I’m all for law and order but this seems a bit over the top.
The nine police officers who patrol between the town’s two stoplights have seen their training and weapons upgraded in recent years. Namely, the department now has an automatic rifle. An M-16, to be precise.
And why does such a small police force need an M-16? Why, terrorism, of course!
“Before, there was never the threat there is now,” Lawson said, adding that terrorists could possibly hitch a ride on one of the drug or immigrant smuggling routes that run through Jourdanton. “There’s all types of possibilities.”
I suppose anything is possible. Still, I rather prefer this small town police chief’s approach.
Pearsall Police Chief Joel Gonzalez doesn’t see the need for heavy firepower, such as M-16s, in his community. In his 11 years with the department, officers have only used a shotgun once to shoot at a snake, he said, so he’d rather focus his officers’ energies on training and knowing the locals. Gonzalez also worries about the message big firepower would send in a small community.
“I know that every department wants to be prepared, but I really don’t feel like we should escalate to that level,” he said.
Sounds like a guy that knows what he’s doing.
Filed Under Front Page ·
I agree with the Sheriff. The odds of needing one, and the right person having it at the time he needed it, are not good.
I remember Dan Patrick talking about the Tomball Police Dept. having some kind of specially equipped terrorism surveilance vehicle (mega dollars), hope the officer who drives it is on duty when terrorists hit Tomball!
Criminals have them so why not the police? I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Another typical anti-law enforcement statement by our resident moderate.
Hey, wait just a minute! I thought I was a liberal!
Sounds like a bunch of out of control Rambo wannabes need to be put in check. I’ve always said people need to be wary of any baby wrapped in a 9-11 blanket. It’s just another threadbare excuse to justify excess. It ranks right up there with “it’s for the chilllldren”.
Careful Malty. Ol’ Luv2 is gonna say you’re anti-law enforcement.
I’m all for law and order but
Sorry BigJolly but your opening statement says it all.
Great! Now you’re gonna set phil_m off on another anti-cop rant
You’re gonna be outnumbered on this one Luv2, this is a money (toy) grab plain and simple.
#9 GoodJobTim
Could be, but it’s not like being out gunned. I’ll get over this.
Check this out guys. Some of you may think we are just picking on the illegal aliens.
http://www.co.cameron.tx.us/eagle/HTML/Inmates/icurrent.htm
“It’s just another threadbare excuse to justify excess.”
“…this is a money (toy) grab plain and simple”
Or over-compensation for a small winkie.
Pearsall is in Frio County. Frio County is one county away from the Border.
They need MORE M-16s.
I can’t believe people complain about the gummint not arming the LEOs on the Border to fight drug dealers who are armed better than they are, then complain arming the LEOs on the Border to fight drug dealers who are armed better than they are.
Now, I think the chief is full of crap about the terrorism thing for grant money. Little town departments need cash. Otherwise they’d be setting up speed traps! But, not wanting to equip officers to handle a serious event is stupid. Things can get really bad really fast. In a little town where your backup might be coming from the next county over, what’s wrong with equipping the officers to handle things? They may never need the rifle, but what if they did? The same people that roll their eyes at the rifle will wonder “why the officers didn’t go in there and do something?” Remember Columbine?
You may have a gun in your home, how many times have you needed it? Shouldn’t the officers be given the tools to do their jobs better? What about a hostage standoff that started from a family disturbance? I’ve been on one of those. It took HPD SWAT over an HOUR to get on the scene and get set up! In the meantime, the patrol officers held the perimeter, with pistols and a couple of shotguns pointed at the residence.
Here’s where a little more firepower may have come in handy:
North Hollywood Shootout
Columbine comes to mind too…
Booga booga a cop with a big ole skeery black gun! Maybe they could just take their guns away and they can be like the Brits and the bad guys will get rid of theirs?
They can have an M-16 in the car and still glad hand the locals too.
Sarge,
Pearsall is the one with the sane Police Chief. Bigger town, major thoroughfare, etc.
Jourdanton is the one with the M-16.
Now, if I were a real terrorist, where would I go to get me an M-16?
Jolly;
How does that change the fact that the biggest complaint from all LEOs on the Border is that the Drug Dealers are better armed than they are?
How does that change the fact that the answer to that problem is to arm the LEOs better?
If we can use “terrorism” as a justification to give our LEOs the equipment they need if they get into a fracs with drug dealers, I’m, all for it.
This is another example of the gummint not refusing to do something to secure the border, and people picking at it because they did.
Probably one good reason why more hasn’t been done.
the first time one is needed and it was not made available these same guys would be criticized for failing to be prepared.
The odds a long that they will never face a terrorism treat, but given their location my guess it is just a matter of time before they have a run in with drug smugglers and many of those guys are heavily armed and have no problem shooting law enforcement officers.
re: my #12
I don’t particularly care if they own M-16s…as long as I can own one too
Sarge,
This has nothing to do with securing the border or terrorism. It’s about some local guys that want big guns.
You can own a full auto M-16!
I agree whole-heartedly with Sarge. The fact that the coyotes crossing the border carry automatic weapons speaks to the need for our LEOs to at least be equally equipped. It is an insult for anyone to say that it is about boys wanting big toys.
That’s great, creating a cache of major firearms for some criminal to break into and steal. Although there is always a threat of terrorism, I don’t think these small towns are primary targets.
#20 Yup, I know. I’d just like to keep it that way. I don’t own an M16 but I do have an M1 Carbine my dad bought for something like $17 from the Anniston Army Depot back in the ’50s.
Really, both sides make good arguments here but I don’t think its “an insult” to say this is about boys wanting big toys. What’s wrong with wanting big toys?
Robert M - Why on earth would a criminal break into a POLICE DEPARTMENT to steal guns when there are thousands of black market guns to choose from? Even though this is a “small town” department I doubt very seriously if they keep the guns hidden under Otis Campbell’s mattress.
To those that disagree…have the cops store the weapon in a case with a sign reading “Break Glass in Case of Terrorist Attack”…feel better now?
well stated post #14…
“What’s wrong with wanting big toys?”
Nothing!
If the guvmint that can spend:
$146 million dollars on first class or business class tickets,
$2 million for a library to house the papers of Charles Rangel,
$100 million purchased and unused airline tickets, $1.2 million in 1980 to preserve a Trenton, NJ sewer as a historical monument,
$1,500,000 million to promote silk production in Laos,
$1,100,000 for the Mountain Made Foundation in Thomas, West Virginia for business development and the education of artists and craftspeople,
$200,000 for locoweed research at New Mexico State University,
$19,600,000 added by the House for the International Fund for Ireland, a program that tries to aid the peace process in Ireland by paying for golf videos, pony trekking centers, and sweater exports.
I think buying a few guns for the 9 officers in Rooster-Poot, Texas are quite the bargain!
Good grief - it’s an M-16, not a howitzer. Most deer rifles pack more punch than an M-16, but maybe it can get a little more lead in the air when it’s on auto.
What they need, if anything, is a Ruger Mini-14, half the price of an AR-15 and more reliable, but less accurate. Also I know that a full auto M-16 would be more expensive than an AR-15. I don’t think that they NEED a full auto, they just waste ammo. Like Jeff Cooper says; Spray and Pray. Ruger makes a full auto Mini-14 for export to South America but I don’t know if they could get one or not.
Remington makes a 223 pump that some Police Depts. use because the Cops are familiar with Pump Shotguns.
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm
http://www.policelink.com/products/products/669-ruger-mini-14
Heck with those “regular” rigs…………get the fellers some quality hardware!
http://shop.lwrifles.com/category.sc?categoryId=2
(this is like ‘what to pack’ for a motorcycle trip folks - MUCH better to have and not need than vice versa!)
DPS Troopers carry State issue Mini-14’s in their cars (or they used to). Mini 14’s are great. I’d feel ok with a semi auto rifle. 5.56 is kinda weak, I’d prefer a 7.62. Maybe the Mini-30? That Russian 7.62×39mm ammo is CHEAP!!!
An M-14 or FAL would be my 1st choice. I met a Texas Ranger that showed me a CMP M-14 in his trunk. He said he didn’t know what he’d do if he had to use it, but it sure made him feel better that it was an option.
#30 Faster, I thought about the Mini-30 after I posted, and I agree, they could get tons of surplus ammo to practice with for next to nuttin’. I’ve often thought that the little 30 would make a fine East Texas deer rifle, better than the Ruger 44 Mag. Carbine, and almost as good as a Thutty-Thutty. We once had a little Gal on our deer lease that shot a 44 carbine.
I have a Makrov that I paid $130 for, it was my Boy’s first pistol, before he stole my Ruger Red-Hawk. We’ve put over 2000 rounds through that little gun and it’s never failed, not even one stove pipe. I think that is so reliable because it’s a straight Blow-Back design. My old colt 911 wouldn’t do that. I bought 2200 Rds. of ammo for about $2.56 for a box of 50. If I threw it into the river today I’d be out nothing.
The cops should have what they need, and use it when they need it. The downside of this kind of equipment fortification is the tendency to use it when it’s not really required. This is more prevalent in larger cities.
Trouble is, it’s hard to get good data on use and misuse of upgraded arms and similar gear.
Maybe RP can donate some of his money bomb money to Radley for his fishing expedition.
Jourdanton, Texas / 2006 Statistics / Texas DPS
Population - 4,355
Murders - 0
Rapes - 0
Robberies - 0
Aggravated Assaults - 7
Burglary - 24
Larceny - 22
Auto Theft - 3
Texas Crime Rate Index (per 100,000 pop) = 4,599.6
City of Jourdanton Crime Rate Index = 1,285.9
Jourdanton crime rate is 27% of statewide rate.
Of the five incorporated cities in Atascosa County, Jourdanton had the lowest crime rate.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/crimereports/06/cit06ch9.pdf
RE: #34
For some cockeyed reason, I have been unable to find drug/substance abuse/dui arrest statistics broken down by county. Otherwise, I would have included it.
I think the bulk of the small town and backwater LEOs I have seen could use some gym equipment more than a fully automatic assault weapon. So could the rest of us.
Simple
Happy to oblige. Small town traffic cops aren’t the only ones getting military weaponry these days. So are the campus golf cart brigades at Arizona State University
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0305asuguns0305.html
Cue up the music…
Tin soldiers and Nixon’s comin’.
We’re finally on our own…
Cop obesity is a problem everywhere, not just the backwater towns.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/health/chi-fit-chicago-copmar09,1,6402234.story
Everything from the head of every police department, regardless how large or small equates to one thing: Not safety of the public, not safety of the officers, not reduction in crime. It’s funding. If they can get money from uncle sugar by any means, they’ll do it. If they have to scream terrer-izzim to the high heavens, it’s about funding. There are nine patrol officers? Three per shift? And that’s not counting days off and vacation/sick days. They could have allowed their officers to carry semi auto AR-15’s at any time, the chief just saw funding in it. Plain and simple. So what? If they didn’t get the $$$, it would have been spent on funding macramé classes for crackheads or studying the effects of the moon and tides on left handed albino lesbian midgets from Cameroon.
It really does not matter what the crime rate is. The likely hood of needing the weapon will be for drug runners passing through the area.
One thing is for sure, if they come up against well organized drug runners they better have the firepower and knowledge of how to use it or we will be reading the sad story of how a small town police department was wiped out in an unfair fight with drug runners.
#38
Yes Phil, we all know you hate Ploice officers.
Phil could just pull up in his big ole truck and stick his arm out the window and skeer ‘em!
booga booga
I’m not sure I’ve ever met a “Ploice,” though I have met a lot of fat-@$$ cops. In fact they’re almost as abundant as fat-@$$ TSA agents. Come to think of it, the only profession that comes to mind with a larger fat-@$$ per capita rate is metro bus driver.
“Happy to oblige. Small town traffic cops aren’t the only ones getting military weaponry these days. So are the campus golf cart brigades at Arizona State University”
Yeah, not that they would need them Phlegm… Do you get the tools you need to do your job?
Fatal shootings at U.S. colleges or universities in recent years.
When I’m in trouble I’m calling Phlegm, not the cops, cuz he’s got a big ole skeery truck.
#33 Hamous, that’s a good idea, but I think people gave RP money to effect change on the legislative and executive end of things. It’s enforcement statistics that are lacking.
However, considering that unnecessary use of dubious informants and no-knock/anounce & enter warrants places LEOs at needless risk of injury or death, perhaps The 100 Club should consider looking into supporting more research.
Dep. Joseph Whitehead
March 23, 2006—GA
On March 23, 2006, 12 officers conduct a 1:30 am no-knock drug raid on a house in Macon, Georgia. During the raid, Dep. Whitehead is shot and killed by residents Antron Dawayne Fair and Damon Antwon.
Bibb County Sheriff Jerry Modena told the Macon Telegraph that once the suspects realized the raiding party was law enforcement and not gang members, they surrendered immediately.
Nevertheless, prosecutors charged five of the residents with murder, including one who wasn’t in the building at the time. The two who actually fired weapons during the raid face the death penalty.
Officer Jeffrey Antcliff
February 9, 2006—MI
Genesee County Sheriff’s Deputy Jeffrey Antcliff is injured by a .22-calliber bullet lodged near his spine after a paramilitary raid on a drug suspect.
The suspect says he thought he was being attacked by criminal intruders, and in fact called 911 during the raid.
Dep. Steven Lanier
October 5, 2002—NC
On October 5, 2002, a sherif’s department SWAT team in Brunswick County, North Carolina raids the home of 25-year-old Paul Pelham and his roommate, Atari Thomas. The raid commences after police say an informant sold Pelham an ounce of crack cocaine two days ealier.
The police, dressed in camouflage, forcibly enter the home. They say they announced themselves, though neighbors would testify for Mr. Pelham at trial that they heard no announcement. Pelham is awoken late at night to the sound of flashbang grenades, reaches for his gun, and shoots at what he says he thought were intruders.
Pelham shoots and wounds Dep. Steven Lanier. One bullet hits the officer in the back, another hits him in the hand. Other officers then open fire on Pelham, shooting him 17 times. Pelham says he didn’t know the raiding officers were police until after he was shot.
Pelham is eventually charged and convicted of assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill and inflicting serious injury, three counts of assault with a firearm, and drug charges. He is acquitted of first-degree attempted murder and the charge of selling crack to an informant, the charge that brought the raid. Pelham is sentenced to 19 to 26 years in prison.
I could go on about this stuff like the energizer bunny, but the point is, nobody really knows the full extent of the problem.
And that’s a problem in my book.
Bark, doggie bark!
Actually no. The government has enabled my employer to declare itself a “gun free zone.”
Nice little list of college shootings by the way. If ever there was a case for cop ineptitude and campus police screw ups it is that. The first Virginia Tech shooting happened at 7:15 AM. He entered the classroom building at about 9:10 AM. It took the police another 10 minutes to get there, and 5 minutes to even enter the building. When they finally got to Cho, almost two and a half hours had passed since he killed his first victim and he was already dead from a self-inflicted gun shot wound.
By contrast, the best example of school shooting where the assailant was stopped early into his rampage was the 2002 Appalachian Law School attack. Students, including one with a CCL, tackled the guy well before the cops showed up.
Or Wild American Shrimp research.
#39 Faster, you said; If they didn’t get the $$$, it would have been spent on funding macramé classes for crackheads or studying the effects of the moon and tides on left handed albino lesbian midgets from Cameroon.
Man, that’s not a mental picture that I want in my head. ;=)
#47 Thanks for the reminder, Fasternu 426. I forgot to mention that they always shoot the dog.
bob42
No doubt mistakes are made. But you guys paint all law enforcement with the same brush. All cops are fat and stupid and lazy and on and on but you have zero input other than criticism.
Dr Ron Paul’s profession is more dangerous than police officers. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 250. Cops kill about 200 people per year. So, I’d be more afraid of Ron Paul than a cop.
#45 - Call whoever you like, Faster. Should I ever be in trouble I’ll also happily call your department as a courtesy and out of slim hope that they might actually be useful for once. What concerns me is the more likely scenario in which a HPD patrol car shows up late to the scene and out waddles an angry 250 lb fat guy with an attitude, who couldn’t chase a criminal if he wanted without accidentally triggering a heart attack or something.
Accidental deaths from physicians is 250,000 not 250….
I’d trust a cop before I trust a doctor…
Not ALL cops…just a disproportionately large (no pun intended) number of them, given the profession. And stories like this one show that the number is indeed disproportionately large.
http://www.mysuncoast.com/Global/story.asp?S=7988052&nav=menu577_2_1
Austin County Sheriff’s Department has recently requested budgeting for similar weapons.
The problem with that argument is that you get to choose your own doctor. If he’s bad all you gotta do is go find another one.
You don’t get to choose which cop responds to a break-in or a car accident. Sometimes they’re good and sometimes you’ll get a helpful one. But there’s always a strong chance that you get the obnoxious lazy fat guy too.
Phlegm
They are hiring. You can be one of the boys in blue? You have so much wisdom to share. You are doing a disservice to the community by not joining. BTW the shooting at the Appalachian Law School was stopped by cops who were off duty.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/963687/posts
Phil
I label you a fat ass with a big mouth and small brain that has absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You claim to be super citizen that knows how to handle MS-13 gang members and drives around in your big old pickup truck scaring bad guy. If you ever got close to MS-13 you would wet your pants.
To the moderator: Before you chose to delete this I trust you delete the moronic comments Phil, the fat ass, has made about ALL police officers.
I am out of here.
Already told ya thanks but no thanks. It’d be a cut in salary, plus I’m simply too fit for the profession’s physical requirements.
Faster, my beef is with bad laws, the bad procedures used to enforce them, and the accountability of departments in the wake of a botched operation…
Not the people who enforce them. Some are good and some are bad, but again, nobody knows the real ratio.
Everybody’s a tough guy at the keyboard.
#52
You need not fear Dr. Paul unless you’re pregnant.
#60 - There is no better evidence of the @$$hole cop phenomenon than one who confirms it himself. Thanks for providing that evidence, trl3.
Oh, btw, the Mexican drug gang thugs struck in front of CVS again last week. The assailant stabbed a guy and ran about 2 miles on foot through a neighborhood and past a local elementary school before the cops picked him up an hour later.
Yo, fellas, can we bring this back to a somewhat more civilized discussion? LST Moderator
You need not fear Dr. Paul unless you’re pregnant.
Or you’re the baby…
http://www.heart-disease-bypass-surgery.com/data/articles/52.htm
And some are just plain @$$holes, often mirroring their attitudes on the job as well. You’re a prime example of both.
You know this because???
Where was your a$$ and you’re big fookin’ scary truck and burly manly arms? Huh???? No, you had to rely on the fat bad attitude cops! You could have done something, you are a selfish ba$tard!
I’m more than content with discussing the policy issues surrounding police departments in this country. The problem is we have 2-3 cops/ex-cops on this board who respond to every single criticism of PD policy or police abuse by personally attacking the posters who made said criticism. If you want civility restored, look no further than there.
Two of my neighbors saw him run through their front yards in broad daylight.
At work earning a meaningful living, thank you very much.
You’re a prime example of being selfish. You sit in the bat cave and do nothing! Help us Caped Crusader! Help us! The world is being overrun by MS-13 and you sit there doing NOTHING! Suit up, oh caped one and save us because the fat, bad attitude cops won’t!
And they are gang experts?
You need to suit up batman!
Were they wearing their official MS-13 gang uniforms?
Already told ya, faster. If i’m ever attacked by one of the mexican gang thugs I have no reservations about defending myself and will do so within the full extent of the law. The law doesn’t empower me to be a vigilante though.
You mean this?
http://www.fbi.gov/headlines/ms071305.jpg
But you have those big burly arms to defend us with…
Too busy being a critic to be effective?
Last warning. Stop the personal attacks. LST Moderator
Actually yes, one of them is.
They were naked and tattooed? That’s the MS13 uniform. Wow, you and the bat computer are gooooooood!
He read a phamplet?
Or did you school him?
And you have…well…the average cop could always crush a criminal by sitting on them. Not the most effective way to stop somebody, but I suppose it works and it’s what they’re empowered to do by law.
Didn’t the sheriff say he had 16 men? How is one gun gonna help 16 men in time of need? That’s what makes this so funny. If he procures one a year…. he has 15 more years to go before everyone is armed. It’s ludicrous to think the gun will be in the right man’s hands when he needs it. I don’t think he’s gonna have time to get on the radio and request someone bring him the darned gun! Give em all guns just like that. I’m fine with that……. but don’t buy one token gun.
When the local cops get a Dillon Aero M134D (T) I will worry
http://www.dillonaero.com/M134_Gun_Systems-8-1.html
In a few days, the US Supreme Court hears a case on government gun control.
The case will address if Washington DC has the lawful authority to ban, or otherwise limit guns.
Should the high court find that the US constitution will not allow any form of government in the USA to infringe on the right to bear arms (without due process) a simple M16 automatic rifle will be to small to matter
I’m still waiting for Phil to show me Jews that are on Ron Paul’s campaign staff. As far as cops having M16s, who cares? I’d bet most of them are military veterans that have handled M16s before. And they made need them just in case Phil can’t handle the bad guys with his pickup and his gun rack that may or may not be empty.
Personally, I don’t see why they need full auto M16s versus AR15s. If they feel they need full auto, they should bet a saw or an M60. Something more controllable and that you can stand off with while firing full auto. M203 would be good too.
Remember when LAPD was outgunned by the guys wearing the body armor? Also remember when the LA Sheriff’s dept fired at that guy in the van 122 times and only hit him 4 times? The weapon doesn’t matter so much. The training does. And when body armor is so easy to get these days, the cops having something that will penetrate body armor is something they do need. It also appears these men are training with those weapons.
DELETED - OFF TOPIC
Big,
A good machine-gunner was worth his weight in gold. Trouble is..most folks are not. Spray and Pray.
Best place to stand is where they are trying to shoot. Especially when the cop holding the weapon last used his piece in the line of duty to shoot a snake. No disrespect intended to the LEOs, but I believe most go thru their careers infrequently drawing their weapons in the LOD.
Simple
Here’s a video of these cops on a hunting trip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBGlO_5AT-A&NR=1
Of course we could mount twin “ma-deuces” on their patrol cars. Now that would be a driveby shooting.
Simple
FWIW I’ll support the police being able to carry whatever type of firearm they desire with two stipulations:
1. They abide by strict departmental and state policies governing when it is permissible to use deadly force.
2. Whatever type of gun they use must also be available for regular and routine sale to law abiding members of the general public (meaning anything short of a treasury department stamp under current laws, though I’d be just as willing to let cops carry class III’s if they were also deregulated for the public).
Right now, I’d have no problem with a PD buying AR-15s because the general public can too. Hi cap mags? No problem.
An M-16 though? Not right now, at least. Let the law abiding public own them too through routine sales and then I’m okay with it. Otherwise, cops should have to purchase the same treasury stamp and fill out the same forms with the DA as everybody else.
Also, I don’t believe that being a cop makes you more qualified than anybody else to properly use and carry a firearm.
Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZlcbJwfP4
yawn……….
Of course it’s even worse when it happens on the job…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aSJgcpqePk
ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz….
Of course a vehicle in the wrong hands can be just as dangerous as a gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jorZ_tbTgdE
LOL Big J, I’m getting older. I don’t even remember what my #85 said that you deleted.
A mind is a terrible thing…
Livin’ in the hood ain’t easy… YO!
(language)
Shannon #57 - now that’s a problem, considering the department loses any quality officers to departments willing to pay livable wages. What’s left is not pretty.
Why would someone be so anti LEO unless they are involved in illegal activity or are just tired of being harrassed in airport bathrooms.
Phil M and Bob42 - you both purport to support police and just want to point out bad policies, bad laws, bad cops. However, the tone and inuendo cannot help but leave anyone reading this site with the impression that you both absolutely HATE cops. From the comments about how they are fat, and don’t get paid much, etc. etc. How about a little respect and realize that every profession has people that make the rest look bad. Instead of focusing on the very few (and yes, there are VERY few bad cops) look at the ones that are doing positive things. Phil said he wouldn’t suit up because he would take a cut in pay. If that is the case, how about a little respect for those that do suit up, to protect their fellow citizens, for such low pay? Does that not deserve some kudos right there? And add to the fact that they have to deal with the absolute worst of society every day they go to work, rarely get standard holidays off to spend with their families, let along weekends, and it’s surprising that anyone would put up with the nasty attitude of “certain people” on top of it. Remember also, that the rank and file cop wants to do a better job than the brass will let him (CYA at the top guys!).
#99 & #100 - They’re closet anarchists that haven’t come to terms yet
Closet anarchists?
Faster: Good one!
DCgirl - Hate is a strong word, and no, I don’t “hate” all cops. I do maintain that there is a disproportionately large percentage of “bad apples” in the cop profession when compared to other professions. It is a biproduct of both bad governing policies and the type of culture that PD’s tend to attract and create. And the evidence of it is strong and widespread.
Take the case in point about the PD in Maryland that has 150 outstanding tickets on their own speed cameras in the last 8 months, and they cop union is refusing to pay. Those numbers show that the problem is a lot bigger than 2-3 bad officers in a department. The bad officers there number several dozen, and they all seem to think they’re above the same traffic laws they enforce on other people.
And low pay? Please. Cop pay is comparable to just about any other job at a similar skill level, and is actually well above most other jobs that don’t require a 4-year college degree. In 2005 the median US cop salary was $45K a year, and detectives made $55K according to the Commerce Department. That’s more than just about any other job I can think of that doesn’t require a college degree (and a few that do, such as teachers). The perquisites of being an officer are also significant.
1. They effectively have their own “company car” with the job.
2. They get all sorts of equipment, tools, body armor, and weapons for the job, much of it top-of-the-line and second only to what the U.S. military receives.
3. They get union membership since almost all PD’s are unionized, and that makes it nearly impossible to get fired.
4. In some states they get exemptions that allow them to own firearms that are not available to the general public, and in virtually all states they are allowed to carry in places the general public is not.
5. They often get deferential treatment by other LEOs while traveling (IOW, cops usually don’t write other cops speeding tickets).
6. They have immense power and discretion in the way they conduct their jobs under the cover of the badge, and they can use it for self-benefit (i.e. ticket writing for revenue generation)
7. They are instantly qualified and eligible for additional part-time employment off the job, such as a security guard.
8. They have immense political clout because of their size, union organization, and public sympathy. No politician will ever cut funding to a PD, no matter how wasteful it is.
Also if you think being a cop is “tough” then show me another job with comparable skill requirements (or lack thereof) that has so many perks and a comparable salary level.
Show me another job where you can sign up with no college education (and in some places barely even a GED), get a $45 thousand starting salary, get subsidized on-site job training by your employer, get a company car to ride around in all day, and have instant guaranteed job security for pretty much as long as you want because of the union and the bureaucratic tape that protects you from being fired.
Other than perhaps a METRO bus driver, there isn’t any. So don’t pretend that cops all have the “hard life” simply because they are cops. They are cops because they choose to be cops, and being a cop has many benefits for somebody in that particular skill and education level of society.
#101 - Anarchist? Nah. I believe in a minimalist state, but a state nonetheless.
Its only functions are to secure the border, fight off invading armies, pave the roads, provide a court system that enforces and arbitrates contracts, and conduct routine and restrained policing exercises against offenses that intrude upon the rights of others and upon the general public. It should also be administered efficiently with a minimal tax burden on the public, and its administrative and legislative functions should be extremely limited. So basically like Liechtenstein, or the Cayman Islands.
Jealous much?
#99 - Frankly, I’m more worried about the LEOs that think elderly nuns in the airport security lines are suspected terrorists.
dcgirl, I fully understand that nobody has the time to read everything everyone else says around here, but I don’t think I’ve posted a comment that would indicate a hatred for cops.
I hate the ineffectiveness, cost, and damages done by the war on drugs.
Show me another job in this country (besides military) where 180 deaths occurred in performance of that job in 2007.
9/11 related illness: 7
Accidental: 4
Aircraft accident: 3
Animal related: 1
Automobile accident: 47
Boating accident: 1
Bomb: 5
Drowned: 3
Exposure to toxins: 1
Fall: 3
Gunfire: 65
Gunfire (Accidental): 4
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 7
Struck by vehicle: 9
Vehicle pursuit: 6
Vehicular assault: 10
Weather/Natural disaster: 2
107 - Nah, not really. As I said, I can obtain a significantly higher salary doing other things that neither underutilize my qualifications nor detract from my fitness. Becoming a cop would require me to forgo far too much in cost opportunity.
That said, for overweight hot tempered rednecks with an 83 IQ and a GED who will never aspire to anything meaningful, becoming a cop is reaching the top tier of their potential. To the segment of the population that supplies the world with METRO bus drivers, sanitation workers, and counter ladies at the DPS, becoming a cop is like becoming a CEO.
111 - Hope you never need one the people you so freely degrade. My uncle and brother in-law are LEO’s. Both fit and able to communicate in complete sentences. Like I said before, this isn’t about them being fat and stupid. What airport stall did you get arrested in?
110 -
Well, in 2005 there were 85 fatalities in the U.S. logging industry. Taken as a percentage of people who work as loggers, that’s the equivalent of 92 deaths per 100,000 workers.
109 aircraft pilots died in 2005 as well. That’s 92.4 per 100,000.
307 ranchers died on the job in 2005. That’s 37.5 per 100,000.
905 truck drivers died on the job in 2005. That’s 27.6 per 100,000.
The mortality rate per 100,000 for police, by comparison, was only 18.2.
Mr. Know-it-all Phil M:
For one thing, my husband has been a cop for nearly our entire married lives. Nearly 30 years. He has a bachelor of science degree in Criminal Justice. So your theory of not needing no edumacation goes out the window. Then each police officer has to pass the state test, take 20 hours per year of classes to keep their license, and pass a range test every year as well. My husband doesn’t get a “company car”. If he was on patrol, which he isn’t, his “office” would be the police car - this isn’t something that gets to go home with him either. He gets up at 3:15 every morning in order drive his personal vehicle to get a decent (aka cheap) parking so he is not spending $10/day to park, works from 6 - 2 and then goes home in his personal (again) vehicle. Gas costs a fortune because it is hard to near impossible to carpool when everyone works different shifts and none of the shifts allows the use of mass transit (park and ride). The only time he had a “company” car was when he raided drug dealers, but he couldn’t take it past the county line anyway. The skills involve being able to deal with the scum of society on one hand and elected officials, DAs, judges, etc. all with efficiency and decorum. Try having a permanent injury from wrestling a crazed druggie to the ground. The Texas Penal Code is one hell of a book - try memorizing it sometime. And “job security” - what a joke. IA is constantly trying to find ways to hang their fellow cops and the backstabbing that goes on by the brass to their subordinates is horrifying. And most cops would rather not have to work part-time jobs to be able to put food on the table. Median salary of $45K - I don’t know where that is but after nearly 30 years on the job, with the highest level of “enlisted” rank, and a 4-year degree will still get you less than $60K at Harris County. They are allowed to carry weapons where others aren’t because they are on duty 24/7. Therefore they have to have their weapon (but try to explain that to the TSA). The only thing that Harris County provides is the uniform. All ammo, firearms, Sam Brown, body armor, etc. is paid for out of our pocket. No reimbursement from the county.
So next time you want to open your ignorant mouth, try having some facts at hand first. And don’t compare cops to bus drivers and certainly not teachers - a CJ degree have much harder courses to get through than a teaching degree.