’s!
/Southern Comfort with a set up, anyone? 
Memories of the live band playing “Wipeout” would either break a hip or dislocate it now. The memories are so much bettter these days!
Oh yeah, and Lone Star Beer…
#184, evidence would be a breath of fresh air.
179
FatAlbert
He expressed a desire to kill, he was told what over a dozen times not to, he did anyway
Spin away all you want - Horn realizes he’s wrong, two people are dead and his life is over as he knows it
This issad, people should be holding the response time for the police accountable, but this overheated bloviating shoot someone rhectoric that some - not you - are engaging in - isn’t going to help the guy.
Now we have the Borderphiles piling in hoping they were illegal - sick - twisted.
156
Matt Hamous et al
Horn was not a police officer - and as far as I know - these guys were not armed
So the proverbial pointing a gun at a police officer doesn’t work
#190…There is a crow bar that Horn said he saw used to gain entry. I doubt it would have been left behind.
189
BL-
He expressed a desire to put a stop to what was happening. Some bozo on a phone said it was a bad idea to go outside. And, Horn now realizes that the media are never going to leave him alone and the legal bills are going to ruin him financially. He doesn’t realize he’s wrong, he realizes he’s screwed. And, in retrospect I guess the “smart” decision would be to just say “hey it’s my neighbor’s TV, who cares?”
I don’t care where the scum who started this came from, I don’t care what their skin color is, I don’t care where they lived, I don’t care why they thought it was OK to steal from someone, or why they were stupid enough to confront someone with a shotgun. I’m sorry for their families, but as for the two miscreants - “Think of it as evolution in action”.
fat albert - in case you haven’t figured it out, arguing with BL is an exercise in futility. It usually ends up with him inventing some bizarre offense and threatening to turn you in to “the authorities”. He has connections, you know.
Hamous - I know, but it’s fun to pester him. Kind of like bugging your crotchety old uncle until he gets mad and leaves. As far as turning me into an authority, I already am one, in several fields!
Did someone call me?
Yet still, Sean Taylor and his survivors wishes Mr. Horn had been at the site of his killers’ previous burglary.
192
Bozo on the phone? that bozo’s has Horn’s very future in his hands
Geez…..
Wino, they were armed…..
I support Joe Horn and have bought sent money and bought the t-shirt http://www.teequick.com
#198: I love the “know your rights as a juror” link! Bwa-hahahaha! Thanks for the info. You are such an infidel!
BTW: 200!
Mr.Horn may just be a hero. He could have stopped a chase before it got started. There are always many points of views to every issue.
Horn killed 2 illegal aliens, one of which served 7 years in a Texas prison then was deported then came back to screw over my fellow Americans. Horn did the right thing, the streets are safer today because of Joe Horn.
Two low life Mexicans here illegally who can’t work like most of the Mexicans here illegally are caught robbing a house and Mr. Horn did the right thing. By the time the cops got there they would have been long gone to rob and maybe even murder someone while they burglarize some other hard working American citizens house. They should have never been in the country. I’m also sick of the blacks protesting because these guys looked black.
If a black man is killed for anything it is wrong because they are black. I watch all the police reality shows and ask why are most the low lifes getting arrested blacks and Mexicans? The white folks should be protesting their crimes.
#203 ottumwaiowa, all black people are not protesting this or that. Black people are killing more Blacks than say the Klan. But than again, Blacks/Mexicans are not the only one committing crimes, have you heard of the White Collar Criminal. They don’t show those on police reality shows.
The perps were Columbian not Mexican. and White Collar Criminals don’t murder anyone.
Kemper 1899 you are right, but Black, Mexican or Columbian- what is the difference. I would be willing to bet the folks at Enron, or others like them, don’t exactly agree with you.
There is no difference. Enron was a one in a million situation. Dishonesty is not the norm in American business. I worked in American businesses for 30 years and invested in them for 40. It’s 99% honest.
Joe Horn wouldn’t be in this situation if our leaders both Democrat and Republican weren’t so damn afraid of stepping on Hispanic voters toes. Hispanics want they’re brothers and sisters here and don’t care if they’re here legally. Illegals in this country have more power than they’ll ever know.
kemper1899, again I know you are right and I can’t agrue the point. But I don’t blame the Illegals, they are just the pawn in the game. When you open a door and walk away people are going to come in if they see something good inside. The question is “why did we leave the door open and why is the door still open”. It is so sad, I have met some of those Illegals who just came to work and some are really good people. But the fact remain Houston can’t solve the worlds problem. I hope you noticed I said Houston. I don’t even want to think about what is going on in the other cities or states.
The moment an alien enters this country without proper documentation he is a criminal with no respect for our laws. I don’t care how nice he is, I want him out. Most people that break laws don’t break just one and call it quits. I doubt that our prisons are full of 1 time offenders.