[Editors' Note: Senator John Cornyn has asked for the opportunity to respond directly to LST's contributors and readers regarding their disappointment in his vote in favor of the revised "Paulson Plan"--an opportunity we are happy to provide, below.]
MY RESPONSE
By Senator John Cornyn
I know that many Lone Star Times readers are disillusioned and disappointed with the Senate’s vote last night, and I completely understand. Many of you are very familiar with my record and dedication to reducing spending, cutting waste and decreasing the size of government. Last night, we were faced with a terrible choice and many of you may believe we made the wrong decision, but you should understand the factors we considered before the vote.
The whole mortgage fiasco is especially infuriating because some of us saw it coming. In 2006, I joined with 19 of my colleagues demanding that we crack down on mortgage abuse, particularly by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. A bill doing exactly that, The Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act, was approved by the Senate Banking Committee. But it was killed on the Senate floor by Democrats who favored pushing out mortgages to people with dubious prospects for paying them back. They claimed we were concocting a problem that didn’t exist. We were not, and that makes the resulting mess all the more disgusting.
Secondly, what we did last night was not about Wall Street. If that was the case, and it was merely about assisting those who had gambled and lost in the financial markets, I would have opposed this bill without question. But this wasn’t about them. It was about the jobs and savings of millions of ordinary Americans. I voted for the 65-year-old worker who suddenly has seen his retirement nest egg evaporating, and a lifetime of hard work thrown into jeopardy. I voted for the small business owner who is days away from failing to make his payroll because his line of credit has been frozen. I did it for the thousands of innocent employees who were soon to be facing layoffs due to excesses that were no fault of their own.
I believe that my colleagues and I have done a poor job explaining to the American people exactly what is included in the final plan, as well as the probable consequences of inaction. Some conservative leaders have begun filling the void. Newt Gingrich said the plan “is a temporary measure to stop a hemorrhaging of credit and the potential collapse of the American and world economy.” My highly respected Senate colleague, Dr. Tom Coburn, was eloquent in explaining the stakes involved here:
“Taxpayers deserve to know that there is no guarantee this plan will work, but there is a guarantee that we will face a financial catastrophe if we do nothing. If banks continue to fail and stop lending the average American could lose their job, be unable to secure a loan for a car, home or college education, and find their life savings and retirement in jeopardy. Our economy depends on having liquid assets available for credit and lending just as an automobile engine needs oil. If those liquid assets stop flowing, our economy will be seriously damaged and will require far more costly and lengthy repairs.
“This bill does not represent a new and sudden departure from free market principles as much as it represents an emergency response to congressional actions that have ignored free market principles, and our Constitution, for decades. If anyone in Washington should offer their resignation it should be the members of Congress who peddled the fantasy of free home ownership without risk.”
The proposal we approved is significantly improved over the blank check sought by the Treasury only ten days ago. We managed to excise many special interest provisions, such as the ACORN subsidy, that Democrats tried to slip in. If the plan works as expected, and the economy regains its footing, most or even all of the upfront costs involved will be recouped. Of the choices facing us, I believe this one will involve the least amount of overall cost to taxpayers, and give us the best chance of avoiding permanent damage to our system.
This exceptional government intervention is a bitter pill for those of us who believe that free market capitalism, with our civil liberties, are the foundation of American exceptionalism. I’m convinced it was necessary. I understand that many of my longtime supporters will disagree, but I hope they know that I took their arguments seriously, and made the best call I could. My goal now will be reforming the conditions that got us into this mess so we will not ever face this type of choice again.
Many people from across Texas and the country have left comments on my campaign blog and others of you have written entire blog postings on the matter. I appreciate so many taking the time and effort to share their thoughts via the web on such an important subject. I have read your comments and I understand your concerns.
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98 Responses to “Cornyn answers LST readers on bailout vote”Search
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Dear Senator Cornyn, as you panic at loosing the election this fall, please remember it’s not the bill so much as it is the pork, the pay-off’s, the tax incentives for so many ridiculous business. I find it interesting you could not get to a microphone to request a clean bill. Technically, as I understand it, you cannot write a spending bill. I take offense at Hollywood getting a tax bail out, when their movies are trash.Surely there was a legitimate spending item you could have added to make more sense. You have demonstrated little strength or leadership. You have lost my vote.
I haven’t heard of anyone resigning that had a hand in this mess. Hopefully investigations will result in prison time for some of the guilty.
I appreciate Senator Cornyn’s candor and honesty. I’m not sure I agree with all of it.
Eu tu, Brute?
BTW; Senator John Cornyn, I do regret the donation that I sent you this Summer, what a waste!
What I still don’t understand is this.
“In the third quarter of 2007, subprime ARMs only represented 6.8% of the mortgages outstanding in the US, yet they represented 43.0% of the foreclosures started. Subprime fixed mortgages represented 6.3% of outstanding loans and 12.0% of the foreclosures started in the same period.[4]”
That quote is from Wikipedia, so, as far as it’s accuracy goes, who knows, but, it does lead to the following question.
How can a total of 13.1 (6.8+6.3) percent of all of the mortgages in this country cause the financial system to self implode? As stated in the quote, it is not as if 100 percent of these mortgages are in default. In fact not even close.
It would seem to me that the problem lies not actually in the underlying mortgages, but, in how they were packaged and leveraged afterwards.
Thoughts?
Senator Cornyn, I’d like to thank you for posting a response here (and ostensibly at other blogs and outlets, I’m sure) regarding this issue. I am afraid that you encountered a rather hostile audience here. Many of us are understandably disgusted at the economic mismanagement exhibited by BOTH parties.
We tend to believe that a combination of the following created this problem:
1. Poor government regulation (Read: Community Reinvestment Act) requiring banks to help low-income, unqualified, and even illegal aliens achieve the “American Dream” of home ownership
2. Wall Street’s greed. Many companies were more than happy to set up interest-only and sub-prime variable rate loans, as well as making loans to less-than credit worthy individuals.
3. The government regulated behemoths known as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
4. The ability of lenders to originate and fund loans, and then turn around and sell them as “mortgage-backed securities”, overstating their value and understating their risk along the way
5. Entitlement mentality and lack of discipline on the part of many American families
Not to mention that Republicans and Democrats alike spend like drunken sailors with little regard to whether or not we, the American people, can afford it.
I certainly hope you take what you say seriously. It is high time for Republicans to stop “getting along” with Democrats. Democrats have rolled over Republicans for years, and Republicans don’t seem to forcibly oppose them when they’re wrong. It is time to change that. Look at many here. You’re bleeding votes. These people are ready to stay home on election day because they feel that they have nobody to vote for anymore.
It is official. There is no longer any conservative party in the United States of America.
Mr. Cornyn, you are a cad and a politician. And I use the word “politician” in the worst sense of the word. You should have voted against this much-improved Wall Street bailout, and let the chips fall where they may. It is time everyone, the Congress included, felt the results of their poor decisions.
I will NEVER vote GOP again until they prove they are on my side.
My disgust is only exceeded by the incompetence of the Congress as a whole, and the cowardice of the Texas contingent in the Senate in particular.
Firstly Sen. Cornyn, thank you for taking the time to respond. Now let’s dispense with the meaningless formalities.
As the father of 2 young kids that will be paying the price for the utter ineptitude displayed by you geniuses last night, let me say that your response is finely crafted crap. If you truly cared anything about the amount of my retirement fund (or my parents’ who are close to retirement) you would have stood firm by the principle that the government that governs best governs least. Thanks for your nanny-like concern over my family’s financial well-being but I’d really prefer you not pretend to speak for me. It’s offensive to say the least.
Here is an article that’s worth a read…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/opinion/02kristof.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin
Believe me, I don’t like this very much…but something has to be done. Would it have been good to have a completely clean bill? Sure, but the Dems saw an opportunity and took it. If the bill failed, it would be the Reps that would be shouldered with the blame in the public. Not rightly so, but that would have been the case. Good for the Reps for digging out the outragous ACORN allocation and other provisions. There’s some bad stuff in there, but it would have been worse otherwise.
Thank you, Senator Cornyn, for taking the time to address LST readers in the middle of what must be an unbelievably arduous task.
I forgot to say one more thing:
Noriega for Congress.
Manuel Noriega would be better than our current group. At least he declares his communist intentions, and makes his money dealing drugs, rather than stealing from the American people.
Senator: I’ve read your explanation at least twice now, and I haven’t bought it either time. You’ve lost me, my vote, and my campaign contributions.
The Senate had more time to formulate a reasonable, common-sense plan than the House did, and proved to have less sense and less guts.
I’ve unsubscribed from your emails. I know now how little interest you have in what I have to say; I have none whatsoever in what you have to say.
#10 texpat
Did one of his foursome drop out?
He already worked his three days this week. He’s off till the next time he gets to waste the money that workers make, and the nonworkers are “entitled” to. Not to mention paying off his Wall Street buddies.
He certainly is not spending any time reading voter emails, faxes, or letters, or looking at the phone logs.
Disgusting pigs at the Washington trough. I’m so angry with our “representatives” (used in the broadest sense of the word), I can chew horseshoes and spit nails right now. Senator Cornyn, I hope you have a new job in mind, because you’re about to see a drop in the polls that makes the Marianas trench look like a pothole.
Why you voted for this pork is NOT clear. How is destroying the income of working people better than destroying the savings of working people?
This is interesting. I thought you were supposed to vote based on what your constituents want? Are you seriously going to tell me that more people called your office supporting it or at least enough that it was a toss up?
I like how you said you did the best you can then immediately followed it up with proof that you did nothing of the sort. The second sentence above proves my point. THIS bill should have had something in it to prevent this from ever happening again.
It does not because you all know you are going to ram it down our throats and because you KNOW it will pass you cant close the loop holes in the same bill.
You will wait until later in a bill no one is watching to ‘try” and prevent it from happening again and the people on wall street will continue to make money the same way.
Dear Senator Cornyn,
I’ve read your words carefully. I’ve analyzed them, and tried to put them into perspective with the financial situation as it stand. Our personal portfolio value has dropped several hundred thousand dollars since this started. I’ve tried to keep a detached personal frame of mind about what is good for my short term, and what is good for the nation in the long term.
Summing up the situation, I believe you are peeing on my leg and trying to tell me it’s raining.
Senator Cornyn: Thank you for your response. I am sick and tired of the politicians who I campaign for, throw me to the curb after they get re-elected back into office.
I will now request yard signs in support of Yvonne Adams Schick (LIB) and will let everyone know what you did.
Apparently you think us voters are too stupid to “understand” this bill and why you voted for it. Guess I have been stupid. I’ve worked hard to re-elect you in the past. This is the last time that you poke me in the eye with a sharp stick./spittles
Sincerely,
Loud-voiced, active, Registered voter for 26 years
Did Senator Cornyn, thank LST for giving him a chance to stop the bleed as his supporters leave him? He’s trying to do a stop gap measure, as blogs remove his advertising, and drop support. Did he write his whining, (you are not smart enough to listen to), note, or did one of his ” people’? Typical politics in an election season. I doubt we would have heard a word, if he were not running. After all, he is esteemed. Oh, and very busy. Oh, and needs to call the President to get his marching orders. ( Spit) right along with ST.
Dillweeds- you and your cohorts Senator. You SOB’s only think of youself and could give a damn about any of us. When the 700 billion dollar bil failed the House misablely because it was loaded with pork, why did you think loading the Senate bill with an additional 150 billion dollars was gonna sway any of us.
TAKE A GD STAND SENATOR. FOR ONCE, TAKE A STAND FOR SOMEONE OTHER THAN YOUR OWN SELFISH SELF.
Take your patronizing explanations and feed it to the other idiots on the hill.
I bet you morons sit around and wonder why your approval rate is at 11% and falling, huh?
Just signed up:
In addition Senators Cornyn and Hutchison, I am VERY glad you were NOT at the Alamo in 1836.
You may recall Senators that inside the front doors of the Hall of State it opens into a hall that holds six bronze statues of those who helped create the Republic of Texas. At one end, William B. Travis stands with his sword in hand at the very moment — legend tells us — he drew a line in the Alamo courtyard dirt and challenged defenders to stay. At the other end, James Walker Fannin, who was executed in the massacre at Goliad, is portrayed at the moment when he supposedly made his famous last three requests. Stephen F. Austin (the “Father of Texas”) stands in the hall, along with Sam Houston (the first president of the Republic), Mirabeau B. Lamar (known as the “Father of Public Education”) and Thomas Jefferson Rusk (one of the signers of the Texas Declaration of Independence).
Senators, neither of you is fit to be a cow pattie beneath the feet of these men.
I wonder if KBH really thinks we are going to forget about this when she tries to run for Gov?
#19 ST, I will take a look at her. She sounds pretty good compared to what we have now. Oh Big, KBH? Hopefully she’s toast. Both of them. You think the 06 election was bad, just wait.
You can put lipstick on a marxist bailout bill….
If Cornyn loses the election, it won’t be because of anything Noriega does. It will be because he just gave a skeptical conservative base a tangible reason not to vote for him.
#22 - You know, I’m beginning to think that what we need is a good old fashioned house cleaning in Washington.
Yes, the 2008 elections will be bad. And we’ll get stuck with a kooky marxist President for a while. But Obama cannot help but end in failure once the guy has some real power. So maybe we can start with a clean slate in 2010.
No more marxist Bush policies. No McRino leading our ticket. No sellout senators and representatives. Just a clean slate.
Senator - as per my earlier email to you today - you SOLD us OUT.
Now enjoy reaping your well deserved reward. (aka unemployment)
Oh, and let your not-so-esteemed-colleague Senator Hutchinson know that she too, will soon be enjoying the free time of unemployment.
Thank you Senator Cornyn for addressing the LST audience directly. The intrigue behind this misbegotten bill would undoubtedly interest Machiavelli.
Now that it’s regrettably done on the Senate side, please do all you can to push investigations into those responsible, and you surely know who they are. And for all our misery in this time, we need indictments, trials, and convictions to rival, nay exceed, the DC eagerness for blood in the Enron and Worldcom debacles. Videos of the arrests, please.
At this point, there is too much heat and not enough light in what has come out of Washington. I follow the news and read well more than the average person and I don’t know who to believe. My real problem with all this is that it has been advertised as a crisis, but all I see are a bunch of yahoos using it as an opportunity to sneak more crap through the legislative process after having utterly failed in their responsibilities. This is more due to the Dems being actively trying to ignore what was going on in hopes of getting more campaign donations. The Reps have their fair share in this as they didn’t seem too interested in fighting for what was/is right.
There has been and remains ample time to have an honest debate on what could be done and start with a clean slate. The fact that we’re stuck with an albatross of a bill says nothing kind about the people we’ve elected to office.
All that being said, with the disastrous PR job done by the Bush Admin and the Congressional leadership, at this point I see the well as having been poisoned. This is at its core a very complicated circumstance and good people can disagree on what this bill will and/or won’t do and whether it is better than doing nothing.
I have alternating thoughts about what should be done and just flat-out don’t know. Maybe I’m just resigned to whatever happens. Maybe I’m a little burned out; I don’t know. Maybe we’re (me included) taking some of all this too personally.
The vitriol of some of you guys is a little surprising since you are generally pretty clear-headed.
I do thank Sen Cornyn for at least addressing those who read and write here. There are not many who give a rat’s hindquarters what thinking people think and the fact that he at least made an effort tells me something good about him.
Senator Cornyn,
When I called your office I was assured by your staffer that you were going to vote NO. I was shocked that you rolled over and voted yes. Well fortunately Spending bills have to come from the House.
I cannot believe that you participated in this and thought so little of your constituents that you would even imply we don’t know what’s good for us. You passed a bill laden with pork for special interests. My dear sir, what the hell does a tax on children’s wooden arrows have to do with the fraud and corruption of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? You allowed the liberals to bully the mortgage companies in to providing loans to people that they knew couldn’t pay. The officers of this corporation “cooked the books” to increase the size of their bonuses. You should have been in the forefront demanding that the FDIC immediately start investigations on any member institution that is on the watch list. The Dept. of Justice should immediately start an investigation on the accounting practices of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac with the same diligence and gusto that the Enron investigating had and then start issuing the indictments.
You sir are no friend of the conservatives. You have had to be led around by the nose on every issue including the McCain-Kennedy Bill. I cannot believe you have done this to us.
Senator Cornyn, you have a problem. (Think ‘Apollo 13′ but without a ground crew.)
Did “something” need to be done? Most likely, yes. But doing something bad is not necessarily an improvement over the train wreck already coming. Would this be a bad time to remind you that Paulsen is on the record as stating that the problem was foreseen at least a year ago, if not two? If the problem is this large, then you didn’t do nearly enough to force action at a time which would have provided for reasoned debate, avoided midnight deals, and actually allowed normal legislative processes such as committee hearings and publicized hearings.
If the problem ran along until a week before the scheduled “vacation-and-go-campaign” time, what makes it so critical that it must be true that the planet will implode if we don’t get some form of legislative solution passed within the next few days? Wouldn’t the taxpayers/voters be better off with a well-reasoned plan?
Yeah, you’ll probably get re-elected, but only because you’re better than the most probable alternative. Congratulations. Then, you’ll have six years to prepare your resume` for a job in the private sector.
Perhaps you should ask your comrade, Kay-I’m-not-up-for-reelection Bailey I’ll-keep-your-thoughts-in-mind-Hutchison, for some recipes and techniques for baking cookies.
– Ken Kelley
(trying to remember why I voted for you…..)
John lets cut the garbage, you feel very confident that the conservative base will just eat this stuff and vote for you anyway, your assumption is they have no choice but to vote for you or the Democrat. This good cop / bad cop game you and your fellow elected reps of both parties play is an old game the family in Jersey used for many years. You have no respect for the good, honest, hard working people who put their faith in you and your fellow Republicans, you just take them for granted like a good lap dog. Just like the illegal immigration issue, just like the border agents, you scam those who support your party, you sir have no shame.
From Wikipedia
Species: Senatoris Lemonings: small rodents resembling weasels, usually found in or near the Arctic because it is always a cold day in heII before they show responsible behavior. Together with the pollsters and demorats, they make up the subfamily ArchenemyDemocracy (also known as Minutia), which forms part of the largest lunacy radiation by far, the superfamily Murderous, which also includes the rats, mice, hamsters, and gerbils (Barney Frankili).
They generally have long, forked tongues are very short on courage. They are herbivorous, feeding mostly on lies and bullsh–t, probably smoking grass, and waterpipes in particular, but also roots and cheers for the enemy. Like other rodents, their appetite for power and payoffs grows continuously, allowing them to exist where you would think nobody would vote for them and reelection would be otherwise possible.
Senatoris Lemoningss do not hibernate through the harsh northern winter. They remain active, finding money by burrowing into the taxpayers pockets, and clipping off any financial gains in advance. They are incestuous by nature, meeting frequently to mate and then telling citizens they go separate ways. But like all rodents they have a high reproductive rate and can breed rapidly in any season.
There is little to distinguish a Senatoris Lemonings from a toad. Most Senatoris Lemonings are members of the tribe Liebiggie (one of the three tribes that make up the subfamily - Democratie, Rhinoie, and RonPaulie).
The behaviour of Senatoris Lemonings is different from that of any other rodent with steady populations which disperse every other year in all directions for three months, seeking the food and shelter that their natural gullible voters will provide.
Senatoris Lemonings are one of the few vertebrates who chew through money so quickly that their state employment rates are chaotic, rather than following linear growth obtained by not spending more than you take in. It is unknown why Senatoris Lemonings think they should be reelected every six years.
While for many years it was believed that the population of Senatoris Lemonings predation cycles changed with the election cycles, there is now some evidence to suggest that the predations may be more closely related to changes in the economy.
[edit] Myths and misconceptions
Misconceptions about Senatoris Lemonings go back many centuries. In the It was once believed they mostly died of natural causes. But more advanced interpretations of Spanish records indicate the Inquistion was not about witchcraft and heresy , but more having to do with financial disclosure by public officials. The theory that Senatoris Lemonings fell out of the sky in Roswell, New Mexico in 1948 was refuted by the natural historian Ole Worm, who first published dissections of Senatoris Lemonings showing they had no heart or brains, but incredibly dense portions of fecal matter in every space of their body.
While many people believe that Senatoris Lemonings should commit mass suicide, it is doubtful this will occur. Driven by strong self serving urges, they will concentrate in one large group when the money to be spent becomes too great. Senatoris Lemonings can and do swim in whatever direction requires the least amount of work and courage. On occasion, and particularly in the case of the Connecticut Senatoris Lemonings, they will reach a cliff overlooking a bottomless pit, and pull back. They rest will urge the rest to press on leap off the edge, sometimes to the death of liberty and financial well being. Senatoris Lemonings Weakspinicus Republicanis are also often pushed over the edge as more and more Senatoris Lemonings arrive and behave like whores.
Due to their association with this odd behaviour, Senatoris Lemonings suicide is a frequently-used metaphor by the voters who went along unquestioning the
liberals’ opinions, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences. This is the theme of a new video game, where the player attempts to save the mindlessly marching Senatoris Lemonings from spending us to death
Whether he wrote the explanation or one of his people did, I got the exact same explanation, by email, BEFORE he even voted. So “taking the time” to “explain” to us took about 5 minutes of cutting and pasting.
He’s hoping that those of us who said “if you vote for this turkey I’m going to do my best to fire your *** in November” don’t really mean it. Personally, I’m happy to learn that there’s a third candidate out there, I was not looking forward to voting for Noriega.
And as for our other Senator, the one we keep hearing wants to run for Governor: she just renamed herself. Let’s just keep in mind that she’s now Kay Bailout Hutchinson and act accordingly.
Dear John,
Sorry I couldn’t get to you sooner. I just put my 5 year old boy and 3 year old daughter to bed. What are you going to tell them when they get older and your policies have caused them to pay for this? we are 10 trillion in debt and you want to spend more?!
I am one of those small business owners that you talk about. I just this week added $20,000 to my line of credit and had no problems. Who are these business owners your talking about? Can I speak to them? Put them up for public display or shut up.
Your JOB is to listen to the people. Your not listening. I am not one to waste my time on political ventures, but I can assure you that you and KBH will be purged from our senate. I have the time and resources (MONEY) to make that happen.
NOTE TO JOHN next time your in a position where others declare your fate,
YOU MIGHT WANNA LISTEN TO THEM!
Cornyn and Hutchinson are both such a terrible waste of our two senate seats. I am so sick and tired of the “we can’t do nothing” argument, as if we only have a choice between wholesale Marxism and sitting on our hands. I really don’t appreciate Cornyn presuming to tell us what’s in this bill when he obviously was not able to even skim through all 450+ pages before voting for the end of the American way of life.
I’m considering bringing a resolution of condemnation to Monday’s HREC meeting. Unfortunately, even there, we seem to have a majority of people who would oppose such a resolution based on the misguided notion that we have to kiss their backsides no matter what simply because they’re republicans.
BTW John, my blog name is Smacktle, but my real name is Paul Cox and I live in Conroe, TX.
Senator: Did I mention that people are angry?
Better think about that next time you vote for one of the worst bills, ever!
If I offend anyone with the comments (rant if you wish), I apologize. It is not my intent to do so.
I have been reading patiently everyone’s comments about Sen. Cornyn and his vote. What I find is incredible! It appears that the poster’s here are defining the Senator by this one issue. They are those saying he is not a conservative or conservative enough and that he has betrayed us time and time again. As a result they will not vote for him or will vote for his opponent.
I was wondering are they right? Are the charges leveled against him true? I have searched to see if this is true. I have found that there are more issues than this current issue that defines Sen. Cornyn. His record, in total, shows that he is solidly a conservative republican. He has supported the State and National platform. Is he in 100% agreement? No, but I would be hard press to find anyone who is. Yet his voting record has shown that he is fiscally conservative, that he is strong on defense, tough on immigration and so forth. He has been consistent in being a conservative Republican. Yet on this one issue people are willing to kick him to the curb.
The problem is not with Sen. Cornyn and the Republican Party. It is the finicky people who claim to be conservative republicans. I have found that there is a subset of conservatives who blow up when a vote does not go exactly the way they want it to go. They stop and stamp and declare that they are voting for the opposition or that they are leaving the party or that they are not voting at all. Incredible! To trade a Person who has on many issues shown that he is a Republican and a conservative for someone who does not even come close is incredibly irresponsible. I realize you may be upset but look at the overall record of the man.
Thank you for your patience.
#38 Tektite
Just what we need another apologist like jimb.
I would also like to point out that DAN PATRICK supports Cornyn’s bailout plan. DAN PATRICK What say you? What say you Dan Patrick supporters?
Tektite, yes. I am judging him on this one issue. You can be the greatest person in the world for 3 years, 365 days a year. You can give half your earning to charity, work every weekend building habitat houses, help little ladies across the street. But if on just one leap day every four years you rob a bank…GUESS WHAT? You’re a frigging BANK ROBBER.
The point is they are supposed to do the right thing EVERY TIME. Not most of the time. This debt and waste in this bill is FUNDAMENTAL to what is wrong in our society. His FUNDAMENTALLY VIOLATED HIS DUTY to oppose this, which did NOT FIX THE PROBLEM, but instead added to the problem. It is putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound, instead of performing the painful surgery required to save the patient from further harm.
I will not apologize for cyber shouting. We need to shout and scream and jump up and down and pound on the door and throw a rock through their window to get their attention. After all, they are attempting to STEAL the money out of our wallets.
If Dan Patrick supports this bail out as it is written, he is wrong. If he supports action, with no pork, having the securities purchased at market value, with insurance. If he agrees there needs to be a guarantee that if and when, the American people see some profit, it goes to us……… not to government spending, Then he is right.
Smack, what’s the deal? You don’t think people on LST have ever criticized Dan before when they generally supported him? From 3,600 miles away, I’m a bit out of the loop. What did Dan say specifically about this?
AW, don’t forget about prosecution of the looters. I’d also like to see the house, senate, and the lending institutions ALL sign personal guarantees on this. Just a billion apiece. Nothing drastic.
LOL, because I didn’t absolutely MELT DOWN over this, I’m an apologist. I love it.
I very clearly stated that Cornyn was wrong to vote the way he did. Is this a deal-breaker for me? I haven’t decided. There’s a lot more wrong with our government than this one bill. Our government helped in many ways to CREATE this mess we’re in.
I encourage everyone to get a good nite’s rest, have an adult beverage of your choice, and not go with knee-jerk reactions.
These politicians are faced with a choice, like it or not, much like ours in November: The lesser of 2 evils.
Democrat or Republican, if they vote for the bill, they piss off a lot of their constituents and saddle future generations with debt for this generations’ foolishness and greed. I have little or no confidence that this bad paper that they’re proposing buying will ever pay off - this money will come out of the taxpayer’s pocket, ultimately. And they should be VERY mindful of that.
However, if they vote AGAINST the bill, let’s say it ultimately doesn’t pass, then they STILL piss off a lot of their constituents and risk, at worst, a worldwide period of economic collapse.
It’s pretty much a no-win scenario. Cornyn has a lot of spine to come to this blog which is populated with a lot of commenters whose idea of Conservative politics is, frankly, unworkable. Unless you can set Wino up as emperor like he wants and just oppress the opposition.
HAL?
#38 tektite
I agree (see #28).
Go ahead and call me a lapdog or sheep. I don’t care. Politics is always a very messy process, worse than sausage-making. You will never find someone with whom you will agree all the time. I don’t even agree with myself that often.
Heh…Here is a typical politician response:
Yeah, we screwed up, but if you re-elect me, I’ll make sure things get changed in congress. Just re-elect me.
There will be no more taking days off without pay to serve as a County/State delegate. I’m not even going to call Dr. Wilkerson, head of Montgomery County Republicans, again, to explain to me why I need to re-elect Cornyn or KBH or support Rick Perry.
Afterall, when he was my Dr. many moons ago (and probably his most hated patient) and they had to freakin’ catch me to give me an immunization when I was a child……he will not talk me into it….this time….even bribery with a safety pop will not suffice this time.
Instead of dove/duck/deer hunting this year, I will be hunting RINOS. I hope that I don’t require a permit. I’m going to slay them all and will probably exceed my bag limit.
Libertarian party, you have a new member./except for Ron Paul or Bob Barr. According to my elected officials, I’m dumb. Maybe. I ain’t stupid.
Heh….#34 just wrote a Dear John letter.
He’s one of the nicest guys that I know. John Cornyn, you’ve just been flushed.
BigIron, Its okay to shout from time to time, I thought of doing it as well.
The government has a duty to fix this problem. It created the problem by encouraging these risky loan via Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae as well as HUD requirements. As a result the govt must do something before it gets worse. I can tell you first hand that there is a definite credit squeeze already underway and has been one since 2007 but it has gotten worse. If credit keeps getting tighter you can expect the economy come to a sudden halt. Think things are bad now, there will be large bank failures in the future. Then what. Are suggesting that another “great depression” would be a good thing! Let everything crash and then see what type of socialism rises up from the democrats. It will make FDR look like an amateur.
This is not some type of giveaway. No one is robing anyone. The money would be used to acquire the “toxic debt” which are real assets for 30 to 60 cents on the dollar. Secondly the assets acquired could be sold as is or for greater value. Is this the end all solution? No, but it is a first step. More needs to be done like punishing those who did wrong and caused these problems and preventing them from happening in the future but the immediate need is to provide a mechanism to provide liquidity for the banks.
In your analogy of a gunshot wound a band aid is an appropriate tool to use to stop the bleeding and prevent infection. That is what the “bailout bill” would do. Once you have performed first aid and stabilized the situation then you perform the painful surgery to fix the problem. If you choose not use the band aid, the patient then bleeds out and gets infected. Any further procedures will be more painful with more risks and can end up with a longer recovery time, loss of a limb or patient flat out dies. So what do you prefer…….
Consider the “bailout” First aid to stabilize the banking and financial industry which in turns allows society to continue to survive. Then surgery to remove the problems “those who caused the problems” and to fix the problem so that it does not reoccur again.
Sen. Cornyn did his job and performed first aid which in turn helps the people of Texas. Now he needs to work to ensure it does not happen again like supporting legislation. like he did before, to reform the lending industry. You may not like it and it may be distasteful but when given a bad situation you must do what is in the best interest of the people for them to survive.
ST: Good luck with that Libertarian thing. They’re going to serve up Ron Paul’s and Bob Barr’s for a long time to come.
Tektite and Wagonburner,
I agree with you both in general but disagree vehemently in this specific instance. I hope Phil_M doesn’t mind but I’m going to repost a comment he left earlier below. Know first and foremost that I am not a person that is easily given to emotional outbursts. That said, if you can read what Phil_M said earlier and not fear for future generations of Americans as a result of this bailout bill then we will simply have to agree to disagree. Here is what Phil_M said:
Make no mistake about it - this bailout bill is to the current crisis what the infamous Smoot-Hawley tariff was to the Great Depression. The similarities are actually pretty chilling:
1. The Smoot-Hawley tariff began as a government overreaction to events on Wall Street, and had the effect of causing wild and harmful fluctuations in the Dow Jones as nervous traders watched it advance through Congress. The 2008 bailout bill has done the exact same thing.
2. The original Smoot-Hawley bill quickly turned from a simple, albeit misguided, tariff revision into a monstrosity covering tens of thousands of tariff categories. The 2008 bailout bill went through the exact same process and is now several hundred pages long.
3. Sponsors of Smoot-Hawley tariff got the rest of Congress to go along with them by loading up the bill with protectionist pork for crony industries in their home districts. The 2008 bailout sponsors have done the same thing to get their votes.
4. In 1930 Frank Taussig, chairman of the Harvard Economics Department, sent President Herbert Hoover a letter signed by 1,028 economists warning that the Smoot-Hawley tariff would bring economic disaster. Hoover dismissed it as the misgivings of a bunch of stuffy academics and signed the bill anyway. In 2008 a group of economists including several nobel laureates have prepared a similar letter opposing the bailout. They currently have 230 signatories and the number is growing by the day. Bush has already publicly dismissed the letter and called the economists a bunch of stuffy academics who are supposedly “out of touch” with the real world.
5. Smoot-Hawley was ram-rodded through Congress by its sponsors, Reed Smoot and Willis Hawley. They held stacked committee hearings that favored all their cronies who supported the bill, and they excluded virtually all testimony opposed to it. Bush, Pelosi and backers of the 2008 bailout are doing the exact same thing.
6. Smoot-Hawley directly instigated a nationwide banking and monetary crisis by killing off U.S. trade with the world. The bailout bill will instigate a nationwide banking and monetary crisis by killing off the value of the U.S. dollar in the world.
7. Smoot-Hawley’s supporters claimed it was necessary to prevent an emerging recession from getting any worse. Instead, it caused the worst depression in history. The bailout bill’s supporters claim it is necessary to prevent an emerging recession from getting worse. Take a guess what it will really do…
No Senator Cornyn did not do his job. He did not protect us from pork. I understand the need for a bail out, but I expect, if you cannot stop the pork, scream bloody murder about it and name names. Pork just doesn’t materialize on it’s own. Who benefits and why? No more excuses for a Congress where pork is more important than the will and needs of the American people. Do you realize, this added pork spending, put in jeopardy the most important legislation of our lifetime? I didn’t realize bicycle riding to work tax benefits, wooden arrow tax benefits, and rum tax benefits, were as important as this financial bail out. No excuses. It’s business as usual in Washington. There are those in Washington, who put us in danger by adding lobbyists wishes, campaign contribution aid, or whatever moves them at the time.
Tektite, et. al. - Some of the LST crowd have been questioning Cornyn’s conservative credentials, wrongly IMO, for a long time. It is votes like this that make my argument harder to put forth. I’m ticked and I’ve been one of his strongest supporters here. Sure this is just one issue but its a pretty dang big one. I think Senator Cornyn failed the conservative test on this one. I’m not sure how I’ll be voting. Too much emotion to make a decision right now. But the fact that I, one of his most ardent supporters, am even considering skipping the box should tell him the natives (with apologies to Wagonburner
) are restless.
Problem is, I consider the bailout a catalyst which will cause a much bigger problem than it solves. I can live with tight credit markets for a few years. So can the rest of America. And once this bailout bill beast is unleashed there will be no surgery to remove the cause of the problem. The cause of the problem will go on its merry way while much of the middle class that had nothing to do with the problem lays on the table flat lining.
#50 Jimb: Thanks shuuuug. I hope that they serve them up medium rare.
I hate overdone meat. Bleck.
As to Cornyn’s coming in to this blog. On another post, here, a blog owner posted that blogs were removing Cornyn support from their front pages. He posted links to information about this. As Susannah posted, she got the same letter before the vote. This was a political stop gap measure, and we are not special.
And folks, no one knows if this bail out will even work. Comforting.
What say you Dan Patrick/ Cornyn/ bailout supporters? Silence is golden I hear.
iF YOU DON’T BELIVE ME, THEN LISTEN TO HIS SHOW!
#57 AW,
Not only do I think the bill won’t work, I think it will make the problem much worse than it would have been had we simply let this play out on its own.
Thats right Smacktle, I am an apologist. Especially when it comes to correcting the misconception (lie) that Cornyn is not a conservative republican when his record clearly shows it. Too many people have gotten in the habit of when someone does not vote the way they decree then they scream RINO.
I have heard so many times from people who whine and scream when they do not get their way that they are leaving the party or will not vote, I ask them what have you done to change the situation? Have to participated in shaping the party? The answer is no! Far as I am concerned they can leave. When they are ready to act like an adult they can come back.
Dennisontheright, they probably already read the bill. They knew what the “bailout” was and the piece of legislation that it was tacked on to had been around for quite awhile. The bailout portion was roughly the same size as the previous on (100 pages). I say you are dead wrong about our two senators but I encourage you to submit your resolution to the HRCP executive committee meeting. You can count on me opposing it though!
I support John Cornyn. A man who’s record screams Republican and Conservative.
I don’t know what to believe about this issue. My gut tells me that doing nothing is the way to go. I’m positive that the current bill is suboptimal. The question then becomes: Is this bill is the best that can be done if one does not believe that doing nothing is preferable, given the political support available? By this I mean how likely would it be that a bill more to my liking would receive enough support/not receive enough opposition to pass?
That’s the question I’m struggling with.
Cornyn - you sold out! I was going to vote for you, one conservative for another, but now your opposition is looking better.
#52 AW: Yeah. I had to apologize to my 14 year old twins tonight for the elected officials that I voted for the bill that passed. Someday I’ll hafta explain it to my grandbaby. But hey….the elected officials that we fought to keep elected knows what’s best for us, eh? Just re-elect them. They’ll do the job….right…this….time…
I won’t even mention how many times that Bigjolly has been the “water carrier” for Cornyn for years./ooops
Yeah, I’m peeved. Cornyn did not listen to his constituents. Again…..
And leave we will. Adults have long memories Tektite. And we know how to differentiate simple disagreements from what will likely become the biggest problem of this generation. You’ve basically gone tonight from civil disagreement with us to calling us children. Great job selling your party. Let us know how it works out for you.
Umm, I hate to sound snarly, but you have no idea of what we do, so I find your comment very insulting.
Regardless of how much I disagree with Cornyn on this vote I do think that the tone of some of the comments here are over the line of decency. Such demeanor is at best ineffective and at worst counter-productive. Forcefully, but politely state your case. If your concerns remain unheeded express your anger at the polls.
AB,
I read phil_m’s post and it is wrong. Not in its assessment of the context of the great depression but as to it applicability in this situation. The “bailout” has nothing to do about protectionism or trade or tariffs It will not erode the value of the dollar. The value of the dollar has actually risen and will continue to rise because of the increase in liquidity of currency between banks and to consumers. The smoot Harley bill that is touted killed trade with other countries which caused the depression to be even worse. The stock market had already collapsed.
The credit market will not only be tight but virtually non-existent. Its effect will go way beyond your ability to get credit but will ripple through our economy like and giant wave that oscillates back and forth. Perhaps you can survive, but what about everyone else?
Also, you may want to experience a depression like your parents or grandparent did but that is definitely not an item on my “Bucket List”!
With all due respect to Smacktle, small business need lines of credit to function and it has become harder to get said lines of credit. I know of a few companies who are now struggling because they can not get the line of credit or loans to run several projects. The amount of credit they have been able to get has been decreased despite the fact they have been timely on payments, paid off loans on time and even early. Thus limits them on the size of projects they can handle which may force them to lay-off employees. That is the last thing that they want to do but it may become a reality.
Southerntragedy,
I never have said that I knew what “we” do. The whole statement was about conversations I have had. Never said it was about anyone here. I have not asked anyone here
So you have no reason to be insulted.
Uh oh. Thursday night Smackdown: Porky vs Phil the Professor
66 - I see more and more of this as we approach the election. We face some huge obstacles in the coming months and years. If the microcosm that is LST is any indicator, Conservatives are going to be too busy devouring each other in order to be effective, and will turn over the reins fully to the Left.
Bad things will come of this, and it will take a while to recover. There’s my doom and gloom headshaker-style prognostication.
Dude, “AB”
Fine, that is your choice. Secondly I am not trying to sell a party. I am pointing out that statements about Sen Cornyn not being a conservative is hogwash. Anyone who takes the time will see that. Anyone who says that they would vote for Noriega shows that perhaps they are not as conservative as they present themselves. Hopefully those statements are made out of disappointment only. I standby my comments and analysis.
I have remained civil. I have not called anyone here an apologist. I have also not called anyone here a child as well. In my first comments I even stated that
Perhaps I need to use this disclaimer from an old college newspaper:
“We do not mean to offend but……”
Also Dude, I will let you know how it works out
Smacktle, I did not hear Dan’s comments but if he in line with Cornyn then he has made a good decision.
#66 Hammie: I’m sorry that I appear snarly. but I am a single mom, raising 3 kids plus a grandbaby, and a horse-rescuer and finder of injured wildlife re-habber, not to mention keeping up on politics….AHEM….
Tektite: When I was forced to leave my humble abode on “Moonshine Hill” due to a forced FEMA bailout, but couldn’t afford anywheres but the humble abode that I lived at, (and we always flooded), I finally found a house that I could afford (after 2 years of looking) I always found houses on my own because I didn’t want to listen to realtors/lenders who told me I could afford something that I knew I couldn’t afford.
I was forced to call a realtor for a house that I was interested in, but was perfectly willing to hang up on her if she tried to push more housing above my means.
Come to find out, she understood my dilemma, I thanked God for hooking me up with her. She was patient, found a house for me in my budget after over 2 years.
Gee, iffiin’ Id of known that I woulda gotten a bail-out for my stupid mistakes, I probably would of gotten a bigger house./sarc off
Oh by the way Hamous, for the record, it is not porky but a Javelina.
Jimb, I believe you are correct but I believe that there is a good chance that there will be no recovery, because the conservatives who whine when they do not get their way will be to far gone on the fringes to matter or busy devouring their own.
Disclaimer
“We do not mean to offend but……”
#75 Tektite - Isn’t the mascot at TAMUK named Porky?
#68 Tektite: Sorry. I stand corrected.
Dial-up #74 post still stands.
Southern Tragedy,
IT is not a bailout for those who got a loan. While I believe that there are many who were duped into these loans, there were many who gambled and lost. The mortgages would be bought up by the Govt. essentially. They would be the owners of property that was foreclosed on and then they would sell it. Much like what the resolution trust corp did in the late 80’s and early 90’s.
I understand your plight and are to be commended for your efforts. I remember those buyouts as well as others that have occurred.
You probably should have gotten a larger home. Especially if the Horse gets a room of their own!!!!
Plus, Porky went better with Phil the Professor.
And for the record, I think they have the coolest mascot of any college in Texas.
Yes Hamous you are correct! I have always thought it a misnomer since a javelina is not related to a pig. As I have been told by biologist is they are closer to deer than pigs.
I only got one thing to say on this cause i weary of this “debate”.
Horatio Bruce was right.
I confess Hamous I am a grad of Texas A&I. I do not refer to it as TAMUK! I thought the name change was a travesty. A&I has a worldwide reputation that can stand on its own even up against A&M and UT. Especially the engineering Dept. They have been in the top three engineering schools in Texas even beating UT and A&M from time to time. Besides everyone knows A&I is better than A&M….. I before M!!!!!
#78 Tektite: Maybe I’m stupid, but I thought the bill was about bailing out Wall Street who bought “stupid bundled loans” which Congress passed a law that made home lenders “forced” to give every “unqualiified” person a home to live in “bill”.
I am not a gambling person when it comes to my children’s future. Please don’t tell them that they are “more better” off, than when I am dead.
I’m telling them that they better take care of mama because I’m leaving them in debt. Sad that it has really become true.
Yup, I liked A&I better too.
Tektite: Heh….I’ve got one twin who wants to go to A&M and one twin who wants to go to UT. Been that way for years. At least I will be always be on the winning side. No matter what.
Southerntragedy,
You are correct. The bundled loans are mortgages. The ones that are the risky ones you refer to are the ones being called Toxic loans. The bailout is not about buying up all the mortgages just the ones that are “toxic”.
So what will happen is that the Govt. will buy these “toxic loans” for .30 to 60 cents on the dollar. The govt. will now have assets that are valued more than what they paid for it. In addition the value could also go up. Not all these mortgages will be foreclosed on but many probably will be. They will be eventually sold.
Due to the hour, I will not go into detail about how it all works but in essence there will be three ways that the govt makes it money back. Sale of the property or mortgage, through profits from the institutions who sell these toxic loans, or be paid at the end of five years. It allows these institutions to get the “toxic loans” off their books and have liquidity to make loans. There will be no more toxic loans made in the future as well, no more selling short for the foreseable future and Fannit Mae and Freddie Mac will not be the driving force for risky loan schemes
Tektite
Thank God there are still some folks like you with the voice of reason. I have been too busy the last few days and have lacked the fortitutde to make the intelligent arguments you have made tonight. Thanks for the light of rationality and truth. Most commenters here seem content to make decisions based upon anger, fear and outrage.
Tektite
My grandmother graduated from Texas A&I in about 1927. She went on to her first job teaching “kinenos” on the Running W (if anyone here knows their history) most of whom had no shoes when they came to class. That first school was in the middle of the King Ranch and she drove there and back to Robstown everyday with a .45 revolver on the front seat of the Buick. She was a good shot.
Tektite, Texpat, et al, I apologize if I have not made myself clear. Perhaps this might apply to others. I DO NOT OBJECT to the bailout.
What I do object to is:
A. Not establishing clear, credit worthy standards in the loan process for people seeking future mortgages. This bill INSISTS that the same risky loans continue to be made.
B. All the extraneous pork attached to the bill which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the bailout.
Hope that clears up my position and makes me appear more reasonable to you. But really Tektite. Have you ever treated gunshot and frangmentation wounds?
A bandaid DOES NOT cut the mustard.
The Real Reason For The Bailout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uIeKXjnYWA
The Inevitable Collapse of the Dollar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n3g5lUgkWk
Those who are for the bailout (minus the pork), please explain something. My intent is to honestly understand where you’re coming from. Any way you look at it, it’s using taxpayer money to bail out financially irresponsible businesses and citizens. Is that not socialism? That way I see it, I can understand why the bailout MAY be needed. However, if we are to suffer hardships because we DO NOT pass a socialist bill, so be it. Why should I, a financially responsible citizen, be made to pay for those who haven’t been playing by the rules? The odds of the same thing happening again would be very low if we didn’t bail anyone out. Anyway, I’d just really like to understand how someone who claims to be conservative could support this in any form or fashion?
CP I am conservative, and have stated, let things happen on their own. However, we are being told small business will not be able to get credit. The banks, who do not trust each other, will not issue credit to each other, and money flow will dry up. If there is some kind of bail out, there are several thoughts on how to do it. I don’t believe this bill is the best way. I cannot imagine giving Paulsen a blank check for any kind of billions of dollars, to make decisions on who gets what. That’s power unleashed, and the human condition does not have a strong record of doing what is right, but doing what is right for friends. I am not an accountant, or CPA. I don’t want to ” own” bad paper that will take years to regain value. I do think there needs to be some kind of action, but am not wise enough to know the best action. I do know a bill that has tax relief for Hollywood, companies whose employees ride bikes to work, wooden arrow makers, cannot be the best bill.
I would too. Despite reading Cornyn’s form letter response several times I still don’t get it. I read a lot of justifications for a terrible idea that is founded in “anger, fear and outrage” but no real compelling reasons to saddle the American taxpayer with a further $800B+ debt that they didn’t incur. What I read was propaganda.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong about this bailout being a catalyst for a much larger problem than complete non-intervention would have been. Do I think it will be the second Great Depression? No. I am a realist and I am not given to emotional reactions to problems. But do I think that this has the potential to be a profoundly landscape changing event for our economy and political system? You bet I do.
If you faced a problem this important at work would you go off on holiday having only succeeded in packaging the bailout with a bunch of unrelated stuff? If so, I surely have no desire to work with you. Unfortunately taxpayers have no choice but to work with Congress. Actually it would be more accurate to say work for Congress. Last time I checked I didn’t have much choice but to pay for whatever they decide is best for me. At least in the private sector I have the option to go work somewhere else if I don’t like what they do with my money.
Yes, I am angry. I am angry because our country is 10 trillion dollars in debt and I am having to pay for it. Adding more to our debt for a bailout only delays the inevitable.
I’m partial to the Horned Frog.
“I have read your comments and I understand your concerns.”
Ummmm, how about you go back and read them AGAIN! Maybe read them a few more times–as many as it takes because I really don’t think you got the message.
Dear Sen. Cornyn, this vote on Wednesday night very much disappointed me. I thought you has a backbone and I was supporting you. I now have to re-evaluate my vote.
It is very hard to vote Republican these days. The GOP seems to be doing everything they can to destroy the USA. Between Bush destroying our reputation all over the world and Congress spending us into 11.3 Trillion Dollars in debt, I don’t think there is much hope for our future.
I will stand behind my principles (unlike what you did) and will no vote for the lessor of two evils. Looks like I will be voting 3rd party this year. Yvonne is looking pretty good right now.
You know it is funny when the Party that says Less government is better, we sure have elected the wrong people.
WHAT A LOAD OF BULL FROM CORNYN AND HUTCHINSON. NUMEROUS WALL STREET MAVENS AND ACADEMICS LIKE PETER SCHIFF AND PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS HAVE SAID THIS BAILOUT IS RIDICULOUS.
THE EXCUSE THAT CREDIT WILL BE TIGHTENED IF WE DON’T GIVE THE CON MEN ON WALL STREET A TRILLION DOLLARS IS PATHETIC. THERE NEEDS TO BE CREDIT TIGHTENING!!! THE GRANTING OF MORTGAGES TO ILLEGAL ALIENS, UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE AND OTHER PEOPLE WITH BAD CREDIT IS WHAT GOT US IN THIS MESS TO BEGIN WITH!
THE EXCUSE THAT HE DID IT FOR INVESTORS IS SILLY TOO. MOST PEOPLE HAVE A DIVERSIFIED PORTFOLIO AND THE AND THE FAILURE OF A FEW FINANCIAL COMPANIES WOULD HAVE A RELATIVELY MINOR NEGATIVE IMPACT ON MOST INVESTORS.
HE AND HUTICHINSON HAD A CHOICE BETWEEN MAIN STREET AND WALL STREET AND THEY CHOSE THE LATER. NEITHER OF THESE TRAITORS SHOULD GET A SINGLE VOTE EVER AGAIN.