Interesting debate last night on ABC/Facebook from New Hampshire. I didn’t care much for the format but the pundits that think presidents should act and talk like policy wonks sure did. Most of them are raving about the format. Of course, most of them sip lattes and pontificate about things that don’t matter to the average Joe or Jane.
For those of us that care about day to day living, there was much to be desired in a format that featured the questioner almost as much as the questioned. The online polls taken immediately after the debate showed that the candidates never really talked about that which matters most to most people (that aren’t sitting around sipping lattes and pontificating). It’s the economy, stupid.
So, I’ll have to pretend I’m a latte sipper and pontificator and see if I can grade these guys from memory because for the first time, I didn’t take notes. Feel free to correct factual mistakes and go ahead and insult me for having an opinion different than yours. As someone once said, if people are kicking you in the rear, you’re still the Hanukkah king.
- Duncan Hunter - Well, Duncan didn’t have a real good night. You see, ABC decided that he didn’t meet the threshold of support for inclusion in the debate. Can’t say I fault them for that but I do think he would have done very well in this format.
- John McCain - A - Did what he needed to do. Attacked Mitt Romney and was able to fluster him, calling him the real agent of change, a slap at Mitt’s flips. Spoke fairly eloquently about his values. Argued that he was never for amnesty - Mitt got so flustered at one point that he actually said that his ads never claimed that McCain did support amnesty. Probably enough to confuse people about his actual position, which is most certainly that he favors amnesty. Except that now it isn’t amnesty. Or something like that.
- Mike Huckabee -A -Attacked Mitt Romeny and was able to fluster him. Which was his goal, not for New Hampshire (apparently they are all atheists there) but for South Carolina and beyond. Excellent demonstration of why he is the only one with a clue about health care. Minor slips in trying to explain his “arrogant bunker mentality” line and when he said that he supported the surge before Mitt. But they were minor and he accomplished his main goal, hitting Romney. Especially liked the line when Mitt told him not to mis-characterize his position and Huck asked him, which one? Highlighting Mitt’s flips, of course.
- Mitt Romney - F - Terrible performance. Didn’t help himself at all. This is the king of negative ads and direct mail, whining about McCain and Huckabee making jokes about his flips. Even Fred dissed him. Ron Paul got under his skin. Not good.
- Ron Paul - B - I thought he did okay, although my wife kept asking me who he was and why he was included. His base of anarchists and riff-raff will still support him but I don’t think he did anything beyond that. His illustration about oil prices, gold and paper money was most excellent, especially given the time constraints. Alas, I doubt many people will understand it.
- Rudy Giuliani - B - I don’t think he hurt himself and he was able to gig Mitt, which was everyone’s goal in this one. He sounds so good when talking about national security and foreign policy but when he talks about his core values, well……….
- Fred Thompson - B - He didn’t hurt himself and may have even stirred his base into donating but I didn’t think his performance was all that great. He too managed to gig Mitt, as well as gigging Ron Paul. I’m sure that there will be pundits talking about moving to his campaign now that Mitt is in a tailspin but it’s hard for me to imagine that people are excited about him. One thing that got on my nerves was when he talked about the need for us to stop mortgaging our children’s future when his very own economic plan focuses only on tax cuts and doesn’t address spending. But, his supporters will ignore that because, well, tax cuts, you know?
Now, to get ready for another round tonight, this one without the honorable Dr. Ron Paul. I think Fox is wrong to exclude him, especially in a state where the good Dr. has a legitimate shot to come in ahead of Huckabee, Thompson and Giuliani. In fact, I’d be surprised if he doesn’t come in ahead of at least one of those guys, each of whom gets to participate tonight. But then again, no one said life was fair, did they?
UPDATE: Okay, I’m getting a lot of grief about this:
New Hampshire (apparently they are all atheists there)
Folks, that was sarcasm about the way the media and punditry has portrayed New Hampshire as so secular that the theocrat (also in their minds) Huckabee doesn’t have a chance. See the comments for links and quotes about that. I’ve no doubt that the fine folks of New Hampshire are every bit as non-atheistic as I am.
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56 Responses to “Grading the Repubs - Part Ten”Search
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I think Huckabee is chipping away at his own likeability factor - I was surprized to see his meter ratings falling until I saw why
He was getting mean and nasty - like Al Gore Did- and according to this meter hurt him
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/01/tnr-gets-it-rig.html
I mean all Romney would have had to reply to Mike was to say “are you still getting advice from John Bolton?”
http://www.google.com.qa/search?hl=en&q=Huckabee+John+Bolton&meta=
I’m sure this was just another misstatement like the dozens of others?
This time pick your story
Fred’s numbers are down in Florida, Iowa, NH, and other states because he’ cutting social security big time
But thats just the Lawinorderhelplessness in me talking
I was curious - where is Mike addressing cutting spending?
That’s an intersting judgement? Why do you say this? Because “New Hampshire” did not just jump right onto the “I like Revrund Mike” band wagon?
It’s a joke, Mr. Squawk. All the news outlets and pundits are saying that Huckabee won’t do well there because it is a more “secular” state.
Geez.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/01/06/fred-after-false-withdrawal-rumor-i-owe-media-nothing
Huckabee? Rollins? Hmmmmmm?
Here’s one, The Weekly Standard:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/CampaignStandard/2007/11/barnes_huckabees_new_ad.asp
“Mitt Romney - F” The two best politicians in my lifetime (Nixon and Clinton) would have received F’s had they been ganged up the way Romney was. But I did get a chuckle out of those jabs from FT and McCain.
And another:
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080104/NEWS03/801040383
And another:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/11/30/huckabee_hopes_for_new_hampshire_boost/
And another:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmIwNjNjNTU4NDRkNjM1ODJiOTQ5NzE2MTM0MTViZmQ=
I must like lattes more than I thought, because I thought this debate format was the best thus far. I’m still holding out for the Lincoln-Douglas style that Fred has asked for (and then ducked out of).
I didn’t think Huck performed as well this time around - seemed a little less confident than before. I wonder if he was more willing to take risks on his way up, and now is going to be playing it safe.
Mitt came across as very defensive and unlikable to me. He was also a little condescending at times. That was a flat lie about his McCain attack ad not mentioning amnesty.
RP made some good points, but was also typically nutty. Giuliani seems to be sitting on the outside hoping for others to implode - he hasn’t been making much of a push of late and was pretty quiet in this debate.
The biggest surprise to me was McCain. He came across as extremely practical and very well informed on every issue. His experience really came through in this one.
So that makes all New Hampshire folks atheist simply because the MSM says so? They are atheist because the don’t make the “R” after Huckabee into “R”evrund?
secularism ≠ atheism
And another:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7748.html
BigJolly
You called an entire state a bunch of unbelievers in your
Huckabee commerical number 946- I mean thought provoking, enformed and entertaining post on the candidates debateBut I’m laughing on the inside HAHAHAHA - and so are the atheist directors in these organizations as well
http://www.directorynh.com/NHAssociations-Organizations/NHCharitableOrganizations.html
And sarcasm ≠ “judgmental”.
BigJolly
If it sounds like omthing I would have written - don’t write it its not you-its not Huckabee, McCain will have his day and then the Amnesia by the Mainstream media will lift and McCain will get both Barrels of the - gee I forgot about my sordid past - obligator shotgun blast in the pus
And then Huckabee and Rudy can say welcome to the party pal in the Columbia debate next week
Lets all play
Bolton ≠ “drop Dead Mike and stop sending me emails” or does it?
Attack ads ≠ “hey where’d you find THAT!”.
And ClubforGrowth ≠ “SATAN”.
I thought Huckabee did well by being aggressive. I believe he will do well everywhere.
Admittedly he does not deny being Christian, but there are a lot of folks that claim to be Christian in the USA. Some may vote for Huckabee just to spite the God mocking media jerks.
McCain showed his true lying dog colors—lying about amnesty/Z visas. He like Bush/Rove think we are all blithering idiots! –but we are not stupid enough to be sucked in by him after Bush, Kay bailey and Perry have conned Texans
Bannable
Jolly is not the subject of this thread. you have your choice of 7 candidates to pick on. Move along to one or more of them.
I might have to start up the COW™ posts again. You win the “getzit” for the week.
TEX06
Day one after McCains NH win the media will tear McCain apart for two reasons
One - its good clean family fun
Two - He deserves it
Huckabee is a populist and it saddens me that “conservatism” has been watered down to where that is acceptable to some who are conservative.
22
Sorry misconstrued this line
But I’m on to McCain - Mikes had his 15 and without a place in NH and no money his 15 is up
Squawk
Huckabee had a chance to make the case for populism in a conservative bent and he would be at 50% in the polls and sweeping this thing
but he chose to lie, pander, lie, pander - well you get the picture
Hold on, BJ. I’m still working on my really clever insult.
Methinks a lot of people confuse the terms Republican, conservatism and libertarianism.
#21 TEX06
That may well be true, but it still doesn’t constitute a valid and responsible reason to vote for a candidate. One of the problems with the presidential race is people get their personal identities wrapped up in their political thinking so logic and reason are the first casualties.
Republican ≠ conservatism
Especailly when the “R” is behind the name Huckabee
secularism = freedom from higher authority = moderate = libertine = atheist - their politics are about the same…
Mitt looks better all the time, he was doing fine until the last half then they jumped him, Mitt never lost his train of thought and McCain’s and Thompson’s self-satisfying insults did them no good.
Sorry BJ, if Huck ever had a chance, well, it will only be by Providence he wins.
McCain ≠ conservatism
Huckabee ≠ conservatism
Romney ≠ well, depends I guess
Paul = conservatism (just checking :))
Fred ≠ Lying, pandering, politician
31
I though Providence was in Rhode Island
Sorry Nat I meant 32 in the last post
BigJolly, I agree, the statistics are that 10% of New Hampshire population go to church, considering nothing is perfect and 90% in politics is unheard of, New Hampshire is full of atheists.
#30 Texpat, quite so and an excellent description of the fanatical Paul and Huckabee supporters. Now before any/all Paul Bearers and Huck supporters get a severe case of the vapors, not all of you are fanatics. The fanatics need to find a fainting couch and take a stress pill. Other supporters are not in question.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060502/news_lz1n2thelist.html
http://www.google.com.qa/search?hl=en&q=church+attendance+by+state&meta=
So Iowa has 46% attending church and NH has 24% according to the dated Gallup poll to does that mean tha Mike will get 19% in NH?
NH and Vermont last on the list at 24%. Mass is next up with 31% which is mostly because of Roman Catholics. Romney did well there without wearing his religion on his sleeve. He had to because the only acceptable overt religious behavior accepted there is RC. So if, like Huckabee, your political, as well as your personal, image depends upon your Southern Baptist identity, you’ve got a problem in a place like New England. Having said all that, I’ll leave the prognosticating to the rest of you.
Texpat
So the two arguably most corrupt states in the Union throughout time strangly are at the top or the bottom of that list?
Arkansas, Louisiana - under 24% or over 50%?
Is this a political election or a religious popularity contest?
#43 LizBV
Some candidates use their religion to increase their popularity.
If it’s strictly political, leave your faith out of it.
I have no problem with a politican appealling to any religous “group”. Those with religous affiliations are possible votes. It is the nature of the beast. cHUCKles has tapped into a vein that no other candidate could.
Shame those folks once clamored for a conservative candidate and are substituting a populist message for conservatism.
But hey we know that he will be better than any democrat on wednesday than a good democrat on saturday night or something like that.
The only one worth voting for was excluded. All the others are pretenders and liars.
At this moment I’d rather Orama get it.
#46 Phil: Glad someone finally brought up Duncan Hunter! /ducks and hauls butt - quack!
#41 BL
Actually the three most corrupt states according to the Asst AG’s I’ve talked to are one at the top, Louisiana-58% / one in the middle, Illinois-42% / one at the bottom, New Jersey-34%. Arkansans are just wannabes at corruption.
I hate it when I do that. Here’s the real link.
I agree with you about spending Bigjolly. Nevertheless, it is better to have tax cuts which thereby produce more revenue, than have the Demo tax rises and have less coming in. Absolutely they all need to veto, push, shove, whatever it takes, to stop spending. They have to insist on being able to read a bill, every bill first. Most have NEVER read any. I still insist that The PLONKER ‘Line Item Vote’ by both Houses is the only chance we’ve got of cutting spending. Because of that I’ll keep throwing it in the ring.
I’m trying to learn computer 101.
I never thought I would say this, but McCain was awesome.
The Huckster will be sliced, diced and neutered in a general election campaign. He will be our McGovern.
Texpat
Naww they just never get caught like Mississippi and Bama as well thats all
Ya see some have it perfected
You might find this interesting:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nh_debate_the_gop_field.html
Its relatively unbiased…relative to some of the other latte sipping pontificators.
Ron