After losing two court battles, you’d think that Texas CPS officials would be humbled and comply with the spirit of the court’s decision - return the children of the FLDS to their parents, post haste. If you think that, you’ve never dealt with this agency and the arrogance that comes with thinking that they know best.
Marleigh Meisner, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Families and Protective Services, which had asked the court to rule in its favor, said the agency was “disappointed but we understand and respect the court’s decision and will take immediate steps to comply. Child Protective Services has one purpose in this case - to protect the children.
“Our goal is to reunite families whenever we can do so, and make sure the children will be safe,” Meisner said. “We will continue to prepare for the prompt and orderly reunification of these children with their families.”
In other words, we are going to do what we are going to do, on our timetable, on our terms, so blow off. They also said,
In an official statement, CPS officials indicated that they will comply with the ruling.
“We will continue to prepare for the prompt and orderly reunification of these children with their families,” the statement said. “We also will work with the district court to ensure the safety of the children and that all of our actions conform with the decision of the Texas Supreme Court.”
That would be the same district court, lorded over by Judge Barbara Walther, that created this mess in the first place and has been an active cheerleader for CPS’s actions, encouraging and allowing them to present totally irrelevant evidence in court for the sole purpose of enhancing their case in the press and general public by appealing to emotions. You think she’s going to release these children now? Without tying them up in knots at every opportunity? Not a chance.
Joe Spurlock, a law professor at Texas Wesleyan University and a former Tarrant County family court judge, said Child Protective Services could still try, case by case, to block some of the children from returning home.
“The court says it’s not over; it’s not dismissed,” Spurlock said Thursday. “They’re just saying you don’t have the evidence you should have. I think it’s as murky as it can be, and the lawyers who are representing the kids and the mothers are doing a good job for their clients. CPS has to come forward with their evidence. How they get it? I don’t know.”
So, as much as I’d like to think that justice has prevailed, it hasn’t, yet. The only way that justice will have prevailed is for those children to be back home with their families this weekend. Think that’s going to happen? Don’t hold your breath.
Filed Under Front Page ·
Comments
73 Responses to “CPS: Don’t Hold Your Breath, FLDS”Search
Our Sponsors
Poll
Loading ...LST Book Club
-
Defending Identity: Its Indispensable Role in Protecting Democracy
by Natan Sharansky -
Fear No Evil
by Natan Sharansky -
The Case For Democracy: The Power of Freedom to Overcome Tyranny and Terror
by Anatoly Shcharansky -
The Jewish State: The Struggle for Israel's Soul
by Yoram Hazony -
Bobos in Paradise: The New Upper Class and How They Got There
by David Brooks -
Snobbery: The American Version
by Joseph Epstein -
A Conflict of Visions: Idealogical Origins of Political Struggles
by Thomas Sowell
I agree BigJ……. CPS tentacles are firmly attached to these children. The good thing about this is, the ranch has money to pay competent lawyers. At some point, maybe the state will decide the cost and limelight, too expensive, and call off the dogs.
Surely lawyers for the children can get a change of venue or at least a recusal of Judge Walther given her lack of interest in following the law and her proclivity for cheerleading for CPS. Wonder just how long it will take CPS to “continue to prepare for the prompt and orderly reunification of these children…” After all, weren’t they originally preparing for their reunification with the court approved cookie cutter plan they had presented to the court? No, this is long from over, but hopefully, after a brief period, a higher authority will step in and insist that justice prevail.
For anyone who has ever battled CPS, this is a no-brainer. CPS will continue to delay and obfuscate and release statements which are targeted at the parents to justify their actions. The children will be lucky to be back at home before Christmas. (and I talking Dec 2009!)
Sorry BigLove… you wanted CPS to be forced to obey the law (as did I), and it looks like a court has finally forced them to… but that doesn’t mean the state gives up its (proper) authority or duty to protect children from child-raping cultists–which, let no-one forget or deny, the FLDS are, even if they do still have rights (which they do) and even if CPS badly mis-stepped in the initial phases of this investigation (which they did) and even if CPS is a horribly clumsy, typically idiotic government bureaucracy (which it is).
My hope is that the local judge creates some sort of child protection regime along the lines you, BigamyJolly, suggested a while ago–all the kids live collectively with their mothers, on the FLDS compound, but the men must live elsewhere, and can only visit with their multiple-families and under-aged brides under CPS supervision. The women and kids can’t leave (yup, I’m saying keep ‘em prisoner!) until the investigation of FLDS as an ENTITY (as opposed to each individual custody case, which was never workable) is complete.
It’s either that, of write-off another generation of innocent children to child-rape… and I can GUARANTEE you, if this compound was full of Mexicans or Muslims or anyone else pulling this exact same crap who wasn’t white or (nominally) Christian or who dressed like the cast of “Little House on the Prairie”, there’s not a commenter on this website who would be arguing we should just “leave these poor people alone to live their lives as they see fit.”
Bring. It. On.
BigamyJolly - LMAO - that’s one of the funniest things Benzene has ever typed!
David, how do you know this group isn’t evolving into a group that follows our laws, as it’d leaders age and the young ones take over? On T.V. today CPS admitted all of this was because of 5 girls who were either have been pregnant before the age of 16 or are now.
Howdy All,
Off-topic a bit… but Lone Star Times is linked to Google News. Found this story right next to AP coverage of the election. Good work.
to American Woman … up until 2005 it was legal for a girl over the age of 14 to be married (and presumably have children). Notice, CPS didn’t say that they weren’t legally married when they had babies (and to be ‘legally married’ in Texas all you have to do is something as simple as register in a hotel as husband and wife) … uhmm, they simply omitted that fact. (I bet if they were 12-year olds who got pregnant and had an abortion, CPS would have simply congratulated them.)
Besides, this group is following our laws … freedom of religion. With gay marriage being allowed, it is just a matter of time before polygamy is justified (and it has the backing of the Constitution!)
David,
I’ll take that challenge. I hated what Janet Reno and the Clinton administration did to Elian Gonzalez. He was Cuban (in other words, not white) and since he grew up in Cuba, I don’t know if he ever got the chance to learn about Jesus. I hope so. That’s about the only comfort he will have in Castro’s “island paradise”.
An abuse of power has always has been unacceptable to me. That’s the crux of this case, as you admitted. The state in both cases told the citizens that it knew best what was good for the children and that the rights of families involved meant nothing.
Please point to the clause, article, or amendment in the Constitution that grants you the right to practice bigamy.
…or the clause , article, or amendment in the Constitution that prohibits the state from enacting laws outlawing the practice.
And I would take that in a heartbeat - but it isn’t going to happen, especially if people are afraid to stand up and speak out for what is right.
And this commenter is not arguing that we should leave these people alone. We should, as I have said from the beginning, force them to obey the law, as we would any other group.
What we should not do is single them out for extra special, above the law persecution because we “think” that “another generation” will be lost.
The court ruled that there was NO EVIDENCE to support removing them. If there was NO EVIDENCE to support removing them, then, by definition, there is NO EVIDENCE to stop them from going home.
Here is the deal with CPS: If you admit you were wrong and say, “Yeah, I did it and I’m sorry” and start jumping through all of the hoops set out by CPS (Plan to Reunite), you get your kids back.
If you don’t admit you were wrong and you did not hurt your kid, you are up for a very long fight and it will be very hard to get your kid(s) back.
CPS needs to prove they were “right”; if you admit it, you get your kid faster. Those that are chronically involved with the agency “get this”. That is why you see little kids getting beaten to death. Chances are they were in the system and the parents understand it. So once the parent(s) is accused of hurting their kid, they say, “yeah I did it”, went to an anger management class CPS set out to go to, and got their kid back.
The worse thing that can happen to a good parent is to get involved with this agency. If you are not guilty and are willing to fight about it, good luck. My advice? Remember the words “Mea culpa, Maxima Mea culpa”.
Before I had kids, I was a volunteer for Child Advocates (CASA).
The above was “the dirty little secret” related to me by an attorney while I worked for CASA.
Ree-C,
I too worked as a CASA volunteer. Nasty stuff. Hard to believe what people do to their own flesh and blood.
BaBa WaWa is a judge??????????
Who KNEW????????????
Ree-C, from my sources that deal with families that deal with CPS, your insight is dead-on accurate.
Basara– I think our positions are closer than you might realize; I’ll explain.
Like you, I was completely opposed to what Reno/Clinton did to Elian Gonzalez. If I could have, I would have been willing to hide Elian in my home to avoid his deportation, even at the risk of going to jail.
I see my principles here as being consistent… namely…
(1) All people–EVEN CHILDREN–have inalienable rights;
(2) Because children have inalienable rights, they should not be treated like property.
The “Law” (both formal and spontaneous/common law) gives (and should give) very, very wide discretion to parents over what they do with their children. This is in keeping both with an inherent sense of justice (immoral to inflict pain on parents of taking their kids); with “natural” law (it’s the way things work when human beings self-organize absent formal government); and with practical reality (if some folks mess with other folks’ kids too often, we’d all be at war with each other and/or not have very many kids).
Let’s apply the theories to reality.
Elian Gonzalez had (and still does) certain inalienable rights. No one has the proper authority to force another human being into slavery, which is precisely what dictatorial communism as practiced in Cuba is. The President of the United States doesn’t have that authority. Castro doesn’t have that authority. Even Elian’s father didn’t have that authority–and that assumes he even meant what he was saying, which I doubt, since he was a slave under the Castro regime as well.
Regardless, Elian was treated like a piece of property, and his natural rights were violated by the United States government, the Cuban government, and (maybe) by his own father. Evil, evil, evil, but there it is.
Turning now to El Dorado… the patriarchs that run that compound with an iron-fist are the “vanguard” and most “pure” believers in a cult leader who we KNOW to be a serial bigamist (which is against the law, but whatever, for the sake of this argument let’s allow consenting adults do whatever they want) and a serial CHILD-MOLESTER.
If people want to take an extremist ACLU-style “How dare you listen in to that phone call between a known Al-Qaeda operative in Pakistan and his cousin in Chicago, you don’t KNOW they were talking about anything nefarious” approach to all this, I can’t stop you, but I choose common sense.
The authorities received a phone call that, in good faith, they believed came from a child in danger. (If CPS or some authority had manufactured the call to give themselves a pretext for going in, that’d be different.)
Once they’re in, they have a legal and moral obligation to investigate and ensure that the inalienable rights of those children aren’t being violated.
I won’t rehash my concessions regarding how stupid, clumsy, inefficient or counter-productive some of the government’s actions have been since then–I concede it all.
But that simply means they ought to be doing things properly and getting things right… not turning a blind eye entirely.
Two choices, two paths… either children are property (in which governments can demand they live in dictatorships and parents can insist they be raised to have sex at age 14 with 50 year old men), or they have inalienable rights, in which case they deserve our protection.
Uhmmm, I was referring to “Freedom of Religion” for all those who couldn’t read between the lines.
Sure, the US Government has forced the Mormon Church to abstain (pardon the pun), but it is only a matter of time before the courts question that restriction. Heck, if two guys can marry each other, why can’t one man marry three or four women (or one woman marry several men), especially if it is a religious freedom?
Get the kids home, ferret out the criminals (if any), prosecute the criminals, rehabilitate the criminals. Leave the rest of them alone.
David, I’m going to 2nd what 9, Basara, said. At this point, legally speaking, the abuser is the state. The Texas Supreme Court has said so.
The families must be reunited. Now. I believe we have a state police agency to enforce the law. They need to do it. Now.
What a fubar this is! Just breathtaking ineptitude and arrogance on the part of CPS and one out of control judge.
I’ve said it from the beginning - if these people are breaking the law by abusing children, by all means go after them with the full force of the law. But here in America, we are innocent until proven guilty - so SHOW ME THE PROOF!
Poligamy, now that’s a different story. I do believe that is illegal. Correct me if I am wrong, but that’s not being prosecuted. Is it?
Disgusting. Fubar.
From David Benzion;
Is it me or is still hearing an absolute accusation against this group with *no* evidence, only suspicion, both boring and disturbing. *Who* raped *who*? *How* is this a rapist cultist?
FACT= An idea that is backed by evidence
OPINION= Idea not backed by evidence
That’s the main difference between the two.
Also, if the dealings of CPS is “dead on right” about their MO being getting the guilty to say they are guilty and then returning their children to them resulting in their children getting “getting beat to death”, why even bother supporting CPS? Why support an organization if their existence rewards abusers and punishes the innocent? Under CPS and abuser is quickly returned their children after admitting they are abusers whereas the innocent, who never admit any guilt, are not rewarded their children. If this is the norm, how is this Constitutional, how is it American, and how is it permitted. CPS is the ultimate child abuser in the country. Sending children to them will only place them in danger of abuse.
Does CPS define immediate as “some time this year” ?
CPS did not act “in good faith”. They were well aware of the source of the phone call and simply used that as an excuse to attack innocent families.
Anyone who thinks that call “came from a child in danger”, is drinking the CPS cool-aid.
CPS said, “We are disappointed..”,
Maybe they should look around and do a reality check.
What are they disappointed for?
Are they in a game of some sort?
Is it like, we are disappointed but there is always next time?.
The CPS in charge, think that we are all watching the New England Patriots loose the super bowl,
but we are watching a tragedy unfold that CPS caused because of their arrogance, ignorance, and bad judgment. They trusted and conducted their enormous operations on information obtained by a traitor. What else did they hope for than to be very disappointed?
If these people understand what is exactly that they have done, then they should start buy saying:
We are very sorry…
Sorry to admit that I tune into Nancy Grace occasionally just to see what kind moronic justification she puts forth in regards to state intervention of private citizens and how the state knows best how we should live our lives. She cites over and over how 41 of these children have had broken bones. That’s about 10% of all the children kidnapped by the state. My twin fell from her crib at age 6 months and broke her collar bone. At age 5 I fractured my wrist playing “horsey” with my 7 year old brother. Does that automatically equate to “child abuse?” So 2 of 4 of us kids had broken bones in childhood. That’s 50%. People like Nancy Grace and others who believe that the state has the right to judge an entire community based on little or no evidence need to step back and quit throwing stones at glass houses. Totally inappropriate, and I do not sanction CPS’s actions in this matter. It stinks.
From this website: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/01/senator-demands-further-information-from-agency/?show_comments=1
“With regard to Cockerell’s comments on broken bones, a briefing issued after his testimony states, ‘We do not have X-rays or complete medical information on many children, so it is too early to draw any conclusions based on this information…”
More slander and innuendo from CPS!
bigjolly - I know it ticks you off but #18 is a perfect example of why I feel compelled to bring in the NAMBLA reference on occasion. If someone is going to divine the right to polygamous marriage and sex with minor girls from the 1st Amendment then its not hard to make that leap.
It is clear that there are several people here that at best are apologists for the polygamists and at worst polygamists themselves. I think that is what muddies up the water and inhibits rational discussion at times.
I’m off to the Sunshine State for the weekend. Y’all try and not let CPS “bake the children to a crispy brown” while I’m gone.
Please don’t get me wrong. I am no apologist for polygamy. I detest how the courts manipulate the Constitution to allow any sort of deviant behavior - which includes CPS destroying families and harming children.
As for the “minor girls” is not a “leap” when it was legal in Texas up until 2005 to marry at 14 and is “legal” for girls as young as 16 (which are still “minor girls”).
NAMBLA and apologetics has nothing to do with it.
Wasn’t it none other than our very own sterling Governor, tRick Perry, who wanted to start innoculating young girls at the age of 12 against STD’s?
David B;
Some “inalienable rights” are defined in the Declaration of Independence. We know of three which are ‘among” others: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. “Inalienable rights” are rights which man cannot take away for they are not given by man but by God “their Creator”. All standards set in the Constitution are not “inalienable rights” but “civil rights”. The reason being is that you cannot change what God says; but you can change what man says. So to avoid legal abuse, the Founding Fathers deliberately left out “God” from the Constitution.
Constitutionally-speaking the people in the YTZ Compound are innocent until proven guilty. You do not care to follow that constitutional decree. According to *your* reasoning, you do not follow *their* “inalienable rights”. How is that securing their liberty? How is that allowing them to pursue happiness?
Regarding Elian Gonzalez. I do not recognize any “inalienable right” for him to live outside Cuba. None whatsoever. Elian did come here legally. It is perfectly legal for Cubans to come to our shores and ask sanctuary. He arrived, however, as a minor since his mother died on the voyage and the only remaining parent lived in Cuba. That was the “legal” question. Arriving here legally, he has “civil rights” under the Constitution. That’s where the three branches come in to decide what’s legally correct. If we the United Sates could have negotiated Elian’s farther coming and permanently residing here, that would settle well with me. In fact, I’d say that would have been best. Perhaps arrange his deportation from Cuba if we agreed to accept the importation of, let’s say, 10,000 of their famous cigars, than great! But Elian’s father remained in Cuba and had every right to reclaim his child.
The need to take action to protect a very small number of minors from sexual abuse is valid, but it doesn’t justify the kidnapping of hundreds of others or stealing newborns.
No only has the bumbling, stumbling, and dishonesty on the part of CPS at the NCLB compound made a REAL investigation more difficult, the psychological damage done to the kids will cost Texas taxpayers millions.
So, this blog which started out with “as much as I’d like to think that justice has prevailed, it hasn’t” is now evolved into what is “legal” and what is “justice”.
What the US did to Elian was neither justice (his mother died trying to ensure his freedom) nor legal (using the military violated the law). What CPS did in Texas (and just about everywhere else), is also neither justice nor legal.
CPS does not rely on fairness, but on whatever it takes to take control of the kids [thereby obtaining federal funding]. They saw big dollars for the attack on the FLDS society and, since the government did it in Waco and against Elian, “one more wouldn’t hurt”.
And CPS circumvents the law, obfuscates, impugns, slanders, and intimidates without concern for the families or children. And the lower courts give them the power to continue.
So, watch CPS in this case. They will continue to fight to destroy these families because they can and no one can stop them. They have already started murmuring about “Executive Privilege” over the laws.
beanie,
I’m not sure who you directed that to. You state
The US “did” nothing to Elian’s mother.
I agree that CPS does all of those things that you list, empowered by lower courts, rarely checked by higher ones.
And there may be some spark of truth in saying that CPS wanted more money but I’d limit that to a general observation that all gov’t agencies want more money.
To me, CPS acted more out of a belief that what the parents were teaching these children is wrong, much as Benzion argues above that another generation will be lost if we don’t stop those teachings.
I say that the teachings are legal and that only actions that break the law should be prosecuted. Preemptive law enforcement is scary. To me.
BigJolly, I understand that the US did nothing to Elian’s mother and I don’t want to digress any further into Cuban-American politics.
I also agree that CPS acted because they disagreed with the parents’ teachings. And you make a great point, “Preemptive law enforcement is scary” and I thought unconstitutional (i.e. 4th and 14th Amendments).
I’m not arguing for preemptive law enforcement… the state had a goodp-faith reason to intervene, and they owe it to the kids once they are in there to investigate if anyone has been sexually abused.
And while it is admittedly a trickier proposition, they also have to determine if it is reasonable to believe if any children are in immediate danger of being sexually abused.
Bottom line–it’s hard out here for a child-raping, patriarchal polygamist who just wants to be left alone… they’re just going to have to step up their game if they want to keep the good times a’rollin.
#29 - Hey I’m no fan of Guvnah Goodhair………but cervical cancer is a bit ‘more’ than an STD for my 2 cents - and I would NOT have my daughter forced to take the vaccination!
(thank Gawd my 2 are grown now!)
Benzion, they why not arrest the “child-raping, patriachal polygamist” and other adult male criminals and leave the families alone instead of causing irreparable harm to the kids?
Well…maybe. I’ve even said as much.
But I do wonder. I’ve asked this question here several times and thus far, it has been ignored. Perhaps you could answer it.
If CPS, in good faith, believed that a 16 year old, 8 months pregnant with a 10 month old child, was being held hostage, repeatedly raped and had received her last beating 6 days prior on Easter Sunday, why did they wait four days to intervene?
Given that the sheriff was on friendly terms with the residents of the ranch, given that the townspeople all say that they never witnessed any sort of violence, why not go out there that night?
I would have.
David, I’ve read enough from you to know that you want the right thing to be done for the FLDS kids. I do too.
My objection to the case has always been the illegal seizure of the kids from families whom have not committed any crimes.
I do not want a government agency breaking apart families because they think that the families might break the law. That’s punishing thought and if the government is allowed to get away with it, we’re toast. We’ll never be able to vocalize anything non-PC ever again without fear of some government agency watching us, ready to take away our children should we say the wrong thing.
Basara, I share your concerns…
“why did they wait four days to intervene?”
My guess is that they knew exactly where the complaint came from and didn’t believe it in the first place. For them it was a means to an end.
#41 beanie
BINGO!
It took 4 days because they already knew what they were going to do and needed that extra time to finalize the plans.
What an embarrassment for the State of Texas.
The Texas Department of Family Services has a new logo.
They may have left out God from the Constitution, but they did not leave out Jesus, the son of God. So I think they pretty well acknowledged there is a God, father of Jesus Christ.
Now if you haven’t figured out where Jesus is mentioned in the Constitution - and in the Declaration of Independence too - just look at the bottom where they signed it:
In the year of our Lord….L - capitalized, meaning Jesus Christ.
Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth.
In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
David Benizon:
You do realize that polygamy is widespread among Muslims? As for the FLDS imbroglio, you punish the offenders not the victims.
How do you know CPS is on the case? The large number of “rascals” parked out front, and the trail of doughnut crumbs!
It’s not widespread amongst Muslims here in the United States, unless they have diplomatic immunity.
BigJolly:
Back in the late 90’s ABC did a documentary on Texas CPS. It was a scathing expose of the corruption, abuse, and incompetence of the entire agency, top to bottom. The documentary was called “Voices of Veterans in the War on Child Abuse”. Subsequently, CPS was under review of the Texas Sunset Commission, and the majority (that I recall) of those providing testimony (those that weren’t employee’s of the agency or sundry court appointed lackeys who depended on the agency for income) was that CPS should be closed, and that a new “from the ground up” agency, a more responsible, accountable agency be created to assume that role that CPS had failed so miserably at. There may be copies of the documentary floating around out there, as it’s my recollection that I refered to facts and statistics presented in the documentary in subsequent hearings regarding Juvenile Justice in Texas. Every now and again I run across some of the testimony that was presented at the Sunset Commission on-line. Anyway, corruption, special interests, and the billion dallar family courts industry in Texas won out again, and instaed of following any of the recommendations, Texas Legislators left the old guard in place at CPS and lavised millions more tax dollars on new facilities and staff (those “rascal” scooters don’t come cheap).
Tragically, despite the millions spent to improve CPS, its still the same old, same old. Texas still ranks at the top as far as death or injury to a child while in custody of the “managing conservator” or under control of CPS and foster families.
#37;
Good question. The answer is that there is no child rapist; but, yet, they ARE there, somehow.
Big45Iron:
I didn’t try to establish polygamy’s legality, only it’s acceptance in other religions. FLDS polygamy, in the overall population can hardly be considered “widespread”
Clip from slate.com
“For one thing, they may be almost as numerous as the fundamentalist Mormons who make all the headlines (and score big ratings for HBO). Debra Mubashshir Majeed, a religious studies professor at Beloit College who is researching a book on American Muslim polygamy, estimates that less than 1 percent of American Muslims indulge in the practice—and these practitioners are most often African-American Muslims or recent immigrants from West Africa. That percentage may seem infinitesimal, given that the most recent estimate of the American Muslim population puts their numbers at 2.35 million, but it does mean there are perhaps as many as 20,000 American Muslim polygamists. In comparison, the current best guess about the number of fundamentalist Mormons involved in polygamy in the United States, Mexico, and Canada is only 37,500, according to Brooke Adams, who covers the polygamy beat at the Salt Lake Tribune. (Yes, polygamy has its own beat—in Utah, at least.) And while Muslim polygamists are quiet now, their political awareness may grow over time; after all, fundamentalist Mormon polygamists lived for decades in disparate and secretive communities, only recently emerging to claim their place at the civic table. “
Big45Iron #44;
I agree. What I was specifically referring to was the rights are recognized in the Constitution are not “inalienable” rights but “civil” rights.
A very good point nonetheless.
What is important here is to remember that the Constitution enumerates rights of the people, and LIMITS the powers of the federal govt. - in theory.
Those powers not enumerated in the Constitution are supposed to be left to the states. That is why the federal govt should have so little say in criminal law, yet they do. Virtually all this garbage is squeezed in under the general welfare clause. Boy, was that wording a big mistake. They didn’t foresee what would happen with that phraseology.
Wonder where CPS was while all the abuse was going on at the state juvenile correctional facility in Giddings?
#53 b45
We don’t wanna start having state agencies start finghting amongst each other do we?
It’s still going to be a can of worms. Certainly where there is a monogamous couple, roughly the same age raising their children at the ranch, the children should be returned. At least the one couple had a family photo, some evidence that those were their children. But, where there is polygamy involved and several mothers, it seems more difficult. They don’t have birth certificates or hospital certificates complete with footprints and the names of the parents. Should CPS just turn the kids over to anyone who claims them? I’m not sure that some of these children actually know who their mother is. If they take the so-called parents word, and something happens, or the child should actually be in custody of a parent who has left, is CPS opening their agency up to a lawsuit? The court said they did not have proof of an emergency custodial situation - did not say how to get them back to the parents. Seems like they will need DNA tests in order to decide who the children belong to.
klayman
Getting DNA tests done was one of the reasons CPS gave to take and keep these children. That was about 8 weeks ago. I personally do not like the idea of the government taking and keeping children for two months until they can work things out. That is a horrifically bad expansion of power from keeping someone for, what is it, 48 hours?
They found those children somewhere - all they have to do is return them to where they came from. I’ll bet the people at the ranch can figure out who belongs to who. What business of the state is it anyway whose kids are whose? Get the criminals rounded up and out of there and leave the rest of them alone. I already hear civil rights cases being dropped in the mail slots at federal courthouses all across the land (at least Texas).
A couple of before and after pictures of the kids
http://heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/
I’m still waiting for Bigj and Squawk to jump all over Benzion for calling them a cult like I did yesterday.
Polygamy is illegal in this country. It is illegal for cultural reasons. We get it from the Bible, wherein Paul counsels that a leader in the Church must be “the husband of one wife.”
I do not know when polygamy stopped in Israel. Jacob (Israel) fathered the 12 tribes through 4 women - two wives and the servant of each. Joseph was given 2 wives by the Pharaoh at the time. King David had several, King Solomon had way too many. There is nothing in Scripture that outlaws polygamy. As for me, I would never consider it. My wife would kill me.
Good heavens, why would a man want more than one wife, and how could he afford it (okay, Solomon had the money)? There is actually nothing in the Bible that commands a marriage ceremony either.
Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
The only other place in the Bible that I can really relate to as far as what to do with a marriage ceremony is this:
John
Chapter 2
1 On the third day there was a wedding 2 in Cana 3 in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
2
Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding.
3
When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
4 (And) Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.”
5
His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”
6
Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons.
7
Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim.
8
Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” 6 So they took it.
9
And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom
10
and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
11
Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs 7 in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.
Pretty good for a first miracle, but it sounds like He got a little smart mouthed with His mom, and decided He better do something to correct it!
I just thought of the way the conversation really might have gone:
Mary to Jesus, “They have no wine.”
Jesus to Mary, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.”
Mary gives Jesus “the look”.
Jesus thinks to Himself, “It’s going to take a miracle to get me out of this one.”
His mother sees that her Son has realized the errors of his way and says to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”
At least the Supreme court got things right. Children need advocates and protection. I was really upset to learn a child has 4 times more chance of dieing while in CPS custody than not. I had no idea the agency was in such bad shape #48, thanks for the info. This is not acceptable to me. What can Texans do to improve advocates for children so that children will be safe?
Is anyone besides me getting tired of being ever vigilant about any department or agency in this country? Ya can’t take your eyes of them for a minute! It’s getting tiresome,watching, reading, writing letters.
Upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: “A republic, if you can keep it.”
Well here’s a surprise (see headline above). Judge Walther decided not to vacate her order after all, even thought she previously had announced her intent to do so. So, the kids don’t get to go home after all. What a shrike.
#1 -
I’m curious about the good lawyers they are paying for. Could you provide more deatils?
I know the FLDS has millions (despite the removal of the UEP trust from their control by the courts a few years ago), and that is evident in the high-power/price team currently defending Jeffs against the second set of child raoe charges (in a second state). But from what I have seen I thought the majority of the mothers are being represented by Texas RioGrande Legal Aid (provides free legal services to low-income and disadvantaged clients).
http://trla.wordpress.com/
They are also invovled in the lawsuits around the border fence.
I just read that the state judge is intervening. Hal would not like what I think about all this.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080531/D9109KBG0.html
Grits for Breakfast has some great points.
http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2008/05/next-steps-remaining-questions-in-great.html
So now, Judge Walther has decided that CPS is incompetent (which they are) so she alone is in a better position to dictate how to deal with the children. After all, she used to be a family law attorney, right? Why aren’t Flora Jessop and that sheriff who was porking her down in Eldorado in jail yet? Why does the head man-hater at CPS still have a job? As long as these shrews continue to fight over the ownership of the enslaved children, the worse off they will be, and everyone knows that - so so much for the “it’s for the children” argument.
Sorry for this, but the outrage continues. Where’s the criminal investigation into Flora Jessop and Rosita Swinton who admittedly talked for hours and hours to dream up this phony deal to start with that even the sheriff wouldn’t go along with. Where are the documents that DPS pickup up when Rosita Swinton was arrested? Where’s the DPS officer with an axe to grind to swore a warrant that he saw a 14 year old pregnant girl at the ranch. I do remember one quote I read that in spite of its overall behavior, CPS does know the difference between lying to the press and lying to the court, so the lies to the court were obviously lies of omission.
Now Judge Walther, after being bitch slapped in a polite manner and told to sit down and shut up by 2 superior levels of courts, she has decided she wants to be relevant again. There’s plenty of criminal activity to investigate out around that ranch all right, and also around San Angelo and around Austin. I do like her idea of photographing all the children - I’d really like to see what they look like after 2 months in Judge Walthers’ the sweat hold.
Meanwhile, the court costs and civil rights violations continue to pile up, and the FLDS will own half of Texas and never have to work again.
Outrageous.
You gotta admire the faith of people who still believe so strongly - even when their pedophile “Prophet” describes himself “the most wicked man of this dispensation”.
http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=5347b58f-4364-43de-b348-3a7f05b761ee
“In fact, he admitted to incestuous relations with both a daughter and a sister when he was 20-years old.”
“As for William T. Jessop, the man Warren Jeffs said was the true prophet…..rose to power by betraying his mentor to Jeffs. When that mentor, the late Fred Jessop, died in exile in Colorado, they say William Jessop was given the pick of his wives.”
Rastus, I feel your pain. The good thing is all eyes are on this judge, and she has been smacked down already. Grits for Breakfast has a great take on this at his blog…… especially when it comes to the county out there.