An enterprising LGF reader found a picture of the Honorable Dr. Ron Paul and a contributor at the Values Voters Presidential Debate in Fort Lauderdale on September 17, 2007. That’s Stormfront proprietor and $500 Ron Paul campaign contributor Don Black standing next to the good doctor. The dapper young white nationalist on the right is Don’s son, Derek Black. Guess they’re “Values Voters”.
UPDATE:
Lest someone says the picture is too dark here is an enhanced version.
Oh wait that may not be Don Black the White Nationalist?
Oh really? Whulp Click here for his Stormfront webpage.
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This is the same Don Black that Herr Doktor said he never heard of?
The troof about Ron Paul continues to come out.
The Paulbots can no longer claim there is no proof Paul ever met Black. I wonder what the next stage in their denial process is.
The spin on this one will be well worth tuning in.
To be fair, the picture was taken at a public forum. I suppose anyone could have walked up to him and had a picture taken.
Query: When do coincidences stop being such?
Obviously a Photoshop job by those obsessive whackos at LST !
Apparently Ron Paul (and every politician to be fair) needs to carry around a litmus test and perform background checks before he lets people take pictures with him or gives them an autograph.
Nah ecow, not every politician. Just the ones that openly welcome Nazi money.
My My Ron Paul(R)nee(L) is looking rather dapper don’t you think?
Look out Texpat, BahBah Ron(R)nee(L) may be sparkin for your dapper crown.
Listen, there it is in the background, the Vonage theme, woo who, woo who who, woo who woo who…
hamous,
Because all the others have only accepted money from perfect Utopian citizens, I’m sure.
Here is one with him in the same suit…
http://dakotasky.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/black2.jpg
Nat
Now that is funny.
I’m going to bend over backwards again to be charitable to Ron Paul (not that anyone ever gives me credit for it, but it’s the right thing to do, sigh).
Indeed, any knuckle-head can walk up to a candidate in a public forum and get their picture taken.
None of this would mean anything… IF there weren’t credible suggestions that Paul and his senior staffers have met with racialist activists in Virginia, and IF Paul and his campaign hadn’t just decided they’d keep clinging to known Nazi money, and IF they had issued a clear-cut, full-throated, “Holy Crap can you believe how he’s ripping them a new one?” condemnation of White Supremacists attracted to his campaign.
None of this would matter if he had done any of that 56 days ago.
Too bad no one warned him and suggested corrective action.
Oh, wait a minute– SOMEONE DID.
Again, because I love to… I told you so.
ecow - I haven’t seen any of the other candidates on camera saying they welcome his money. Just RP.
ecow– find a contribution and or pictures with any other presidential candidate from/with a Nazi. We’ll call on them to reject it and rebuke him. If they delay, we’ll blast them for it.
http://www.dontamend.com/BushPrinceKiss.jpg
What does this make W?
ecow– a toady for the Saudi royal family
don’t think you’ll find much argument about that here
I suppose if Don Black and his fellow Nazi’s sat on top of 85% of the world’s oil deposits, we’d have to be nice to them too.
Luckily they don’t, so we can loath and fight them directly.
Besides, the House of Saud already has the “Jew-hating Oil Tycoon” position filled
David,
I don’t care if they are a “Nazi” or not, there is a blurry line here. Whose definition of Nazi are we going to use? The Libs, Hillary Clinton’s, the truthers (I’m considered a Nazi to them)? This is a dangerous game to be playing. He’s an American citizen who still has the right to support any candidate he wants to.
Whose contributions do we start sending back next? What about the next guy who used to be a “nazi” but now he is some-what reformed? What happens when the crazy libs who call us all Nazi’s take over?
I’m sure Romney’s got a few polygamists that need a refund as well. Huckabee doesn’t have to worry as long as he still isn’t getting any donations.
When he gives his legally earned money to Ron Paul, he is expecting Ron Paul to use it for Ron Paul’s purposes.
Blurry line??? Oh, come on! The guy runs one of the premier white supremacist websites on the internet for pete’s sake. He’s married to David Duke’s ex-wife. If you can’t call this guy a Nazi you’re in need of professional help.
Using this logic we’re all communists supporters. We should reject their money and send all their products back to China.
hamous,
You just shifted the debate. I’m am certainly not going to argue that this man is not a Nazi. The blurry line is determining where this kind of attitude toward donations stops once it has been started!
Sorry ecow; I’m interested in making the world a better place, not passing the time engaging in mentally masturbatory “debates”.
If you can’t figure out who an actual Nazi is, how to judge them unfavorably and why they should be marginalized by society, the problem is yours, not mine.
Behold the magical awesome power of the racist!! All he must do to destroy anyone is stand next to him.
Ecow– using Google and what little bit I know about you from your registration, I’ve learned a little bit more about where you worship.
That is a good place, with good people. You are (or should be) better than the crap you’re writing here.
Do you think God Almighty has difficulty distinguishing between bigoted racists who hate His fellow children and people who just happen to disagree about public policy issues and call their opponents names?
Stop this. It’s unbecoming.
I have a picture of myself standing next to Dan Patrick. Prior to that photo Dan had no idea who I was.
Ya’ll have to do better than this.
Where are the photos of him having lunch, interviews, etc.?
Losers!
David,
Obviously I’m not interested in making the world a better place. I’m glad you admitted that you not interested in hearing opposing opinions, or engaging in discussion about them. It’s becoming apparent that this site has strayed into sensationalism. No doubt it’s good for a temporary traffic boost. I’m sorry that I interrupted your group orgy with my “masturbatory” debates.
Ruh Roh Photo’s !!
And now we have to redefine Nazi !
6 out of 22 post’s have to defend RP. Nope RP made a bad decision not to throw the $ 500.00 away. The “blurry line” is a bad judgement call. I do nat want my president to vote 25% on a bad judgement call.
RP does not get my vote.
All this energy to take down a nobody.
Good God
Dov
Ron Paul never had your vote.
Dj– I addressed your point in #14
For 500 bucks, Ron Paul could have ended all of this. Plain an simple. Give it back, denounce it, problem solved. It seems so easy to clear thinking people. BUT…he didn’t, GAME ON.
And I addressed it in #4. The Rombies get so rabid that they don’t read anything, just attack. Heck, I remember bigjolly posted a positive RP piece and they STILL attacked him. Ya can’t win for losing.
30
Nope
I always wait, judge, try to figure out the best person for the job and RP just eliminated any chance in my considerations. If he had done the wise thing and scorned the $ 500.00 it might have been different. He didn’t !
ecow– go to church and ask your pastor what he would do if a Nazi gave him $500 and then started boasting that he was supporting [NAME OF ECOW'S CHURCH REDACTED].
Based on my few personal encounters with your pastor, I doubt very much his answer would sound in any way like Ron Paul’s.
David,
Are we dropping down into low personal attacks now? What does my place of worship have to do with anything? What have I posted here that has degraded the people that I worship with? Do you find my written disagreements to be that offensive?
I’m here because I have seen things that I disagree with and that I am concerned about the direction this site has taken, along with the direction of KSEV, is that some un-noble cause? If my primary goal was to degrade this site, I could chose other means, but that has never been my goal. I’d rather see it be successful and reach as many people as possible for CLOUT and it’s clear message in Texas politics.
Maybe he is not a Nazi, maybe he does not have a picture of the Zieg Meister on his wall, maybe he is a simple ordinary racist, bigot, psychically challenged, white supremacist that belongs in a psych ward, one of JFK’s education camps, or in jail.
And
Those folks in the South that say that Flag in the picture doesn’t represent racism need to explain that to him or be guilty by neglect.
David,
What my pastor would do and what I would do is an entirely separate issue, for me, although it may not be for you.
Truth is none of this matters. The RP haters never stop hating and the defenders never stop defending.
BTW. Did they ever find that picture of a syringe sticking out of Roger Clemens arss pumping him full of male hormones?
Claims are nothing more than that….claims.
I think Ron Paul should make a vidoe tape of him wiping his butt with $500 then send it to LST.
#34
Bullsh-t!
To All:
I could not vote for Paul, but I hope he runs as an independent. Sometimes the folks just need to vent their frustrations and Paul looks like a good way for the disaffected express their feelings about the choices being offered by BOTH of the major parties.
I do not for a second think Ron Paul could win and I am amazed at how some folks get their knickers in a dither over a guy that might get 3-5% of the vote in a general election….Or am I underestimating the general pi$$-offed state of the electorate?
Simple
ecow– I’m not attacking you; I’m trying to appeal to your better nature. (Although it’s interesting that you perceive that as an attack.)
This isn’t a game. There are actual people on the other side of the compute screen you are looking at. We have loved ones. We prefer not to see them murdered by bigots.
If you can’t figure out who those people are, and what ought to be done with them, that bothers me.
DJ, last night you said Nazi money is better than fiat money ‘because it is backed by white hoods instead of jack boots’ tonight you are defending Derek Black, it appears your goal to protect the border has morphed into something much less noble.
simple, I hope he makes an independent run too. Based on the people I see supporting him, it’ll be a wash as to whether he hurts the Dems or Repubs. He’ll get 2% tops.
If you attend any public event where Ron Paul is, he takes a rediculous amount of pictures with tons of people that he knows nothing about. This photograph doesn’t really say much.
As for the “dinners”, well, in my opinion this article debunks that story. The resturant is two blocks from one of their campaign offices, and somebody did digging on the FEC reports to show that out of seven visits only one was on a Wednesday. Keep in mind that the source of that whole drama is from some guy who claimed the Columbine shooters were in his “cell”. The guy is a wacko who seeks attention.
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2007/12/20/occams-razor-and-ron-paul-tara-thai-expenses/
David,
[sarcasm]
Seriously, I wasn’t aware of the fact that this isn’t a game, and next you are going to tell me that number by my name isn’t my score?
[/sarcasm]
This is politics. There are very real consequences but people have different opinions, different ideas about how to get to where we need go, and different places they want to go.
Just like you may believe whole-heartedly that Ron Paul is the worst for the country, others of us (not necessarily including me) might believe that he may be the only and last shot we have at turning this thing around and sustaining a place where our kids are free, free to worship wherever they want, and free enough to make there own decisions.
We both agree that Nazi’s are evil, obviously, but we disagree with certain aspects of how they should be handled, and specifically in this particular case involving Ron Paul. It appears to me that you may be so white/black on this issue that now you are throwing me in with Nazi’s as if I believe what they do. If that is the case, you are very very wrong. Maybe we should just agree to disagree and leave it be.
I don’t understand why you would think that I believe it is a game, if I thought it was a game, I wouldn’t be here. I think this is as serious a topic as there is. We’re all aware that that the future of this country is currently on a delicate balance.
# 39 DJ
Truth is none of this matters. The RP haters never stop hating and the defenders never stop defending.
“BTW. Did they ever find that picture of a syringe sticking out of Roger Clemens arss pumping him full of male hormones?
Claims are nothing more than that….claims.
I think Ron Paul should make a vidoe tape of him wiping his butt with $500 then send it to LST”
He can’t. He already accepted it. Spent it. Used it. And the American Nazi Party helped him.
hamous,
He knows that and he won’t do it. Ron Paul has one shot, and that’s it. You are right about the democrats joining in. I seriously don’t think people realize how many young democrats / conservative democrats are aligned with him and are not getting polled correctly. I visit the unofficial/official sites of all major candidates and I can tell you that his following has a lot of them (and a few Nazis as well).
The theory is that if every nutball runs for president then the majority of the vote for a rational president will come from normal people, which would indicate solid support for the victor.
Nat
Lay down the bong bro. You arent making sense. The fiat money thing was a joke just like this story.
I would have given the money back. He just raised 6.25 million dollars. $500 is chump change.
Go Ron Paul!
Shoot me an email when ya’ll get the case cracker….a taped interview, pics, etc.
Now I am out of this pathetic circle jerk you call debate.
#46, bless your heart for bringing up the fact that this is politics. Ron Paul was 500 bucks away from from making a smart political move. Will you admit that this was an elementary political fumble? It would have been so easy to give it back.
Golden Adam - exactly.
karti,
I for one, appreciate the research.
Hamous, St. Thomas Aquinas is spinning in his grave
again.
It takes a pointy toed boot to get all those cock-a-roaches.
All of these RP supporters have twisted the 1st Amendment from “Nazis have a right to free speech” to “Everyone including Ron Paul is obligated to listen to them.” Even Paul believes that which tells me he’s not the authority on the Constitution he thinks he is.
Adee, indeed.
DanielJames Says:
December 20th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
#34
Bullsh-t!
Danieljames
I tried to keep this on a political debatable level however if you are incapable of doing so and have to attack me with 4 letter words I understand that you are incapable of expressing yourself with an understanding of the English language.
“Quote”
# 34 I always wait, judge, try to figure out the best person for the job and RP just eliminated any chance in my considerations. If he had done the wise thing and scorned the $ 500.00 it might have been different. He didn’t !”
What did I do to deserve your ridiculous offensive reply ? Nothing !
#51 Golden Adam
No, I will not. It may have been a bad move for some whom I believe would never have voted for him anyways.
Let’s put it this way. You know how it feels when your watching CNN or one of the big-3 “drive-by” networks take a cheap shot at the republicans, or your candidate. It feels just the same to me, the only difference is this time it came from the inside of the party.
If it actually comes out that Ron Paul supports the racist views, then that is entirely different. If Ron Paul is a Nazi and supports the Nazi party he should drop out now. Contrary to the popular belief around here, that hasn’t been proven.
The guy donated the money because he supports Ron Paul views, and the money will go towards making sure Ron Paul’s views get implemented. This would also become an endless game due to the 100,000 donations that came in during the quarter. Who is going to track every one of those, and who is going to write the litmus test and apply it to them all?
I would be saying the same thing if this happened to Huckabee, McCain, Romney, Guiliani, or Obama (I’ll never defend Hillary from anything).
ecow– I’ll give this another shot.
You claim to understand that Nazis are evil.
Fine. Please explain to me what YOU think the appropriate way to respond to them when they try to enter the public sphere should be.
Remember– we’re talking about evil here.
Dov,
I agree, it was overboard.
David,
Don’t vote them into a public position. If they do something that violates any law, let the judicial system handle it.
#59, Thank you. Keeping the donation and defending it on national tv was a crafty political decision. I can’t wait to see what Ron Paul has planned for his first days in office! He is a political mastermind! I wonder if Karl Rove knows he’s been out Wataburgered?
————————–
All of these RP supporters have twisted the 1st Amendment from “Nazis have a right to free speech” to “Everyone including Ron Paul is obligated to listen to them.” Even Paul believes that which tells me he’s not the authority on the Constitution he thinks he is.
————————–
That’s an gross twisted exaggeration. While there may be fringe extremists (like there are for every candidate), I believe the vast majority believe that “American citizens have a right to free speech”.
This reminds of the fact that it’s human nature to believe that we each are not extremists and don’t want to believe that we are. Therefore, we tend to paint others positions that we disagree with as being far more extreme, in order to place us in the middle. Everyone here should know, the libs do it to us all the time by declaring us to be part of
the far right wing, or calling us fascists.
David,
How do I make a quote block in Wordpress? The forum codes do not work here.
#63 Golden Adam
Personally, I don’t think it was crafty. I think he did all he could do with it, given the surrounding situation. I found this blog post that represents my viewpoint decently well.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/ron_pauls_thoughtprovoking_cho.html
#62 ecow
I emphatically disagree. We live in a litigious society already overly dependent on legalistic strategies to resolve conflicts. There are moral choices and stances to be taken without regard to tactical boundaries and statutes. Any group whose fallback position is “it wasn’t illegal” are doomed as members of a civilized people.
ecow
<blockquote>your text here</blockquote>
David,
While sitting here, I was thinking about it a bit more.
I believe people should be “judging them unfavorably and marginalizing by society” as you said, but when you get into the government itself playing that role, I believe that is dangerous territory. The best the government can do is try to come up with laws that constrain them without taking away the freedom we enjoy in America, and when they violate those laws, punish them. Going any further is too deep of a step into socialism for me to swallow at this time. All it would take is putting the wrong person in power and we could face the same consequences as Christians.
ecow - We all believe American citizens have a right to free speech, even American Nazis. Since you’re fairly new here you haven’t been through this debate as often, as with as many RP supporters, as some of us have. Almost to a man (there are very few women RP supporters that I can tell) their argument is Ron Paul should keep the Nazi money because even Nazis have 1st Amendment rights. THAT is twisted logic. Certainly Ron Paul has the right to keep it. And I have the right to rant about it. I only have one goal and that is to bring to the public eye as many scumbags like Don Black as I can. Ron Paul chose to become a part of that scene and he will either reap or suffer the consequences. I suspect it will be the latter. We’ve been told for nearly three months now “this story has no legs”. It seems to be growing some now.
#66 texpat
So your answer is, because we are already stripping away freedom, it is necessary to continue stripping away more freedom. That sounds like dangerous territory to me.
What happens when the majority decides that they don’t like you?
Also, no one here has ever suggested any legislative action to curb Nazis’ free speech rights. The only thing we’ve asked is that Ron Paul not accept their money. That would be consistent with Dr. Paul’s freedom of association. I’ll say it again, he’s lost a lot more good votes over this than Nazi votes gained.
hamous,
Wow, I must say. I agree with that statement (except the part of about RP suffering any consequences from this particular incident). If you feel the responsibility to report this (when the facts undeniable) to the public, then I’m right there with you.
That said, it’s not all about the message, it’s about how it is delivered. You delivered that response effectively (by my account), but this whole topic on this site has been spiked with a hint of sensationalism that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. One that I think can polarize the readers and did, in my case.
ecow, I think it’s already cost him support. I know this is anecdotal but there have been several commentors here who were considering him and have ruled that out now. He’s peaked at about 8% in NH, where he will do best, and is sliding now. We’ll see in a couple of weeks.
hamous,
It’s a bit scary to hear that people would vote or not vote for one candidate based on one donation that the candidate chose not to refund.
It far more probable to believe that the people that have an issue with this already had much bigger issues with that candidate.
Nazi votes? Go to one of his meet up groups before deciding that Nazi’s are the freedom loving American citizens that are supporting and represent that 100,000 other $50 donations that went to him this quarter.
hamous, all Americans do not think Nazis have the right to free speech, some Americans think they have the right to a psych ward, re-education, or jail.
hamous,
I’ll tread more lightly than DJ, but I just can’t believe someone decided their vote on this one little issue when other issues like the war on terror, the border, immigration, national security, outsourcing of jobs, falling dollar value, trade deficit, the loss of personal freedoms, and ever expanding ridiculous amounts of government spending (funded by China) are all turning into huge issues for this election.
,or pick another country to live.
NAT PIERCE,
Who is going to write the test to determine who is a Nazi and who isn’t? You’d better hope it’s not Michael Moore.
There’s actual people on the other side of this computer screen? OMG!
ecow, you have a blatant disregard of history and what a Nazi is.
I deny the simple supposition that by taking the money Ron Paul is somehow endorsing the ideas of racists or is in any way responsible for pushing their agenda. The fault here lies not with Ron Paul, who has taken money from scumbags and is actually putting it to good use, doing us all a favor in the process, but instead with those who commit the logical fallacy of seeing this whole event as a transaction rather than a donation.
The racists are idiots; Ron Paul has publically stated that he doesn’t want them to muddy the water, but he refuses to give back the money because to do so would be counter-productive to achieving the goals of freedom, tolerance, love and peace.
Almost everything I have seen on this issue is unsubstantiated straw-grasping gutter material. Most of it has been debunked or addressed. I feel that people should begin to let it go, but most seem to feel otherwise. At a minimum, please take the time to research it properly. I welcome any opposition materials that actually has substance, I’m somewhat open to being convinced, but I just haven’t seen anything substantive yet.
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2007/12/20/occams-razor-and-ron-paul-tara-thai-expenses/
http://onepeoplesproject.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=154&Itemid=27
Those who have professed such a belief would be a good start.
ecow - Its not just one $500 donation. It’s the fact that every neo-Nazi group in the country is actively campaigning for him. It’s that they all have RP donation banners on their websites. It’s that the 9/11 Troofers think he’s on their side. It’s that there are homosexual unitarians impersponating Jews (Jews for Ron Paul) claiming to support him. It’s the active support of the other dregs of society like pimps and prostitutes. It’s the fact that he will not disavow any of that support.
It’s his archaic world view and foreign policy that would be more at home in the 18th Century rather than the 21st. It’s his voting against earmarks before voting for them. It’s his inability to accomplish anything of substance in 20 years in Congress. This isn’t just about Don Black’s $500. That’s just the most outrageous example.
…yawn……..
#70 ecow
Let me see if I can make this a bit more simple.
A nation of free and liberty loving people have a body of laws to prohibit certain kinds of behavior which are harmful to its citizens.
Any people who depend solely upon those laws alone to govern their behavior are doomed to fail.
You imply that any actions not deemed illegal are perfectly acceptable and no one else’s business. I submit any society living by such a purely legalistic definition of human interaction is a corrupt one and cannot long prevail.
I make moral and ethical choices everyday in my dealings with other citizens and human beings. The legality or illegality of those choices never crosses my mind. I evaluate the righteousness of those choices and, hopefully, make the right decision. I sincerely believe you don’t live your life any differently.
NAT,
Please, I said nothing about history. I have been accused of being a Nazi on several other internet forums just because of my conservative Christian views. Different people from different backgrounds have strangely different views even on things that seem like they would be so easy to define. I almost guarantee you that I know a few liberals, truthers, or conspiracy theorists that would call you a Nazi. I’ve seen truthers call people Nazi’s for claiming the Pentagon was actually hit by a plane on 9/11.
This is the kind of silly crap that gets old. No one here has ever put forth that supposition. In fact, we’ve gone out of our way to say we don’t think that is the case. It’s been addressed at least twice in this thread alone, once by the proprietor. And yet some chucklehead comes in here and spouts this same old song every time.
RP, a man with a mission, will not get the Pubby nomination and he has more money than he can spend, I look forward to his third party candidacy.
What’s up mikey?
Hamous, he has denounced it…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gKXyBgr24c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqPhrqllHzY&eurl=http://www.rwned.com/
Wow.. all this mud slingin’ for a guy who’s not even going to get the (R) nomination. It would be quite amusing if he and McKinney would join up for a 3rd party!!
Imagine the troofers!
ecow - someone gave an illustrated example the other day (texpat, I think) that I think made his point clearly:
You can walk up to an old lady walking across the street and tell her she’s a dried-up old hag about ready to kick the bucket. You have the legal right to do that but that doesn’t make it morally right.
In my opinion, I think that asking somebody not to accept money, implies that very thing. Maybe it’s me who’s making the logically fallacy on that point, let me sleep on it. Didn’t mean to step on toes.
RP would never have been elected if anyone thought he was a Nazi supporter, the last Nazi supporter to represent this government was Joseph K. over half a century ago, and he was recalled in short order.
What is astounding is the number of self-conscious Nazis that come out to defend him.
Sorry karti, you just happen to be the latest in a long line of people to say that. I apologize. You’re new here and you haven’t seen how many times we’ve repeated the “We don’t think RP is a Nazi” line.
#85 texpat
I did imply that or at least intend to. When their actions interfere with other’s freedoms it is no longer no one else’s business. We have judicial system for settling these disputes. We have communities that can still shun these people and make them outcasts of society without taking away their rights as American citizens.
They have adulterated their rights to live in a civil society.
Yes, but since different people have different perspectives on Ron Paul’s decision to not refund the donation but denounce the man who donated, that example is hard to make relevant in my eyes. You see his choice as immoral, I see the man who donated as immoral but no the specific action taken by Paul, especially when considering all the lobbyist and foreign money used by all politicians.
While we’re talking about morally correct actions, lets check out this hypothetical situation:
If a known violent gang member handed you a gun a told you use it to protect yourself then later came back and said he needed it back, would you give it back, knowing he might use it to kill someone?
Ron Paul has a valid moral argument about returning the money.
I do believe that is exactly what we are trying to do.
If a known violent gang member approached me carrying a gun he would be in for a very big surprise. But your hypothetical falls flat. We suggested he donate the $500 to a worthy charity.
hamous,
It’s called making someone guilty by association. The reason you have to defend the “Ron Paul is not a Nazi” position is because it appears to be continuously implied in the sarcasm, jokes, and comments. When a site goes through so much effort to connect him to a known Nazi, and spends so little time getting to know who the real supporters are that actually made up the greatest part of the 100,000 that donated.
No, your not shunning the Nazi, you’re shunning Ron Paul for not refunding the Nazi’s money. That’s two totally different issues.
ecow - Actually, it hasn’t been much effort at all. And this would all be a moot point had Dr. Paul done what Reagan did with the KKK in 1980 - Publicly, strongly and unequivocally disavow any and all Neo-Nazi support. Had he made that statement most of the nazis would have quit supporting him.
And then by this logic, the charity should not accept the Nazi’s money because it is dirty money and they should do what with it…? give it another charity?
#102 - No, that’s not right. We’re asking Ron Paul to join us in shunning the Nazis. So far he has refused to do so. If anyone is responsible for erroneously linking Ron Paul and Nazis it is Ron Paul.
#104 - There is an element of perception involved here that you seem to be missing. Ron Paul is running for the office of President. Accepting Nazi money is perceived as a bad thing, for all the obvious reasons. If he disavowed that support and donated the money to something anti-Nazi, like a Holocaust museum, that would be perceived as a moral thing to do. Ron Paul looks like a good guy and probably gets a lot more support. A Jewish organization has $500 of a Nazi’s money to spend on a worthy cause, and the Nazi looks like the fool that he is.
Of course it is guilt by association. That is exactly what we are talking about here. It is a perfectly legitimate accusation to make and I, for one, make no bones about it. It is what it is.
And I propose a society governed by your rules (or lack thereof) would be grim, bleak and inhuman, somewhat like Golding’s Lord Of The Flies.
…or East Germany
texpat,
I’m not running President, but thanks, I’ll take it as a compliment.
Well I think we can add ecow to the list of sane RP supporters. We get so few of those here it is refreshing. I suspect he’s young and idealistic and only sees the good in Dr. Paul. Nothing wrong with that. But hang around here with these old farts for very long and we’ll whip that out of ya ; - )
G’nite folks. Slumber calls.
hamous,
Ron Paul shunned the Nazi, however, he did not give the money to charity. Like I said before, who is going to waste time going through all 100,000+ donations checking for the other Nazis and donating their money. Who is going to do the same for all candidates? Since this is such an important issue to you guys, it must be done.
#110 hamous
We may accumulate enough to have a good poker game before it’s all over.
Good night. I’m done for the evening.
#106 Hamous
I thought he was running for Playmate of the Year…oops
Except for the precedent it sets in terms of having to follow up on all donations and the damage it does to free speech. If Don Black decides to give money to Cancer research, the salvation army, the swift boat veterans, moveon.org, or mcdonalds, he should be allowed to. It’s his money to spend. It is a form of free speech and I don’t think any of those organizations or fast food restaurants should be forced to give it to someone else because that guy “doesn’t” have a right to free speech.
So basically Ron Paul should start spending money on things outside his campaign depending on who donates. When a politician starts asking me what my views are in order to accept my donation, I see that as discrimination. If we need politicians who do something than they say their going to do then we should continue to elect the Bush family (or Huckabush might be an adequate replacement).
#110 Hamous
Sane RP supporters? Is that possible here?
I hope so. I’ve enjoyed the discussion. I’ve been deeply loyal to listening to KSEV since I moved back to the Houston area. I met Dan in person once before I ever knew anything about him or the station, and it is his show than won me over from the “dark” side (950). I’ve brought several people over with me including my wife. When this site was announced, I thought about seeing if I could contribute in some form(I work on websites as a hobby, some of which David probably found if he googled deep enough). It’s the fact that you can have real conversations, about real issues that matter to us Texans, that keeps me around.
I may appear to be disrespectful, but that’s probably the emotion leaking out, I do respect everything said here and am always looking to learn or gain a new perspective.
Contrary to popular belief on this site, my support is not fully behind Ron Paul. It could more accurately be described as a three-way balance between Paul, Romney, and Huckabee, all of which have gigantic flaws, but a gnat might land throw the balance in a new direction.
I’m not quite sure what the definition of young is but I guess I’ll take that.
It may be something skewed from the lines of this old adage:
“If you are young and conservative you have no heart, and if you are old and liberal you have no brain”
…except I have no idea because I have never been liberal that I am aware of…only a mix of conservative and libertarian…so I’m not sure how that fits into the adage.
I have trouble sleeping, so it’s a good thing I started my vacation already! The insomnia is also my excuse for my non error free posts.
I should try to sleep so that don’t ramble as much. Good Luck to both of you…cya tomorrow
Well might this young whuppersnapper interject that nobody is asking RP to go through ALL his donations to find which ones are from Nazis but since someone did the homework FOR him and pointed it out, he could just take care of the ONE STINKING DONATION?
Nice closing comments ecow, you are definitely one of the nicer RP fans.
Night to you too ecow. Sleep well.
quackbox,
I’m not gone yet! Sorry had to use the “quackbox” name again for some reason.
Some late night humor from ronpaulforums.com (yes I go there)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=62327
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=62239
…and the Ron Paul racist donation poll:
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/20/hot-seat-disreputable-donors/?ncid=NWS00010000000001
Hopefully, my last encore of the night…and this one should make you all proud.
Ron Paul didn’t effectively shun Don Black, but his campaign did shun “Air Force Amy”…
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=83665295-1de6-4571-af9c-0a90f6d1fde0
It is not Thursday It is Friday
Peaceful. No politics intended. 4 more days and it is Christmas. May all of you/us celebrate. To all of my Christian Friends….. Merry Christmas
#121 ecow
Ron Paul may have shunned Air Force Amy, but Tucker sure didn’t. He forgot to include the photo with his TNR story.
http://picasaweb.google.com/TheVoicebox1700/TheVoiceboxPics/photo#5136488186889904722
I don’t know why this is such a difficult concept for seemingly intelligent people to understand. It does absolutely no damage to free speech. Freedom of speech does not come with a companion right of mandate to be listened to. Giving money to a political candidate is free speech. That right does not guarantee the acceptance of that money by a candidate. No laws need to be enacted. No constitutional rights need be abridged. I don’t particularly care if all donations can be identified (although with minimal effort many could). A public statement disavowing the support would suffice. I don’t expect it from RP, though, which is why he’s just another sleazy politician hiding behind the facade of constitutional champion.
# 120 ecow
From the article:
“The constitutionality of a central bank is not an issue you see on many lists of voter concerns.”
THAT’S why I support Ron Paul. Not because he’s going to be nominated, but because NO ON ELSE is going to even broach such issues. Many people are learning about our farce of a monetary system for the first time when they hear him.
Money should constitutionally be issued under the auspices of the elected Congress, not loaned to us (with interest) by a largely nonaccountable private central bank system.
Doesn’t anyone else have a problem with this?
little mike , I’ll confess my eyes glaze over when y’all start talking about central banks and fiat money. I haven’t studied much about it. I do know a couple of things, though. Except for a brief period in the 19th century we have had a central banking system since 1791. I also know that a man that has accomplished absolutely nothing legislatively after 20 years in Congress has very little chance of changing it.
When LST embarked on their latest episode of self aggrandizing mental masturbation someone pointed out the obvious timing of their effort.
So did a few other Reasonable sites.
I don’t recall if this is the fourth or fifth time LST has resurrected this dead horse just so they could beat it (and their uh.. chests) again.
When ya’ll get tired of this silliness, perhaps you could direct your investigative skills into where Paden is getting all the cash to run his ad here.
For the congressional campaign, Paul is outraising Paden by 80:1.
The only timing involved in this round of “self aggrandizing mental masturbation” is that the story popped up when it did. We have been consistent as to when the cialis and viagra has kicked in.
Sixth, but who’s counting.
And we haven’t found any photos of Peden socializing with white supremacists.
blah blah blah…
Go Ron Paul!
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/whitesupremicistisisraelishill.php
Atleast someone is trying to put the pieces together. If ya cant beat e’m trash e’m.
Later
LST hasn’t found any photos of Paul socializing with white supremacists either. You’ve been pumping out anti Ron Paul propaganda for so long, you’re starting to believe your own lies.
Smear, Smear Again
Gee, maybe if Chris Paden actually stood a chance, he’d have people crowding in for photo-ops too. (But we’ll probably never know.)
Daniel, please tell me you didn’t just post a link to “What Really Happened” as a legitimate investigative story.
Other WRH “investigative” stories: The London 7/7 train bombings were really government planted real bombs disguised as fake bombs disguised as real bombs and the bombers were poor Muslim patsies for Tony Blair and the NWO.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/london_exercise_video.html
# 126 hamous
“little mike , I’ll confess my eyes glaze over when y’all start talking about central banks and fiat money. I haven’t studied much about it.”
Just as I figured, you haven’t done your homework.
sigh.
little mike - just as I figured you didn’t address the rest of my comment.
sigh.
Mike, let’s assume we went back on the gold standard, significantly decreasing the money supply. Wouldn’t interest rates soar, making expansion prohibitively expensive for business? Wouldn’t this constrain economic growth?
Daniel’s pointy white hat keeps slipping over his eyes.
Ron Paul has shown his deficiency in an area very important for a president - judgment. His and his campaign’s complete oblivion concerning the likely reaction to accepting Nazi money (and then compounding the problem by defending a idiotic decision to keep the money) shows he should not be entrusted with a position of real responsibility.
#124 hamous
I disagree. Maybe it’s because I have been following Ron Paul for quite a while now, but I believe it’s counter to his freedom message for him to deny any American citizen the right to donate to his campaign and support Ron Paul’s ideals. The line for me is if the money itself was obtained through dirty means such stolen money or drug money.
#124 hamous
Maybe we didn’t watch the same interview but he obviously said the guy was wasting his money and shunned the guy when asked. He also make’s a good point about this guys donation already having been used before this was issue was raised, so then he would be taking someone else’s donation and throwing it to charity when they did not intend for it to go there.
But money — even worthless fiat money — is fungible. Ron Paul got at least $500 of dirty Nazi support. He should repudiate it to the tune of at least $500.
Or are you claiming that the Ron Paul campaign — which can’t be troubled to vet every contributor — nonetheless keeps a strict FIFO record of each particular dollar?
Obviously, this should set up alarms in your head about who controls our government. Ron Paul does try to write and pass laws. You guys should check some of them out because I believe you enjoy quite a few of them that don’t relate to wars in Iraq. He has no corporate agenda, he is not going to offer support for bills that his disagrees with. People know he is or is not going to support their bill regardless of whether or not the support his.
It’s really not hard to see how this happens. We should ask the people who continue to elect him into office why they continue to do it since he obviously is some sort of worthless politician?
Surely they’re not just electing him because he does what he says he’s going to do and sticks his ideals. What a scumbag.
#142 Matt
No, what I’m saying is if this guy donated in August and the money was spent I don’t want my $100 donation in December to go to help a Jewish charity because that’s not why I donated.
#136 hamous
Sorry but I have to declare that little mike wins this one. He comment easily covered your whole post. There are several Ron Paul speeches out there on youtube and in various places that have addressed that topic. I wish I had the time to go find them, but I don’t at this moment. I know, because I’ve had the same thoughts and had the same questions asked, but I can’t explain it the same as hearing it from Ron Paul.
ecow, we obviously draw our moral lines in different places. I’ll keep bringing this issue up each time new information is discovered and you can keep defending Ron Paul. I do appreciate you not resorting to the typical Rombie strategy of “Shut up you idiot f ing moron!”
# 137 Matt,
I’m not an econ genuis, nor do I play one on TV, however, my main beef is not necessarily with “fiat” money - a one for one relationship to a precious metal is too simplistic and would constrain econ growth.
My main issue is that money should be issued under the auspices and under the eyes of our elected officials as prescribed by the U.S Constitution.
Good basic easy reading book on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/WEB-DEBT-Shocking-Sleight-Trapped/dp/0979560802
Exactly. There’s also a second picture that shows Paul autographing a program or something for Black’s son. It was clearly an event where people were simply walking up to him to get things signed or snap a quick photo. In fact, the same guy who took that picture also posted several other pictures of the same debate.
It’s fundamentally dishonest to suggest that Paul should have known the identity of a random voter who walked up to him at a public event and asked for a photo.
Drop the fake moral outrage, Rick. It’s getting tiresome. The simple reality here is that you would not have been satisfied with Paul’s response no matter what he did with the Black donation. From day 1 even before the Black donation was discovered, you’ve used the stormfront stuff as a vehicle of convenience to bludgeon Paul’s candidacy not because it actually outrages you or betrays good judgment, but simply because you don’t like Ron Paul.
If you don’t like Ron Paul that’s fine with me, and simply say it. But spare us the lofty sounding proclamations of your own self-righteous indignation at a campaign you never intended to support under any circumstances anyway.
#137 -
Depends entirely on how they transitioned. It is entirely concievable to implement a gold or other commodity-based monetary policy over a staggered period of several years to soften the market’s absorption of a tighter monetary policy.
The other factor that also gets left out of the equation is the effect of our current monetary policy on the savings rate in the United States. Savings is abysmal today, and a century worth of inflationary policy coupled with tax code disincentives on savings and a phony handout programs like Social Security has made it so. And if you want to know what that does to the U.S. economy, look at our current trade balance with the world and our dollar’s strength abroad.
I agree with you on the tax disincentives and entitlements, but I disagree that our current and recent inflation rates have held back the savings rate.
The savings rate isn’t low because people are worried about inflation eating up their savings. Indeed, most people don’t even get that deep into thought when considering their spending. It’s low because people are undisciplined, and they want an HDTV and a new Suburban right now.
#151 - Being able to buy a HDTV and a new suburban is certainly part of it, but the fact that holding money subjects the person saving it to a nearly certain future of inflation is indeed a long run deterrent to a stable savings rate. We’ve had nearly a century of inflationary policy in the United States, and though it looks like a couple percentage points every year it’s the aggregates that really show its dangers.
To put it another way, people don’t spend beyond their means simply because they want a flat screen on credit. Nor do they spend simply because inflation will zap their savings, or because interest is too low to turn up ahead on savings, or even because present consumption is percieved as cheap. But they do spend beyond their means as a result of an aggregate of those things, and nearly 100 years of virtually continuous inflation is a certain deterrent against holding dollars in the long term.
Another way of thinking about it: If we had a stable monetary policy that underwent periods of mutual adjustment in both directions (inflationary and deflationary) as existed for the first 100 years of U.S. history, people would recognize an economic gain to be had from holding money in certain years and spending it in others. They would adjust their spending according to the continuous but cyclical fluctuations of the currency, with market forces serving as a self-correcting mechanism that more or less balances out in the end.
When policy only goes in one direction, that is to say certain and constant inflation, the recognition of economic gain from a change in spending habits, be they more or less, disappears. When the monetary policy only goes in one direction spending habits have only that direction to follow.
Matt,
Read the article I posted by Tucker. It covers Ron Paul position on the gold standard and talks about how we was converted by Ron. He doesn’t think that the dollar should be 1 for 1. I’ve heard him say it could be 5% vested and still make a significant impact because it would prevent it from being printed without an associated cost, which would make it less inviting for government to do it.
He also believes in allowing competing currencies, and all capitalism to decide which one is managed correctly. You could leave the dollar where it is, but introduce a new currency that is tied to gold. People could then choose to keep their holdings in the currency that is being managed responsibly.
Dueling Dollars. Sounds like fun.
If they guessed right, that is.
It’s certainly a predictive trend, but it is sounder than simply guessing right. Virtually all of our commodities and futures markets are built around educated predictions of this exact same type, and by and large they work out just fine. Same goes for money…if the government would only stop trying to manipulate its value.
Very true. But put Joe Blow into a commodities or futures market, and he’ll lose his shirt.
But put Joe Blow into a commodities or futures market, and he’ll lose his shirt.
On his own, yes. But that’s why the Joe Blows of this world hire brokerage and trader firms to handle their investment portfolios. There’s no reason why they couldn’t do the same with the money supply.
Don Black is an ex-felon, failed Ku Klux Klanner who ended up with David Duke’s “sloppy seconds” for a wife. He’s also a pathological Neo-Nazi whose support of Ron Paul is as warped as his website and the sycophantic lemmings who lick the putrid dribble of his Hitler-loving salivations.
I urge all sane pro-white supporters to leave the Don Blacks and the child-drooling Kevin Alfred Stroms in the past and read “Hold Back This Day”, the foremost pro-white novel in the world today, written by the leading WN thinker on the planet.
Ward Randolf Kendall
author of “Hold Back This Day”
An early historical example of guilt by association:
While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” came and ate with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ’sinners’?”
On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. (Matthew 9:9-11)
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