Joe Horn’s “Innocent Thieves” Were Illegal Colombians Posing As Puerto Ricans
by BigJolly · 12/05/2007 8:30 amAs LST member Fasternu 426 said when he emailed me a link to this story, I wonder if Houston Chronicle columnist Lisa Falkenberg knew this when she derided Joe Horn yesterday. From KHOU 11 News:
According to a DPS memo obtained by 11 News, the department was investigating the use of Puerto Rican birth certificates by Colombians seeking to obtain Texas driver’s licenses.
Both Ortiz and Dejesus had applied for licenses. Dejesus listed his country of origin as Puerto Rico, but both men were Colombian.
Apparently, the DPS is investigating hundreds of immigrants who may have used illegal papers to get Texas licenses.
You think that bit of information, that the two thieves were illegally in our country, posing as Puerto Ricans in order to obtain Texas drivers licenses? I doubt it. But perhaps this bit of information would have, at the very least, made her stop and think before trashing Joe Horn.
A much wider probe has been launched into an organized syndicate of Colombians who are engaged in illegal weapons sales and home break-ins – just like the one Ortiz and Dejesus were involved in last month in Pasadena.
That day, Joe Horn and a shotgun stood in the way of the suspected thieves, but in many instances the suspects have gotten away.
An organized syndicate engaging in illegal weapons sales and home break-ins. Well, well. Joe Horn stood in the gap for the rest of us. Hero he may not be but neither should he be derided for doing the right thing.
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So, now they are terrorists dropping in from the sky, armed to the teeth using hand signals, or were they running away and gunned down?
We’ll find out in about a year from now…
Yeah Eric, they are just misunderstood. Maybe the DPS is wrong. And, they weren’t burglars…. they were Unauthorized Movers. That’s it.
Eric, You and Quanell X can call Joe Horn a murderer. He did the right thing. How many more crimes are these guys responsible for? Hundreds?
That’s confusing…
Falkenberg is a fool.
Smoke screens, smoke screens, we see so much of this, it is hard to see what really is.
I was going to post something about using a camera instead of a gun, but I caught two illegals(at least that’s what they looked like)earlier this year robbing my place. I have a new perspective on this now. Unfortunately, they ran before I could get my gun(yes, I have several). This issue has the potential to divide our community, but count me on the side of Joe Horn. I would have shot the bastards that broke into my house if I could have. Those burglars rolled the dice……and got snake eyes.
Oh yeah…I asked last night for a reason. Now it has everything to do with this debate. The dead perps should have been in columbia not in Joe Horns neighbors house stealing his hard earned property. Just more hard working people doing the work Americans wont do.
Its amazing the border is still wide freaking open.
What are the chances that Quannel drops out of the picture now that the burglers have been identified as Columbian. Too bad he had to waste a day of his weekend defending illegals.
Wouldn’t that indicate that several government agencies are looking for holes, finding them, then plugging them? Unfortunately they didn’t find it in time enough for Mr. Horn. The borders aren’t secure enough but they’re not “wide freaking open”.
Open is open. I say wide you say slightly. Who cares.
Party on Garth.
hamous
May I also suggest you take a trip down to see for yourself instead of buying the government tripe being spewed on how hard they are working to fix the problem. Seeing is believing.
Well, the “PC” Crummyicle would never report that these two thugs were illegal aliens with major criminal backgrounds and intents because it doesn’t fit their liberal agenda, but what’s new. It would have been a bigger surprise if they had reported those facts.
The border may not be “wide freaking open” but they are more than 3/4 open and even 5 percent would be to much.
Joe Horn eliminated a problem, that the problem he eliminated was even worse than first imagined is just icing on the cake.
And Lisa Falkenberg actually asked me why I called the crummycal biased. Her in particular. Burglary of a Habitation can take too many turns where someone can get hurt or killed.
These two will not steal anything again.
16 Dov
They aren’t biased, it’s just too nuanced for your small mind to comprehend so she has to tell you how to think.
Letmerephrase the question
Were these two individuals the EXACT ones DPS was looking for?
No……
18 eric
And you know this because of your contacts at DPS?
Yeah, I know. Government/Media Complex and all that stuff:
Faster,
Now youknow the procedures when a high crimes suspect is found at room temperature - there is a press conference or at least a bulletin released.
Its been going on three weeks
look its all up to the dispatcher and the forensics - Horns on the phone for 5 some odd minutes - then the unfortunate incident - then his statements afterward.
He’s a in pile of hurt, lets focus on raising money for him rather than misinform the populace out there than gunning down two unarmed guys running away was a real smart idea.
If you really care about Horn that is
“Were these two individuals the EXACT ones DPS was looking for?”
They’ll have an easier time finding out, now that they know where to find them….
21
Wrong
Not when there is an ongoing investigation. I think I’m gonna call one of the bigwigs at Region 2 and ask him if they were or were not the ones being looked for rather than make an assumption like Lisa Falkenberg did.
#18 - Can you not read?
BL
Read this and tell me what you think.
“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free….”
John Adams, A Defense of the American Constitutions, 1787
“…when a high crimes suspect is found at room temperature - there is a press conference or at least a bulletin released.”
Not if they are still watching other suspects associated with them and don’t want to blow the investigation. I have no idea what DPS is up to. If they wanted us to know they’d tell us. But sure as there will be a sunrise tomorrow, those guys will not burglarize another home!
Eric, you’ve already tried and convicted him in your mind. Like you did Ramos and Compean.
Does Joe Horn have a credible legal defense fund that I can contribute to? If someone will rescue me from my ignorance, I will willingly forward $100 to help this man.
29. Yes he does. It was announced at the demonstration and I’ll try to find it
So now the guys were running away. Boy shades of Aldrete Davila! Face it BL - these are another bunch of illegal alien thugs trying to do harm to our country and once again someone stepped in to do the right thing and stop it. Why all the tears for the criminals all the time?
hamous
Seems pretty clear to me that these were in fact the 2 men in question.
I’ve seen no evidence that the thugs were running away when they were shot. They certainly weren’t shot in the back.
Horn was acting legally when he shot them.
Eric is wrong.
I can’t find the defense fund site yet I will be getting some help (I hope) from Stubbs.
One of the articles named his attorney but I can’t find it either
My, my, my, my…the perps were thugs illegally here from Colombia, masquerading as Puerto Ricans? Gee whiz golly, what is this world coming to? There goes the neighborhood. Yea, Joe Horn.
Q10 and his minions looked foolish enough on Sunday, and this info makes him look even more laughable. Barking up the wrong tree, perhaps?
Think about this please, this crap is going on because our polititians refuse to enforce our laws on illegal immigration. They are the enablers, from W to the gov. down to the mayors and school boards. They have taken the side of the criminials.
#36 Kraut has nailed it.
jimb #33
eric usually is!
Kraut
Yes sir. Government created anarchy.
Faster Jimb
We’ll find out won’t we.
so you’re banking on the gee lets charge a loaded shotgun thing are you?
look, anyway you look at it Horn’s in trouble, big big big trouble - life as he knows it is most likely over.
Ramos and Compean were highly trained officers - who were convicted on the testimony of other highly trained officers - OAD was there to show the bullet wound - it was the defense who tried to try him.
Bad move R&C bad move Mr. Horn.
1,000 OAD’s are not worth Ramos and Compean, 10,000 scumbag alien criminals to me are not worth one Joe Horn.
He should have let them go - let the law handle the law.
The Joe Horn fund is joehornformyneighbor.com
Thank You bigmck
He should have let them go - let the law handle the law?
You mean the same laws that kept these two no good thieving illegals out of our country.
Right
Thanks
I am sending Joe some coin now.
Mr. Horn may not be in as much trouble as you think. He’ll be reviled by some, and he will have to live with the fact that he shot 2 scumbags, (no easy burden), but he should not PAY and PAY for what he did, IMO.
Apparently, that’s what EPJ wants to happen.
Daniel
All those people aren’t worth one Daniel James - please don’t do anything as foolish as Joe - LEARN from this.
Please
Jimb
I don’t have the luxury of banking on that - the tape was daming all by itself - no way its going to be no billed
In your opinion. I happen to think it will be no-billed. He was within the law. Whether or not you think the man was morally right, he was acting within the law.
Jimb
Morals? Killing two people and MORALITY?
Did you actually say that! For a VCR and some DVD’s and maybe 2,000 bucks of other stuff you are going to blow someone away? Wow!
“so you’re banking on the gee lets charge a loaded shotgun thing are you?”
I’ve had it happen to me. Only I didn’t have a shotgun.
EPJ
I dont know what you are insinuating. Yesterday you said I wanted to murder people. It is you that may end up in “big” trouble spewing slander and such.
Jimb
There’s a time for killing - its a sad and serious time. Let’s hope the DA and the Grand Jury feel the same way…
I asked earlier what you thought of this quote.
“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free….” — John Adams
IMHO
I not only believe that Joe Horn will be no billed,
I think the 2 border patrol agents will be released on appeal and found not guilty at retrial.
This dispite all the dung I hear from Bannable.
Bannable
You continue to misinform people to why the 2 ILLEGALS were shot.
It had nothing to do with what they stole, it had to do with their actions when confronted by a concerned neighbor.
#49 BL == If some DVD’s and $2000 is not the criteria for blowing someone away, please let me know where the line is so that I can act properly when the time comes? If you tell me nothing is worth that, then the thieves will have a field day at your house.
51
That was a snap out of it son - post
Just responding to the preponderance of your comments yesterday and especially this one:
DanielJames Says:
December 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
BL
Can you check with your immigration pals to see if these two thugs were illegals or not. Thanks
You seem to be constantly advocating “doing the right thing” which sends shivers down my spine. Your constant outbursts of revolution, betrayal and other such nonsense over the years - .
Man Up he mannedup by killing two people after being told not to do it?
56
This is why sociological testing for gun permits sometimes gets some traction in liberal states….
I am pretty certain there is something very wrong with you BL. Thats all I got to say.
Can you check with your immigration pals to see if these two thugs were illegals or not. Thanks
…
And lookie…they turned out to be just that….illegals…I have a freakin crystal ball.
“after being told not to do it?”
By someone not on scene and not with any authority to do so. He acted lawfully. Thank God we live in Texas where we can protect ourselves and our neighbors. The police respond AFTER the crime has been committed. I was taught this in the first week of the police academy. The first line of defense against crime is the fear of a crook being shot by an armed citizen. Then the police.
Fasternu 426 Says:
December 5th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
“so you’re banking on the gee lets charge a loaded shotgun thing are you?”
I’ve had it happen to me. Only I didn’t have a shotgun.
********************************************
Armed Robbery. I had a cane. Dented the actors head just long enough to get my Browning out. About this time Joe Horn is facing the ugly reality of what he did and even though it was or was not right it’s tough to live with.
Bannable
Police, on rare occasions, are present during the commision of a crime. Normally they arrive after the crime has been committed and attempt, often unsuccessfully, to determine the bad guys and place them into custody. Rarley do they ever get to prevent a crime by some bent on breaking the law.
This is why citizens are allowed to act in the circumstanse Joe Horn found himself in.
Bottom Line - Joe Horn acted Legally, the 2 ILLEGALS would not be dead if they were not out committing crimes or if they had surrendered instead of thinking they could take Joe out.
62 Dov
I gave the guy a skull fracture…
64
You shouldve retreated.
Eric
You continue to astound me with your willful and consistent disregard of the facts.
Mr. Horn shot two criminals who were acting in a threatening way towards him. He DIDN’T shoot them because they were robbers. There is nothing in the record to indicate otherwise. He was protecting himself, and coincidently, his neighbor.
What he did was indeed moral. It’s regrettable that the two thieves lost their lives, but that was due to their choices. It’s more regrettable that his life has been so negatively affected, but I still have hope that this will pass.
BTW - I notice that you seem to have conveniently neglected to respond to comment #53.
DJ
I’m a descendant of John Adams. A lot of good it’s done me…..
Joe Horn’s “Innocent Thieves” Were Illegal Columbian’s Posing As Puerto Ricans
I think you meant “Colombians,” with an O and without the apostrophe.
#57 BL says:
Eric,
Send me all your money immediately. I’m telling you to do it so you must! Oh, and then go make me a sandwich.
fat albert #66
Why are you astounded? Eric is famous for his willful and consistent disregard of facts.
PubliusTX. Always on the lookout for bigjolly’s lifelong struggle with possessive apostrophes (not apostrophe’s) ; - )
Why didn’t the editors catch that?
Hey, hambone, bite me. It’s tough growing up in a trailer park, no time for books.
#73 Hey, hold muh beer!
Faster
As heavy as the handle to my cane is it shoulda cracked his skull. He was definitely hard headed.
Than after HPD did their investigation the shock of it hit me and I went to an Ice House on North Main and called the family and almost shed a tear.
I was okay after a few cold ones. In my case I definitely had no choice and have no regrets.
#69
Something tells me BL would hand over his goodies without so much as a wimper.
#66 fat albert
I posted that quote twice for him yet nothing. That quote flies in the face of everything he believes.
I don’t understand what the controversy is about…since when is it wrong for someone to protect themselves (or a neighbor) against intruders?? If they are acting threateningly and on my property (or a neighbors’ that I have promised to watch) I am going to defend myself. End of story. If shooting to kill is the only thing that’s gonna SAVE MY LIFE, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I can hear it now, “but how do we know they would have hurt him??” BULL, he just found them trespassing on private property do you think they’re gonna say “oops my bad, sorry, leaving now!”
I don’t know why I’m just repeating what everyone else is saying…I think it’s called venting, makes me feel better to see the sentiments under my name.
Just got back from my local Chase Bank and fulfilled my pledge to the Joe Horn Legal Defense Fund. If he gets indicted, I’ll make an additional contribution. EPJ, there’s a couple of lessons to be learned here - a hard one if you’re one of the two turds who had to forfeit their student I.D. cards…1) Think twice before breaking into someone’s house and stealing their stuff and 2) If you stand up to that kind of behavior and defend yourself and/or your neighbor, you won’t have to stand alone, there are a lot of good folks out here behind you despite what the Comical(ly biased) and Quanell to the First Power say.
Moderator, did I misspell Terd?
Don’t delete it, let it post!
I am sure that you agree with this Eric - sell out our constitutional right to bear arms. I have a huge problem with the fact that I had to pay and go to 10 hours of class to get my CCL; something that I have the right to do without all the paperwork.
When I astounded some by saying Joe Horn is my hero…… it’s because he did the right thing. Rarely does that happen. People get caught up in all kinds of reasons not to do the right thing. So they don’t. I would rather be Joe Horn today, knowing he shot these two, than Joe Horn knowing he did nothing, and someone was raped or killed next door. Standing up is tough.
BL always takes the opposite side. Maybe we should try an experiment on him. We take his side and see if he jumps to ours hehe
AW, I’m with you all the wway.
Thanks Lawrence
#57 - “killing two people after being told not to do it”
WOW - yall reckon we could pass the hat and get that 911 operator to advise EPJ to jump off a bridge?
87 - C’mon, dude, you know that 911 operators are NEVER wrong!
jimb
“…911 operators are NEVER wrong!”
Omigawd.. Eric’s a 9-1-1 operator!
#89 now that’s a scary thought!!
#89 Faster
It is a poorly kept secret at City Hall the 911 emergency call center functions were outsourced to Doha quite a while ago.
I am annoyed by the argument that “no life is worth a sack of goods” as it so completely mistates reality that I have to wonder if anyone believes that the situation is about something so trivial.
Having been mugged and robbed twice in this one, I can only say the actual $$$ amount of the stolen items is but the tip of the iceberg.
Being mugged is terrifying and being robbed is often devastating. The guy that mugged me [in a ski mask] was eventually captured and I discovered that he had fallen on a child and ribbed the hair from his scalp by the handful. The kid spent a year in the hospital fighting for his life as filth infiltrated his brain after his scalp was ripped to shreds.
People who break into other people’s homes are not nice people out for a lark, despite how the chronwould like to portray them.
On one occasion, my purse was stolen and it took over one year to settle everything. In the meantime, there were credit ramifications and the stress was horrific.
I live in a crime ridden area and have a great deal of difficulty sleeping. The people across the street were robbed four times in one year and fled their home in the middle of the night.
In reality, the dollar amount of the goods is the least of the concerns. So, if some folks want to be sympathetic to the criminals, the LEAST they can do is talk about what thieves DO to people and how destructive they are and how they rip folks lives apart.
Money isn’t everything, but being able to lay in bed at night without fear and quaking is a good start.
Jan B.
“…being able to lay in bed at night without fear and quaking is a good start.”
You can’t put a price on that.
Fasternu;
You are SO right! Seldom do discussions actually address the real issues; instead, they sugar coat the effects of criminality while focusing solely on the harshness of the other side. I would just like to see some balance brought to the discussion, particularly by politicians in 2008…yeah right…
The Castle Doctrine does not speak to the value of the life of a criminal entering your home or assaulting you. And it is for a good reason. The safety and security of American citizens in their homes and persons trumps everything else.
It is why, out of 10 Amendments in the Bill of Rights, the Second and Fourth were directly concerned with that subject. The Second enumerates the right of citizens to protect themselves from criminal invaders and the Fourth enumerates the right of citizens to protect themselves from the intrusion of their own government.
The racist Propaganda Pimping media does not care about facts. The have to appease CornMeal-X and the rest of the racists like him.
They only know whitey always bad no matter what he does stories and they will never change.
As for the posters who question why he had to shoot to kill ?
Always shoot to kill, if there is a question as to if deadly force was needed, it is better to be decided by a jury of your peers.
When you wound a perp, you are subject to law suits and shyster lawyers, no telling how a jury will react as for awarding damages.
Had very “interesting” conversation with one of my customers today.
We were talking and discussing the “Joe Horn” thing.
He, “my customer is a Fire Marshall (gotta be a Cop before you can be a ” Fire Marshall) and he said “I met Quannel whatever his name is while I was on patrol with a black friend in uniform. He was nice, polite.
And when I ran into him 3 days later without my black friend he called me a “racist and called me so many names
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6…
Just before Horn goes outside he tells the operator that he will not let them get away with this. To me, that sounds like he intended to “punish” rather than to protect his life. He even mentions that was well aware of the new Castle Doctrine at the very beginning of the call. Horn was eager to use his new “right” as a property owner. That 3rd shot on the tape haunts me. There is about a 10 second gap between the first two shots and that 3rd one. He comes back in and tells the operator that one guy was getting away down the street.
If forensics comes back and it is clear that the guy getting away down the street (as Horn says) was shot in the back or at point blank while limping away from the scene, will defenders of Mr. Horn feel differently about this “hero?”
I’d be very careful about rushing to donate to his fund at this point. Why not put your donation into a money market fund and let it gain some interest until more facts leak.
I’m a “gun guy.” Initially, I was 100% behind him. After listening to the tape multiple times, I believe he has done all gun owners a disservice. The Castle Doctrine could be amended or repealed after intense political pressure.
He told them to stop. They didn’t. Two less thugs to cost you money Golden Adam. These weren’t choir boys. Two thugs who are here illegally and belong to a band of thugs. Good job Joe Horn. Protecting your home, your neighbors home, his family, your neighborhood. Thank you Mr. Horn.
Actually, listen to the tape again. He goes outside and says “Boom, your dead.” Then he opens fire. Here is a link to the tape.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3d_1195171937
# 101 AW
Nuff said
Those two will never threaten a household again. They volunteered to be where they are. Joe Horn handled that for them and at their request.
All boils down to ” If ya can’t do the time, don’t do the crime”
Dov, I honestly want to support Mr. Horn’s case. I cannot, knowing what I know at this moment in time do that. My interpretation is that he left the safety of his home to punish these thugs, not to protect himself or his neighbors. I fear that more restrictions on self defense will be put in place as a result.
Its maddening that the police were not able to show up on time. They arrived very shortly after the last shot…yet another issue that clouds the debate over whether or not Mr. Horn was justified.
102 - I actually thought he said “move, your’re dead”. I’ve seen it both ways in different transcripts.
IF he said “move, you’re dead” then that’s a way different picture than “boom, you’re dead”.
#105…that’s fair. Just listened to that part again. I can’t tell what he said now. I read “boom” initially, but I can see that it could have been “move.” I know it was not stop or halt. Also unmistakable is “I’m going to kill ‘em.” I think he said that before he brags about the shotgun clickin’.
106 - He did say he was going to kill them, but not, IMO, in the gung-ho redneck sort of way that some (not necessarily you) claim. He sounded scared sh**less to me.
And under the circumstances, “move, you’re dead” would definitely be interpreted on my part as “don’t move a freakin’ muscle - don’t even twitch”.
Jimb
Its going to all depend on the forensics and any eyewitnessess - with that tape I can’t see how a grand jury could no bill - I understand everyone’s anger - but you just can’t take the law into your hands
DELETED
The LST MODERATOR
That’s where you’re wrong. He DIDN’T take the law into his own hands. He acted WITHIN the law. He didn’t HAVE to do it, and I’m not arguing whether or not it was morally right to do it, but it WAS within the law.
107, I interpret “I’m going to kill ‘em” literally. As in…I’m making the conscious decision to go out there and kill these two thieves because they stole from my neighbors…very different from I’m going to kill them because my life is in danger.
If I were in that situation, you’d find me in a protected position, behind the couch (gun drawn) with an eye on the front door and an eye on my route of exit. I’ll be damned if I go outside to “protect” my neighbors “loot.” Live to pay taxes another day is the smart and responsible thing to do.
I can’t get behind the idea that a jury of one is the right thing to do.
Now, BL, if you want to see someone who has set himself up as judge, jury, and executioner, you need look no further than #109. That is a way different (and darker) attitude toward the whole thing than Horn’s attitude was.
#110, Is shooting a fleeing assailant within the law? I’m not an attorney, but I sleep with one!
111 - See #109 for someone who seemingly acts as a jury of one.
Horn didn’t go run these guys down after the fact vigilante-style. He confronted them as they were committing the crime, and in my mind, tried to detain them but couldn’t, so he acted within his rights of the law (I read the relevant statutes) and shot them.
#113, with all due respect…he confronted them as they were fleeing the crime. Also, I think the 3rd shot was in fact, an execution.
I’m not at all sure they were fleeing…
He says one was down the street. I think that could be considered “fleeing.”
I’m pretty sure that preventing them from fleeing is justification for deadly force. Besides, listening to the tape, when he went outside and confronted them, it seems likely that they advanced on HIM. Whether or not it was wise for him to go out there in the first place aside, if they advanced on him, all bets are off.
Like I said before, I hope I never have to be in his shoes.
118…I think no matter what side we are standing on, we can all agree that his shoes are not shoes we want.
# 113 Golden Adam
I’m sorry. My condolences. LOL
Golden Adam
Read all your statements, especially # 111 and i have come to the conclusion that I would rather have Joe Horn as my neighbor than you.