The Drudge Report had a link to a story about a young women that had been raped in The Green Zone in Iraq, while working for Halliburton/KBR. The story also alleged that the U.S. government had covered it up.
I thought it was just more Drudge sensationalism.
I was wrong.
The truth is, Drudge didn’t sensationalize it enough. He should have had his red sirens going off beside it!
Jamie Leigh Jones was in Iraq in the Green Zone and was attacked by multiple men, raped then put into a shipping container under guard to keep her from leaving. Lucky for her at this point, the guard was sympathetic to her and loaned her his cell phone so she could call her Dad. Lucky for them, their congressman was Rep. Ted Poe. Dad Called Rep. Poe who swung into action immediately.
Rep. Poe was able to arrange for her to be found by State Department Agents. They got her examined by an Army Doctor and a “rape kit” was prepared. (It has since disappeared.)
Jamie was flown out of Iraq and made it home. She was finally safe…
That was back in 2005.
In the meantime, no one, not the State Department, not Halliburton, not KBR, not the “Justice” Department, not no-one, has identified the perpetrators and prosecuted them for this crime. No one.
So Jamie has had to come forward to shine the bright light of day on this in order to try and get some kind of justice out of this.
It is an outrage!!!
It seems the Justice Department is more interested in prosecuting Border Patrol Agents than protecting American Citizens…
Jamie has since tried to re-build her life.
As with most bad things, sometimes good comes out of it. Jamie has formed a foundation to help those that have been victims of sexual harassment, rape and abuse while overseas working for federal contractors or governmental entities. It is The Jamie Leigh Foundation.
It is something I didn’t think was necessary, but obviously it is.
In the meantime, Rep. Poe is on it.
Go Poe go!!!
Thank you Jamie for turning lemons into lemonade. I’m sorry this happened to you, but it looks like you are helping others through their pain because of yours…
All the people that are involved in this need to be brought to justice. Now.
Filed Under Front Page ·
Wonder why it took so long to get out in the press.. It seems anything with a “Haliburton” scandal would be front and center for the drive-by media..
Heads definitely need to roll..
How could this happen? Why?
“A Houston, Texas woman says she was gang-raped by Halliburton/KBR coworkers in Baghdad, and the company and the U.S. government are covering up the incident.”
How can this happen?
Because no one is ever accountable.
Scandal, that would be putting it mildly. Everyone involved in the attack needs to be put away for a massive period of time, and everyone involved in a cover up needs to go with them.
The rest of what I think of these slim balls will have to be “SELF DELETED” so I will not have to offer apologies to the moderator and the rest of the LST readers.
I think the reason why this has not come out sooner is because Jamie was trying to work it through “the system”. At some point, she decided that it wasn’t going to work and went public.
What did Ted Poe do with this information for the last two years?
How does everything get back to the Border Patrol Agents? Can somebody tell me Johnny Sutton’s relationship to this story?
Going public with something like this is never easy, especially for a young person unused to the public spotlight. If you want to see the really ugly side of human nature, go check the comments (over 600 early last evening) on the original ABC website story. Many commenters saying she made it up, she was a willing participant, etc., etc. I was really unbelievable.
#7 RickG
It’s a valid comparison of injustices in our government.
#7 Rick
I agree. It’s an unnecessary, irrelevant diversion from what the focus should be.
#6 bigmck
I certainly cannot speak for Ted Poe, but I assume they were trying to get DOJ to open an investigation into this. It is much easier to gather evidence and get people to talk when the project is somewhat stealthy. Now that it is public, everyone will lawyer-up and it gets much tougher to make your case.
Does anyone know the Joseph Daigle named as a co-plaintiff in her civil suit (filed in federal Court in Beaumont)? He is not mentioned in the story.
Why would the doc/hospital hand over the rape kit to Haliburton?
12.
Never mind. Joseph Daigle is her husband.
trl
How about life sentences?
Drugging, kidnapping, gang raping…life!
I hate to bring this up, because I am going to sound like an insensitive jerk, but…
Something doesn’t smell right to me. I know that all the details havn’t been released, but I have a few questions:
I am not sure, but how can a rape kit determine rape if it has been days since the incident?
I know a lot of contractors are in the green zone, but how can she possibly not know the identities of her attackers? She can id the guard. Her dad has his cell phone number. The guard can identify at least some of the others.
According to her journal, she knows her attackers. They were firefighters who she socialized with. From her journal,”I started socializing with some Halliburton/ KBR employees, including approximately four or so firefighters. One of these men prepared me a drink and joked that there were no “rooffies” in it, and handed it to me. After having a couple sips, I passed out. I was drugged.”
For this to go 2 years just stretches my credibility. Is some other agenda at play here? Is Halliburton’s contract up for renewal?
I really don’t want to sound callous, I am not. However, things just don’t seem to add up.
Why is it that the victim in these circumstances is often the guilty party?
There is no textbook process that all these cases follow. Unless it’s you, you have no idea how any individual would respond or what they should be going through or how they should be handling it.
Don’t worry, your Halliburton/KBR stock won’t be affected.
16
Yep
the Green zone is a tightly held and restricted area and served by the finest American Military police with years and years of training under fire in Bosnia, and other hot spots and know a rape when they see it
I also find it hard to believe that KBR security orders our military around on a military base guarded by the United States Army and Marine Corp.
Just mind boggling to think about it.
There have been thousands of contractors in the green zone, they have been regulated, shipped home, prosecuted for theft, assault, her claims maybe absolutely true but why would the military Instantly agree to cover it up?
Mikey52,
I have the same questions. Some of this just doesn’t seem right. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but her story reeks of conspiracy if it’s true. And no, I’m not a conspiracy freak. But you have multiple party’s engaged in an alleged coverup that have no incentive to cover for each other. If the military gave records to a private employer you would think that’s illegal. And you would expect the military to investigate this to its conclusion. If the military finds wrong doing you would expect a court martial at some point since the doctors apparently didn’t notify the proper authorities. If they had she would never have seen the inside of that container. Also, you would expect the private employer only got copies not originals.
K-roger…
I do not automatically consider the victim guilty, but by the same token, I refuse to accept one side of an arguement and consider it scripture, either, without some critical thinking.
Again, go to her website and read what she has to say, read her timeline, then tell me that the perpetrators cannot be identified. What ever became of the guard who befriended her?
And by the way, I don’t have any Halliburton stock. I avoid the individual equity market.
Our politicians don’t seem to be interested in bad things happening to American citizens, but do something to a drug smuggler or a terrorist and they start howling. Up is down and down is up!
Daniel James
I am not sure if life is justified for thess crimes. It sounds a little light to me. How about life plus 50 years?
1.
I wondered that, too. But apparently, it isn’t just now breaking. I think this publicity is the result of the 20/20 piece.
She filed suit in May of this year, and that is a public record. According to her own website, there were wire service and radio programs (including on Pacifica) this summer.
Further, she says she has a screenplay in development and is looking for a book publisher.
So it hasn’t exactly been secret for some time.
#21
I always look for motivation. Why would someone like her make this up? It doesn’t appear to be for money. If she wanted to leave Iraq, there were other ways to accomplish that.
You have a bunch of horny men thousands of miles from home, operating under a different set of rules, and a beautiful young woman shows up. If I was a betting man, I would say her story is true (at least the rape part).
Here are court documents filed in Jamie Leigh Jones’ case from May to August of this year. I assume this is complete.
http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/texas/txedce/1:2007cv00295/103217/
25.
Just curious. Do you always immediately assume rape stories are true? I’m just wondering, because some people do, and the accused has to disprove the allegations rather than the other way around. If you don’t always assume they are true, then how do you decide?
By the way, I tend to agree with you. Though there are some odd aspects to this story, she seems credible at this point.
In her lawsuit, she has named at least one person as one of her rapists.
In its answer, Halliburton and KBR admit that she reported a sexual assault, that she was taken to a hosptial and a rape kit administered and that they notified the State Department.
So far, I have found her story to be believable. I do want to point out, before it gets thrown around here, she admits in her original filing to trading sexual favors with her KBR-Houston supervisor for time off to assist her sick mother. Why she agreed to this and did not file a complaint at that time is anyone’s guess. She was, after all, in the United States and clearly under the jurisdiction of federal law here. You may consider the fact she was 18(?) at the time and obviously naive as a mitigating factor, but we can also assume she wasn’t a young woman of perfect virtue either. None of which, of course, is any justification for a future rape and assault. I have seen this admission cited elsewhere on the internet as proof her story is entirely false, which, of course, is entirely ridiculous.
Rick, I never assume anything is true. But I’ve read the story, been thru her website, and based upon everything I can discern that this point she seems credible.
Certainly there are many false accusations made in society against innocent people. There are a lot of whackjobs out there.
30
When I was in the DA’s office getting information that she slept around with at least one KBR supervisor - this is the point the staff would throw up their hands and slap their forheads
I mean what to do, who to believe, ruin how many lives? No witnessess no DNA
Geez what a mess
#25: I have an issue with this statement:
“You have a bunch of horny men thousands of miles from home, operating under a different set of rules, and a beautiful young woman shows up. If I was a betting man, I would say her story is true (at least the rape part).”
That is very close to what was said about the Duke Lacross team. They were the “rich priveleged kids” whom didn’t have to worry about the law because it didn’t apply to them, remember?
I have worked overseas as a contractor in some very remote parts of the world (in my case Russia and Kazakhstan). I know that most contractors would not even consider raping this woman. Dating her, yes. Raping? No.
Whether you believe her or not, don’t lump professional men whom do work overseas with these rapists.
26 texpat
Actually, that should be everything filed in the U.S. District Court, Eastern District of Texas in Beaumont. However, discovery is gnerally not filed so if there have been depositions or interrogatories, for example, they wouldn’t necessarily be in the Court’s file.
Furthermore, this case was transferred from the Eastern District (Beaumont) to the Southern District (which includes Houston). Beaumont is a well-known plaintiffs’ haven where big verdicts are legendary. The Defendants argued that there was no real connection with the Eastern District - the plaintiff lives in California (another media reporting error), her employment and training occurred in Houston, etc. etc. They basically argued this was forum shopping by the Plaintiffs’ lawyer.
The federal judge in Beaumont agreed the Eastern District was improper venue, and transferred it to the Souther District. As you can see from the last entry in the file, it was received by and assigned a cause number in the Southern District.
#33
I’m not lumping all professional men into this category, just the sick rapists.
30
Yeah, that won’t help her credibility, to be sure.
#33 Basara
Good point. I was uncomfortable with that also as it reminded me of the slurs the Left throws around about our military overseas. I don’t need to repeat them - we’ve all heard it.
#34 Rick
Thanks for the clarification on venue change. I knew discovery wouldn’t be posted there. And yes, Walter Umphrey put Beaumont on the map as the place to clean the clock of any wealthy defendant in a tort case. Walter may not be the King of Torts, but he is one of the Crown Princes.
Another reason to be suspicious. From her journal:
August 18-2007- I optioned my story to be written for a screenplay. The screenplay is currently in development and is being written by Tom Whitus.
This lady want justice or publicity? And she has a marketing director!
#39
The fact she wants publicity could mean she doesn’t want this to happen to someone else.
Ya think?
39.
Yes, she admits on her website a screen play is in development and she is also looking for a publisher.
40.
If it is ONLY about publicity, it is curious she filed her lawsuit in Beaumont (a well-known plaintiff’s paradise) instead of a media center like Houston. Beaumont didn’t seem to have much connection to the claim, but had an excellent chance of a larger verdict. The federal judge in Beaumont, though, has transferred the case to Houston.
38.
I think Walter is still knocking around over there.
#42 Rick
Walter may show up in this case if he can figure out how to make it into a class-action lawsuit designed to include every woman in history who ever worked for an overseas contractor.
18 years old and handing out prior sexual favors? Not good.
Also, the fact that she had breast implants at a young age will make some folks think she’s promiscuous. But promiscuity is not a green light nor a defense for rape.
If she was so willing, why the need to drug her?
After reading from the links etc on her site I must leave this one alone and see what comes of it. It doesnt look good. She is not the only woman claiming to be raped.
I have to wonder why the Government has failed to initiate a serious investigation for 2 years. There is no doubt that a complaint was made, assuming you believe Congressman and former Judge Ted Poe.
#47 trl3
The same reason all the other horror stories coming from this war aren’t investigated/publicized.
No question a report was made. KBR said in court papers it reported the incident to State Dept.
I am wondering, too, what has been done. After all, the government has prosecuted their own soldiers for things that happened in the heat of battle. Why wouldn’t they prosecute some civilian contractors for a presumably premeditated crime?
This is all very weird.
K-Roger,
You just told me that you aren’t lumping everyone in with the rapists, but you turn around and claim that there are horror stories that aren’t investigated or publicized?
Care to give an example?
I mean we all know about the rape and murder of the Iraqi girl by a group of US soldiers because they were tried, prosecuted, and thrown in jail. It was reported. However, that does not mean that our soldiers are committing rape and murder on a daily, weekly, or even monthly basis.
You can’t make blanket statements like Brian DePalma and expect me not to challenge them.
Now, this rape may have occured. I do not know. I may never know.
However, I do know that the vast majority of the soldiers and contractors overseas, in Iraq or elsewhere, would never commit such a crime.
Please stop portraying out soldiers and contractors as scum on Earth.
PS, if this girl was raped, I advocate castrating the bastards.
How about Pat Tillman?
This doesn’t smell right, two years ago? And finding out she did a favor for a supervisor? She is writing a book and a screenplay?
Halliburton BOOGA BOOGA!
She’s in it for the money. I remember being in the Navy during Tailhook. Man, you shoulda seen the complaints flying around. Every 18 yr old female that was sleeping with everyone on base was filing complaints as fast as they could write them. I saw a few good supervisors get hammered because some gal that could cuss a blue streak and whose legs were more open than the Mexican Border was now empowered with a ball point pen.
I don’t buy it….
Basara,
The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of evil in the world. The percentage of evil in any one particular area is directly related to the amount of “authority” (moral and otherwise) and “policing”.
Does that mean that people by nature are evil? No.
But when human beings are placed in stressful circumstances, their tendency to do evil increases.
“But when human beings are placed in stressful circumstances, their tendency to do evil increases.”
Prove that….
#52
Oh OK, so because there were some false accusations after Tailhook makes this girl’s story false? Nice logic. Mr. Spock would be proud…not.
So how do you explain her injuries?
#54
East LA, Fifth Ward in Houston, Bronx, Sudan, Iraq etc. etc. etc.
Lawsuit filed in Beaumont, book and movie deal in the works.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
However, just to cover my butt, if she is telling the truth, I will be in front of the line in favor of castration or death after torture.
I had a friend at HPD accused of raping several prostitutes. Chief Bradford even had a press conference and came just short of calling him a serial rapist. He was injured on duty in a car accident and had been off recuperating with a broken leg during the time the “rapes” occured. It should have been cleared in about ten minutes of the accusation being filed. But the accusation sounded good enough. They did a complete investigation and cleared him 6 months later. They never filed on the prostitutes that lied.
So victims are supposed to just shut up and be quiet forever?
How else should she publicize this so she can maximize awareness of the problem?
It’s a Catch-22. She’s damned-if-she-does and damned-if-she-doesn’t.
#51 K-Roger
The good is always the enemy of the perfect for the intellectually dishonest and ethically lazy. There have been more than one million personnel serve in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last five years. Additionally, this has been the most regulated, rule-bound, legally constricted war in the history of mankind, not to mention the most investigated. Got any more tricks up your sleeve, pal ?
56. Maybe you should say that when evel [eople are placed in stressful situations, the tendency for them to do more evil intensifies.
Consider the Jews in the concentrations camps. I would think that, using your logic, murders of Jews by Jews would have been rampant.
To set a more recent example, I think the George R. Brown and Astrodome would have been a hotbed of murder and rape during the weeks after Katrina.
And by the way, no actual murders or rapes were reported in the Superdome either.
“East LA, Fifth Ward in Houston, Bronx, Sudan, Iraq etc. etc. etc.”
How does one’s geography make them do evil?
This isn’t proof.
Everyone in the green zone is so stressed out, therefore they ought to be slaughtering each other in droves, it ain’t happening grocery man. Most over there are professionals and able to handle stress. I’ve been in plenty of stressful situations as had many of my coworkers. We didn’t do evil. Maybe you might do evil under stress, but I can keep a pretty cool head.
Make that evil people instead of “evel [eople”.
(Old guy just can’t type without looking at the keyboard.)
“So victims are supposed to just shut up and be quiet forever? ”
Just the ones with a screenplay in production before the case gets to trial.
I remember seeing the show Ghost Hunters once and they were investigating the Lizzie Borden house. They didn’t find a ghost. One of the crew said: “Never trust a haunted house with a gift shop.”
How about changing the title to the “Alleged” Assault of Jamie Lynn Jones?
So, who will play her in the movie? Lindsay Lohan? Kirsten Dunst?
Who will play Dick Cheney? Ned Beatty?
Haliburton has deep pockets.
I have jumped on the Faster gravy train.
Never trust a haunted house with a gift shop.
Cool.
Did Dick Cheney rape her? I bet that will be in the screenplay though. Will they call him to testify?
Think they can have a role for Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin and Ben Afflek? Robert Redford could direct.
65. Faster
Dub Taylor could play Dick, but I think he’s dead. How about Abe Vigoda. Is he still dead?
As of December 11 2007 12:42:08 PM PT, Abe Vigoda is still with us!
http://www.abevigoda.com/ffb.php
Ned Beatty as Dick Cheney….
Oh.. I already said that…
How about Dick Cheney as Dick Cheney? He’ll be out of a job soon.
#60
So the fact there are only a few bad apples makes it right?
70. Faster
Tom must’ve helped him out for old times’ sake after all.
k-rodger #56
They are not committing evil acts because of their stressfull circumstance, They are using their so called stressful circumstance as an excuse to commit evil acts.
#74 K-Roger
Makes exactly what right ?
You’ve already convicted the Halliburton-Blackwater-McDonalds Triumverate in this case.
“So the fact there are only a few bad apples makes it right?”
There’s no proof the apple is bad, but I know a worm when I see one. She might be right, but a lot of it sounds like crap to me.
Halliburton BOOGA BOOGA!
trl3
Good people sometimes do bad things when placed in certain situations. That’s why we have terms like “mob mentality”, “temporary insanity”, etc.
So why does Halliburton insist on arbitration?
So, everyone working in Iraq is part of a mob? Or is temporarily insane, I doubt that.
Way to stay impartial Faster. You almost pulled me in with the mob mentality. I bet when the facts come out its gonna be one strange set of circumstances.
#81
Where did anyone say “everyone” working in Iraq is part of a mob or temporarily insane?
Try to focus on what people actually type instead of your personal spin and conjecture please.
“So why does Halliburton insist on arbitration?”
Because they can win? Wouldn’t you want to win? Guess they should roll over and admit fault?
#84
Oh, so forget the truth, it’s all about winning. I get it.
I do too. I don’t know if she was raped or not. But, it seems henkey to me. I’m not ready to just push Halliburton under the bus. I’ve seen this crap happen before and it don’t seem right to me.
Grocery man,
“The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of evil in the world. The percentage of evil in any one particular area is directly related to the amount of “authority” (moral and otherwise) and “policing”.
Does that mean that people by nature are evil? No.
“But when human beings are placed in stressful circumstances, their tendency to do evil increases.”
Pretty broad brush there Picasso!
85
What should they do? Intentionally go in a venue where they will get creamed? An accusation, no matter how good it sounds, does not make it true.
“Where did anyone say “everyone” working in Iraq is part of a mob or temporarily insane?”
Your post number 79
“Good people sometimes do bad things when placed in certain situations. That’s why we have terms like “mob mentality”, “temporary insanity”, etc.”
Also Bush Derangement Syndrome. That’s a term too…
Uh, did I say “all good people…” or “all human beings…”?
Talk about a broad brush.
Weak.
Next.
Halliburton Derangement Syndrome….
Oh please, you insinuate above that there are all kinds of crimes going on over there that are not reported. And that no one is publishing them or investigating them. Bull Crap! You infer that the troops and contractors are an unruly mob. That they kill rape and murder with no recourse. Prove it!
K-Rog.
Why does Halliburton want arbitration?
Let me count the ways:
1. They stand a better chance.
2. Assuming she is being truthful, Halliburton will need to protect their interests. They would certainly want to avoid a media circus. I would.
3. Assuming she is making this up. See #2. Avoid a media circus.
4. Courtroom battles are expensive. Either way, bogus charges or real crime, a lawsuit is extremely expensive.
And besides, I don’t think that one can sign away one’s right to not be raped. I bet if this does go to arbitration and she loses that she will still sue.
“Uh, did I say “all good people…” or “all human beings…”?”
No because in your mind, good people would not go over there and work for an evil corporation like Halliburton in the first place. Well, except for this poor girl who was lured over there!
It might make a good movie for the Frustrated Woman Channel (Lifetime).
#94. I always wondered what FWC stood for on my channel guide for Lifetime.
Thanks.
People, don’t rush to judgement. Anybody remember the Duke Lacrosse kids.
96
But Duke doesn’t have the same stank of EVILNESS as HALLIBURTON! MWUAHHAAHAHA! (as I stroke the cat in my lap)….
http://www.umich.edu/~quizclub/archives/2006/A4_Z.jpg
#97
No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die.
(Okay, I know that was goldfinger, but it was the best quote I could come up with)
Ted Poe kept silent, waiting for the justice department to do its work. Jamie requested that all be silent working through the justice system. She has a diary of the contacts she made, and her results. It’s obfiscation, delay, delay, delay. Edd was reading from her diary today. The rape kit was handed over to KBR security and disappeared. The doctors can testify to her injuries which were numerous. Finally after 2.5 years, putting up with delays like, he’s on vacation for two weeks. We’ve sent the file, but he doesn’t have time to look at it. blah blah. The only way to get attention is to take it to the media. So she has. After one day, and the press, you can see why she didn’t want this public.
Fasternu has a point, very few facts are available at this point and what is available points to a strange set of circumstances. I do believe something happened, I do think that an investigation should have been conducted and still should be.
However, I still remember the Duke case where many, including myself, originally assumed the players were guilty. Fortunatley the evidence was so strong that I changed my mind quickly.
As far as Halliburton wanting to use arbitration, that would be purely a business decision. It is the least costly way for them to proceed.
Don’t rush to judgement is fine. The woman had many injuries…. that’s a fact. She was freed from a container by the state department. That is fact. She was taken to a hospital, that’s a fact.
Regardless of the question of rape, an arbitration agreement between an employer and employee should not stop investigation of criminal activities such as being confined against your wishes.
American Women
All good points, all need to be answered. The answer I want the most right now is why our Government officials failed to conduct a proper investigation. Had a proper investigation been conducted many of the answers we ask now could have been answered.
I am worried now that no matter the outcome of an investigation one side will be crying foul with enough doubt to make their cries believable.
Ted Poe’s involvement lends lots of credence to me. I am willing to wait and see.
But something ain’t right. I’ll hold my real opinion, but I am not willing to burn down Halliburton (BOOGA BOOGA)
I remember being stationed overseas and this girl came into my room while several of us guys were in there drinking. She was hammered! She came in, passed out and I said.. Get her out of here, that ain’t nuthin’ but trouble. We carried her into the lounge and dropped her on a couch where the barracks watch was and he could keep an eye on her. Later, she was one of the Tailhook queens!
#74 K-Roger
“So the fact there are only a few bad apples makes it right?”
Not at all. By the same token, a few bad apples doesn’t mean that the entire basket is bad.
That was your point, that the contractors and soldiers are rapists and the media is ignoring it. I called you on it because that simply isn’t true.
On more thing: East LA? The Bronx? The Fifth Ward?
Wow, first contractors are evil rapists. Then soldiers are. Now, it’s minorities who rape women all the time. What’s your encore? Police officers? Fire fighters? Puppies?
bob42
No, they want arbitration in lieu of the civil suit filed. The Civil suit was filed, supposedly, because the young lady could not get a day in court through the criminal process.
I do not have a real problem with her wanting a civil trial or KBR wanting arbitration. What I have a problem with is the lack of a proper investigation into the criminal allegations.
#104
Ted Poe does have a lot of credibility, especially in criminal matters. I wonder why this was not investigated in a timely manner as it should have been?
I’ve testified in Poe’s Court. He runs a tight ship!
#105
Are more crimes committed by people in those areas or by people who live in say The Woodlands?
Geez, this is Sociology 101.
So, someone in the Woodlands raped her?
#110
LOL, this is like arguing with my girlfriend
K-Roger
Is it your claim that people living in the woodlands have less stress than people living in 5th ward?
#106 Agreed. I’m more curious about why her complaints were met with what appears to be a runaround rather than a definitive investigation.
#111
Lose a lot of arguements with your girlfriend, You do?
113
Maybe they didn’t believe her? That’s why they didn’t take it serious.
But, I weren’t there…… so?????
#112 trl3
There are different types of stress. It’s easier to understand if you don’t look at a single definition for all people.
Also, we can add “desperation” as a factor also.
K-Roger
Before you pass yourself off as an amateur sociologist, try reading a few books by James Q. Wilson. Also, you must have taken debating technique lessons from Headshaker because he employs the same “move the goalposts, change the clock, switch the subject” tactics as you use.
K-rodger
So now we have move from “stress” as a major factor in why people do evil things, to “some kinds of Stress” cause otherwise good people to do evil things. And only the kind of stress poor people experience can cause some to do evil things.
I still believe that these people are mostly just evil to begin with and they are using the circumstance as an excuse for the evil they do.
It don’t matter texpat, we’re talking HALLIBURTON!!
BOOGA BOOGA
Mwuah-hah-hah
#118 trl3
I’ve seen this kind of muddled, addled attempt at reasoning many times before. They are no longer commenters on LST.
K-rodger
The vast majority of people living in communities you have named go about their lives everyday without doing any evil.
Some of the biggest sensational crimes reported recently in schools, businesses, etc. have been by poeple from “well to do” backgrounds. What is their excuse?
#118 trl3
There are many case studies about the effects of environment on “evil” or criminal behavior.
If these people are mainly evil to begin with, you’re saying they are not rehabilitatable, which we know is incorrect.
The 9-1-1 hijackers were from well to do families. Bin Laden was from a bazillionaire family. The guy in the church shooting this week, his father is a neurologist. Evil can happen to anyone, anywhere…
#117
I am thoroughly familiar with Wilson. In fact, you might consider this quote from an interview he did:
There should have been a bloodbath in the 1930’s (the Depression) with all them evil poor people.
#122
I guess that is why the Police keep having to arrest the same old people over, and over, and over.
Many of the police and the criminals get to know each other so well they are on a first name basis.
#125
Hey, whaddaya know:
http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe30s/life_26.html
It would be correct to provide a link for context.
Now, exactly, what does the quote from Wilson have to do with KBR employees in a camp in Iraq alledgedly drugging and raping a young woman ?
I’ll be back in a couple of hours. Out.
#126 trl3
Yes. See above re: Wilson (last sentence).
K-Roger #129
How would that account for the many that move to entirely different cities and still commit the same old crimes?
How does that account for the high recidivism rates in our prisons, those guys are theoretically prohibited from being around other criminal types. They choose to go back, they choose to continue the life, they choose to continue the associations. They choose this because they want to, not because they are forced too.
#130 trl3
All good questions. Remember, there are no absolutes. There are exceptions and special circumstances unique to each individual. Patterns are certainly identifiable, but only to a certain extent.
And there are inherently evil people are cannot be rehabilitated.
I think we agree for the most part, as long as we keep it in the proper perspective and not look at things so black and white.
#127
Man that was real blood bath evil stuff there.
ROTFLMAO