I admit that I’m one of the cynical types that Ree-C mentioned in her post on race. I doubt that Obama believes much of what J. Wright says and I doubt that he got a lot of spiritual benefits from sitting in that church because it doesn’t appear that the church focuses on spiritual things. I think that Dick Morris nailed his reason for attending that church.
Wright’s rantings are not reflective of Obama’s views on anything. Why did he stay in the church? Because he’s a black Chicago politician who comes from a mixed marriage and went to Columbia and Harvard. Suspected of not being black enough or sufficiently tied to the minority community, he needed the networking opportunities Wright afforded him in his church to get elected. If he had not risen to the top of Chicago black politics, we would never have heard of him. But obviously, he can’t say that. So what should he say?
Not being black enough. In Chicago politics, that would be a death blow. Using the church is nothing new for politicians; Obama was just using a time tested model.
The problem for Obama now is his credibility. After all, here is a man that is supposed to be a “different” kind of politician. He says he’s honest, truthful, above reproach. Sure he is.
What Obama needs not to do is to resort to the kind of Clintonian fudging that animated his interview with Keith Olbermann. By saying “I wasn’t there” and “I didn’t know” and “I didn’t hear him say it,” he will invite contempt and derision. If he were to continue in that vein, he would buy himself a controversy akin to that which drowned John Kerry in the facts and allegations of his service in Vietnam. People will surface to say, “I sat next to him, and Wright said such and such,” and Obama will be hostage to everybody’s subjective memory.
The contempt and derision has just started. Hillary made the mistake of not doing this early on and it has most likely cost her the nomination. McCain and the Republican Party won’t make the same mistake.
Perhaps he should have called his book “The Audacity of Lying to Get Ahead”.
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“BO”s family background doesn’t lend to him being “black”. After all he was raised in a “white” influence after his father left the family at an early age. “BO” figured by doing “black” things like going to a black church would be more benefical to him. Let’s face it, what Ferraro said is absolutely right, “BO” would not be where he is today if he were “white”. The HELLary camp needed to have it said so they sacrificed a surrogate to get it into the media. The campaign has been turned into a “race” thing.
Lets just hope that BO is ruthless enough and Shrillery is determined enough and between the two of them they will duke it out and tear up the DNC.
Obama is the father of two children and is responsible for their spiritual nurture and upbringing. All their lives, those kids have gone to Rev. Wright’s church.
And, depending on which day he tells what he heard or did not hear, Obama either knew or should have known of Rev. Wright’s hateful words and twisted view of the progress of race relations in the U.S.
Instead of protecting his kids, he let them remain where such hateful and wrong things were preached.
He failed badly as a father if he was ignorant of the senior pastor’s words and beliefs. If he agreed with Rev. Wright, Obama is a contemptible liar. If he disagreed with Rev. Wright and kept quiet to further his political career, he put his kids’ souls at risk. That’s evil.
He is not an adequate father to his own children. How can he be a good president?
It has been obvious for quite some time that Obama and Michelle are racists. Her thesis proves it and her hatred of America proves it. They are also liars of the worst kind, pretending to be oppressed blacks when they make more money and have more privilege than most whites.
Don’t forget about him throwing Granny underneath the bus!
All this wishful thinking for the Dims to self destruct. You’ve got to understand that they have no principles, no foundation of beliefs from which to draw, no morals, no scruples, etc. They are the original “yellow dogs.” They will united behind whoever is shrewd enough to scam the election process for the nomination because all that’s important to them is power. Just like Crabby Appleton, it is their intent to “rule the world” no matter the cost.
Here is a good take on the speech.
http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=676
#3 Fink, you nailed it.
Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
I think you’re missing the point with O’Bama, my favorite Irish politician. In the end, his real problem as a leader is not the question of experience or choices of church, but whether he is tough enough to be a world leader. I bet few here doubt that Hillary is tough enough: if anything, we’re worried that she will be tough in all the wrong ways. But O’Bama? I worry that he’s too much of a nice guy to have the steel that is required.
How’s that model working for out for him now? So much for change.
Uh oh…Hillary has a pastor too.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU
Don’t take this as a defense of Obama, but just as a fact. == The comment that “Obama would not be where he is today if he were not black” is totally unfair. Would Hillary be where she is if she had not been married to Bill? Would Hillary be getting as large a percentage of the woman’s vote if she were a man? Some of you probably would not have the job you do, if you did not know a certain person. We all benefit by the things in our past. That is just the way life is.
bigmck, so the refutation of “Obama would not be where he is today if he were not black” is that it is true?
duhmoose — I think the pharse should be “Obama is where he is today, despite his being black”. Being black is not an advantage running for President. Eighty percent of the people are not black.
I’ll have to do this on both threads. The Dems are stuck. They have to go with Obama now, even though they know Hillary is now more electable. If they don’t pick Obama, they seem racist and they know there would be riots and blacks now wouldn’t vote if Hillary is the choice. They’d rather lose now than give the appearance of being divided along racial lines. They also know that Obama’s own mouth will be his self destruction. They know Obama has lost any moral authority of any kind. Add to that Obama’s upcoming campaign stop in Plainfield, IN at the ISNA, and Obama is toast. At least as of today. But the convention is still slightly more than FIVE months away. That’s an eternity in politics.
I would argue that while it is not necessarily an advantage in the general election where the demographics are what you describe, it is an advantage when running in the Democratic Primary for two reasons:
1. Blacks, like it or not, vote overwhelmingly Democrat. As in around 95% consistency. That’s just a matter of fact in American politics. It also means that Blacks are probably the single largest demographic group among reliable Democratic primary voters. None of the other favored demographic categories of the DNC is comparable in size or intensity of vote. So simply being a credible, reasonably well funded black candidate in the Democratic Primary these days is more than sufficient to put you into the top 2 of a crowded field. And Obama did just that with ease.
2. The Democratic Party is also the liberal party in this country, and liberals have a complete infatuation with the concept of racial guilt. They obsess over “diversity” and “multiculturalism” and constantly pride themselves on telling other people how “open minded” they are to other cultures (even though it’s all superficial nonsense). That means there are plenty of non-black Democrats who are willing to vote for a black candidate not because of his policy views but simply because he’s the black candidate, and that’s the “diverse” and “multicultural” thing to do.
So as a rule of thumb:
Black candidate winning the general election for president in the U.S. - not so easy.
Black guy winning the Democratic Primary in multiple states - cakewalk.
#16 I generally agree with that but there is some factor associated with Obama besides being black that has forwarded him. If it were Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton running they would not achieve the success as has Obama. In fact, I think being black would hinder them.
I think maybe it was the fact that he (and the media) portrayed him as a “post-racial” candidate. That characterization has now been blown out of the water.
hamous, there is no doubt that Obama is very good at giving speeches, is a handsome man, and creates a very good public image. I think those things have helped him immensely. If he were not black, I think he very well could have been a Presidential candidate in 1 or 2 more election cycles. I think his race is what got him ahead of the pack and it got him quite a bit of extra publicity.
#17 - Sharpton is a buffoon with a lengthy record of notoriety. That’s what hinders him. Jesse is largely the same way today, though circa 1984 he was seen as more credible because many people had not figured out his schtick yet and most of his public scandals came later.
I believe that if the 1984 Jesse Jackson was running today, he would be in a situation not unlike Obama. Here’s why: the Democratic Party of 1984 had a much larger white blue collar demographic than it does today. That demographic was able to counter-vote the similarly sized black voter block (which did nonetheless win a couple of primaries for Jesse, btw). The Dems’ old white blue collar voter bloc was also generally unsympathetic, if not even hostile, to the modern day liberal idols of “multiculturalism” and “diversity” so there was no cross appeal to them in 1980 or 1984.
That blue collar bloc has all but disappeared as a force from the DNC machine today. In its place is a white constituency that is much more open to voting for a black guy for no other reason than his skin color, and combined with the black votes that’s more than enough to make any credible-sounding black candidate (i.e. somebody who isn’t Al or Jesse and has a proven ability to get elected to some other office).
In 1980 or 1984 the typical “white democrat” was a factory worker or a mechanic in a blue collar job. Today many typical “white democrats” are unemployed bohemian artist war protesting artsy-fartsy harpy with more gas in her head than brains (read: Lisa Falkenberg), a pothead hippie reliving the 60’s, or a NAMBLA member.
Of course there’s also the other reason that Obama is acceptable to these people. He passed the Joe Biden cleanliness test.
The thing I cannot fathom about Obama is his 20 year loyalty to Trinity CoC in Chicago. I agree he joined for street cred in Illinois, but to continue there was obviously going to be a liability in the future. He seems much too smart and calculating to have done something so baldly stupid.
While he may betray his closely held attitudes about race in his autobiographical books, he also appears humane, funny and honestly self-effacing. Andrew Ferguson, Senior Editor of Weekly Standard, reviewed both of Obama’s books and, while panning the later campaign-generated tome, Ferguson lamented we got a raw deal when we lost a writer and gained a politician. He was pretty impressed with Obama’s writing talents back before he had handlers, campaign staff and lawyers.
Who can avoid now the very real possibility this man has been concealing his true and genuine racial hostilities because it would damage his career ? I still can’t explain the Rev. Wright association though. The one reason I have not seen offered is Michelle, his wife. Could it be that she, uber-angry, black super-wife has been the force that held the Obama family to Trinity, even against Barack’s better judgement ? If he were cynically hiding his true racial animus, why would he be associated with Wright in the last decade ? And, if he believes in Wright’s ideas emphatically, why delude one’s self into running for President ?
Hubris? Think George Wallace circa 1968.
Texpat #20, I think I can explain that. Obama fell into the trap of believing his own propaganda. He got indulated in his world and forgot there was an outside world that would look at things entirely different. That happened to me in Texas, and in the LST/KSEV/FOX world. Sometimes we forget that there is a large world that looks at things completely differently than solid conservatives. John McCain is a classic example of that. Few of us could have believed that McCain would ever be the nominee. Same thing with Ron Paul supporters. They actually believed those telephone polls after the debates.
#22 Big45Iron
I was talking to an old friend of mine from Waller County last night who is active in local politics. She mentioned how frustrating it is to deal with the guy who runs for Commissioner or County Judge or Sheriff. I said the problem with these candidates is they only have to please and say the right things to members of their party when they run. They tend to say, and acually believe, some rather impossible stuff at that time. The shock comes when they get into office and find out they have represent ALL the people, all the time, including the 45% who didn’t vote for them.
Am I understanding that Obama got caught up with this church, couldn’t help himself, and isn’t racist one bit? He buddied around with Ayers. I think the believes his own press, that he can unite…… but I don’t think he’s not racist. What he wants is power. Power and money. He’s a tightrope walker….. he cannot offend the blacks and has to draw the whites. Who knows what he really thinks!
AW 24, don’t interpret what I said to mean he’s not racist or could’t help himself. It just means he was in his own little world and didn’t think anybody else would find out. The arrogance that power brings.
OH yes Big45, sorry I didn’t understand. Exactly right about the arrogance. Imus could not say nappy ( you know what) without loosing his job… which Obama called for btw.
Now we find this on Obama’s website:
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/new-black-panther-party-supports-obama
A link to the New Black Panther Party. This guy is something else.
#27 Big45, when I came home today, the first thing I did was try to find the reference to the Black Panthers on Obama’s site. I couldn’t. I clicked on everything I could find….. and just couldn’t find it. Do you think, they already removed it?
Sean Hannity was looking at it today. Bet they did remove it very quickly. Too late. The history is there.
Pretty soon Obama’s web page will be really empty, lol.
#28 AW Hannity mentioned the Obama website link to the “new” Black Panther Party today, so it was probably removed in a heartbeat.
I’m worried about what Obama means by “unity”. As the most reliable liberal vote (in his 3 short years in the Senate) I think he means unite “on his terms” behind “what he wants to do”. What do we want him to do? Renounce his Pastor (who led him to Christianity, performed his marriage, and baptized his kids) or stick by J. Wright and all that “white hate” and “corporate” hate (he obviously didn’t like Imus when he demanded his resignation). Obama sounds like a socialist to me (maybe even worse than sHrILLARY –good one #2 Dov)
Oprah used to be a member of that church, but left in the 90’s. Did she hear things that were distasteful? She has been wildly successful, despite leaving that church, so I don’t think that’s a viable excuse for Obama. There are a LOT of black churches to find relevance in that don’t spew anger at the United States, dislike of capitalism, and hatred of white people.
Jules Crittendon says it best:
“I did not have spritual relations with that pastor.”
Sarge, we better have a look at Obama’s blue suit.
Big jolly: whether or not He actually believes in the stuff being spouted, If he gets elected, He may have to throw some ‘black enough’ bones to keep up the street cred….. I heard part of the speech yesterday and I have to say that some of what he said is certainly worthy of discussion. I realise that He was trying to weasal out of a few things etc. However, I don’t think it would hurt those of us who are Honky Crackers to listen to a well written and well delivered discourse on the feelings of Black people. Having said that, one has to ask why he defends a Demogogue who is ‘winding up’ the fervor of the Black Community to the point of NOT getting over it.